283: Digital Metrics & 1Q16 Fundraising Metrics – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Meico Whitlock, digital communications consultant and associate director of communications at NASTAD; Rebecca Reyes, digital marketing consultant at Spring Media Strategies.

Also, Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

121: Get Engaged III & Dutiful Documentation – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Amy Sample Ward, membership director for NTEN and blogger at Stanford Social Innovation Review

Gene Takagi & Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on december fourteenth, twenty twelve our november nine thousand you’re still with us, i’m tracking glad you’re still here, and i hope that everyone was with me last week. Yes, i just i just hope you were with me last week because if you weren’t, you would have missed show number one hundred and twenty one, twenty was last week. You can now spend five straight days listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. I suggest you start on a weekend this way you have a little extra time for bathroom and food breaks. I would start maybe on a thursday and include the weekend i would include a weekend in your five straight days of listening to non-profit radio last week, which is the one you would finish with because that will be shown number one hundred twenty would wrap you up for five days was your database policy manual? Karen heart, philanthropic services specialist for the main community foundation, and nicole san miguel, database administrator for the naacp rat free library of baltimore city, walked you through data entry standards, indexing and search ability, naming conventions and other topics that belong in your database, policy and procedure manual. And it was also maria’s top ten maria semple, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor, revealed the top ten sites that she uses in her work true to form for our doi and of dirt cheap. Most of the sites are free, and her list is now posted on the linked in group and the show’s facebook page this week get engaged three tray amy sample ward is our social media scientist. She continues her siri’s on online engagement with gold setting. How do you know if your engagement strategies they’re successful? We’ll talk about identifying goal areas, assigning metrics and measuring your success. Amy is membership director for the non-profit technology network and ten and contributes to the sand, stanford social innovation review and dutiful documentation. Jean takagi and emily chan are legal contributors from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group explain the irs rules on what should be in all those acknowledgements that you send for two thousand twelve and had a value some of those gif ts between the guests on tony’s take to my block this week. Is cause marketing guidance from the new york attorney general? The new york a g wants to help you, and i distill their advice for your cause marketing campaigns. If you’re on twitter, you can follow the hashtag non-profit radio. My pleasure now to bring on amy sample ward she’s, a membership director attend ten, contributed to stanford social innovation review, co author of social by social, a handbook on using social technologies for social impact her blogger is amy sample, ward dot or ge and she’s at amy rs ward on twitter and unfortunately, she’s not in the studio today. Amy, how are you doing? I’m doing well, how are you? I’m very well you’re in portland, oregon, right eye and in portland this is where contends that main office is so i’m out here getting to me with staff in person for a little change of scenery and was actually onboarding a new staff person this week, which is always really fun. Okay, excellent. Our thoughts are with you in portland. A lot of talk about the shooting at the mall this week. Earlier this week. Yeah. Out at the crack of this small and now this morning. The shooting in connecticut, the elementary school so it’s, kind of, you know, end end times holiday season so far, very difficult, let’s talk about first an infographic that that i was sent i was offered people send me things too talk about on the show, and this one is interesting to me, and i thought you and i could talk about it. This is an infographic called very objectively titled how social media is destroying productivity. Andi, i sent it to you, of course, and you’ve had some time look at it, i will post a link to it on the facebook page on the linked in group. In the meantime, people confined this at learn stuff dot com um, you are ever learn stuff dot com all right? Well, so they’re clearly, you know, they’re concerned about productivity. Facebook has close to a billion users forty five. Forty five million short of a billion, but let’s call it a billion. People spend two times more time on facebook than they do exercising, you know, be a little provocative about i mean, they spend more time doing facebook than other things also, but they chose exercising wolber collectively each day in the u s people spend twelve billion hours on social networks. That’s interesting. A somebody who thinks about social networking a lot. Amy what? What do your do your thoughts about what you do? You have concerns about productivity? Well, i mean, for me, i think it’s i haven’t had a chance. Tio go look into their sources of where they got the data and what the data really means. You know, things like infographics are often so interesting to people and share a ble because they they could be interpreted in many different ways for me, i think it’s less, um, less a sign of of you now everyone and their mom wastes their time all day long and, you know, we’re we’re not doing any of our work, but more a sign of a distributed organization, a new era of the way people work. You know, people can quote unquote beyond the clock from anywhere so long as they have an internet connection and, you know, a lot the times and and looking at some of the staff in there, you know, that worker is interrupted every ten minutes by things like instant messages, right? Well i know that i’m quote unquote interrupted, you know, all the time, all day long, buy-in sametz itches, but that’s because i managed staff in other cities and instant messages, how we’re just saying, hey, i just tackled that one project or, hey, i saw that e mail come into both of us and i’ll take it or, you know, just kind of the way that you would work in person by just giving each other updates out loud. It’s now moving over two dozen messages, so it’s not necessarily cat videos, you know, and elearning youtube all day long, but it’s it’s, you know, it is technically an instant message, and and it is technically an interruption, but it gets the way you work now versus aah, total distraction and you know something? What i thought was interesting is that it’s list it was instead of being specific social websites to social networking, it categorizes things as time wasting websites and the number third number three, cnn dot com es o that right number twenty nine percent think i’m going to go to cnn because i want to just, like, chat with my friends, you know, like the way they kind of think about facebook being used that way, but for so many organizations, regardless of what your industry is staying on top of websites like cnn or other breaking news sources means your organization commend the the one that has the very first public statement about it. That student in connecticut this morning, as another elementary school, to be able to respond right away or, you know, whatever the kind of crisis our emergency communications may be, staying on top of, really, what we have as a objective world now, riel time, news and information means that organizations can get ahead of their competitors sabat and speak and be the one with the first announcement or be the ones that have the resources that the other news stations there now looking for etcetera, you know, again, it’s just a different way of working and not necessarily time wasting, you know, okay, andi also for our listeners, they’re they’re spending more time in the social networks because, well, i’d like to think in part because you and i talk about that, and we encourage people to use twitter and lengthen and facebook to the extent that it’s appropriate for them and, you know, all the things that we’ve talked about, everybody wasn’t everybody shouldn’t be jumping in, you know, you and i have been through that, and we’ll continue to teo explain it. No, yeah, i mean, i know organization, nonprofit organizations where a team, you know, a subset of the staff actually used private, you know, totally private facebook groups as the place where they are kind of doing teamviewer based product project management, you know, being able to say what’s going on every day and reporting to each other, etcetera, because it’s a tool that all of the people on that team are familiar with, they know how to use it, they like that email notifications in the back and forth. So instead of adopting a whole different project management tool that would be outside of any other tool there there regularly using, just use the facebook group and again, so that means they have facebook open all day, but they’re not necessarily just again, you know, posting cat videos to their friends facebook pages there, they’re using it for real time team communication. Okay, we’re gonna leave that there wanted to get your opinion on it. One thing i’ll close with is that the average college student spends three hours a day checking social sites, but what they don’t compare that is, too, the average number of hours a day that the the college students spend having sex buy-in i object that they left that out? I mean, i was a monk in college, but but there are lots of people spending a lot more than three hours a day at least having sex either with somebody or or alone, which for some people that’s a favorite weii just have a minute before a break. Amy sample ward, let’s see, we want to talk about our our engagement strategy, but really just have a minute or so we’re talking about goals. Do you have some congee? Just tease a little bit? How do you how do you start to set goals? And then you and i have a lot more time after the break. Sure, i mean first, if we’re going to a break, then i encourage everybody to go look upon their organization’s website and see what your mission statement and you actually have a theory of change, or if you don’t know what, that is just used the commercial break the good little theory of change opportunity, or pull up your organization’s active strategic plan, because that is really where you start when you’re going to create gold that apply to your social media, even though people would think they’re not, you know that high up and organizations chart of some sort. But really, you do start all the way your mission, or your strategic plan, or your theory of change. Okay, theory of change, or your strategic plan or your mission. You have homework for the break, and when we return, amy and i will keep talking about getting engaged online. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two one to seven to one eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. I’ve got to send live listener love before we continue with with amy, i’m going to send it to our foreign listeners first this time. Mexico. We can’t tell which city, but we’re in mexico. Welcome chung ching, china. Wuhan, china. Tokyo and fukuoka, japan. Seoul, korea. And curry, korea all live listener love going out tio are asian and mexican listeners, and we’ll get to the u s shortly. All right, amy, why is the right place to start with your strategic plan or your mission, or your your change theory? Well, in theory, not nothing that you are doing in your organization regardless of what department you’re in or what your job title is, nothing should should be extraneous from meeting your mission. The whole purpose of all of your staff, the reason that you have different departments, all of it should be to the end of meeting your mission, and when we that social media up as something that’s outside of that normal plan, then we’ve already set it up for first of all, other staff cannot really support it or, you know, to not have leadership for the board buy-in and that work because they don’t see it directly connected to the mission because it isn’t. But secondly, it also means that whoever it is that taft with that work isn’t able to set goals in the same kind of way, they don’t even see their own, you know, purpose for work as contributing to the organization in the same way. So not only do other people not buy-in and support it, but then the person that’s doing it themselves doesn’t see how they fit so outside of even what you do with the work, just setting up the contacts for that person and why they’re doing their job. You know, you either have an opportunity there for success or failure before you even start engaging. So so starting with your mission statement, you know, from there, you just work backwards look for the aspects of your mission that are focus on action and interaction, and then look for the parts that are social, the things that your community is able to contribute, too, and not just the aspects of your mission that, you know, require your staff policy maker or something. So so look for the opportunity where the community can be in and then require interaction, and then that’s where you actually set the gold specific to your social media or your community department now way learned a couple of weeks ago when you were on the last time that you have a real affinity for alligators. Actually, you’re a little scared of algiers, so we’re going to use save the alligators as our example eyes are hypothetical charity, okay, terrific, because because i know that’s something that you could buy into easily, of course, and also want listeners to know that this siri’s on getting engaged began october fifth if you want to catch the first part of it, and the second part was november sixteenth. So if we have our charities, objective is to save the alligators may be in the florida everglades, so not not worldwide, but just in florida in the everglades. There’s there’s terrific opportunity for outsiders to contribute to that in terms of awareness, maybe political advocacy, things like that, right? Okay, on dh and an organization, you know, or this organization that you and i have now founded called save the alligators provoc we probably have some sort of strategic plan or or we’re going to the whether we call it that or not, or something like a theory of change, which is more broad and says, this is how we see our mission coming, coming to fruition that says, you know, we see a few different ways that we’re going to save the alligators first is in the policy that support seven, and this is the kind of policy we’re going to work for it and the next is, you know, and this is where we’re going to create educational programs, so the public is no latto you’re scared of alligators or something, you know, so far down the line like that, you were goingto bucket out how we’re going to do this work, and from there we could say, oh, great, so there’s there’s a policy component of our of our mission? Well, in order for anyone to support a policy, they need to know about it. So a portion of the person’s job, the energy in our social media, they’re going to have a whole bucket, a goal of oppcoll and metrics and and work that’s focused on letting people know what that public policy proposal is understanding what it means getting. Involved probably recruited in their stories to help, you know the organizations public policy statement today if you can have community members saying, yes, we love our alligators, and this is, you know, how we’ve seen are so on the area destroyed and now hurting the alligators, i realized that all of this example shows how little i really know about alligators. Well, then, that’s a part of this person’s job and it’s no longer just yet tweet all the time about how we have a policy recommendation, but it’s so much more tangible because it helped change people’s minds about the policy recruit stories about this policy, etcetera, you know? So so you can translate directly from that mission all the way down to the buckets of actual content you’re posting every week. Okay? And how about some of the some of the advocacy, too? We want maybe people to write letters to editors and to bloggers we want to have people call or otherwise contact their state representatives things and so there’s a way we have our calls to action like we talked about last week, last month, exactly like last way said, you can’t just create a twitter account and start asking everybody to retweet you and take all of your calls action. But once you build up that community and you started building trust and engaging with people, then you can use the social tools to identify who those bloggers are that everybody listens to and reach out to them and say, great will you write the first the letter again showing that that you recognize them at the champion and influence there in the community? Will you write the first a letter and then other people will want to follow and participate, etcetera? Okay, okay, this is a good cause. And i appreciate that you want to be the co founder it’s a big step for you. That’s. A big step for you. All right. S o we’re so we clearly need to be, as you said, mission focused. Otherwise, there’s not going to be the support and the understanding of why were even engaged online. Why we even doing anything online before we moved to metrics? Anything more that you want to say about about creating the goals? No. I mean, i think, you know, a lot of people feel like well, you know we don’t have ah brand new strategic plan or we don’t have things laid out like this, but i really just i mean, we just showed with this very sophisticated organization that tony and i have just created called save the alligators, it really is that easy to move from a really high level, lofty mission statement, tangible work in in social engagements. So regardless of what your mission statement is or how it’s set up now, i really encourage all organizations to start from that place and don’t feel like, well, you are the organization that can you really can. And i just like that. If there’s ever than a challenge to why do we devote resource is it could be just a two person or three person shot, but why are we spending time on twitter and facebook? Because it’s a direct thes three threes direct correlations to our mission here, we’re trying to get join with advocacy. We’re trying to get awareness we’re trying to get public policy change, and this is how our social social engagement strategy supports each of those elements of our mission, right? Exactly, which is so much more empowering to that that person, but also to the whole organization, they can now translate for themselves how the person working in public policy can work with the person that’s doing the online engagement, and they could work together and not just, you know, separately in their own jobs, they could see how both of them need each other internally as well. Okay, let’s, move, teo metrics way want to start to measure these things? That’s that’s a substantial criticism of social networking that it’s not measurable. How do we know whether we’re succeeding, which we’ll get to, but but that’s what? You want to dispel all that? Right? Because it is measurable. Exactly. I mean, when you you know, a lot of organizations it’s really easy to track certain numbers because the different platform’s show them to you very prominently you goto a facebook page and now the really prominent number of how many people have liked that page well for you, almost every organization i’ve ever met that number isn’t the crucial number that you care about on your facebook page because if you have a thousand people that have become a fan of your page but none of them ever comment. Or share or even read what you post there, it might as well be xero people that like your page because no one would know. So making sure that that you go beyond just those really easy numbers toe look at, like, how many people are following you on twitter or whatever? And again, go back to those schools if we’re talking about state of the alligators, and we know that advocacy is a really important part and people actually taking that action way contract that let’s say, we want to see how many people yet wrote the letter, but how many people shared the letter of someone else, you know, way down that prominent blogger and asked them to write up a love letter to the very first letter, how many people commented on the letter that they wrote, so it doesn’t even have to be your facebook page, but but how many people are engaging with the advocacy appeals, whether you posted them or they’re the appeal you know, in your network, and that goes to all kinds of things, so not just you know how many people are liking or commenting on that letter, but how many? People have retweeted it how many people signed up on your website to stay in the loop on what’s going on on that advocacy appeal? So making sure that even though we’re thinking about this social engagement work as social media, quote unquote ah lot of these metrics don’t stay in that silo of facebook. If you’re doing a really great job on facebook, engaging people around an appeal, you also want to be just a the same time tracking how many people clicked to your website and signed up for the email to stay in the loop or how many people come from facebook to your website. And how long did they stay on the website? You know, looking at that that full circle from your your quote unquote home base, your website or your campaign page to social media and then teo material like emails or videos where it would be something there just consuming and back again. So how is that whole, you know, three part triangle connected and staying engaged throughout? Okay, how do we know what Numbers 22 start with if it’s a number of people who go overto comment on the on the letter. That was written over on the bloggers site let that was posted. How do we know what kinds of numbers to begin with? I mean, some some of the most basic that that all organizations can at least start tracking now to see if they know where they want to go next. What they’re tracking is so be tools specific as necessary. So was twitter, for example, you don’t just want to say how many people retweeted us this week. You want to say how many people retweeted our post that had a lincoln? Um, and how many p people retreated our posts that didn’t have a link, because as you you know, set yourself up to separate that content, you’re better able tto learn from the data, if you see after three weeks of tracking that you have fifty retweets every you know for posts that don’t have a link and you have to re tweets for your post that have a link. Well, that’s your community saying please stop posting links to your website. We just want to talk teo on twitter of or the invert you see, everyone wants to be sharing those links to your policy. Documents, but no one is retweeting you when you’re just sharing information, we’ll make sure that your frequently not always but frequently posting with the link so separate out the data as best you can, so that when you’re tracking it, you’re able tto learn from it and take action on it. And so that was a twitter example, but facebook another place where you can easily separate things out. Is it something that you posted because it had a photo or a video? Or was it something that was just a language or even just taxed? And how? How does your community respond to those things? So look at how many people viewed at term people commented how people shared it on dh then we can talk about more of the measuring and processes in a minute, but basically the best thing you could do is just to start tracking don’t say, well, we don’t have certain things in place yet or we haven’t finished creating this really great profile photos were not really using that page yet. You doesn’t matter just start tracking now because you’re not going to be able to make those informed decisions about what. To try next, or what kind of content to start creating until you’ve at least started tracking some things so you could say, gosh, no one interacts with our videos on facebook, let’s not invest in creating another video right now today, let’s try something else instead of feeling like you have to get all of that set up ahead of time. I mean, i just wanna let you know we’ll talk about measuring success next time we’ll have, we’ll have well haven’t get engaged part for because the metrics this metric section is really important. What about the the metrics that facebook gives you, like free, post like reach on a number of people who viewed and we have just like a minute and a half or so left are those are those of value? Yes, they really can be as far as measuring kinds of your post against each other so that you can say, you know, gosh, this one reached a whole lot more people than the one we posted yesterday. But there are so many variables to that built into facebook’s system, but also into you know, what day of the week was it and what? Time of the day wasn’t and did a lot of people like it right away, and so that then translated it, showing up in all of those people new season, then all of their friends interacting with it, you know? So there are so many variables in there that it’s hard to look at, it is just a static number, you know, a magical silver bullet of a data point, but it is helpful when you do sit down tto look between posts and say, gosh, what made this one reach so many more people? Well, then you can you don’t just say, well, i guess this post is a lot better, but it gives you the opportunity to say, this is the one that reached the most what was going on here that was different. Was it in a different time of day? What is it at, you know, a different day of the week, etcetera, okay? And you and use that information. But, you know, different organizations really focus in on different metrics, so some organizations rely on the talking about facebook metric and not because it’s better or worse than anything else, but they just picked it. And said, we’re just going to stick with it so that we’re sticking with one metric for now, others, they’re looking at reach, another aspect that impacts all of that facebook data. Is it you didn’t invest any money in promoting your post, we have to leave it there. We’re going to continue this subject next time amy is on show way will have her back. I wasn’t sure, but since she’s talking she’s talking about no, of course, we’ll have get engaged part for in january in january, amy alligator, that’s, right, save the alligators, you confined amy at her blawg, amy, sample, ward, dot or ge, and on twitter she’s at amy r s ward. Ah, that’s it at me, rs word. Amy, i hope you have productive meetings in portland. Thank you so much, all right, thank you. I hope you’ll be back in the studio in january. I certainly, well, excellent. Right now we’ll take a break, and when we come back, it’s, tony’s, take two, and then gene takagi and emily chan are legal contributors on dutiful documentation. Stay with me. They didn’t think that shooting getting, thinking, you’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you too? He’ll call us now at two one two seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Durney welcome back live listener love here in the u s lawyer, california port, ellen, new york, new york, new york, liquid new jersey and new bern, north carolina there’s more those air are so far live listener love to those listening here in the united states. My block this week is cause marketing guidance from the new york attorney general cause marketing is when you team up with a company so that you raise money and they either sell stuff or they enhance their reputation or their image because they’re affiliated with your charity on dh there’s a lot of blurriness around this because a lot of people don’t really know how much money actually goes to the charity or how it’s determined how much is going to go. So the new york attorney general had some guidance five recommendations nufer i’ll just mention two of them here explain exactly what’s being donated. A lot of times you’ll see advertisements will say net proceeds to the charity we’ll net net of what? How do they define proceeds? Also after the campaign? Tell us all how much was raised. People want to know what the impact was, did they? Did they? Make a difference for you. So those are two of the five recommendations from the new york attorney general there’s more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com the post is called cause marketing guidance from the new york attorney general, and i’m still asking for your help so many listeners. I’d be grateful if you’d rate and review the show in itunes rating is one to five stars you started our page on itunes, which you’ll find at non-profit radio dot net, or you could just search and then click view in itunes and itunes will open up and you’ll see a place for ratings and reviews. So it’s just a couple of clicks, i’d be grateful if you’d rate the show and write a short review and you do that night tunes and i’m very grateful for that. Thank you. And that is tony’s. Take two for friday, december fourteenth, the fifty first show of the year. Joining me now from san francisco. Jean takagi he’s, the principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group and he had it’s the popular non-profit law blogged dot com on twitter he is at gi tak g ta. K and also emily chan, who is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to the non-profit law block she’s the american bar association’s twenty twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer, which is now coming to an end. I don’t know what she’s going to do in twenty thirteen shut the rest on morals from from the previous year, but so far that today that title’s title remains and you can follow emily on twitter at emily chan, jean and emily welcome hi, tony. Happy holidays. Hello. Thank you, emily. What you gonna do in twenty thirteen? You know, i’m not think reminding thinking about that. I’ll have to say she was last. Year’s american bar association. Outstanding. Young non-profit lawyer it’s it’s. Not the same laurel resting it’s. No. Good. We’re here to talk about documentation. How to get the right documentation and acknowledgements to your donors. But first, how to know what date the gift should be dated. Your your acknowledgement certainly has to have the date of gift gene let’s. Start with you. If if if a gift is a sent by mail us mail. What? What date do we does? The charity use for the date of gift? Well, the charity is probably going to use the postmark days, but the actual date that the don’t i get to take the deduction is the day that the donor dropped that envelope with a check in the mail box. So if it gets postmark the next day or january first, which is the next day, if they do dropped it off in december, thirty person gets post by january second. Donors have to form the charity that dropped it off. Oh, my gosh. Okay, gene, can you speak a little louder? Great. Uh, gene, can you speak a little louder for us? Yeah, absolutely. Tony so great question donors goingto take the deduction on the date. They drop it in the mailbox. But make sure that the charity knows that otherwise the charity’s gonna use the postmark date on the envelope on those could be different. That’s true. It’s. Okay, all right. And this becomes important as we’re talking about december thirty first versus january first or second when the when the gift is actually well, wouldn’t be open to probably january first. But it’s actually received and opened in the office january second or third. This becomes important. For those who wait till the last minute. Jean what about if it’s not received us mail, but it’s received by fedex because the person waited till the last minute or some other overnight service. Another great quest? Tony, don’t send last minute charitable donations through fedex if you’re trying to get a deduction in two thousand twelve because then that the charitable contribution will be deemed given when the fedex arrived and was received by the charity’s avectra steve january second that’s going to count of the two thousand thirteen death. Better to drop it in the mail that i sent it fedex on december thirty. Okay, excellent, excellent advice. And, of course, if gift his hand delivered, if somebody comes to your office, then that would be the day they handed over to you that’s. Right. Ok. Credit card donation. Same way is the day that that credit card is process. So the day that you give it, uh, okay. Well, wait now. Credit card processing, the date you you do the form online might not be the date that it actually gets to the gets to the charity and process. So how does that work? Well, it will be the day that it’s processed by the credit card companies. So it will usually be instantaneous. Okay. And would you use the date on your statement then? As the as the right date of gift watch? The donor’s probably gonna deduct it on the date that they made that charge. So yes, if they’ve got a receipt for it on december thirty first. That’s, the date you it might be different from the bank statement dated the bank takes a delay in processing. Take your receipt if you make that charitable contribution. Okay. You mean the credit card credit card receipt? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Emily let’s. Turn to you. Now, we now we’ve figured out how to know what date to put for the for the gift date. Let’s. Start with gifts of of cash. How do we appropriately acknowledge those for our donors? So, you and tony, tony, you and jane have already talked about some of the ways that you do. This is the donor. For example, looking at your bank records were having some kind of receipt that maybe automatically prints out. But when we start looking at gifts over two hundred fifty dollars, it’s important that the substantiation you have is something that actually comes from the organization. Um, and this is an irs rules, so again, default attacks mary-jo have a receipt for everything that you’re going to deduct, but when you’re looking at something over two hundred and fifty dollars, you need to make sure that the organization gives you some kind of written substantiation if you plan to take that deduction. And the funny part of this rule is that generally speaking, the organization isn’t required. Give that to you so again, as the donor is good to be informed of what you need and same thing with an organization and know what the donor needs, that you have good donorsearch right on dso our listeners are mostly the charities, so so over two hundred fifty dollars, they’re required to send an acknowledgement. No, they’re not required to something unknown judgment, but the donor is required to have one so it’s good donorsearch to put something in place for the organisation, that you’re able to issue out those in a timely manner and also with the most efficiency from the organization’s perspective, and the substantiation should say, you know what? You would expect, like, the amount of the contribution, but as well as whether that dahna received anything in return for the contribution. And if they did, how much they received a return. Okay, and we’ll get to that shortly. But also the date of the gift, right? You have to tell them, is not sufficient to just date your letter, but you have to give the date of the gift correct and it’s important to give that substantiation in what they consider a contemporaneous manner, which means before the end of the year of when the donor would make that deduction basically. Okay. Okay. Before so it before the end of twenty. Thirteen. You mean when they would claim the deduction? Is that what you mean? Right? Right. Okay. But of course, you want to do it before then, because there probably going to be filing their taxes by april fifteenth or october at the latest. Okay. All right. So now i wanna make sure i didn’t confuse listener. So two hundred fifty dollars, what’s the what’s, the what’s. The rule around two hundred fifty dollars, for two hundred fifty dollars, or more. The donor’s required to have a written substantiation from the organization the caveat here that was generally speaking, an organization isn’t required to issue one on we’ll get you an exception like he said in the seconds, but this is really important for organizations. No, not just look at what they’re required to do, but what would be a best practice to do, and it is the best practice as far as your donor issue, those, uh, received for them so that what your donor isn’t going to come back and say, hey, i tried to take the deduction that you never gave me this acknowledgement, and now i’m upset will never don’t you again, right? And of course, the really best wayto be thankful for gift and to express that is tio acknowledge every gift, even if it’s only five dollars? Yes, we would say so, but i don’t know that especially have it’s the hyre amount it’s even more important, we would say, because of this extra requirement from the irs. Okay, let’s, go teo publicly traded stock, and we’re not going toe listeners. We’re not going to talk about, um, privately held stock in privately held companies because it becomes very difficult of value. And things like that. But emily for a publicly traded stock first let’s define that. What do we mean by publicly traded? So this would begin stock that’s being treated openly on the market right now. So you would be able to look at the stock market and figure out how much it’s trading for at any given day or time. All right. And how do we acknowledge that kind of a gift? So this would be assuming that the organization is going teo, liquidate this right away, meaning that they’re also going to sell it. You’re going to treat it just like another contribution again? That could be tax deductible. So the organization is going to want to know again. Asshole of the donor. How much? That doctor’s words on the day that it’s given to the date of the gift. And basically the way that you do that. If you look at what it’s being chased out the high in the low and you take the average okay, excellent. Some people there’s some confusion. Sometimes people think it’s the value that the stock closed at on the day of the transfer. But that’s not right, it’s that average that you just explained if i can jump in it’s important to realize, though, that that’s going to be the donor’s responsibility to figure out what the deduction amount is. And the charity is giving those numbers just a matter of convenience for the donor and the donor’s tax advisor. So should there be some little caveat in your letter that says we’re not providing tax advice in giving you the value or what? What? We estimate the value of your deduction to be, i think that’s great advice, tony, to just say that caesar for internal gift recognition purposes, and to please seek guidance from your tax or financial advisor regarding the deductibility of your gift. Okay, gene let’s, stay with you. We have just a minute before a break so let’s, you know what? Let’s, just take our break and we’ll make a clean cut and, well, gene and emily and i will continue talking about documentation for quid pro quo gifts. What happens when you get a little thing back or something big back? And how do you value those things? Stay with us. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Okay, let’s, gene let’s, talk a little about when someone gets something in exchange and let’s start small. Suppose you make a gift and you get back a mug or a pen or a t shirt. Kind of what generally, the rule is if the gift for the contribution or payment that is being made by the donor is more than seventy five dollars, and you’re getting something back in return of value, then the charity has got to give you some sort of written disclosure that indicates the value of the item is given in return. But if it’s a token, ida, um, then there may be no need to do that, so token item might be okay. And what is a token is actually kind of defined, um, by the amount it is, it could be a low cost item. Or it could be an item that has the organisation’s name on it on. And if it’s a low enough value than that that’s going to be okay. And so the dollar figures i’m goingto let emily provided it doesn’t come off the top of my head. But it’s the low. Cost article, i think, is nine seventy with the organisation’s name or logo and if it’s not with the organisation’s name or logo, if the mug is less than two percent the lesser of two percent of the donation or ninety seven dollars, then you don’t have to give that written disclosures statement that says the amount of the value of the item given back to the donor return. Okay, that’s, a that’s? A lot to unpack, but listeners could go back and play that play that part back-up emily does does jean have? The number is correct. Okay, okay, now, gene, that was if the if the donation is more than seventy five dollars, if the donation is less than seventy five dollars, then you don’t have the charity need not disclose what was given in return. Is that is that right? Yet although it’s going to be a good idea for the charity to do so anyway, because the donor can only deduct the amount of the payments that is actually a charitable contributions so other than for those token token items, then something for the charity to indicate. So even if he gave a fifty dollars, gift to charity. And you got twenty five dollars, back. That charity should indicate what that amount given back. Okay, so, so sort of similar to what we talked about before it’s. Just it’s. Good practice to just do it all the time. Uh, disclosed what was received all the time. Okay. Plus, i just got makes it easier for your for your gift processing people. Teo did not have different rules. Just do it all the same way each time. Yeah. And note that this comes up all the time when charity’s hold their holiday party events and copied the chicken dinner with the ticket. Um, so the chicken dinner given back is a benefit that probably is more than the token benefit or the low cost benefit. So that’s going to be something that the charity will want to get back into receipt? The whole ticket may not be deductible, but a portion, maybe. Okay. And what? What about the silent auction items that you have? You have advice around those two? Yeah. Now, that gets to be a very tricky area. Because when you received ah non-cash contribution from a donor, the charity not goingto value that so. If somebody gives you a expensive vase and they say, you know, this is our donation to you, the cherry has no responsibility and is not in the business of appraising that for the donor. The donor is gonna have to do that themselves begat the deduction. But the charity will give back a receipt stating that a description of the items given, however, the big exception is if now the charity goes ahead and take that vase and puts it into a silent auction. And somebody bids sport let’s say somebody bid five hundred dollars for that body, right? The charity has got a responsibility to let the donor or the person paying for the box know what portion is a donation. And what portion is really the value of that vase? Uh, that they’re actually making just a strict payment for quid pro quo. Because it’s part sale and part gift and only the gift portion is deductible. Okay. And how are we going, teo? Value that? Yeah. Really tricky it it depends upon the item. So you know, if it’s super expensive than the charity, may have to get an appraiser to do that, otherwise they might. Look into, you know, being if it’s a fairly modest item, you may just look on ebay or craigslist that used and try to figure it out, but you don’t have to use reasonable method based, but, you know, pop your resources and the valley of the gift. Okay, emily let’s, go teo volunteering if someone’s instead of instead of making cash gift or stock if they’re spending their time with the organization, what what does the charity have a responsibility to? Teo teo, disclose that or acknowledge it in a certain way. And what can the donor deduct? I’m not necessarily so. The thing about volunteer services that the individual volunteering not deduct. I got the value of that volunteer time. So let’s say it’s the equivalent to paying, you know, twenty dollars per hour for your bookkeeper or something like that. You’re you’re volunteering the service, an organization that not deductible. But what could be deductible are the expenses that are incurred that are related to the volunteer services. So what say the cost of gas to get to the non-profits a place of business in order to do the financial services for them? Okay, we really have to leave it there. We just have a brief moment. Emily there’s a couple of publications that are valuable for for charities to figure this stuff out. What? What are those? Please? So there’s, the irs publication seventeen. Seventy one that’s. A really easy to read pamphlet. There’s also an irs publication. Five twenty six, which is a more comprehensive guide on charitable contributions and anything that’s tricky, like art or vehicles. There are special irish publications for that as well. So i would look for that specifically. Okay. And you’ll find the pubs on iris dot. Gov. Yes, that’s correct. Okay, we have to leave it there. I want to thank. Jean takagi and emily chan are regular legal contributors from the non-profit exempt organizations. Law group. You confined them both at non-profit law blawg dot com happy holidays to both of you. Thanks very much. Thank you. My pleasure, aunt. Of course. Also, my thanks to amy sample ward next week. Robert egger, ceo of sea forward that’s the letter c. He and i are going to talk about how to get political candidates to add non-profit issues to their platforms and how to endorse the candidates. Who? Do and scott koegler will be with me, our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. You can hardly navigate the social way without smacking your head into tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re on facebook, youtube, twitter linked in four, square all those places and if i can urge you to go to itunes again, i’d be grateful if you would rate and review the show there wishing you good luck the way performers do around the world. 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