249: Walk To Work & Keep Current After Launch – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Beth Kanter, co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit” and “Measuring the Networked Nonprofit,” with Ritu Sharma, co-founder and executive director of Social Media for Nonprofits.

Also, Farra Trompeter, vice president at Big Duck and Kira Marchenese, senior director, digital strategy + platforms for the Environmental Defense Fund.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

150: 150th Show! Measuring The Networked Nonprofit & Goodbye Google Alerts? – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Beth Kanter, co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit” and “Measuring the Networked Nonprofit”

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now!”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 150_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20130712.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:03:01.383Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2013…07…150_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20130712.mp3.124963623.json
Path to text: transcripts/2013/07/150_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20130712.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s our one hundred fiftieth show, our loki sesquicentennial one hundred fiftieth anniversary today, july twelfth, friday, two thousand thirteen oh, i hope that you were with me last week, i’d be put into pericarditis if it came to my attention that you had missed dan’s donor retention ideas. Dan blakemore is assistant director of development for individual giving at international house. We talked at fund-raising day last month about howto hold onto your donors from phone to facebook and tablet aps. Scott koegler was back he’s, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news he had info on tablet, apse for event management and fund-raising this week, measuring the networked non-profit beth cantor, co author of the network non-profit and measuring the network non-profit talked to me at fund-raising day last month about wide engagement and measuring your multi-channel outcomes and goodbye google alerts maria semple are prospect research contributor, and the prospect finder has free alternatives in case google alerts disappear. In fact, some of our ideas may even be better than google alerts. Between the guests on tony’s, take two, thank you very much for listening on the one hundred fiftieth show. Very grateful for your support right now, we have the interview with beth cantor measuring the networked non-profit welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen, we’re at the marriott marquis hotel in midtown new york see, right in times square, the conference is being taken down around us, so there isn’t. You may hear a noise of chairs and tables, and we’re still here where will be the last remnants of the last shards of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen with me is as i said, beth cantor she’s, master trainer, blogger, speaker and author, co author of the network non-profit and measuring the network non-profit cancer welcome to the show. Oh, thanks so much for having me. It’s. A pleasure. Well, yes. You still have a lot of energy into the day. Oh, yes, i always have latto energies. Okay, um, what about the online networks on dh engagement on the online? How do we have accomplish riel? True engagement was a ringing phone to oh, breaking you make you’re ringing phones as well. How do how do we engage online? Well, let’s, take that ringing phone as an example. Well, if you’re really engaging, you’re listening and you’re answering the phone and you’re having a conversation. So instead of just like blasting out your message or constantly saying e-giving ann, ask you know, you’re listening to the conversations that are happening on social networks around your issue, and you’re finding ways, teo, talk to people and and mention your cause and then teo cultivate them to them, become supporters and to become so excited and enthusiastic about you that they go out and they quit their friends. We still have lingering thoughts, though, and lingering practices don’t we about about being maura one way channel way have a facebook page, we’ve got to keep it busy with our content. Wei have a twitter stream we gotta keep it busy with our content. Yeah versus the listening. Yes, yes, and it’s a trainer. You know, it’s really interesting to encourage people to kind of shift their habit. And when i found out this is out of a practitioner level, is that it’s a real change of mindset for like creating your content, scheduling your kant tent and having it go out there? Yes. You need to have that structure. But then this social peace is this more organic time where you’re listening and you’re actually asking questions and you’re responding. And so i actually tell practitioners, schedule those into different blocks actually go in and talk because people have a resistance to like, well, this engagement stuff it’s, like open ended, and i’m not the time for this, and it makes me dizzy. Let’s have a look. Just schedule these twenty minute blocks. Well, you’re just checking in. I mean, that’s the way i do it. I mean, i have planned content. It’s not, you know, occasionally will promote my block post, but i’m always sharing links from other people, you know, that’s another way. I’m constantly scanning through my list and seeing what my different networks they’re talking about and and asking questions. I’m initiating conversations, so i think of it like a in a way, a cocktail party that’s not too big and saying hi, tony, how are you? As opposed to hi, tony. Want to buy my book? You said you mentioned scanning your lists. How do you do you go? About that is i mean, i’m not speaking english, i guess, but on twitter you got on the show have george in jail, a target having to put you in, george, i didn’t think of it, you know, when i do i do that it’s a trainer to i throw a ball at people, do you? Yeah, not a lot of softball, noah squish balls, fisher. Okay, so okay, so i’m it’s just on twitter. You can actually grew similar people. You know, i have one that’s, like thought leaders in the nonprofit world that i listen to you i have ceos of foundations i have, you know, d d geeks because that’s another topic of interest, and so i can actually look at all of their tweets together instead of the whole list. So if i could be very intentional about well, okay, daddy, geek stuff is on my list today for content it’s by week’s theme for content. So i’m going to be scanning has seen what kind of resource is are the data geek sharing that i want to highlight? And maybe i’m writing a post about something about that so i might ask them, you know, i’ve just come across this really interesting article in the new york times that talks about the myths of big data. What do you think about it? And then in on dh then they’ll tell me, and then i might then use that to create a block post. So so there is, you know, so sometimes i create a lot of content based on his conversations, okay? And breaking that down for listeners to the non-profit buy-in non-profits mean, they’re different list might be support our owners, volunteers, maybe board members, similar types of organizations, yes, champions people who influencers talk about the similar similarly working, similarly placed organizations, why should we be listening to the quote, the competition? Well, that was the whole topic of my first book in that organizations you have a couple of thoughts about, yeah, they need to think, like networks and networks are comprised of people and organisations and when we collaborate, there’s more abundance. So, you know, so similar organizations that maybe content from, you know we should theoretically, if we’re all in the animal welfare business, no of sharing each other content helps us all reach that goal faster, you know, and i’ll just remind listeners bethe first book was the network to non-profit and her co author, alison fine has been on the show just within the past couple of months. What’s now, june, alison was on so you could look for alison. Fine. If you want to meet let’s, go up. Let’s say more about that. You know, the so the network non-profit is not on ly. Yeah, not only network to the listen, the groups that are so obvious, we need to be going deeper than what’s on the surface. Yeah. I mean it’s. Not just external groups to it’s also within the organ. Okay. I knew i was headed somewhere. Yeah. Thank you for taking my hand. Yeah. Yeah, well, i mean, what what typically happens, you know, is that they think of social media is the social media person in that do you do this social media stuff? We’ll get a social media volunteer. I’m really needs to be the whole organization with a slightly larger organizations. They get toby siloed in different departments and there’s one person doing it. So i was, like, recommend a hybrid model where there are people responsible for the digital across departments and those people are the ones that are talking to one another. So we get rid of the silos and it’s been scaling and within the whole organization. But that’s not gonna happen unless leadership is behind it, unless what? We have the ability of our executive director’s toe lead with a network mindset. Okay, what does that mean? I guess you’re wondering. Well, i had something else but good what’s the network line well, that’s where they think about, you know, in two way relationship building, listening, being data and form being more transparent, and i’m seeing more more organizations having their leaders do this, they’re actually using social media is a leadership role and listening. You mentioned listening now a couple of times is really needs to be very learning process it has? Yes, a disciplined process is not just this organic kind of thing, and one organization that does a tremendous job of listening is up well, which is an ocean conservation organisation. U p w well, daughter well, and so they work in a very network way in that they do all this listening and monitoring about the chatter that’s going on around the ocean. Conservation and when they spot an opportunity, then the activate their networks of ocean conservation organizations to then distribute content and conversations around ocean conservation. I’ll give you an example. Okay, so they have where they monitor different keywords that are related to their goals. And one of them happens to be sharks. Is there interest in shark conservation? And so imagine this visual and all of a sudden there’s a line and it spikes and that’s, you know, mentions of the word shark on social network shark thing. Yeah, you know, yeah, right. Right, exactly. Back down just right. It’s like, what is that? And so they found that a lot of people were using this hashtag shark week. Okay. You know, on the discovery channel shark week. Oh, good don’t know. Thiss guy swimming in a shark cage and sharks are following him, ok, anyway, so they didn’t know about it. You know, they they found out about what you know that’s. Why the word shark? We learned about it because the discovery channel program and there’s all these people who are interested in shark. So they analyze the the they did a content analysis of the conversations. And it broke down into three ways. So there was a small segment of with sharks. They’re terrified of sharks, people who are afraid of draw’s happening. Shark attacks, don’t bump, bump, bump. Okay, then there were people who were, yea, sharks, yeah, a shark conference conservation that was their people. But that was only a third of the other two thirds happened to be people who were just like sharks, and they say, that’s, an opportunity. We can insert the conversation about shark conservation into this conversation, general conversation happening about sharks, and so what they were able to do is then activate all there other organizations, create content around shark conservation and start to tweet about that. And they were able to actually measure that they did, in fact, increase the conversation about shark conservation, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss. Our coaching and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe. Right groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry. Shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio broke in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower radio. Dot com every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com you talked about breaking down the silos and empowering people throughout the organization to be engaged online, but that comes with some risks. How do we how do we balance that and manage those risks of people’s people within the organization saying things that aren’t in line with the mission? Or maybe they start to become political advocates or something which could be risky for non-profit so how do we balance? Well, you sound that sounds like a common concern of ceos. You right? You know, that’s the common fear first. Oh, my god. Scale social to everybody. Oh, my god. How we’re going to control our people, you know? Well, first there’s, this level of trust, our people, the second thing is we have a rule book known as the social media policy. And then there is a lot of training and support. And on biff it’s, a larger organizations, you might start with the people who are excited about it and that you trust tohave, you know, professional guidelines, etcetera. So the social media policy might have a thing about if you’re gonna be online representing the organization. You want to act professionally, you know, there’s always gonna be some references to the kinds of things you really can’t do on behalf the organization and be in line with the irs, like can’t there’s no partisan politics, really it’s all it’s, all manageable. It’s not definitely just want make people aware that there’s a dozen other side i mean there’s a risk. So well, let me tell you a story about let me, okay, so this is before social media. Okay, so the y m c a summer camp. Okay, all the counselors. Where y m c a t shirts right friday night. A couple of them go down to the bar twenty years ago, you know, throw down a few beers and they were complaints because, you know, what do these there were no u m c a t shirts and they’re drinking, you know? And so so they had to actually and manned the employee handbook to say, if you’re wearing a point, you know, y m c a t shirt, professional contact don’t go drinking at the bar on a friday night with your t shirt on, because that means you’re representing us. It’s no different again, you’re right. I didn’t want to suggest that. Way needed social media in orderto in order to create risks of empowering employees, i just want to get, you know, get your take on how don’t manage those risks. Yeah, so i know you have a lot of fuss about scaling, and we’re going to the next level around social media. What thoughts do you have there? Well, a lot of that is about being able, teo, empower your employees tto leverage their passion in service of the mission. Okay? And i’m gonna actually go backto up well, again, because there’s a great story. Although you have to have a bleep er on your it has a bad word. Say it, and we’ll worry about later. Okay, so there is a young woman that does this social media about part of her job. All the staff do social media up. Well, but her name is rachel, and she loves sharks. Okay? And so she had to find this tumbler community, you know about tumbler blog’s. And it had, like, five million subscribers, and it was, and they all love sharks. Okay? And was called fuck. Yeah, sharks okay. And s o but it was run by these twenty. Some. Um, things, and it was all young folks that just for crazy about sharks like and so they wanted to donate the blogged teo a non-profit and so they called her up, and and they said, yeah, we’re thinking about giving to this non-profit the discovery channel, and they said, oh, no, they’re not up non-profit because once you give itto our non-profit and so then it was brought back and the executive director, it was discussion do we have? Do we own a web property that has ah, a swear word in a part of our institutional do we swear online? You know, is that appropriate? So they decided to give, have the blah go to the employees, and they decided that the employees would buy it for the price of a pepperoni pizza. And so the block was transferred over. So and now rachel gets to spend two or three hours of her job, you know, tending to the sharks bog. So, what did you say the second time? Okay. Latto the block. Okay? Wearing? Yeah. Yeah. So? Okay, so so is that. Is it worth it to get five million people who are crazy about your mission? For the cost of a pepperoni pizza, i should say, right, right, okay, other thoughts about about s so it’s it’s not really based around empowering buy-in the employees, what about the ones who don’t really take to it? Well, i don’t know, maybe because of age or maybe because of culture do we try to bring them along? Or do we just say, you know, if it doesn’t feel right for you, then you don’t you don’t need to know is what definitely can be optional, and i think you have to think about it is a social change process within the organization, so you might start with people who are influencing others and not try to get everybody on at the same time because you’ll be faced with resistance. I’m thinking of an organization that i work at having to work with, and they were scaling it and they were they did departmental road shows where they did this, and at one meeting, i actually happen to be out, one of the senior vp said, i don’t want to be on facebook. Go on, make comments on the organization’s paige, because i don’t want the world to see. My photos of my grandson at chuck e cheese, and then we thought, ah, she doesn’t understand the privacy settings on facebook, so they did some privacy, dettori als and made her comfortable. Okay, so way could bring people along yeah, to the within their comfort level on dh through training. Yes, education help help more people come come along. Yeah, i mean, i actually did a session with the ceos of all the united way’s a california to train them to be on twitter and because it’s part of their strategy tohave all employees, you know, throughout the whole network do it. So they signed me up to do training and on the very beginning, one guy such, i’ll never get on to wit are, but this is the stupidest thing i’ve ever seen, and i’m like, well, luckily, the others didn’t feel this way, but my sort of said to him, you know what? My indicator for success this workshop will be if you get on twitter oh, you even challenged him. Yeah, okay, but you know what? And what? I had to readjust my outcome, that my metric for success was that he wasn’t going to get on twitter but he allowed his employees to do it. Okay, okay, so people can come around. Yes, alright again. Education is that buy-in we also need to be willing to fail at at this from time to time. Yes, and and use those as learning. Exactly learning opportunities. That’s, right? And that’s, you know, especially like i’m thinking about a lot of the organization’s. Here are the it’s, the people in fund-raising and there’s fund-raising benefits right events and so i asked a question, you know? Do any of you do after action reviews? You know what on dh raise their hands is what typically happens. You know way. Get the finger on that finger. But you know it’s your fault the wag a finger? Yeah, black finger. You know something doesn’t go right. It’s all your fault you know three for three tipple reactions to failure that we as individuals have first it’s your fault we blame others or it’s the agency’s fault. We say what failure? You know we deny it or else we blame ourselves for, say, it’s all my fault i’m a disease. It was all my fault. I am just terrible oh, find me on the spot i don’t deserve to live that’s pretty effusive, you know, a lot of practice is exactly exactly so so no it’s based on solve rosen swags research about psychological profiles of how we deal with making mistakes falls into one of those three typology is so we need to understand what is our perp still reaction to failure, and then once we’re aware of it within ourselves, we can understand how that how it plays out within the organization and then we need to make make the acceptance of failure part of our the way we do our work so we can get to the learning i am one of the ways is to do the failure bell. Okay, go ahead, i’ll bite. Okay, so have you ever watched olympic olympians when they’ve made a mistake or a fall like gretchen bealer, the snowboard lady rate or the gymnasts thie, olympic gin or trapeze artist stick or they fall off, right? And when they did, they do this, they raise their hands, so they raised their hands. They grin like a submissive dog and they say i failed. I’m going to move on and learn and so that’s a cathartic release, you know? I mean, i’m going to challenge you think for a moment, tony, about something that you’ve made a mistake. Mina mistake. Okay, i got it. I got it. I saw your shoulders go up and cringe. They’re really yeah. You cringe like gumby. Really? Yeah, yeah, maybe just got cold in here. Yeah, it was a cold breeze, you know, and then so it’s, just something from our childhood or upbringing. You know, i was thinking about something in business money on wisely spent. Yeah, yeah, makes us cringe. But if we’re able to do this let’s go. I felt i felt smile. So my arms are up for those listening to the podcast handup over my head, like our what sport is that field goal? Is that baseball? You know, when i fell football or baseball and then i’m gonna move on and learn what i learned from it when i met, you know, when i’m going to do differently the next time now you can’t run into a meeting late and say i fell. Beth said that was okay. Oh, and those this becomes very interesting what you said earlier about coming. From the top leaders have to be. Not not not just bought into this process, but leading the process so that people don’t fear have don’t have this fear of failure. Exactly, and that’s how it translates from the individual to the team and a lot of work. I just run the article about this for the harvard business review blawg it’s called go ahead, do a failure due a failure bell and it was actually on an analysis of non-profits that have formal ways to acknowledge and celebrate failure, and one of them is to do something group and they do a pink bow, a contest, do something dot org’s yes, i had a guest on earlier today from do something really who, uh, muneer muneer? Okay, well, may might have told you about your panjwani okay, so they dio they will bring a campaign that didn’t do well, they’ll dress up in pink boas and i’ll explain why dim or on what they learned from it. You know, global giving does the biggest loser fund-raising campaign based on the tv show what didn’t work and my favorite one is from mom’s rising, which is an activist organization. They give things a joyful funeral say that again, because they do joyful funerals. Really? That email campaign bomb? Well, time to bury it so that it died. They actually water flowers. And they given in the eulogy and that’s where they are able to reflect and go on to something that’s better outstanding. They even do a eulogy. Yes, yes. On bury the body. About two years ago, i had stephanie strawman back when she had the philanthropy beat for the new york times on she was talking about something that the world bank ran called failure, failure fair, i think or failure fest, belfast cell phone and there was fail fair. Okay, i think you’re saying about failure fail fair, right? Because i think they used in english. Bilich f a i r e you are holding on, but there’s that there was celebrating the failures they had unconference around what didn’t work exactly a nightie and there’s another group called admitting failure it’s a website so like let’s not be zombies and we’re doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past because the funders are funding something and it doesn’t work. Nobody sees that report, and people replicate those mistakes, you know? Okay, you know same. Or is it more you want to say about it? No. No. Okay, really have, like we have, like, another four and a half minutes or so. Andi want kruckel about measurement because that’s, your second book is measuring the network. Non-profit yes, we can. Can you introduce this in a couple minutes? I’m sure they data. We’re measuring. It comes right? Yeah, exactly. So the reason we brought the book is a lot of you know, after the first book, a lot of people are saying, well, okay, so now we’re we’ve changed the way we’re working, but how do we know we’re successful? And i also noticed that there were different camps about measurement most people have is either denial, fear, confusion, and they need to get to that being data informed. So i wrote this book and i actually had sixty two grantees from the packard foundation. I’m visiting scholar. There they were field testing the book with katie paine, my co authors framework. Okay, which is the seven steps of measurement. So the book takes it and puts measurement and very human easy to understand language that can help organizations go through a process. Tio measure and figure out what’s working and what’s not working with their social media and to improve it and to get better results. Okay, we can we just have time to really scratch the surface of data of this kind of measurement. What’s the easiest place to start that we could talk a little bit about in just a couple of minutes. Okay, the best. The easiest place to start is don’t try to measure the ocean if you don’t have the resources to measure the ocean, just measure one beach. Start with one simple campaign. One project, one channel. Figure out what they outcomes are for success with the one metric is for success collectibe months worth of data on that. And then actually sit down and look at it and figure out what, how you could do it better. Okay, we could we could talk a little more. We haven’t. I said, like, forty minutes ago. I’m about to give you the two minute version. We got a couple more minutes. All right. You have the luxury of time here on the morning. Okay. Three more minutes anyway. Let’s, let’s, go a little deeper. How do you how? Do you start that process? It’s going to start with? We’ll doesn’t let me ask, does it start with what were the goals of the campaign? Well, it starts with defining success, okay? You know, you know, social media is not engagement for engagements say even though engagement is really important but engagement to do something, you know, what is the outcome? Is it is it to raise money? Is it to change behavior isn’t to change legislation, is it? Teo, you know, tio improve relationships with donors, you know, is it to learn something? You know what? What is it? Why are we doing this and really home that in and once you’ve to find that what is the one metric that we can collect? That’s gonna tell us that we’ve been successful doing this, knowing in advance? Yes, yeah, we’re still in advance of the campaign. Yes, exactly symmetrical joined and social media could be about generating more conversations with the example i gave you about shark conservation, you know? And if we’re looking at you gnome or more now we’re seeing social fund-raising, you know, so if the ultimate result is more dollars raised, we know that in order to get more dollars, razor has more engagement from our engagement. We have two better relationships with our donors. We have people have to know about us. So you have to have this whole ladder of it of engagement and need. What? What the benchmark is to convert from each rung and then relating that to your what? How are you doing this? What kinds of conversation starters are you using? How are you doing your influence? A research and making it better based on that data that you’re getting right, being willing to recognize that there there are better ways is to have done it. Yes, not. We’re going to do with sam away. Okay. Anything you want to leave people with, we have just a minute left. Maybe a final thought on measurement. Yeah, i think that my final thought is that i think you know, the keys to success of being a network non-profit is to be networked, use measurement and make sense of your data. Okay. I also, like not being afraid to fail. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Making sense of yours, you know, making sense. Your data part of that is don’t be afraid. To fail. Okay, good on. Learn from it. Okay. Beth cancer. Master trainer, blogger, speaker, author network non-profit and measuring the network non-profit beth where’s your blawg it’s ah, beth catcher dot org’s just google. Beth, just go to bed and i show up number after kiss beth but if you need to go further cancerous k and tr thank you very much for being against great. Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure, it’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen which has been taken down around us if i was to pan the camera now you see bare tables no more pipe and drape no more nice bunting, no more flowers, your table’s being wheeled out on carts and basically an empty room with lots of trash around that’s what’s left of the last remnants of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen. Thanks very much for being with us. My thanks to beth cantor and all the folks who helped organize our appearance at fund-raising day two thousand thirteen, we were on the exhibit floor doing interviews for the show. We go away for a couple of minutes and after we come back tony’s take to my gratitude and maria simple goodbye, google alerts. Stay with me. E-giving anything tooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz e-giving. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef duitz oh! Bonem welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m sorry, i can’t send live listener love this week, even though it’s the sesquicentennial we’re pre recording this week. But of course, live love going out to all our listeners in asia, japan, china, south korea. If if if our friends from buenos aires around ola alejandro francisco, california, north carolina, new york, oregon, those are the frequent listeners texas checks in from time to time. So but live listener love to everybody who’s listening. Thank you very much for listening. And tony’s, take two is my additional thank you for being supporters of the show. This is one hundred fiftieth show we started in july two thousand ten, and i’m just grateful for your support week after week. For those of you who get the email alerts, i thank you for letting me into your inbox every thursday. Thank you for that. Um, just, uh, just grateful. Stay with us for another hundred fifty and that is not on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com it’s just coming from me. And that is tony’s. Take two for friday twelfth of july the the twenty eighth show of the year. Maria samples with us to talk about the possibility of google alerts going good bye. How are you, maria? Simple. I’m doing well, thanks. How are you today? Terrific. Thank you. We know maria she’s, the prospect finder she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now, she’s our doi n of dirt cheap and free you’re gonna prove that today is gonna live up to it. You can follow maria on twitter at maria simple. I see some disenchantment with google alerts is that is that part of the problem? Yes, you know, there has been some disenchantment with it. I’ve been seeing other colleagues in the prospect research profession kind of complaining about the alerts not working as well and so forth. And, you know, i had found that myself and we’ve talked about this before, right? Tony on your shows where, you know, talk about how to tweak the alerts and maybe you’ll get it more results. But now i’ve actually started seeing some articles in recent months. Ah, nothing. Has been confirmed by google that i could find on their own website that have said that a google alert might actually be dying off. It might just go away. It might not be something they offer anymore and got me quite concerned because it seems like they’re not really maintaining it because the number of people are complaining that the number of alerts they’re getting has been reduced and the number of alerts within each message has been reduced and the ones that they’re getting are not so good quality, not not like they used to be, right, exactly. So i thought, well, there must be some alternatives out there and fortunately, some of the articles that i referenced which, by the way, i can provide those article links if you like, on your social media sites telling readers, will have access to them, they gave some interesting alternatives, and i started playing around with them a little bit myself in preparation for today’s show, so i thought we could just sort of talk about what some of those alternatives are and also what you want to be setting up alerts on, right? I’m sure that we can do that so what you’re promising, i think all free, all free ideas today. Yeah, well, i’m gonna provide you with some alternatives that all have free components to it. Okay? And then if people feel like those alerts aren’t yielding enough results, they could always go with some of the sea based resource. Is that those components also offer? So e i give your listeners options? Shall we? Ok, there, our listeners, maria, our listeners please share that share the lizard shared listener love. There are listeners. Okay, so, uh, what’s the first one you wanna talk about? So one interesting when i came across that i’ve been testing for a few weeks, actually is called talk walker dot com uh, so they have free alerts that you can set up, but they have a fee based online service. But from what i have found in using it for the last couple weeks, i’ve been getting alerts from them on the same exact alerts that i had set up on my google alerts account, and the results definitely have been different. I can’t say that. Okay, he’s not supposed to be that way. But if google is not keeping up maintaining its alerts than i guess. It’s, i guess that’s the explanation. Okay, so so what is it you like about talk? Walker? Well, i like the fact that you can set those alerts for free. You can still have those alerts delivered to your email inbox. So again, it’s sort of that push technology that we’ve talked about in the past set it up once. Once you’ve got it set up the way you want it, it’ll just keep delivering those those results to your inbox. So i really like that feature very much on talk walker. Also, you can set it up to be able tio send it to you as an alert as often as you like, you can set it up, you know, once today, as it happens or once a week. So you’ve got a few options there and how often you get those alerts delivered very much like google. So i think anybody who’s familiar with google alert, they’re going to find this interface to be very similar. So the interface is is similar, but the quality of the results is much better. Your seeing a difference, obviously, yeah. I have been seeing a difference, i’ve been finding more alert that air coming through where there are mentions on blogger on dh, some other social media related sites, so i thought that was definitely kind of interesting there, you know, how those alerts air coming through and how it seems to expand upon just the number of sources that it seemed to be picking up on, for example, i haven’t alert set up on my name and there’s an author, maria sample, we’ve talked about this before, and, uh, so i was able to filter out the results where her book title was also mentioned in the search results, much like i would do for for a google alert, for example. So is the shortcoming that you see or part of the shortcoming that you see in the google lorts is that it’s not indexing in searching blog’s or yeah, this is part of a defensive services that i’ve looked into seemed to be covering more on the social mentions side, which, you know, could be really important for a non-profit to be monitoring when they’re, you know, looking to monitor their own brand or who’s talking about them on social, so i thought that was really pretty cool. Okay? And you’re not seeing those results on the google alerts. Not as extensive. No. Okay. Interesting. So you’re doing side by side comparison because you said the alert your setting on these test sites are the same as the ones you have set for google. Okay, avery, right. And the only one that i set up for the last few weeks is on the talk walker site on the others too, that i really kind of tested out in preparation for today’s show. I didn’t mora’s, you know, live looking at the search search results tonight, i did look atyour name to see where some of this came up on social one of the other sites that that we’ll talk about called mentioned dot net. Is that the only one where i definitely different is that the only one where i appeared is unmentioned or that’s? Only one where you set the alert for may? I said it i that was the one where i set up the the alert for you on dh then yeah, definitely. That was one where i set up toe look at tony martignetti and i’ve noticed something that came up on philanthropy dot com for you, and this is on mentioned dot net this’s going, we haven’t talked about yet. Why don’t we move someone? We moved to that one since ah, it’s, it’s all about me and thiss must have been the most interesting a sight in your searcher and you’re testing because that’s the way so was it mentioned dot com it’s actually mentioned dot net. Okay mentioned dot net? Yeah, and so they had a neat analytics tool is built into it. You can get emailed alerts, which i did not set up the email alerts. I just kind of monitoring what was going on on the site itself. Um, the alerts can actually be shared with a team of co workers. So, i mean, think about this in a team of non-profits i mean, a non-profit development team or ah, development committee or something like that in a smaller non-profit where you would want to make sure that people were also sort of aware of where your key donors might be mentioned or where your organization name might be mentioned. So i thought that was a pretty neat feature. Yeah, saves you having to. Get the e mails and then forward them to people, right? Exactly, exactly. But i understand you weren’t you weren’t getting using yours? Yes, i did come across some mention of the tweet you had sent out about listening toe episode one forty nine i saw you mentioned on ah blawg for n green non-profit dot com i saw your mention on philanthropy dot com where else could i see? Do you do you know a person named david? Dear inger no, i don’t attorney no, no. Well, yeah, he was talking about me and i appreciate it. That’s fine. I’m happy to have people talking about me. Who? I don’t know that they’re the ones who’ll say the best things they don’t they don’t know me that well. Um okay, so so this actually goes into tweets too. But but now i send tweets under my name. Many a day like i don’t know it doesn today or something, would it? Would it not be finding those for some reason? Or is it only people talking about me? Not me, not not my own content. Maybe that’s it right? So it was i just did it on your name. I didn’t do it on your twitter handle, i did it on tony space martignetti is what i’m having a track on mentioned dot net on dso it tell it told me that, for example, seven hours ago is when you tweeted out that tweet about listen toe episode one forty nine you know, etcetera, so it’ll it’ll tell you how long ago this mentioned was also mentioned online are xero so, you know, i just thought it was definitely something that could be interesting for organizations you know, where this got me to really thinking it could be fascinating would be an article that i read, i don’t know if you you picked up on that in the june issue of the chronicle of philanthropy, and that particular issue talked a lot about raising money online and one of the things that kind of to the forefront. For me, the ability to use these alerts was the organization, the environmental defense fund. I don’t know if they’re listener of your show, but it turns out that the article mentions that they’ve trained their data specialists to scour the internet to find out who is advocating on behalf of the organization online. And then they conduct research to find out what would swayed the activists to make a first time gift and then give again okay, so you know, that got me to thinking, well, this is just sort of a way to find out who’s talking about you, perhaps start connecting with them online, bringing it to the attention of your front line fundraiser that you’re being talked about by this particular person, and this could be a real advocate. This could be somebody you should get to know. Yeah, for sure using i mean, that’s the value of the prospect research, right? I mean, they’re they’re feeding their feeding the pipeline with potential prospects with right suspects, become prospects or suspects could could become prospects. Okay, absolutely. Now, do you see differences between mention and talk? Walker? Yeah, definitely the interfaces is a lot different and, you know, i think that people just take a look at it and see where they’re you know, most comfortable they do have a zay said they also provide that emailed alerts and analytics tool, and this company actually does provide certain levels of service so that you can have plans, they range from six, ninety nine a month to sixty five dollars a month. And so again, there, if you’re finding that you really like this service, but you’d liketo have many more search results than what you’re getting or you want to track a lot more alert than you, you know, maybe you’ve got a twenty donorsearch teams you want to track or something like that, then you know, you you might have to go into some of the sea bass services. Okay. Okay. So there’s limits on the number of alerts for the for the flames. Fundez limit the alert. Okay. Okay. We have about a minute before we go away for a couple minutes. Another site you want to talk about besides talk walker and mention yes, there’s another one called social mentioned dot com and, uh, they have set up that is a gun similar to setting up your google alerts in terms of being able to set up in advance search, like the filtering service. And before we go to break just a teaser, i’ll just say to your listeners, come back because you want to know what we’re talking about here when we talk about a passion score for, uh, for social mentions. Okay, look at maria, give it doing little outro to the break that’s. So that’s, so skilled, passion score sounds, sounds pretty cool. We have passion in the studio every every week, i believe, okay, we’re going to take that break that maria just brought us into, and when we come back, she and i’ll keep talking about the alternatives to google or it’s, just in case they go away, and to me, it sounds like even if google lorts doesn’t go away, she’s got alternatives. That seemed better, so stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s, monte, m o nt y monty taylor. Dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back to the low qui loki sesquicentennial, loki, sesquicentennial show maria, why don’t you tell us what the what the passion score is at social mentioned dot com so the passions score as they define it. They say it’s, a measure of the likelihood that individuals talking about your brand will do so repeatedly. For example, if you have a small group of very passionate advocates to talk about your product or brand all the time, you will have a hyre passions score. So imagine in a situation where you’ve got people who are who are just really, always tweeting about your organization. Uh, i mean, these are people that are right there at their they’re advocating their retweeting your stuff, etcetera, this’s something that you want to be aware of is and this is free. We could get our passion score for free from social mention dot com. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Okay. Absolutely. So, for example, i had gone in and just on a search and put in my name in quotes like i would on an advanced search of for google because i wanted to search for maria semple is a phrase, and then i wanted to knock out any of the search results where that other author was mentioned, so i knew what keywords to put in there to knock out the results, and i came up with a very interesting set of searches search results, i should say that included photos that were taken of me speaking by others and posted on flicker ah, video that i had created and placed on youtube. Um, what else did i come across other videos where i appeared like a non-profit times interview, so i just kind of left it open for all dates, but you could also if you find the search results are you are too high, you can also filter it down and say, well, i’m also only interested in seeing, say up to the last thirty days worth of results as to where your your mentioned excellent so you want to share your passion score? Actually, it said it was fifty percent when i did that search in that way, so i thought that wasn’t too bad. Ok, i’m going, i’m going to try this one. I like this one on dh if my passion score is higher than fifty, then i’ll reveal it. And if it’s not, then we’ll just forget about it. Yeah, they talk well, let me set up an alert and fortunately, um, right now they’re alert service is disabled so you can go to the website without having toe log in and create an actual account or anything, and you can you can go ahead and do a search on social mention dot com and see what the search results are and trying to filter them down. But in terms of then linking that particular search up to be constantly sent to you through email, we talked about before their alert services currently disabled. So i hopefully i mean it says it’s coming up in the next week or so, maybe they’re just revamping it, making it bigger and better. I’m not sure, but that was that was a little disappointing to see. I couldn’t actually test the alert feature. Tio it’s good, you know, for listeners to understand we’re recording on tuesday the ninth so by the time you listen, maybe we’ll be back up. But it sounds pretty cool, but can we get the passion score without the alert feature being up? Yeah, yeah. So i just went to social mention dot com i put in the search that i was looking for, and it came up with a passion score. And then they come up with something also called a sentiment score. Oh, and they say that that’s the ratio of mentions that are generally positive to those that are generally negative. And i have no idea how they define positive versus negative. But ah, this was out of the search. The thirteen let’s see out of the twenty six mentions, they gave me a sentiment score of thirteen xero meaning that i guess it was mostly a positive, i hope that’s what the issue is not okay, i hope it’s positive to negative not negative to positive for your for your benefit. We’ll tell you what. Why don’t you just do a little have a little fun? We only have a few more minutes and i still won’t talk about what you should be monitoring. Why don’t you put my name in quotes in social mention dot com let’s see what we come up with, like passionate zoho are put it in it’s tony martignetti passion version and see what we come. Up with versus the other one sentiment and okay, but let’s move let’s, you and i will get to that before we get seven percent passion score. Tony, i killed you. It’s around it’s? Not even close it’s not even close. It started in close. It’s a route cream your clothes wear matter-ness metrics. We don’t get too excited about this. Tony martignetti a seven percent passion scores your sentiment score came up as three, two, zero, three. All right, let’s not talk about that sentiment score clearly is not acting. I’m looking at things in here from fund-raising day in new york. Somebody’s gotta blogged on youtube videos about you. Well, clearly the sentiment score that’s inaccurate. So we dismissed that that that that function, that function is not working clearly. So don’t pay any attention to what you get for the sentiment score the passion scores very accurate. But you know, these vanity mary-jo vanity that you believe that these air vanity metrics we don’t pay that much attention. I killed you, but we’re not paying that much attention. Really, teo, vanity metrics smear. But they’re not really that important. Let’s talk about what? What we should be. Monitoring? Because only have a couple minutes left. What should we what should non-profits be paying attention to and setting in these different, uh, adi’s different sites. Okay. So the name of your organization again here that will help point you toward people who are advocates on your behalf. You should be setting up alerts on your top donors. Think about reasons tohave to send out and reach out and have a touchpoint with your donors that don’t involve asking them for money. So this might alert you to wear. Your donors are mentioned in the press. It might alert you, teo, on somebody having ah, major appointment or advancement or appointment to a board of directors somewhere. So your top donors, the companies were your donor’s work. So again here, if that’s important for you to also maintain a relationship with the company because it’s a large corporation or if it’s one of your donors, private companies that’s almost more important, i think because whatever is happening in that donors world related to his his or her private company, you’d want to know about those those major, you know, advancements in the press, for example. So again here, it’s an opportunity for you to perhaps pick up the phone, send out an email, sent out a card somethingto have some sort of a touchpoint thatyou noticed, right? Andi could add foundations to that too, for the same purpose, right? We like. We like to keep in touch with foundations just like they’re people because they’re they’re staffed by people so foundations that are funding you, you might find a reason to write to them and you’re not, uh you’re not sending ah request for, you know, a grant grant proposal. Exactly. Okay, we pretty much have to leave it there. Maria. Excellent advice, as always. Thank you very much. You will find maria at the prospect finder dot com and also on twitter at maria simple. Thanks, maria. Thanks so much. Next week i’ll have another fund-raising day interview for you. I don’t know which one quite yet. My voice just cracked. They’re a little bit for you and amy sample word comes back she’s, our social media contributor and the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten have you liked our facebook page? It’s another vanity metric. I know, but if you can, if you can make your way over there. Love to have your like this is the last time i’ll ask for a couple of weeks at least, insert sponsor message over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities. Listen each week, if you’d like to talk about sponsorship for the show, you can reach me through the blogged. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules he’s, the one who enabled me to get all that audio and video from fund-raising day. I hope you’ll be with me next friday. That’ll be the nineteenth. I’ll be back in the studio. We’ll be at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. E-giving didn’t think shooting. Good ending to do. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Cubine are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn timpson juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Hyre this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking.

137: Followship & Social Media Boundaries – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Allison Fine, co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit.”

Gene Takagi, principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 137_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20130412.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T22:58:52.296Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2013…04…137_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20130412.mp3.43235077.json
Path to text: transcripts/2013/04/137_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20130412.txt

Dahna hi there on. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Have you read it to review the show on itunes? If you haven’t, i’d be grateful if you go there. I know you don’t have to go back once you subscribe, but i’d be grateful if you would make the trip here’s what some people are saying in reviews gold for non-profits the best non-profits show period although that person had eclipsys after that period. So it’s period eclipsys i’m amazed at the variety equality and depth of his interviews. That person probably thinks i’m shallow. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been amazed he should just be fulfilled and his expectations being met. You have no idea what the trouble i went through to put those three reviews up their different accounts, i had to go to a public library, use the computer there. So please supplement those three that i put up with with your own one two, five star rating and and review the show. I’d be grateful. This is friday, april twelfth and i very much hope that you were with me last week because i would develop acute pancreatitis if i heard that you had missed talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot president of practice development council, is a consultant and coach in cross generational communications think sixtieth, sixty ish boss and twenty five ish employees or seventy year old fundraiser and thirty year old donor-centric ship, phyllis had strategies for understanding and working across the generations. This week, followship alison find, co author of the network non-profit, has been thinking lately about opening organizational culture to allow non-profits to be more reactive to the interests and motivations of their followers, while still keeping oz insight and she’s going to share her thoughts. Also, social media boundaries. Our legal contributor, jean takagi from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo suggests rules for your use of social media it’s not a free for all for your employees and volunteers, jean will help you stay out of trouble between the guests on tony’s take two. The irs is still using form nine ninety to inquire about your compliance with state charity registration laws. Sounds thrilling, but i can make a lot more interesting than it sounds. My pleasure now to welcome alyson find she studies and rights at the intersection of social media and social change. She’s, author of the award winning book mo mentum, igniting social change in the connected age, published by wile e. Her latest book is the networked non-profit co authored with beth cantor, also widely published. She’s, a contributor to harvard business review online that’s at hbr dot or ge she hosts a monthly podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy called social good. I have one of those, too, and she blog’s a fine blawg at allison fine dot com. They’re two l’s in allison on twitter, she’s at a fine allison with two l’s welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Thanks for having me, tony. I’m delighted to be here. Thanks, alison. Um, you work at the intersection of social media and social change. It sounds like a crossing guard. Yeah, what’s their what’s it that intersection well on off a lot of activity, uh, and a reshaping of institutional life right now. Uh, whereas what used to be on the outside for institutions are in use on the insider is out and that’s the kind of changing of the contours in the landscape that i’ve been taking a hard look at the last several years. What do you mean what’s in was what’s out was in what it’s in is out? What do you mean by that? Well, so imagine tony, you’re running a small social service agencies surety and there are bloggers out there and tweeters and a whole bunch of other folks who are interested in your issue and they’re looking hard. So those folks who used to be on the outside not really able to see inside are poking around now, and they’re talking about your issues and they’re talking about your organization and on the other side, the staff of organisations, whether organizational leadership of likes it or not, are on social media channels and talking about the organization. Well, so what used to be on the inside is now on the outside, uh, and what it does mainly for very traditional non-profit leaders gear the heck out of them. Yeah. There’s ah, right. Scaring about scared about losing control. Yeah, they already lost control. Go continue to care that they’re going to lose it. Okay, on dh. What are your thoughts around? Followship? What do you mean by followship? So now we’re looking at an environment and ecosystem where organizations are flatter, some by economic necessity and others because they’re using social media and networks better and, uh, there’s this changing relationship, as i said between inside and outside and the reality is tony, that people who are open toe helping causes and non-profits aren’t sitting back on their couches waiting to be told what to do, they aren’t waiting for the latest press release to come out, so smart organizations are understanding that in this new environment they have to lead by following their crowd and it’s a very different dynamic. It doesn’t mean they’re not leaders right there setting big goals and saying to folks were trying to get from here, there, you know, we’re trying to end homelessness, we’re trying to reduce obesity, whatever the big goal is, but we need you our crowd to help us get from here to there, and you’re going to do that by being creative and energetic and working side by side with us. But why do why does why do i, as the leader of this very well run? Stewart lee run very efficiently run very productive social organised social service. Organisation that that i’m head of why do i? Why do i need to follow? Don’t i know the goal? What you say you like to say, oz and and how best to get there? I mean, i have a strategic plan, i have a board we’ve we’ve interviewed like minded agencies in the town, in the in the community, we’ve included our community in those interviews to produce that strategic plan. I mean, i think i know best i’m sure you d’oh uh, but the bottom line is, tony, you might think you know best, but social problems are enormously complex. We aren’t making progress in a lot of areas, and if organizations are very honest with themselves, they’ll see oftentimes the lack of progress and we can’t do this work alone, we have got to do this work in communities with communities, and the only way to do that is to treat people as part of your effort, not the foot soldiers doing on ly what you asked. So you’re taking a look at the fact that, uh, things like hunger and poverty and homelessness and domestic violence and climate change any literal way economic we’ve been at these things for generations, you know, so look, over the last thirty years, the needle hasn’t moved on these things, not because we’re not trying, not because there aren’t smart people doing the work, but because they are enormously difficult to solve, and institutions alone can’t solve them. It’s very dismaying to me is i think about all those things that we’ve been at for for generations, but don’t be dismayed, tony, because the great news is we’ve got this, you know, very vital, robust, energetic new way of looking at the world using our social media tool kit oh, and engaging networks of people to do great things, but you’re very encouraged, okay? But you’re concerned also, that people are that leaders are not engaging in the right way. They’re more following their their written strategic plan or they’re they’re treating as you suggested constituents as foot soldiers, you know, do this now, volunteer now sign the petition now. Donate now come to our event, uh, and and and they are exhausted. I spoke to over five hundred social service leaders in wichita, kansas yesterday. Lovely, lovely people. And they are exhausted, tony and they are struggling financially and they’re getting burned out and this is a large reason why pushing the boulder up a hill by yourself as a siloed institution is not an effective way of working. Okay, we don’t have to do it anymore. We have an alternative. Okay, followship is our alternative that’s? Exactly right? Okay, i’m not just made anymore. I’m already uplifted and just just ninety seconds you turn me around all right? So you want teo, you say, you know, take down silos, break down walls, open the culture wei have just like two minutes or so before our first break. What’s our what’s, our first step we need to know where these people are, what they want to do. The first step is listening. Yeah, right. So the first step is once you have come to the understanding of i need to work different, like, you know, there was a world out there that i can connect with. But i have to do it in the right way. Then you begin by listening. What are people out there talking about in regards to my issue and regards, maybe to my institutions. And how can i best help them more listening than we did in the interview’s for creating this music plan that’s exactly right? I’m in a more natural wave of listening through conversation like tony, right? This isn’t a science. This is being human and asking people tell me what you think. Tell me how we’re doing. Tell me why you were dismayed last year when we didn’t do act. I really think social media provides an opportunity for us to re humanize ourselves out there. So i, as the head of this social, i’d like to be ceo of a rather executive director. Okay, president, ceo of this social services so i khun b or i should be engaging directly. Well, you know, social media is not a spectator sport contact sport made everybody hands on and in order for you to run your agency, i think you’ve got to be engaged with your community. All right? I don’t want to break my collarbone. No, like that baseball player did just yesterday. That would be bad. That was just too much contact. But you can’t go on injured reserve. We need you on the field. Okay, on doubt. I mean, i could be having face to face conversations with my folks, too, right? Yes, thanks for the reminder. I never, ever want to give anybody the impression at social media, a substitute for in person engagement. It augments it, it never, ever take the place of it. We’re gonna pick up right there. We got to go away for a couple of minutes. I’ll have some live listener love when we come back and continue this conversation with alison, fine about followship. She’ll stay with me, and i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated ghisolf dot com or it’s. Six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com konnichiwa live listener love to tokyo and support of japan. Konnichiwa. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Live listener love also california. We got san francisco and tustin, california. Welcome, san antonio and clifton, texas live listener love to you as well on dh lots of others to come. All right, alison, what should we be listening if we’re gonna be listening? We need to be asking questions of the folks who are connected to our to my cause. What? What? What questions should i be asking? Well, it’s it’s going to depend entirely on your particular cause, tony and and where you are and your life cycle of your organization you just starting. Are you? You know, more mature. I really strongly encouraged people to actually start by just listening and not speaking. Not something that we are taught to dio anywhere. I didn’t take a graduate course in it, did you? No. And in fact, when i was in the dark days when i used to practice law, i was i was always upset that there wasn’t a billing code for listening or thinking that was another there’s never a code for. Thinking i always had to be doing something, producing some documents, some delivery ble what couldn’t i just bill half an hour for thinking about your case? I couldn’t do it. No, i i understand that. And we, you know, in the nonprofit sector b value, dizziness, a great deal. Uh, but it’s very important to get a feel for what people are talking about, what they’re passionate about, what they’re interested in and then to begin to practice asking questions. There’s a great irony, tony actually have to remember howto ask a good question because organizations aren’t good at it we’re so used to broadcasting, though, used to wrapping up ourselves and talking points that are closed, that learning how to honestly openly, authentically asked a riel question that you want to know the answer to that you don’t already know the answer to take some practice. And, of course, this all feeds into riel engagement in the social networks. Exactly. Exactly think about it, tony, think about the number of times you’ve been approached by a non-profit right that there is a they send you a press release or they send you? Ah, you know, direct mail piece. And those aren’t conversations, right? Those they’re just messages being sent at you. You know, it’s a broadcast broadcast right now think about the difference of if you got from somebody who said, you know, i know that you came to our event last year. Um, how’d it go for you? Would you think about it? What do you think about us? What can we do? Better but that’s a conversation. Okay, okay, now we need to ah, keep our goals in sight. Um, you’re just you want us to be you want me to be flexible and how i get to them. That’s exactly right. There’s a group called epic change epic epic change. Okay, they are raising money to give to for global poverty alleviation. And the way they go into every year is they create a facebook group. They invite their, you know, folks duitz expressed an interest in their cause or rather than few fewer into the group they here’s the goal for the year. We’re trying to raise x amount of money or we’re trying to work in a new country. How we going to do it? How we’re going to get from here to there and people really engaged, it takes those great facilitation skills. That’s what followship is all about right? It’s, not the wild west you’re not just letting it go anywhere it wants to go. You’ve got to be a great cocktail party host to make that happen, right? Keeping the conversation going, but it really is being respectful of the creativity and smarts of your supporters and engaging them in a process of getting you from here to there. What am i going to say to my board that looks at me let’s say this is a five year old agency and i’ve got ah, oh, seven hundred fifty thousand dollars annual budget, right, trying to keep it fairly modest, but, you know, i’d like to have achieved something in five years for pete’s sake. Um, my board expects me to be the leader. What am i going to say to them when i’m asking when i’m asking them to allow the agency to be flexible and taking tio not only take into consideration, but follow the follow the lead of the crowd? Uh, with so if you have a very skeptical board, which would be a shame, right? We really got to think about who serves on board and and why we keep packing them with so many lawyers. Yes, much bigger topics for life, right? Because, lord find on certainly uncertainty very, very unsettling. Yes, you well, now. Ah, so if that’s the kind of bored that you have, what i strongly recommend is that you try followship as an experiment, take one small area in which you work for this year, maybe it’s one fund-raising event, maybe it’s one new program or revamping an existing program and try out the idea you’re not throwing the whole organization out. You’re continuing with the things that work. But you are figuring out a new way to work with people that will be particularly appealing to younger supporters. That’s, i think, is the case you could make any board. Okay, we’ll take it and we’ll take it in bite-sized pieces. Could it be? Could we do this around an event? Absolutely. You had suggested the event earlier. How do we do have a wee look what could have done better? Think about the difference tony of posting on facebook from a group that you’ve liked that says march nineteenth is our gala dinner buy your tickets now from a post echo’s up six months earlier that says we’d like to do a spring event. What kinds of things have you been to lately that you like? What kinds of things do you think we could do and start a conversation about it? Which one do you feel more excited about? Yeah, i’m going to participate in the latter. Mohr you engaged me now i have a pretty sizable ego, though. It’s gonna be hard for me now. All right? So you’ll help me persuade the board. Now, i have to now have to persuade myself that i don’t have all the answers in our community geever so if you feel that you have all the answers, i would suggest social change work is probably not a good fit for you. Therapy is probably wise psychiatry, perhaps even psychotropic drugs i’m already using them. I’m afraid already on psychotropics led me to this delusion. This is really, really hard work now, okay? It doesn’t mean that we don’t need mars confit and people running organizations. Of course we do. But if their ego is so large, they don’t allow other people. To help them solve large community problems, and they’re not going to get very far because these are collective problems that need collective solutions. You’re critical of president obama’s campaign back from two thousand eight what what happened there? I don’t think so much in two thousand eight is as opposed to this last one, so two thousand eight it was great fun, right? They let people come in and gave them a menu of things that you could do and let them go, which is great then they forgot about them once they got elected. I didn’t quite know what to do with a multimillion person proud once they got into the white hot right house because, you know, forbid somebody should talk about marijuana or something that made them uncomfortable. So they put them all into a direct mail, dona base and that’s. What they did this last election cycle was that they had a very clear, tightly controlled, um, ways of managing people as fundraisers and as voters. And that was it. So i found the last cycle enormously disempowering for people. Zamora how they treated the two thousand eight followers. Exactly in two thousand twelve you don’t really think you’re so smart and creative anymore. We don’t really need your help that way. All we need are your checks in your vote. People have a lot more to give them that ego. We know it now. We’ve been in office for years. We know what we’re doing, we know what we’re doing, and we’re going to control this thing to get from here to there. Allison fine is and author most recently of the network to non-profit, which is widely published and that you can find it on amazon. You can also find it on the barnes and noble actually found it a little less expensive at barnes and noble. Um, and i want to send some more live listener love, so to new bern, north carolina, frederick, maryland, and lasalle, illinois live listener love we have listeners in china knee how that’s from shanghai and hei bai, the asian continent very well represented for tony martignetti non-profit radio. Thank you. I’m glad you’re with us week to week. Um, alison, do you think a a presidential candidate could emerge from the social networks? I think what we’re going to see tony is we’re going to see it start at a more grassroots level. We’re going to start to see some layers around the country and then some governors who come up this way. Uh, it’s too hard to try to scale this at a national level first, i think, but you’re going to find somebody who’s very good at this. And, you know, rand paul could be that person because the tea party really get followship or there really are they particularly grassroots organizing online in a way that other people down they are particularly good at online engagement there. Fenton, stick at it. How so? What? What does that they do that you admire? Uh, they allow lots and lots of people to talk very loudly. Right? So being loud doesn’t bother them at all. A part of their dna. Being loud bothers other organizations and awful lot. It scares them. They support local organizing without having a need to try to control all the local organizing. They’re fried or foundation does the same thing right gives you an idea of what you should be doing. So the local p party talk. About these kinds of things, but when and how you do it that’s up to you say the name of the foundation again. You cut out. I’m sorry. The surfrider foundation. Thank you. Surf rider. Okay, they’re fried. Er it’s a non-profit thirty five years old in county started in california to provide coastal cleanup. They have hundreds of, um, chapters around the country. And tony, they basically let them do what they want to do. If you want to mash up our logo, go ahead. If you want teo street cleanup this year instead of coastal cleanup, go ahead. And in the end, the spokes do an amazing amount of work on dh. Just engage thousands of volunteers in this third rider. Like the tea party, i understand that you can provide big goals. You can provide the contours of what we need done and then let people go. Those are excellent examples. I never thought of the tea party as as such a good example of online engagement. But yeah, everything you’re saying is true. They do. They said broad outlines and and then they have hundreds of local activists and i mean and low under the local. Chapters and they’re not worried about descent. They’re not worried about disagreement, they’re not worried about some yelling. You know what happens to awesome with organizations, tony, is they’re so concerned about anything that smacks of criticism that they find it very difficult to step outside in unguarded ways. All right, um, the strategic plan that i’ve mentioned that we my organization spent about twenty thousand dollars on for a consultant to help administer and do the interviews and coalesce, and we had that nice powerpoint deck that they presented to the board a year ago. What am i going to do with my strategic plan? Throw it out. Oh, allison, fine, i said i was being very polite when you mentioned it the first time, and i didn’t bring it up. What a waste of money it was. Well, all right, let’s, talk about it now, because i’ve got my board on board and i’ve set my ego aside. That’s a very big step. Yeah, but it hasn’t solved the problem yet, right? So look how many groups you know that spent all that time and money on a strategic plan. Do everything in the planet at the end. Go the boy. That was the best thing we ever did. All right, maybe one or two over my career. Mainly. What you hear is holy, who spent a lot of time on that thing for sure. And in that process, you know, closer to your community as an organization, right? You had an outside or talk to them a zoho you couldn’t talk to them, which i don’t underst dan oh, that’s interested? Yes, i can’t talk to your community. That’s the core got a scientific approach, tio data collection because that’s the corner of their plan. You know, i was a program evaluator for a long time, tony. So you know, i have respect for people who collect data, but to say that you need an outside to come in and interview stakeholders for your organization, as opposed to the conversations you should be having every day with the people who are most important to your efforts. I don’t get it. And then the worst part, though, is pretending that we can project out years at a time. Right now, when anybody who’s successful in business will tell you right now that you can’t plan out more than a year? You just can’t your troublemaker. I am okay. And i’m small, so people really kind of leave me alone. I admire troublemakers. I like things to be shaken up. It’s a school during you call a pot stirring okay? During, right? Something that pops. Not so much troublemaker. All right, i’ll call you troublemaker. You call yourself a buster? How does the occupy movement do? Just we just have about two minutes left. What’s your assessment of them. I think that, uh, i think it’s fascinating. I think they did a great job of turning out. Ah, lot of people. But i think of that kind of organizing tony like a pointillist painting. It’s one dot and it’s going to take a lot of dots over a lot of time for that thing to mature. It’s. Not over yet. It’s just in its infancy ilsen. Fine. I hope you’re going to come back. My pleasure, i hope. It’s been my pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much. Alison. Fine. Her latest. My pleasure. Her latest book, the network non-profit co authored with beth cantor. You confined it. Amazon. You can find it at barnes and noble and on twitter, she’s a fine thankyou again, alison. My pleasure, tony talking. We’re gonna go away when we come back. Tony’s, take two about some charity registration technicalities and then social media boundaries with jean takagi. Stay with me. Ditigal lending the dude in the good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. Nothing. Cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Dahna and i’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio time for my take to taxes are on everybody’s mind april fifteenth coming up so i’m talking about the tax form that charity’s fill out the nine, ninety and between that form and one of its schedules, there are two questions that probe your offices compliance with state charity registration laws, which i always think is interesting that’s a federal agency questioning whether you’re complying with state laws. It’s not a good idea too fudge on those questions because you’re nine, ninety assigned by an officer under penalty of perjury. So you want to be conscious of your compliance with those registration laws in each state where you are soliciting donations, it’s not enough to just be registered in your home state if you are soliciting in other states. The post on my block is irs continues inquiry on charity registration compliance the block is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twelfth of april fifteenth show of the year jean takagi is with me he’s, our regular legal contributor to the principal at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com, and he is at gi tak gt. A k on twitter. Jean takagi, welcome back. Thanks, sonny. How you doing? I’m doing well, pleasure to have you back, it’s, good to talk to you. We don’t want to need to set some boundaries around social media. Why do we need more than just sort of usage guidelines? Well, let me first get some of your opening comments, tony, dark days when you’re a lawyer. Oh, yes. So you have a song about just go i jean i you know, i i love that you love the practice of law, it did not do for me what it does for you, but i appreciate that, tony, it definitely isn’t for everyone. And i heard alison’s comments as well about lawyers finding uncertainty unsettling on probably being deal breakers and, well, now i don’t think she said, did you say deal breakers? I know should i sort of added okay, well, let’s, not let’s, not put words in my mouth because defamation is one of things we’re going to talk about your there we go. So part of the reason why you need you need rules in this game. And so i actually agree with ours that lawyers do find uncertain uncertainty unsettling, and we can sometimes be deal breakers, which are my words and part of the reason why is that? Because if we give advice, tio some organizations and, you know what, consultant were to give that advice and has ninety nine percent effectiveness and ninety nine percent of the organisation it works really well, there is that one percent it might not work well point, and they might actually get in trouble using that advice with the lawyer we can’t afford to do that. We’ve got to make sure that we’re protecting one hundred percent, which means we can’t quite be is aggressive in some ways in other ways we can let organizations and our clients know how we can empower them to let them know what is okay to do and that they should feel comfortable doing it, that it may be part of theirs, their duties in terms of furthering their mission in order to engage in those things. So that’s one of the reasons why, why we wantto have rules so there’s a better understanding of how to play this game of using social media. And, you know, i think, tony, when you play any game, we should read the rules first, right? They understand what you’re doing. My favorite game is monopoly. I don’t like other players to read. The rules just, you know, yeah, i know. And then and then, you know, i have a good eye use the rules of sort of guidelines, and then, you know, i’ll borrow a little from the bank and things like that, you know, at below and at below market rates and things like that let’s go actually into a couple of those things that you talked about borrowing money from the bank, okay? Let’s say, you know, we organize this nationwide effort and have our volunteers go out and create different events fund-raising events in, uh, in different locations throughout the country, on behalf of our organization and furthering our movement. Well, let’s say, we’ve got ten of these things going on in seven go really well, can we gene, can we taken example? I’m thinking of ah, move on dot or ge, they are frequently get their emails, attend an event in manhattan or the bronx or, you know, can somebody in well, they know that i’m in new york, so they don’t ask me to host elsewhere, but they’re certainly doing these things throughout the country. Yeah, and a lot of organizations are now using facebook and and other platforms toe mobilize their supporters throughout the country, right? Okay, so, you know, let’s, say it’s an organization that’s like move on that that’s got a nationwide presence with a lot of supporters throughout, and they’ve got some active people in different locations again, let’s say they’re ten events and seven go without a hitch and raise a lot of money for the organization. But one of the things you asked and when the things you talked about your take two is, are they registered in those states in which the volunteers there suddenly engaging in these fund-raising activities? Because if they’re not, that can get them into trouble, right? Tony, i think you know better than anybody it can is the now the volunteer yeah, they’re volunteer is acting as an agent of the of the organization at that point. Or is that? Is that a question? I think that’s a question and, you know, the more that the organization is telling the volunteer on how to organize the event and what rules should apply to the event and how the money should be collected and forwarded to the charity, i think it looks more and more like it the organization’s event and charity registration has got to be something that considered okay. Now i’m skirting jargon jail. We haven’t talked about jack in jail for weeks. I’m disappointed too many. My guests are plain talking, plain language. I don’t like that like abstruse language talks over everybody’s head. So why don’t you help define define for me? Because i said, are they an agent, but that that actually is a term of art has legal import, doesn’t it? Yeah, so generally an agent is acting on the authority and on behalf of the principal. So if i ask, skew tony and you are except that you’re going to make a donation on my behalf, another charity and i give you the money to make that donation. You’re acting as my agent, your not making your own donate donation of money. You’re donating the money on my behalf. You have certain responsibilities by taking on that relationship. I’m the agent and you’re the principal in that example, correct. So if the charity tells a volunteer agent to start fund-raising them and organizing an event on their behalf, then it’s really the charities event and the volunteers acting as their agent, which means the charity has responsibilities in that jurisdiction. Okay, okay, so the other things that you raised is, well, what if somebody just took off with the money? But if you’ve got a volunteer there but you have no staff presents there and you don’t really know this volunteer, you just sort of engaged with them online, and all of a sudden they’re holding this event for you, and they take off with the money. Now, what happened? What did you do? What? What? Showing a reasonable care did you take to make sure something like that wouldn’t happen then the awful thing is, what if somebody gets hurt at this event and right? And now in this case, it doesn’t even have to be an event that is a solicitation event like maybe we’re just we’re just rallying the troops, but we’re not asking for any money we’re not soliciting, just trying to maybe we’re all watching a video together or it’s some, you know, kind of activist activity, but but no money is changing hands. Go ahead. So something else could happen. Yeah, exactly. Right. So whether it’s just being an educational event, uh and you’ve got some people out there, they’re gathered together under the charity’s name and you know, they’ve gotten together and maybe there weren’t any steps, teo, prevent some risks or maybe it’s like a walkathon, so maybe it is a solicitation event that’s part fun solicitation, but there weren’t these risk management steps that were looked at charity. The cherry didn’t really take any step to make sure that no harm’s could be prevented that were reasonably foreseeable possibilities of that. So those are things that charities have to think about when they start to mobilize their supporters are are the supporters holding their own events? In which case do do those people after register in order to fund raise for another charity? That might be an issue as well? Or is it the charity’s own event, in which case the charity’s got to think about registration and also creating rules of the game again that have to do with holding that event to make sure that the people who attend or the people who have money get solicited are protected? I’ve got two troublemakers on the show today you’re a lot of trouble, gene, you’re asking a lot of questions? Let’s, try toe help with some answers. What? What? What do you know? Right now, we know what we have to think about, but what are we going to do should we not be hosting these events? Or is it cannes insurance help or we need we need written regulations about what volunteers khun do in other places. Where we supposed to do? Yeah, i think we’ve got to figure out first two’s event is it? Is it the charities event? Or is it the individuals that are gathering together that are raising funds on their own? And if they’re raising funds are their own? Are they going to get in trouble? And should we try to help them understand what their responsibilities are in what limitations there are for them to start raising money on their own without being under the umbrella, if you will, of the charity so rules of the game, first who’s event is it, and if the charity has authorized and encouraged it, it should try to protect those people who are going teo organize the event as well as those people were going to attend the event and having rules there instead of just guidelines makes perfect sense to me, you know, you you’re not allowed to, uh, you know, serve alcohol to minors may may seem, you know, very simplistic and obvious, but sometimes when you’ve got volunteers who you’re unaware of, you’ve not screamed, not interviewed them. Um, you’ve got to be really explicit about what’s, okay? And what’s not okay, even if you think it’s obvious. So rules of the game and rules of the event, i think there’s something that you have tohave in-kind also have some people, you know, on the charities staff that or they’re volunteers, if they’re in all volunteer organization really think about risk management of that event, what risks are involved? And should we take steps like having a first date? You know, kid available or having some people there are having a written release and waiver of liability form that all event participants find those air things to think about? And then the charity registration thing on top of that, if it’s an event of any significance, i think you have to really seriously think about that and probably by your book, tony. Okay, or have me register for you. There you go. Now what if the agent doesn’t follow the rules, then? Is the organization protected at least? Well, maybe, maybe not, but what could i have got any colonization playing the agent and sue the agent? But whoever got hurt from that if its a charity, that man is going to kind of everybody. And if the charity has a deeper pocket than the agent and if it’s, you know, just day ah, volunteer who may not have ah, a lot of that worth and the charity may have a deeper pocket, and the plaintiff lawyer will go after the charity in that case and if they’re not register stirred on top of all of this in that state, it’s going to look even worse for the charity in terms of saying, well, you know, we tried our best, and we just didn’t you didn’t weigh had rules, but but the the solicitation was illegal because the charity wasn’t registered in the state. That looks bad. Yeah, your insurance company might, even if you have insurance might say, well, you’re operating illegally. We don’t ensure that well, okay, uh, okay. So we we strayed a little bit from social media, but that’s fine, because we’re talking about events which might be propagated through social media. What about more directly, you know, the advocacy advocacy online? Sure, i mean, i guess he’s a big thing for for non-profits and i’m just a big proponent of non-profits engaging in a lot of advocacy to further their their mission, but social media channels again allow, you know, a lot of questions to rise, like whose message is being sent? You know, we’ve allowed staff members and volunteers in this kind of followship model that that alison is describing in and where everybody’s is contributing, are you going to be sending conflicting messages? And are some of those messages going toe actually be attributed to the organization and not be a communication of the type that the organization is allowed to do? Like an election eri and communication worth jargon jail right durney election hearing endorsing a political candidate which a five a one c three cannot do, but an individual can do so it gets a little grey when an individual uses an account that has the organisation’s name somehow attached, whose account is it? And is that communication? Ok, ok, but what about i mean, alison was sort of seeking feedback from from the community, i mean suppose someone uses their own account to post something on the organization’s facebook page or or points ah, address is a post on twitter to the organization that i mean that’s what the person’s using their own account? Yeah, i mean, would that be ok, though? That’s the organization is not responsible for that one, is it? Even if it’s just on their facebook pages, somebody else posted it? Well, let’s think about that. What? What if it was a really defamatory statement against somebody? Or what if it was endorsing a candidate for political office, tony and the organization has control of that facebook pages being able to delete that comment out of there, should they do it? Or should they just let it sit there? My my feeling is conservatively, you’re going to want to delete something that would be illegal if the charity had posted it itself. Obviously, you don’t want to show opinions and participation of your supporters on the facebook page, but you don’t want, you know, people the flame or defame others, and you certainly don’t want, uh, charity metoo attributed with endorsing candidates or engaging in some sort of private benefit that that benefit thie organizations, insiders. Those can all get the organization into a lot of trouble. We’ve got to go away for a couple of minutes. When we come back, jean run, and i will keep talking about the social media boundaries. And i’ve got some live listener love for the korean peninsula. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back on io haserot for soul, young son and day, john korea on your haserot. Dahna. As i said last week, especially south korea, in our thoughts, lots of saber rattling, you know, i saw i saw seventy something interviewed, and he said, the north is just like a schoolyard bully. It’s, no big deal. Andan. I saw a twenty something interviewed, who said she was nervous and pays attention to where exits are. When she’s, when she’s in buildings. So, anyway, are our thoughts are with you, south korea jane. Let’s, let’s see about okay, so let’s, continue with this online. The all these questions about online your you think that? Ah, non-profit should delete things that it wouldn’t be able to print or ah, post itself on, say, facebook or twitter? Yeah, i think it depends on the channel that you’re using. Sometimes you’ve got listservs where you’ve got a charity, that’s decided not to moderate the contact content, but put in disclaimers that might be one set of rules that applies. But with your facebook account, i think you’ve got to be be careful, especially if it’s a page that’s under the control of the charity, if their comments on there again, that would be hurtful to the charity or hurtful toe. Others that’s something that you might think about the leading, and if it’s obviously going to be in violation of of laws, you’re going to want to report it. You know, it’s against facebook zone privacy or policies as well, but to protect the organization, i think that’s really important, and that gets into what we were talking about earlier about defamatory statements, um, could also be is like harassment? Yeah, absolutely. So you’ve got to be careful, there’s. Some sometimes employees or even managers will use social media channels now to communicate with their people that report to them and got to be very, very careful that they’re not sending messages that if they communicated in real life or by email. This is not all of a sudden. Better because it’s being broadcast on social media. Aren’t there also issues around posting other people’s content? Either me either an excerpt or even just linking to it let’s talk about that? Yeah, it’s a great question. Tony gets a little bit confusing when we’re talking about copyrights on copyright protection there a lot of non-profits out there that are just accepting from other sites and thinking that as long as you attribute that that source that it’s okay, and that might not just be content written content, but that could be photos and music as well. The company presentation, you got to be careful because somebody else owns that content, and just because they’ve published it on the web doesn’t mean they’ve given free permission for anybody else to copy and use it so that can get organizations into trouble. There are some some exceptions for fair use, uh, which might involve charity or commentary or criticism on sometimes for non-profit educational purposes, but that can get really big. Ah non-profits really want to know what they’re doing when they are borrowing or accepting content from other sites or from other individuals, and then suddenly posting it on their own and again, even with attribution that that may not be sufficient. Yeah, attribution doesn’t hear it. So you’ve got to make sure that either you’ve gotten written permission to use that content or you’re using it in a fair way that would not create an infringement liability issue. Okay, but those fair, those fairways, those those are the exceptions that you were talking about in fair use and they’re pretty pretty well defined. Well, not so well defined. Well, ok, they’re specific categories. Yeah, and they’re definitely enforced in different ways in different jurisdictions. So if you just read, you know, website resource on fair use don’t rely on that, but i do encourage all non-profits if you are borrowing or accepting or commenting on other people’s content and putting it up on your own sites to make sure you understand what the rules are, so do look some good, you know, reputable web resources for that and then move on from there in california, we’ve got an organization called public counsel that’s got excellent information on copyright and fair use, and i think other other states organisations could probably look at that stuff as well, because some of the state laws will be similar and just get a general idea of what the rules are and that’s a public counsel c o u n c l e that’s, right. Okay, just a couple of minutes left before we have to go away. Gene. So if there is a violation or something you’re you’re just concerned about you talked about deleting the post, what else should we be conscious of? Well, i think the important thing, especially on a governance levels way talk about board board duties now, tony is the board to develop a social media policy for the organization, so now they think and delegate the drafting out to management, but to have a social media policy and to make sure that everybody using social media on behalf of the organization understands what the rules are and what the risks are, because those those volunteers and supporters want to do good things for the organisation for its missions, they don’t want to go get the organization into trouble, but what happens is oftentimes they just don’t know what the rules and risks are, so educating them through a policy have guidelines for sure, but also have solid rule in place that don’t allow them to. Do things that would violate the law think that’s critical, just like thirty seconds left. Jean how about apologizing on the site where the violation occurred? Sometimes i can work, some sometimes can get you into more trouble, so you know, sometimes you’re just during the pot even more tomorrow how allison’s, where then? And that can create more more divisions, so it sort of look at it on a case by case basis. Look, a senior management, the american red cross put out a tweet before that says this was a rogue treat that says, when we drink, we do it right getting withered. This was a mistake, somebody using their personal account and thought they thought they were using their personal count. Instead, the american red cross account american red cross immediately came up with an apology that said, we’ve deleted the road treat, but rest assured the red cross this sober and we’ve confiscated the keys, humor, apology and everything worked out just fine. All important points to keep in mind. Social media is not just a wild west gene takagi principle of neo, you’ll find his block at non-profit law blogged dot com, you’ll find him. On twitter at gt a kg tech gene, thank you very much. My pleasure to talk to you again next month. Got some final live listener love teo taiwan we don’t know the city, but taiwan welcome and ni hao next week a conversation with amy sample ward reduction part do we’re talking about her new book co authored book social change? Anytime everywhere we started last month and there’s more to cover about your fund-raising calendar and social media. Andi, i’m hoping for a special appearance by tim amy’s, dad hoping we can get him to call in like to have a little fun with tim sample we’re all over the social web can’t make a click without lador a spark a testa trying to say, smacking your head hard into tony martignetti non-profit radio pinterest for example, i’ve got boards for the show and my blogged my favorite board on pinterest, though that i’ve got is women leading non-profits lots of videos of female non-profits ceos like abby falik of global citizen year and marry in wright edelman of the children’s defense fund. If you can suggest some that are missing, please do our creative producer is claire. Meyerhoff sam liebowitz is our line producer, but not today. Today, the line producer is janice taylor. We don’t have an assistant producer, but we struggled through. Janis filled both roles. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with me next friday went to two p m eastern at talking alternative broadcasting, found at talking alternative dot com. Duitz found anything? That dude, in the good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get him. E-giving you could hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. Our show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what you’re born. Teo you society, politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic. I want to go what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio, dot com. Every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights, nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking.