358: Robertson v. Princeton – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guest this week:

Doug White, author of “Abusing Donor Intent: The Robertson Family’s Epic Lawsuit Against Princeton University.”

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

323: 2016 Giving Report & 2017 Forecast – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving, with professors Paul Schervish from Boston College and Doug White from Columbia University.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

274: 2015 Giving Report & 2016 Forecast – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving, with professors Paul Schervish from Boston College and Doug White from Columbia University.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

225: 2014 Fundraising Review & 2015 Forecast – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving.

Also professors Doug White from Columbia University and Paul Schervish from Boston College.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

191: Robertson v. Princeton – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guest this week:

Doug White, author of “Abusing Donor Intent: The Robertson Family’s Epic Lawsuit Against Princeton University.”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

044: A Conversation with Naomi Levine & Excellent Events That Keep Audiences Awake – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Naomi Levine, executive director of the George Heyman, Jr. Center for Philanthropy and Fundraising at New York University
Claire Meyerhoff, marketing and media specialist

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Durney welcome to the show. I’m your aptly named host tony martignetti, and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio on friday, june third. We’re always about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Last week we had passed the cup to corporations and fund accounting software. It was john hicks first guest he’s, the president and ceo of j c geever, and he shared techniques to develop your corporate sponsorship strategy and build relationships so you can ask for corporate support with credibility and confidence. And the second guest last week was scott koegler, our regular tech contributor, the editor of non-profit technology news, and he was here reviewing fund accounting software, which is a back office necessity. Those in the know recognize that proper accounting is critical to keeping your board and the irs and others who are looking over your shoulders, satisfied. He reviewed packages like fundez easy and accufund and quickbooks this week i have a conversation with naomi levin she’s, the executive director of the george h heimans junior center for philanthropy and fund-raising at new york university, and she’s, a special advisor to the president of n you, mrs levin shares her views on the roles and responsibilities of non-profits and their boards. Government oversight of non-profits and fund-raising as a profession, this was recorded last month at my show reception at the helmsley park lane hotel. You’ll find that mrs levine is out spoken and entertaining. Our second guest will be excellent events that keep audiences awake with claire meyerhoff she’s, a marketing and media specialist. You’re going to turn her expertise to savvy event programming that keeps your audience, is excited and awake between the guests. It’ll be tony’s. Take two, we’re giving away two ipads, and i’ll explain the contest. Details on tony’s. Take two. All of that is this week, after starting after this break, so stay with me, grantmaking think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving no. Things. Cubine dahna. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Oppcoll are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l, j media. Dot com. Looking to me, mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as fulfilling as possible? Then please join us, starting monday, may second, at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back, it’s, time now for my conversation with naomi levine, pre recorded last month at a reception that i hosted at the helmsley park lane hotel here in new york city. We’re goingto play this through without a commercial break, and so here is that interview. Naomi levine is the executive director of the george h heimans junior center for philanthropy and fund-raising at new york university. For twenty two years, she was in use, senior vice president for external affairs, and helped raise over two and a half billion dollars for the university. She is a graduate of columbia law school. She was previously the national executive director of the american jewish congress. Now she is special advisor to the president of n u, and she chairs the board of the edgar bronfman center for jewish student life and the tab center for israel studies. Please join me in welcoming mrs naomi levine. Mrs levine, what do you see as the the non-profit role for our society? Let me put this in a kind of perspective that i always use. I don’t think that most people in our society recognized the importance of the non-profit world in our civil society, if you close your eyes for one minute and look at the skyline of new york city, do you hear me? Yeah, you will see that if you took away lincoln center, the hospitals, and why you, fordham, columbia and all of the other universities, medical centers, cultural centers, theatres, dance a group, you will see that this would be a very different society, and most people really don’t think about that when they think of the way we all run. They think a government, they think of the corporate sector, and they don’t think of the non-profits but why is that? That that means non-profits are not fulfilling their work in spreading their the message of their good works? I mean, do you think the blame falls on the non-profits for people not being aware, i think i would suspect so let me lead into that as we progress in our conversation. Because the truth is i’m not really sure i know that most people don’t realize it and what they don’t realise. Moore is not one of those organizations could exist without fund-raising they require financial support, and yet do you know a shingle mother who will say to their child, you know, dear, when you grow up, i want you to be a fundraiser. Nobody says that my own mother, my own mother in the last years of her life, when she was living at a place called cat a house in the bronx, i would come to visit her and she’d say to me now remember, when we go down for lunk, if someone asks you what you do for a living, tell them you’re a lawyer, not a fundraiser. She was embarrassed at her law review daughter was raising money. People think of it as selling cookies for the girl scouts, and you ask me why it is that i must tell you i’m not sure, but one thing i am sure if you let me adjustment, just put that on the table is that unless fund-raising is viewed as a profession a legitimate profession, that is talk. Within a university, not within all kinds of organizations that provide courses, but within the university, it never will be given the kind of status that it deserves. Dentistry at one point was nothing. You went to an apprentice, yet you learnt how to pull a tooth. That was the end. Lawyers like john adams. If you read his book, you know, he was an apprentice in a law office. But once causes were given within universities and got to stamp a university academical provable, they became professions. And the reason i created the heimans center is that i really want to see people take courses, learn and make this area a profession that even my mother would be proud off. So that’s hard to do. Let me tell you and you make a very good point that i don’t know any fundraisers who? It’s. For whom? It’s. The first career? No, no, no. In my office, we had a big staff and we had people who were from every discipline around. They were from journalism, from archaeology, from everything in the world. Nobody studied. And yet if you think about it, i know that i learned on our no. Doremus amount during those twenty five years and every time i prepare for a class, i learned more, i confess to you, i never spent time with my staff talking about ethics. What did we talk about? We talked about what? Your goal, how much money where’s the money, etcetera. Yet when i started to prepare the course on ethics and red doug white’s book on charities on trial and a few other things, i said, you know, that’s, a very important area, and i should learn about it, because if you don’t know the law and you don’t know the ethical component and you don’t know board governance and fiduciary relationship, you’re going to get trouble that’s perfect. And doug white was a guest on my show, talking about his book about ethics, but so now we’re talking about the fundraiser and fund raisers, and you’ve just made a great transition. How about the role of the trustees? What? What are they? Trustees? They’re not really fully aware of their roles, don’t you think with respect to the organization, trustees are also fund-raising if you sit on a board because it’s a nice, prestigious thing to do and it looks good in your obituary in the times, it is a wrong reason to be on a board boards have responsibility. They have the responsibility to keep their organization financially shaky. Sure, that means board members have to be fundraisers also, you know, larry tisch usedto have he was the chairman of gnu during the time that i was vice president, and he had a very simple and crash way. I assume of running his board. He used to say to me, look, we’re not harvey, we’re not princeton. When i put someone on the board, they not only have to be dedicated, decent people committed toe hyre read, but they have tai run my board by the three g’s that people have to give money, they’re not a big amount, but gives something to show their commitment so they have to help get money. And if they can’t do that, they should get off the board because boards have responsibilities. And when you talk about a boardmember they have to be, they have to understand their responsibilities fiduciary, legal, come to meetings to read an order to report readable what your report? There are a whole list of things. If this was a class that i could list for you, that boards have to do so. The relationship between the fundraiser and a boardmember is really a very close one. What was number three? You said he had three, three, three requirements. Get money where you get off the moca or get off the board. That was number three, not in a harsh way. I’m not suggesting you tell your board that i’m telling you, you have to try to persuade them to give and then had people onto your board that will set an example. I never suggested minto fund-raising they come in and get rid of that board members, you’ll be in trouble. On the other hand, you have tohave board training of the sharp pains. Actually, the corporation board i have been instructed to do that is to close are instructed to give bored training, training aboard and what their responsibilities are. Doug and i and ruth ellen reuben is here. We go around to different boards were invited to talk to them about their obligations under the law. Federal law. State law. I venture to say if i went around this room today and most of your fundraisers, air sit on board. You would not know a ll the laws that are involved in fund-raising state and federal. I learned that on lee when i started to teach i did know i know that when i was raising money don’t you think the trend also is that this is only gonna get worse at the booth state and federal level? That oversight from those levels of government is going to just increase among among non-profits i don’t like the fact that you used the word worse in my book, i would say that’s better, more, more. I know you advocate for even greater oversight. I know you do far more oversight and far more regulation. It is an area that everybody thinks so. We don’t have to regulate the nun. Profits are all very good people. The red crossed of good things university how dare we suggest that they be regulated more. Let me tell you that there is a cz much mismanagement, excessive salaries, all kinds of conflict of interest area occur in the nonprofit world that a car in a profit within the nonprofit sector fights your advocacy of deeper oversight. The non-profit schecter no it’s, not eager tohave. More regulation. I will confess to you on my staff in french. No, this for seven years i have gone up to albany fighting for one lousy bill. One bill that would say that if you’re hired as a professional fundraiser, you should take one course in the course of your entire career in law, ethics and board governance. I think you should do that. And every year it gets through the senate and assembly up in albany and then the non-profits come up and they argue against it in their mind. It’s a slippery slope. You’re going to start regulating your going to stock with more rules. We don’t want that. And the governance who don’t want to start up with such good organizations as the heart association of the red cross they vito and it drives me insane. Ken berger is going to be a guest on my show in in july. I think. It’s a july first show, the executive director of charity navigator. What you see is the role of charity navigator and similar rankings ratings of charities. Well, i think that anything that helps a donor get on understanding. Of an organisation is a good thing. I’m not in a position to discuss the details of those organization, but i know if their organizations around that help it donor-centric steam or been dealing more accountability, all those words and now on the table, when i started in fund-raising i’m a very old person of eighty eight years, so i have lived through different parts and different segments off fund-raising the fund-raising world, and in the beginning, you never heard such words. I never heard such words, but now you hear it more and more. So what canonizations like that play a role onda, of course, it’s controversial because the role that they play helps define what people decide to look at. And of course, donors now are more into is it in looking at outcomes, and that becomes very difficult. Teo measure donors are also interested in percentage of budget that goes to program versus administration, but for some charities, it could be very legitimate toe have a very high percentage going to administration because they’re doing things in, but if they’re going abroad and doing things on the ground in, you know, in other continents, i have always been very conservative, i believe that when a person gives money not more than thirty five percent maximum should go for overhead and the russian gulf of the program. Now there may be exceptions, and you may be right, but by and large, i think that people should feel comfortable in knowing that the book of their money goes to the project that they want to support. Now there are exceptions, and i think that when you sit down with the donor like we used to have to sit down with someone who gave us two million dollars for a chair, we had to explain that some of that would go for the over head of that school, you’ll have to be able to explain it, but we never never spent mohr than thirty five cents of thirty five percent that was maximum mr tisch required even less on you’ll have to be very open and honest about that thie audience for the show is small and midsize non-profits the tagline is big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, what would you like to leave small and midsize charities? With what message? So small shops the lessons are not different, because how you raise money for a big organization and how you raise a trish more fundamentally are not different when we teach courses in our heimans center way, my approach is that the principles of generic and they involve developing relationships if you know your fund-raising you know that last year, out of the three hundred three billion dollars it was raised about eighty three percent when you include request come from individuals and individuals will give to small groups, and i’ll give to big groups, so the rules on how you raise that money, the art of the ass is the same in a little group, you use the same technique to get twenty five dollars, as you will use to get a million dollars, it is developing a relationship, knowing howto ask knowing how to divide your mission statement, knowing the process and the rules and fund-raising knowing what you’re bored should do and that should be and knowing the ethical issues, whether you’re dealing with a little group or a big road, which harder with a little good bye don’t knock it you also, perhaps will you social medium or with a little girl? I’m not sure i’m no expert on social media we brought on to our staff of the heimans center last year marchenese vanik she’s, an expert, and she has tried to persuade me that things like facebook and twitter and all that stuff have some value. I am totally illiterate there, but i respect the fact that the coming generations will use it more, particularly the small organizations, and i tell the small organizations, don’t ignore your financial status. Be sure if you can’t afford an audit, at least have very strict rules on how your money is handled. Doug white’s book has a whole list of cases in which organizations big and small got into terrible trouble because they weren’t careful and how they handle their finances. And that is true in little groups as well as bigger pond. That doug white book is charity on trial, but that but that goes back to the trustees, relationship and trustees obligations even for us, even for a small shop, there’s a board and maybe a board of only three or four people, but they have the obligation to be aware of the things that you’re talking about under the law. Whether you’re a big organization or a little, the charity’s bureau, which is the hand of the attorney general in the state of new york, will look atyou and look atyou carefully and don’t make mistake. I’m not here selling doug’s book i couldn’t give any i’m not interested in that. The only reason i pointed out is that it has in it the cases that are very imp fortune for you to understand, and you have to know all the people that got in trouble. Let me give you one example. The american red cross during the nine eleven tragedy, they got in a lot of money and they used a whole bunch of it for the purpose that nine eleven required. They had a little bit of money left over the director of the red cross, one of the most terrific people in the field use that money for the blood drive. She didn’t put it in her pocket, she was fired. Why was she fired? Because the law says if i take money from you for a and i use it for b you’re wrong. I have to use that money for a unless i write to you and i say to you, do you mind if i use it, etcetera? So they’re a little things like that that if you were a fundraiser in this room or a boardmember you have to be very sensitive to whether you’re a little group or a big group, we have just a minute or two left. What is it that concerns you most about the charitable sector over the next couple of years? One to two years? Where? What do you think about most what keeps you up at night? Xero well, i think that competition is very it’s going even increase and the government are cutting back drastically and so on the shoulders of the non-profits we have to provide for the help that the poor need, the abused women are the st joseph’s, full kitchens and all the social services that keep our society going. There’s a book that somebody called claire got eonni road that has wonderful chapters on how capitalism could not exist in this country, unregulated capitalism without the help of the non-profits we provide the helpful the people that fall between the cracks in our society and i worry that with the government cutting back and the competition the way it is it’s going to be hard and hard and harder also. Europe, which never was here before, is now facing the situation where their governments are cutting back. They never had a non-profit sector, they relied entirely on government support. Every university in europe is supported by the government. Oxford cambridge is so bone, everyone now ox it hasn’t office in new york, cambridge has an office in new york and everyone overseas we have more people in our class is now trying tto learn fund-raising from europe, asia, china every place that’s going to give you a great deal of competition and so i don’t spend nights worrying about it. I am certainly concerned about it and i would hope find may end that i’m too old to see the end of it. But i would like to see fund-raising fundraisers, given the recognition that they deserve, and each of you in this room have that obligation. I could be proud of what you’re doing to make certain that when you work in any agency, people know that without you, that agency is going to close that this is a dignified profession, and you have to carry that flag. Naomi levine is the executive director of the george heimans center junior junior center for philanthropy and fund-raising at new york university. Thank you very much, mrs living. Do we have time for where i think you have time for maybe just one or two is your question? Go ahead. Carol weaver, please just shout it out. I’ll repeat it. Go ahead, have a great fan of what you think about. It fundrasing coming together to create a voting bloc we are. Your economy. As i’m told, hyre grayce counting together issues. We could be a voice in albany for your force, which, of course, i’m very. And for other things, like maybe creating a bank. Non-profits jim, i think it’s the syrian say once you make a finger together, you make of this. If we have concerns go ross the industry, could we not consider and i can’t think of a better well, but there are s o the question is generally about how the non-profit sector could organize to be a more cohesive voting bloc now, but their organization, like independent sector, you know, so there’s that what else would you like to sell? Well, i can say is most of those organizations are run by their executives, as most organizations are in the average member plays a very minimal role in your right. If the average member played a bigger role and then insistent, i’m sure nothing. Then you would have more effective involvement in albany and other places, but you have the organizations around there’s, a million of them it’s just sort of my book there, not doing anything, uh, along the lines. And i think that should be done. Yeah. Does independent sector is that one of the groups that opposes broader on government oversight? So nobody should fortuny chelation hearts of then that would be a yes, doug white does, even though you panned his book, doug white support, sir, we’re gonna have dug it up for rebuttal after this. Is there another? Is there one more question way have time before mrs levin leaves. All right, please join me in thanking her again. Naomi living. That’s my interview with naomi levine, recorded last month at the reception that i hosted for the show at the helmsley park lane hotel. We take a break now and after the break. It’s, tony’s, take two, and then we’ll return. After that, with claire meyerhoff talking about excellent events to keep your audience is awake. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you love movies, then join me and share your pains about them on the radio. This is mike, a movie fan like you, starting may tenth. Join me every tuesday night at six pm for my new show movie time on talking alternative dot com. Call me live or email me at movie time radio. At gmail dot com. We’ll talk about all the blockbusters whose the best director and which movies air overrated, among many other topics. Join me for movie time. Tuesdays at six on talking alternative dot com. Duitz looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your car relationship as fulfilling as possible? Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile market. Their motto is, we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Talking. No. Welcome back, it’s, time for today’s edition of tony’s take two, i’m giving away two ipads to fans of the show and you can get details about this contest on my blog’s at m p g a d v dot com the first of the two is going to the first three hundred and thirteen people who liked the show that was those were the people who liked it before a certain date. It was may twenty third when we announced the beginning of the contest, so those three hundred thirteen people are automatically entered in the first drawing and that’s my way of saying thanks for being one of our early fans. If you want one of the first three hundred thirteen, then you can still win because we’re giving away the second ipad and the details of how tow enter the contest if you’re not already in from the first three thirteen, asai said, is on my blogged m p g a d v dot com. The contest drawing is going to be next thursday. Sorry. Next friday, june tenth, that’s at the association for fund-raising professionals new york city chapter there event is fund-raising day and as i’ve said previously on the show, we are a media sponsor for fund-raising day we’re going to be on the exhibit floor, i’ll be doing interviews for future broadcasts on this show of the interviewing, the seminar speakers or as many of them as we can schedule. There are something like seventy five or eighty seminar speakers can’t do them all in an eight hour day, but we’re gonna get a bunch of them and at the end of that day i’ll be drawing the two winners for the ipads. So join the contest, learning about it on the blogged and we’ll be making those. I’ll be doing those drawings on friday, june tenth at fund-raising day next friday, that is tony’s take two for friday, june third. Now i have a pre recorded discussion with claire meyerhoff about smart event planning howto program events to keep your audience is engaged and awake here’s that interview? I’m now joined by claire meyerhoff. Claire is a marketing specialist for non-profits we’re going to be talking about your five minute program, super streamlined events that keep your audiences informed, engaged and awake. Clare is a marketing specialist who works with fundraisers and nonprofit organizations she’s, a former broadcast journalist with lots of acronym big acronyms, cbs radio, x m and cnn and during those stints she covered lots of events either covered or attended hundreds of non-profit events, she combines that experience with her production skills to help non-profits design and execute programs that are entertaining, informative and concise. And we’re going to talking a lot about concise because the topic is your five minute program. I’m very glad that claire’s work brings her to the show today. Claire, welcome. Thanks, tony, thanks so much for having me, because this is a great forum to share with the non-profit audience about events which are so so important. Yes, i’m pleased to have you back clears a repeat guest and also the creative producer for tony martignetti non-profit radio clear, i think organizations don’t pay enough attention to planning their their events, their program. What advice do you have? Well, i think that in my in my little a world where i where i come up with little acronyms for things, the little names for things i’ve just come up with this is i was waiting to come on and that’s that i think the event and specifically the program portion of the event is the final frontier of fund-raising you could see that you can see why claire is the creative producer of this show, she’s waiting on hold to join the show and she comes up with final frontier fund-raising please go ahead. Elaborate. Sorry, it’s it’s, the final frontier of fund-raising is what’s what’s. The first step of fund-raising is just is just the ask the simple. Ask, you know your son is raising money for jump rope for hard, and he goes to the next door neighbor, and says, would you support me and that’s an easy one, right? Because that’s the neighbour, and not for very much money so that’s that’s a pretty easy ask so that’s, sort of the first frontier of fund-raising and then we go, you know, down the line for very sophisticated asked, and even, you know, planned getting and thank you she she mentions plan giving say so dear to my heart. Yes, the more sophisticated you know that’s sort of a deep frontier of fund-raising it’s a long time before you get that donor to the point where they’re goingto do a bequest a charitable gift, a new innovation so there’s, all these different levels of the ask and fund-raising and when you put on a fundraising event, that is the time of year where you’re celebrating your organization, you’re having fun with it. You’re inviting all these different people to come. They bought a ticket for thirty dollars, seventy five dollars, one hundred fifty dollars, six hundred dollars, depending on where you are and how fancy your event is. So now these people have come and they’re all dressed up spent a lot of time on the food and the orders and the decorations and we have balloons or should we have four kids? And what should the place look like? Should we have strolling singers and acrobats running around our event hall? So it’s it’s very events are very labor intensive. Start my clear greenlee labor intensive and then when i found from working with non profit organisations, is that the program part of the event is almost an afterthought. It’s something that happens maybe the week before or even i’ve seen it the day before where they say okay, well, who’s going to get up and speak and what? Are we going to say and who’s going to say what? And the program is really one of the most is more important than the little shrimp order bs that you serve? Or if you’re going to have caviar or little tiny hot dogs? It’s much more important what you actually say to your donor’s while you’re up, they’re on a stage and you have their undivided, hopefully attention. So that’s, why it’s so very important this is an opportunity for you to speak to donors, whether they’re long time dedicated donors or they are that donor’s guest at the event. So let’s say you have someone they’ve been coming to your event for ten years, and they are very good supporters. They’re in your hair in your special circle, they give you twenty, five hundred dollars a year and they are very important donors to you, and they have brought their friend, their neighbor, who they would like to introduce to your organization. So this is your chance to speak can not only your dedicated donors, but also your your new donors, your potential donors, potential friends of your organization so it’s really, really important? It’s almost more important to me than just about anything else, except perhaps the auction if you’re going to have an auction. Okay, so that’s really important. So so clearly now the program of those people you are on stage, you’re on the air, you know, let’s say your, you know, a newscaster, and you have five minutes or ten minutes to talk to your audience. What do you tell them? You tell them the most important news of the day or things that you think your particular audience is interested in learning about so that they don’t shut you off or turn you off. So think about your guests as viewers that are watching your little show about your organization, and so you’re recommending claire the five the five minute programmes you want, you want the program to be more important than whether the bunting matches the flowers clearly and you have the really the five minute program tell us about what buy-in organization should be doing at this gala in just five minutes. Well, there’s, a lot that you could do in five minutes and you have these people and they’re usually sitting there right there, the round tables in this big room at the d’hotel and they’re sitting there. And what i like to say is that your guess? Our donors and guests and friends, they’re not hostages, they’re not a hostage for the next five minutes ten minutes a half hour to your speakers and your program, they’re your guests and they could just get up and leave, but they’re much, much too polite to do that. So your goal is to keep them engaged and keep them informed and keep them entertained. And i think that that’s the perfect way say it and so what’s, your first step is you want to, you know, welcome that you want to greet them. That’s easy to do, you don’t have to say a whole lot to greet them. You don’t have to go on and on with the greeting. You just simply you know, thank everybody for being there. So that’s, the most important part is to thank everyone several times. Justus, you would thank a donor several different ways of very you know of a good donor. You would thank um, several different ways you’d call them you send them a note? You didn’t fight them to a little event. You thank them in a lot of different ways, whereas whereas we’re as we’re developing the program, who should be the key speaker who should be the first one up to say thank you? Well, the first one option to say thank you should be really quote the host of the event, whoever that person is that was kind of the most important person in bringing all these people together. So let’s just say this particular year you have a local person who’s very well loved. Maybe you have the local weathercaster from the tv station whose daughter has really benefited from your after school program that you’ve been running for years, and she’s decided this year to step up from doing something kind of simple to being the chair of the event. So let’s, just say she has been very, you know, she’s been key in planning this event and that’s why people are there, she should be the person that should get up and thank everybody, not the executive director of the organization, so it should be that key person that people are going toe really appreciate them getting up and saying thank you, so think, really think about and not just go to the default like, oh, we should have, you know, our event chair. Or we should have our executive director get up and speak so it could be, you know, anybody that you think is that person that everybody that’s in the room would be interested in having them thank them. So come up, come up with who that person is, and and that person kind of plays the role of the host and that is a simple little roll of just keeping keeping things moving along because it is a little program it’s a little show, just like when you watch jay leno, he is the host. He keeps the show moving along. Yes, the band plays. Yes, the guests come on and talk. Yes, there’s. Some other there’s a singer performing or something like that that jay leno was the host that he keeps things moving, so appoint someone the host i can think of another host isn’t isn’t there another host you might like to use as an example? Most of ah, a radio show, perhaps, who keeps things moving along and has guests and they come in and is there possibly? Another example besides jay leno. Oh, what a coincidence. Oh, thanks, carrie grayce non-profit radio show on the planet. As far as i know, i didn’t ask you to say that part. Thank tony keep things moving along and he decides what the show is going to be like, and he can keep things moving along and makes people feel welcome. And most importantly, tony martignetti is a radio host. What he wants to do is keep people entertained and engaged and informed and staying on. Dh claire, i have to tell you, just clear to my role we just have about ninety seconds before the break and you had just explained who the the first guests should be. The main host should be thanking everybody in just a ninety seconds til we have before a break what should come after that person in your five minute program? Well, in my five minute program, i could probably do that. I’ll run the whole program down for you in ninety seconds, and i’ll do it head into the brakes. So your first thing is someone greet, greet the crowd. The next thing is they tell them why they’re they’re so tell them something important about what’s going on right now that they might not know about. So you know you’re here because because this year we’re launching this major endeavor where we wantto, you know, we serve fifteen schools now, and by this time next year we hope to be in every school in the county and that that takes a lot to do that. So tell them something very important give them some news about why they’re there and why it’s important then the next thing that you khun dio is is simply give someone a gift and that’s my favorite way tio, to build a program around the gift. So say it’s an after school program and you have a teacher in the program who’s really done fantastically she’s done wonderfully. And her dream is tio, you know, take the kids, ice skating or something and do these different things for the kids. But she needs a certain amount of money to do it that’s outside of the normal budget. So this is a great way to honor this person. Plus explain a little bit more about your mission so you can say, you know, we have our guest. Of honor tonight is, you know, mary katherine stewart, and she is the director of such a program and she’s been here for twenty years and she’s done extraordinary work and we would like to say thank you to her tonight. Then she comes up and you say, and we have a gift for you, mary, catherine and it’s, something that she doesn’t know about. You know, we know that you’ve been dying to take the kids to the brand new skating rink, so here is a gift certificate from the skating rink. They’ve agreed to do this and that and the other thing, and claire, we have to leave it there. We have to leave it there. We’re gonna take a break and we’ll pick it up after giving a gift. This’s, you didn’t run a few more than ninety seconds. My guest is clear meyerhoff taking over the show she’s, a marketing specialist for non-profits. Please stay with us getting anything, ending the ending you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving duitz cubine dahna. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Buy-in are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as fulfilling as possible? Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning morning, alison. As a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Dahna welcome back. We’re in the midst of the five minute program with my guest, claire meyerhoff of marketing specialist for non-profits and claire, we were so far have covered the greeting, why we’re gathered, give a gift what are the other elements? Just briefly of your five minute program and they will dive into a little detail? Well, the other elements of the five minute program are basically what you feel like you absolutely have to include so that’s where, you know, you’ve decided that well, we have our board chair is retiring this year. We need to honor him or we have a new director. We need to have him speak. He has to speak. If he doesn’t speak, you know the world will collapse. And that’s that’s what’s really important with the program is to completely tryto limit the number of people that are getting up in speaking. And then the next challenge is to limit the amount of time that they are speaking. So if you could give people something to do rather than just give them this open ended, we would like you to speak that’s your first step in in controlling on and that’s something. To do was probably give a gift. Let’s, let’s, explore that. There are two things i definitely want to dive into e-giving the gift and sharing your timeline, but let’s talk e-giving the gift. What do you mean by that? Well, in the giving the gift is this is a way for you to do it numerous things with one simple gesture, one simple action, and that is you can have the, you know, the giver of the gift could be an important person. So let’s, just say you have a new executive director and it’s important to introduce him to your crowd, but you don’t really want him to speak for ten minutes and give his resume and his vision for the future because you’re going to bore your audience with that. Yes, so instead you can have your new executive director give that gift to the woman that has done a great job for your after school program for the last twenty years. So this is where you if you have an honoree, in other words, you’re saying this is this would be a great opportunity to honor that honoree by having that the special person give a gift to the honoree is that what you’re talking about? Exactly? It gives everybody like something to do, as opposed to just an open end, and we would like you to speak or we’re going to, you know, give you this award, so please get up and speak for a half an hour, and boris altum also tears. So if you have this honoree that’s, a way to introduce them, so you let’s just say it’s, the new executive director, and and she has come from, you know, let’s, just say you’re in st louis and she’s come from new york city, and she used to run some big organization, and now she’s with you and and you want to let people know that so that you introduce her? You say we’d like to introduce our very new executive director she’s part of all our exciting plans for the future and she’s come from new york and and she’s done this and she’s done that and it’s a better way should do it rather than have the person talk about the selves, because when people talk about themselves, it’s one of two things it’s either they you know, go on. And on and on to tell you how great they are or their humble like hopefully most people are, and they don’t like talking about themselves. A lot of people have said to be really don’t like talking about myself, so let someone else do it. And in this case, it’s your host of your event so they could say we have our new executive director. I’d like you to introduce her to you, she’s come from new york where she ran this, that and the other thing, and we’re so excited to have you we could not possibly dream of ever having a wonderful person like this here in st louis helping our organization. And we’re gonna we’re gonna put her right to work by announcing who our honoree is this year. So then your your first honoree, really? Your new executive director gets up and then they know all they have to do is say, oh, thanks saying that night so happy to be here in st louis. I love it here already and there’s so many great people here, and i’m going to tell you about one of them right now. And that’s mary katherine stewart who? Is our executive, you know, our director of our programs and is doing it for twenty years done such a great job, we have a gift for you, it’s exciting, you know, trip, you can take your kids on whatever it is you give her, and then the executive director gives the gift to your other honored person. Now all your other honored person has to do is say thank you for the gift you have to say anything else and look at the things you’ve done now in a very short period of time for your audience, your donors, you’re dedicated donors and your potential donors, your new friends, they see that you have great people working for you. They see that you’re very generous and that you have your act together, that you went out and got a gift for this person, that you could afford to do that, that you’re not dying in this economy, like so many people are cutting back, you actually went out and got a gift for this person. Perhaps the gift has something to do with another sponsor. So in this case, i’ve come up with this skating rink where thie person the honoree is going to take her kids from her program, and so now that skate rink gets a nice big thank you in front of the whole crowd of people. So you’ve now brought in another spot, sir, and you’ve, you’ve highlighted somebody else. We have a right and a small amount of time. Thank you. And you’ve also explained a little bit more about your mission e-giving should have something to do with way have to move on to the next topic i want you to share your ideas on, and that is you alluded to it the value of the timeline, but we just have about thirty seconds. Claire what’s what’s the value of the timeline and who should we be sharing it with? Well, a value of the timeline is that it keeps everybody on schedule, so someone needs to be appointed a producer of an event, and that should be someone with experience doing something like that. They don’t have to be a professional producer, but just someone that knows how to make the trains run on time and everybody knows somebody like that and you say we have five minutes. How are we going? To fill that up and they come, they just do a little run down timeline. What happened? You know, from the you know, the first minutes of the second minute, second minute of the third, fourth, fifth boom and if you try to make it five minutes on paper in reality it might be about ten minutes long. We have to wait. We have to stop there. I’m sure there’s also value in sharing that timeline with the people who are going to speak so that they see you speak for one minute you’re on for two minutes and all of this adds up to your five minute program super streamlined events. My guest has been clear meyerhoff marketing specialist for non-profits you can contact claire through my for the facebook page on the website because she’s, the creative producer, and that’s the way to reach her if you’d like more information on her five minute program. That was my pre recorded interview with clear meyerhoff, who has so many good ideas that she was challenging my own timeline for this show that week. I want to thank naomi levine for being a special guest at the shows reception last month and being the guest on today’s show and also clear meyerhoff next week is going to be a show from the archive, but i don’t know which one, so when i make that decision, the best way for you to hear about it is to keep up with what’s coming up and sign up for our insider email alerts. You could do that on the facebook page, just the name of the show on facebook dot com and you can sign up there to get weekly alerts and you’ll be the first to know what next week’s show is going to be. Well, you’ll be second, i’ll be first, then we’ll be third first to me, then i tell sam liebowitz the producer he has to know and then he’ll bu but it’s early, you’re still number three is not bad, its much quicker than waiting until next friday to find out much, much quicker what the show is always on itunes you khun subscribe. Listen, any time on the device of your choice, you’ll find our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net the creative producer of the show is claire meyerhoff and the show’s line producer as well, as the owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz on our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. Next week, we will be at the a f p fund-raising day conference live doing. I’ll be doing live interviews for later broadcast, so that’s, why next week will be a re broadcast, and then after that, you’ll hear the interviews that i’ll be doing next friday. I hope you’ll be with me next friday, one o’clock eastern here on talking alternative dot com. Durney duitz e-giving thing to do. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Duitz things. You could are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Do you love movies, then join me and share your opinions about them on the radio. This is mike, a movie fan like you, starting made tenth. Join me every tuesday night at six pm for my new show movie time on talking alternative dot com. Call me live or email me at movie time radio. At gmail dot com. We’ll talk about all the blockbusters whose the best director and which movies air overrated, among many other topics. Join me for movie time. Tuesdays at six on talking alternative dot com. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing or mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? 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024: Ethics with Doug White – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week are:

Doug White, author, “The Nonprofit Challenge: Integrating Ethics Into the Purpose and Promise of Our Nation’s Charities”
Academic Director of George H. Heyman, Jr. Center for Philanthropy and Fundraising at New York University

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent? Do you feel that your non-profit is left out of the media out of conversations with consultants? You have a home here at tony martignetti non-profit radio, maybe call. Last week, we had the bank of america merrill lynch high net worth study, and my guest was the bank’s study expert claire costello, also last week, enviable e newsletters with the newsletter editor and our show’s technology contributor, scott kegel er, that was last week this week, it’s ethics our i’m really excited, very pleased. My guest is doug white, and doug is the author of the non-profit challenge integrating ethics into the purpose and promise of our nations. Charities that’s available at amazon dot com doug is with me live in the studio to talk about ethics and the role and the potential of non-profits in our culture on tony’s take two at thirty two minutes after the hour, i’m going to talk about sexism in the workplace based on my most recent blawg post and also give you ah, on ira e-giving reminder, there is an opportunity for two thousand ten remaining. For the rest of this month, we’ll talk about that on tony’s. Take two. After this break, i’ll be joined by professor doug white, and we’re going to be talking about ethics. Stay with us, co-branding think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding. Duitz you’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get in. Nothing. You could. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio my guest this hour is doug white. Doug is the academic director of new york university’s heimans center for philanthropy and fund-raising, where he also teaches ethics based fund-raising and board governance he’s, also a senior governance consultant for board source. His other books are charity on trial, published by barricade books and the art of planned giving published by wiley. And i’m very pleased that his most recent book, the non-profit challenge, brings him to the studio today. Doug welcome. Thank you, it’s good to be here. The purpose and promise of non-profits our nations, charities. What was the purpose of your book? Maybe it’s a stunning preface, but i’d like to say that i think the charities have the most promise in terms of acting well in our society. They also have the most promise in terms of leading society. At the same time, i think there are a lot of ethical issues and organizational issues, board issues and so forth that impair charitable organizations when they are trying to do the right thing, but oftentimes don’t so they have a large mandate, i think, and this is just my own. Personal feelings that charities are the ethical sector of society, charities were designed primarily and pretty much solely to do good mor so then government or business, the other two sectors now, that doesn’t mean they’re not ethical. That doesn’t mean they’re not good, but we wouldn’t be around if it weren’t for that goodness component, and we really need to take that more seriously than we do let’s start with a common understanding of ethics. What? What is your definition of ethics? Well, it’s, funny, you ask that question because i’m asked that all the time in my classes, and i have to take pains because a lot of the times when i talk about ethics, people will want to sit in the back of the room and they think they’re going to get yelled at because they’re not ethical or they’re not making the right decisions or they’re just not good people and that’s really not how i look at ethics, ethics is really a process, not a result. If tony, you and i can actually say to each other that two men or two people can disagree to good, people can disagree, and we can’t really mean that because we get angry with each other, if we disagree, then we’re really not giving that any credence. What we really need to do is understand each other’s values the process by which we come to an understanding, and if the purpose of ethics were to find agreement, we would have no success whatsoever. The purpose behind ethics is the decision making process it for me anyway, the decision making process that goes into an exploration of our values and waiting those values and so forth, and then coming up with a reason. And i would call it an ethical decision that may be different from yours. After having gone through that same process, i would have to respect that, and you’d have to respect my process and that’s part of that’s an an essential part of the ethical making ethical decision making process respect. And you say in the book that ethics permeates everything. I i stand by that, yes, it permeates everything now doesn’t permeate what you’re gonna have for dinner tonight. That kind of ah decision no s ow when i say everything, i mean everything important, but anything of significance oftentimes involves values, anything that involves values might be bringing up issues that were going to make us defer, and in the process of that, we’re gonna have a problem if we dont have respect, if we don’t look at it as an ethical decision making process and but even in what i do choose to have for dinner or how i feed myself generally, there can very well be value based ethical based decision making in that as part of my my thought process, right? Thank you. You’re so right about that. I was thinking of it, more of let’s say a spouse and husband and wife are going to decide what to have for dinner. That doesn’t matter to anybody else, but what you’re actually pointing out here is that it doesn’t matter if you’re thinking of being if you don’t like meat or something like that on ah larger ethical basis, absolutely it could very well have an impact on that decision again. The subtitle to your book you know the purpose and promise of our nations charities do you think that we have just a minute, a half or so before break? Do you think our nation’s non-profits have lost the public trust. Um, i don’t think they’ve lost it. I think that the public trust is ah, very strong commodity in our country, and we’re very fortunate to have that trust. I think there are people in the united states who are becoming more, they’re becoming more interested in the way charity’s operate. And because charity’s air having showing so much more force in society, the questions are more important than their more more, they’re louder. And so, my my concern is that charities they haven’t so much lost, the trust of the public is they need to. I think i have a better understanding of what that trust means and to respond to it, and the questions being asked are deeper and more insightful. Absolutely, yes, we’re going to take a break. My guest is professor doug white, author of the non-profit challenge. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with me, talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w dot mind over matter. N y c dot com you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever welcome back to the show, of course. My guest, professor doug white, author of the non-profit challenge. Integrating ethics into the purpose and promise of our nations. Charities don’t ask about the tv show the philanthropist. You talk about a little in the book. Why do you think that failed so stunningly? Well, it certainly had nothing to do with philanthropy that’s, for sure, i think it failed because it was so shallow, and this is one of the problems when we talk about philanthropy and certainly with ethics, is that there’s a way of telling a story and then there’s a way of being in the moment of the actual job, and sometimes when you tell the story and then it goes through several rewrites and several editors network, a major network like nbc, you’re going to lose a lot of the you’re going to lose a lot of the effort. So my feeling is that if you ask, it just became a shallow piece of nothingness. Yeah, i didn’t see much philanthropy in the in the siri’s no, there wasn’t, and this is one of the problems with the mass media. There is such a delusion of the important aspects of things in every area, and this is certainly true in philanthropy to and certainly an ethics that when you get so diluted there’s, no story left except for the one bank stuff that the producers think will be interesting what’s your sense of of why people give to our non-profit sector either time or money or or their talent, i really do think there’s a sense of giving to help other people. I really do believe that some people call that altruism. If you look at the definition of altruism in the dictionary, it couldn’t be because altruism says you cannot have any personal benefit back. And i think a good feeling from having done what you have done is a benefits. So i think in a way, there’s, no way we can be truly altruistic. But i do believe we as humans haven’t have ah, a way to think about other people and their tragedies. Three weeks ago, i would have mentioned haiti as one of the examples. Today i can talk about tucson and the outpouring of of of this indescribable feeling of wanting to reach out and make the world a better place for the people who are suffering. I think that’s a big part of it. I think that’s the major part of some people, will say that taxes play a large rule. I’ve talked to enough accountants and attorneys. You might get that impression, but you mentioned a high net worth study, they think. Exactly the tax tax motivations always low, always low, even among the people. For whom it’s most important it’s still not that important. So there i think that it is that and i don’t think it’s an american characteristic, a lot of people say, isn’t the united states the most generous country in the world and that’s true, because we give a lot of money and so forth. But i don’t think that it’s ah it’s bounded by national borders. I feel like there are people around the world that we don’t have a monopoly on that feeling of what i would call altruism for the moment here s so i think that’s the primary reason people are our philanthropic there are others but i think that’s the primary well, you mentioned the two sound shooting and there was a chronicle of philanthropy opinion piece this past week by diana aviv. Yes, on dh she heard a thesis is that the nonprofit sector has a role to play in sort of healing and, well, maybe not so much in healing. That’s not right in civil discourse in creating a civil discourse, i think that’s really what she was getting at. Do you think there’s ah role there for charities? I think there is no other place for that role then in charities, i think diana of eve was on target. I get to that issue myself at the end of the book, the non-profit challenge by talking about the sectors. And where do we look for this kind of discourse? Because this kind of discourse is the backbone of ethical decision making. It’s the backbone of acting good and dinah aviv is correct. If she had a book length article, i think she would have gotten into some of the details. One of the problems is, is we talk about those in highfalutin terms that we have this ability to do this. We we want to be change makers. There’s ah, a lot of evil in the world and so forth. My concern with that is not so much that we don’t recognize that as a general idea. But how do we get it specific? How do we make that happen? And that article didn’t go there. I’m not saying it should have, but we need to go there’s charities and ask those tough questions because she’s right, the non-profit sector has a tremendous role, a tremendous responsibility. Do you think we’re going to get it from business? I don’t think so, and that isn’t to put down business, but that’s not where we’re going to get that answer is not their role and the government. I mean, i’m not really a big fan of government regulation because it’s always this great big hammer and we’re trying to get a fly dun and the regulations usually don’t do the job. So how is that gonna happen? It’s gonna happen in the ethical decision making process? This is gonna happen in what i call the ethical sector, the non-profit sector on that part on that point, i would say diane is right on target, and we’re going to get teo your four pillars of ethical, the ethical process? Yes, we’re going to get to that. What about the, you know, also very timely in the news, the buffet gates challenge to their to their fellow very ultra high net worth people americans mostly not exclusively, mostly the sort of a backlash that that that creates aa concentration of national priorities in the hands off roughly forty families and mostly in the u s do you do? Do you feel that kind of concentration? Do you? Do you think much of that? That backlash argument? Well, it’s interesting, you ask that question? Because right after Mark zuckerberg became the 57 that was interviewed on that point and that question was asked, and i wish i had with me the quote, because i put this up from time to time when i’m doing my talking, lee, then ask who says this, but basically, is that what you’ve just said? We have to be ah aware of those organizations or people who would usurp government activity, and this is george washington in his farewell address spoke to that very issue because what’s going on right now on guy think that bill gates and warren buffet and other philanthropists are wonderful people and they’re doing wonderful things, but a lot of the question comes from who are they to make the decision? Who are they to say, for example, that charter schools are the best way to go? They may be, i’m not making that argument one way or the other, but your question is were really relying on these people of wealth to make. National decisions and as a result of that, this past year, this growing issue i’ve developed a course at n y u for the masters that i’m teaching next year on public policy and philanthropy and how they intersect because that question is philosophical to the core, and it concerns me a great deal that there’s a lot of wealth concentrated in just a few people, and those people will have an inordinate amount of sway when it comes to public policy. But they have altruism at their roots, don’t they? They do. Did i say this was a black and white question? You’re absolutely correct, tony. They have altruism at their roots and they want to do good for society. They want to do well, they want to do good weaken talk about that distinction in philanthropy, but but this is the issue when it comes to philanthropy in general it’s not all black and white. I’m with doug white, and doug is a professor at the gnu heimans center, also the author of the non-profit challenge integrating ethics into the purpose and promise of our nations charities don’t you talk some about some stunning disasters that charities have? Suffered the madoff scheme, the smithsonian institution, stevens institute of technology, emory university, the national heritage foundation. What what can we take away from these crises? Well, the first thing i want to just mention is that it’s important to be specific it’s important to be riel a lot of times when we’re going to conferences, as we were talking before the show began, we talk about charity, eh? Or donorsearch being or this guy or that guy, we don’t get specific and a lot of the times what we what we don’t get as a result of that are the real issues that make the problem. And so in my books, i’ve been very clear about wanting to say, ok, the red cross you did bad smithsonian, you did bad you shiva, which is the made off example that i used you should have done this not because these people are bad or these places are bad, but we need the reality is of things because every other organization is itself a real place and things can go wrong. What we need to take out of this process is that a first of all it’s not going to be under the rug any longer. The public is too interested in this. The media are too interested in this, and they’re going to follow this kind. Of a thing up, and if they don’t, i will, you will in the world is just a different place from what it was five, ten years ago. Now, on top of that, what charity’s need to take away from this is that they need to step up to the plate and be riel they can’t hide the fact that their investment share is also the person where the who’s getting the money to invest and taking a fee from that they can’t hide, that they’re going to dip into their endowment as opposed a cz against what their donors wanted to have happen. That is no longer something that’s going to happen behind closed doors and that’s i think what charities they need to see that sunlight and you don’t you don’t think they have these issues top of mind and their processes, they’re not accommodating that sunlight. I do not think they do right now, a lot of them, not all of them, a lot of them. Yeah, we’re generalizing. I don’t mean to put you on spot say, although the entire charitable sector that doesn’t, nothing applies to everything within a within a community you do see? Ah, good number of a good percentage of the charitable sector. Not answering the call to this sunlight. That’s? Correct? Yeah, i think. And that’s that’s the issue for me. Because of all of the organizations in the united states in the all three sectors, charities ought to be the most comedy tow that you hold your charities to quite a high standard effect, the highest of the three absolute sectors of our economy. Yes, i do. And it represents sort of what? Roughly what percentage of our gross gross national product of gross domestic product? I’m not sure which i think they changed it. The gross domestic product is a while back, so i’ll go with that. And i again think it’s somewhere between it’s fairly large ten to twelve percent. Well, no one really knows. I think maybe you do, but i think it’s somewhere on ten to twelve or maybe fifteen percent of our gross domestic product, which is not a small amount of change now, considerably. No, i think that product is roughly fifteen trillion dollars. Okay, roughly a trillion and a half dollars. Yeah. You you talk about the four pillars of ethics and i want to start toe, get into sort of the substance of the ethics process that you’re you’re advocating? Really? Why don’t you want to tell the audience? What are those four pillars? Well, wait, talk about these words have been known to go we’re talking about how we say phrases and they’re kind of airy and we don’t get down to the details of them. The phrase you had it a minute ago that you’re going to show me the out of the book the phrase for example, transparency, you know, just take a look at that the phrase transfer their word transparency, the word are the phrased disclosure, disclosure, conflict of interest, those air all words that we use nowadays they’re buzzwords we talk about them say, well, we we are we want to be more we want tohave disclosure, we want to be sure we don’t have a conflict of interest, we want to be transparent, and then everybody dances around that. But what does that mean? And so not only are they what i think are the four pillars of of ethics because they asked the charity’s themselves to do the work to get the word out. To get the honesty out to get the ability for anybody else to find out that honesty, i talked to a charity in washington, d c an awful charity who felt that it was doing everything it should because it files nine nineties, as if they should be rewarded for following the law and that’s just the wrong standard to use, especially for a chortle that’s just getting by. That’s just getting by, you know, that’s not anything to brag about, but what we’re so that being understood, what is that level? Where do we go, how do we become transparent? What does that mean? What do we tell people? How do we let them know what that is? Well, today, it’s, easier than ever. We have websites. Why don’t people have their own nine nineties on their websites? Why do they not only not have them, but if they did, why would they only go back three years? Oh, well, that’s, because we’re required to only go back three years. That’s, not the answer. We’re going tow. We’re going to take a break, and when i return, of course, doug white will stay with us, actually, right after the break, it’s ah, tony’s take to doug white is going to stay with us. We’re going to talk in detail about the four pillars of ethics on the fourth one that didn’t, but doug doug did not mention yet is oversight. We’ll talk in detail about those and get into that process of ethical decision making. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy contact them today. Admission one one media dot com hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent time for tony’s take two on today’s show. First thing i’d like to spend a moment with is workplace sexism. I blogged about this in november, and then again just about two weeks ago or so, confirming what i had asked in november, which was, does sexism still exist in the workplace? And i was embarrassed to say in the in the second post, just two weeks ago that i didn’t realize yes, it does. I shouldn’t have even bothered in november asking the question i should have just gone right to the declarative and said sexism does exist in the workplace and the comments that i’m getting on that the most recent post just ten days or two weeks ago some very poignant stories, so suggesting it’s something you might want to take a look at management and boards just ignoring federal law that prevents is supposed to be preventing ah, create sanctions for sex discrimination organization policies being ignored and even to the point of one woman telling story about her daughter, who is a professional fundraiser who ended up quitting her. Job because she was being set up on dates with donors, sons, those comments and all the other stories that are attached to that post you’ll find on my block at m p g a d v dot com in the name of the post is sexism confirmed also want to share with you last minute e-giving opportunity for i r a gift. So under the tax relief act, which president obama signed just a couple of weeks ago, there is a provisioned for donors to make two thousand ten ira gif ts this month on ly the month of january and what you might do is look to donors who have multiyear pledges who may want to accelerate those pledges, and they could do that in the month of january by making a gift that counts toward there mandatory required distribution of their ira counts toward two thousand ten, and then again this year, they could make another gift, which counts there toward their two thousand eleven mandatory required distribution. So if you have those donors who maybe are willing to help you with a two thousand ten shortfall in your fund-raising or as i said, maybe they have multiyear pledges and they’d like to accelerate those pledge payments. Those would be good prospects to talk to you for this opportunity it expires at the end of this month the counting the gift for the two thousand ten is on ly good for the month of january, then for all the rest of two thousand eleven, the ira possibility remains, but it would only be for two thousand eleven minimum required distributions, and you’ll see that block post that’s called gift possibility remains for two thousand ten ira rollovers and that’s also on my block at mpg a d v dot com i’m with doug white, doug white is with us, and we’re talking about his book the non-profit challenge integrating ethics into the purpose and promise of our nations charities, you’ll find his book as well as his other two at amazon dot com and right before the break, doug, we were just talking about your four pillars of ethics just wanted just quickly name them, and we’re going, we’re going toe talk about them in a little detail, but if you just name the four pillars, okay, we have, i think, disclosure and transparency, which are quite close to another and we have a conflict of interest, and the fourth one is oversight on dh those for all our very subjective terms. They don’t have black and white ideas, but i love that you call them pillars. Killers are not mushy, subjective relative things there’s are typically granted or concrete and their towering that’s kind of what you call them pillars. I think you’re absolutely correct and looking at that because i feel that they are the pillars, without which charity will crumble. Would you mind reading this paragraph from doug’s goingto read one paragraph from page one fifty three of his books book, talking about these pillars. Four concepts form the backbone of ethics that non-profit organizations the one we just discussed, actually, charities would do well to structure all of their activities around these practices. Every decision should begin by searching for a fidelity to those words. The people making decisions should ask themselves whether they would do the same thing if they knew their actions would be disclosed to the public to ignore the growing level of interest the public and the regulators have in charities or worse to fight them is a loser. Idea. Akin to automobile manufacture. Emperors fighting the requirement to install air bags in all cars. Doug, how do we ensure fidelity to those four pillars? We don’t we can only hope we can only strive, and in order for that to happen, we have to have a humility about who we are and what we’re trying to accomplish. I can look at examples very small, for example is the smithsonian institution who did not bring that kind of humility to his job at the smithsonian. Now you’re not going to hear a lot of people say that because i love the smithsonian and we don’t liketo talk that way about our own, but until we do, i think we need to be honest and until we are that we’re goingto allow people to not be human humble, to not be honest with themselves, and then we won’t be able to accomplish this objective. I’m not sure we’ll ever accomplish it because it is it’s a high standard, but i think we need to have people who know that the non-profit sectors different from business and government is not business light it’s not like another way of doing business non-profits have a special place in society. They have a special place in our hearts, they have a special place in history, you know what i mean? By history’s going back thousands of years durney the idea that we don’t have an extra moral purpose as humans when we run these organizations which are designed solely to help society in a way that neither business nor government can do. The idea is so profound that we need to call upon the best of who we are as human beings. And part of that is an examination would be those four pillars. And in order for those toe really stand as pillars, we have to take them seriously. We have to examine them. We have to examine them in terms of the in the context of the organizations that were running as as well as who we are, ours leaders off those organizations and nothing can be taken for granted. One of the issues with with ethics in the decision making process is not to put yourself into a different place from everyone else. This is what bill aramony did at the united way and that’s why everything went downhill during the late eighties and early nineties. Now the united way of america. Back then, it was the united way of america is a wonderful organization, but he decided he was better than anyone else in the organization. He decided that it would be that the organization would do certain things, and he decided how some money would be run and that’s not the way to do it. So we need fewer bill aramony’s, despite how wonderful a job he did until that time to bring the organization to a very high place. We can’t have the larry smalls of the world running charities. Larry smalls, please tell us at the smithsonian, i’m sorry, the smithsonian, we can’t have that not because he’s a bad guy, he’s a good guy, but he didn’t get the non-profit ethos lost his humility. He lost his humility here. He didn’t have it one of the other. The point is we can’t say it’s, okay for me if it’s not okay for you that’s part of the ethical decision making process and charities have to embrace that they have to embrace that wholeheartedly. That’s another part of what i love about the quote that i asked you to read, which is, would you do the same thing if you knew that everybody was looking at you? Absolutely. And now some people ask that question and ethics and say, well, you have to be aware of what the new york times might say on its front page tomorrow. Well, you do, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you wouldn’t do it. Question is, can you defend it? Can you honestly say that this was the right thing? You know, the newspaper might get it wrong. The general feeling of the public might be wrong. You would have to stand by your values, but you can’t do it by just saying i’m right and you’re wrong. See a lot of people i know in this town anyway, okay? And then why you think that bush should not have gone to war with iraq? Ok? They think they should not have gone to war with iraq. I say, look, let’s agree with that. But if bush president bush had done one thing, he would have been a lot better off if he had been honest about why we had gone to iraq. He could have said, i know there aren’t any weapons of mass destruction, but i feel that saddam hussein’s a really bad guy and we got to get rid of a lot of people. Would have disagreed with him. That’s okay, but at least he would have been honest. And he would have said, these are my values. These are the values i think the united states ought to bring into this process. That’s what we need tohave we can’t always go around saying, oh, i hope i do something that everybody will agree with, and if i don’t, i’m just not going to tell anybody and hope that nobody understands. We’ve got to be clear about being honest about what we do. An example you you spend some pages on in the book is the metropolitan museum of art, whether they should i have put our scent art to las vegas on loan to the bellagio. So now he’s world class art museum talking about world class art in one of the richest places in the world. Las vegas why don’t you take the story from there? Actually, that was the boston museum. It was boston museum in new york. Centric course. Everything happens in new york. I’m surprised supplies las vegas is not new york. Ok, sorry. But i used that example not to say anything bad about the organization, but to show the challenges that come up in governance, and this is part of oversight and part of what governance ought to be at boards source. They teach clients about governance as leadership and all of the questions that come up. But let’s say you run an organization like the metropolitan well, you can use that they have wonderful pieces of our it could’ve taken out to las vegas, this den of iniquity, this is this is culture. We can’t have that we can’t be lending our name into this this place and a lot of places would let it go at that. But then this museum up in boston said, well, what are the pros and cons? What are our values and what that might be g would it be better for more people to see this art? Would that be a good thing? And the answer to that question is yes would be associated with las vegas. We a bad thing? I mean, this is boston after becoming like, my goodness, that would be a terrible thing. See away the right versus the right. Rushworth kidder, one of my heroes when it comes to ethical decision making, who runs? In a non-profit in maine talks about right versus right all the time because if we’re talking ethical decision making, we’re talking about ethical dilemmas. We’re not talking about the obvious right versus the obvious wrong. We’re talking about a dilemma right versus right? And in that particular example, there were two rights. One is we’re going to have a problem with our image, the second oneness, and confronts it in conflicts with it. And that is the idea that more people will be able to see our our work, and they ended up doing the deal they did, and they took some criticism for it. They did, but you looked at their process and and it’s outcome the process was key and to try to avoid criticism, it’s a loser’s game and it’s not even it’s, not even a worthwhile goal. Who would want to live in a world where everybody agrees all the time it would take away ah chunk of our humanity that i don’t think we’d be a world a tte leased the one that i would recognize without it. So forget the idea that we’re always going to agree, in fact, when i go into a room and i learned this when i worked in politics in the early seventies, the fellow said. Well, i could go into the room full of people who agree with me, and i could go into a room full of people who disagree with me, which where should i go? I said, we’ll go with it where they love you, he said, no, i go into the room that they disagree with me because that can change their minds. I can talk to them. I can hear what they have to say, and i’ve never forgotten that that’s part of the idea here, i want to get into your the process that you recommend that you advocate but let’s talk so a little in leading up to that more the detail of the four pillars you said disclosure and transparency very close, but you do make a distinction in the book. Why don’t you make that first? Well, i think that disclosure is the ability for people for a charity to teo wth the idea of a charity allowing people to see the what’s going on. We have to disclose things, aunt, i’ll come back to that in a second, with an example, transparency from my perspective is the ease that we allow the public to see are what we disclose so there’s a distinction there, but the reason i make the distinction is we’re saying those two words all the time as if they were different and they are different, but we never really make that distinction. We’re always talking about it is that it goes away. Let me give you an example of disclosure. I sat on in nineteen ninety five for the dahna philantech protection act, the texas case and we we got this bill passed and a required disclosure with gifts that were planned gifts that we’re co mingled and we’re really happy the sec wanted this for twenty years now is a federal law. A lot of charities didn’t like it, but i was happy, so they said there needs to be disclosure. Great. So the next day, after i had testified to this and after it had gotten past, i called the head of the sec, barry barbash and i said, oh, gosh, we’ve got to ask this question what does disclosure mean? What’s the definition he said that’s up to you, that’s up to you, you have to do that for yourself, and actually the law says reasonable disclosure reasonable, which is even, you know, so, you know, the issue is we are responsible for deciding that and so and it can’t be run by a bunch of lawyers because after that gift annuity disclosure statements were fifty pages long, they were all pretty much filled with legalese. Do you know what barry barbash said when i said, i’m having difficulty with your answer, he said to me, if a seventy five year old person he said, lady, so i’ll just say that who doesn’t understand finances doesn’t understand what you’re telling her in this disclosure. It’s not disclosing anything now i think of that that’s profound it’s not disclosing anything, you could throw a bunch of stuff out, and if it doesn’t tell the person anything it’s not disclosing anything, is it fair to say that you envision you see it transparency as sort of the mindset of openness and then disclosure as the process the practice of disclosing yes, yes, ok, and that mindset, the transparency being reaching out to the public, the donor of the public and saying this is the way we’re going to make it easier for you to understand what we’re doing just in the thirty seconds or so. What we have before a break, let’s, talk about avoidance of conflict of interest. Oh, yes, a third pillar, thirty seconds on that. Well, i i think conflict of interest needs to be disclosed. Okay, bringing those two ideas together. It’s not always going to be avoided, but it should be disclosed, and the issue isn’t so much that it always that it exists. Sometimes we can talk about this later, but that is not disclosed. My guest is doug white he’s, the author of the non-profit challenge. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two one to seven to one eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna i really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. 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We’re talking about ethics and his book the non-profit challenge and doug were at the fourth pillar of of ethics, which is oversight. Don’t you say a little about oversight? Oversight is pretty much the domain off of boards, and i think the board’s oftentimes don’t understand the seriousness of their job. They are the legal backstop oven organization, they are in charge not only of keeping it safe financially and otherwise legally, but also they’re in charge of its leadership. They’re in charge of looking toward its future, they’re in charge of that charity, and so if they don’t have oversight on dhe mentioned earlier with the united way with stevens and with all of these organizations where there have been problems ah lot of that could be traced back to the lack of oversight on the part of the board or the lack of oversight on the part of the senior staff. So the board has tohave a sense of seeing the organization of overseeing its activities. It has to take a seriousness in that approach because they are who they are, they’re they’re the people who are responsible. For this organization they cannot allow, no matter how good, no matter how smart a ceo or us on executive director might be to just work alone without any sense of, uh, answering to the board. So the board has to take that very, very seriously, and that will mean doesn’t matter that they pay, you know, one hundred dollars a supposed one hundred fifty dollars, for ah lunch or something for the staff or whatever. I’m talking about the big picture and people will say, of course, you know, boards are very interesting the big picture there go cardio overseeing what’s going on, but that’s not true look at yeshiva, who lost all of that money and made off the payoff scandal. That is a pretty big picture, but people say, well, i trust this other person who’s on the board or i trust the person who’s investing the money. Nobody looked a trading slips because there weren’t any trading slips that was too much of a detail, so who’s going to look at it? Well, the board should ask about that. Even if you’re not, you don’t have a lot of financial acumen or investing acumen. You should ask that one of the people asked on the harvard boards said, but if we got into all of these alternative strategies, which reduced liquidity, but increase the value of the portfolio and we then got into a situation where we didn’t have that liquidity, where would we get it? Because you know what the students need, that this is what keeps the place going that was asked by someone who wasn’t even part of the investment process, so it takes i think, for the oversight of people who aren’t the expert but who care and that we’re smart and that responsibility is won’t make this explicit, of course, is a legal responsibility that board members have, yes, the under the laws of fiduciary duty, right? I heard that there of the nine million board chair board occupancies in the united states, four and a half million were vacant a couple of years ago because there was so much difficulty getting board members on the charities. My question is, i’m worried about the four and a half that are not vacant, you know, the ones that are filled by people who don’t know what they’re doing don’t just in the few minutes we have left. Let’s, bring these four pillars together into ah, what you advocate is the process of ethical decision making. Yes, there’s. No real blueprint for this because every organization is going to be different and it’s a subjective process. But the question here is, do we know what the big questions that we have to face are, for example, let’s, let’s. Look at investing, for example, the are investment portfolio is x do we want to have? What kind of a mix are we going to become more risky? Do we want to become more conservative? There’s? No right answer within that. But when we get there, when we answer that question based on other values, then we want to make sure that the investment makes is correct. And if we get out of that, we want to know. And so there has to be a process to know. And there has to be a process to ask the question to begin with. So you you know, you walk in there, you say here’s a slate, a blank slate, one of the large questions, and i wouldn’t recommend a charity start. Simple. Take the five largest. Questions they can imagine asking on saying, how are they going to answer it and then go deep and deep, deep down to the details of that process using the ethical decision making process? I’m not going to accept myself because i’m special. I’m going to get a cz much information as i possibly can in the process of making a decision not just the information i want but everything, and then i’m going to make a decision, but i’m going to keep my mind open after that that’s all part of the guideline of making an ethical decision maker of the ethical decision making process. But i would say that charities don’t do this, they do not do this. My guest has been dug white, and he is assistant professor at the and then you new york university heimans center. His book is the non-profit challenge integrating ethics into the purpose and promise of our nations. Charities. You should read this book there’s considerably more detail, of course, that we were able to conserve a kidder. Consider in just an hour, doug. Thank you very much for joining me in the studio. It’s. My pleasure, tony it’s. Been a pleasure having you next week. Savvy strategies to save you from a sexism scene policies you need in place to protect your employees and your non-profit i’m so concerned about sexism in the workplace that we’re going to start devoting cem showtime to it, this will be just one segment. There will be another show in the future devoted to it next week, talking about these strategies to save yourself and your organisation from an embarrassing situation around sexism. My guest will be hr consultant karen bradunas and also next week planned giving newsletters tips to make them punchy and interesting so that your donors actually read them. My guest will be clear meyerhoff she’s, a marketing consultant and also the creative producer to this show, you could get our insider alerts, and i hope you will like us on the facebook page. It’s, of course. Facebook dot com tony martignetti non-profit radio click on the like button. The creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, our line producer on the owner of talking alternative broadcasting. Sam liebowitz and our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio always. With mid size and small non-profits in mind, of course, the tagline. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I hope you join me next friday for those guests. I just mentioned one p m eastern here on talking alternative, which you always find at talking alternative dot com. E-giving ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Duitz are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? 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