323: 2016 Giving Report & 2017 Forecast – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving, with professors Paul Schervish from Boston College and Doug White from Columbia University.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

299: Training Choices & 2Q16 Fundraising Results – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Kevin Martone, technology program manager at Harold Grinspoon Foundation; Debra Askanase, founder & digital engagement strategist, Community Organizer 2.0; and Rene Swink, technical assistance coordinator with Exceptional Children’s Assistance Center.

Also, Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

283: Digital Metrics & 1Q16 Fundraising Metrics – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Meico Whitlock, digital communications consultant and associate director of communications at NASTAD; Rebecca Reyes, digital marketing consultant at Spring Media Strategies.

Also, Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

274: 2015 Giving Report & 2016 Forecast – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving, with professors Paul Schervish from Boston College and Doug White from Columbia University.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

225: 2014 Fundraising Review & 2015 Forecast – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving.

Also professors Doug White from Columbia University and Paul Schervish from Boston College.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

180: Faceoff: Atlas of Giving & Giving USA – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving.

Gregg Carlson, chair of Giving USA Foundation.

Una Osili, director of research at Indiana University’s Lilly Family School of Philanthropy.

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

125: Giving: Looking Back & Ahead – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guest this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent you know me, i’m your aptly named host. I hope very much that you were with me last week don’t let me hear that you missed social media data to find advocates, leaders and hidden vips. Casey golden, ceo of small act, and mark davis, director of product marketing for blackbaud shared ways to leverage social media metrix to find hidden gems among your constituents, and that was pre recorded at the bb con conference that i was at last october and get engaged for amy sample ward, our social media scientists and regular contributor she’s, the membership director for in ten non-profit technology network, and she continued our siri’s on serious engagement through the social networks, looking at staffing, who should staff your social engagement? How much time are they going to spend and what policies do you need? This week e-giving looking back and ahead. Rob mitchell, ceo of atlas giving atlas of giving, tells us how giving did by sector source and state in two thousand twelve and how it will do in two thousand thirteen what sector increased most how did you fare? Compared to the larger picture and what’s ahead? We’re going to give away a few three hundred forty nine dollars atlas of giving subscriptions that will allow you to get instant personalized forecasts for a year, and i’m very pleased that rob is with me for the hour, about midway through tony’s take two my block this week. Is the charitable ira rollover revived? I blogged that last week also, but there’s still, the january ketchup provision that’s available for your donors to make gifts from their iras, and i’ll talk about that. It is now my pleasure to welcome to the studio and back to the show. Rob mitchell he’s, the ceo of atlas of giving, which is at atlas of giving dot com yes, thirty years working in and around non-profits as a fundraiser, executive and consultant, the atlas of giving measures analyzes and forecasts charitable giving monthly by sector source and state, and i’m glad to welcome back to the show in the studio for the first time. Rob mitchell, how are you? I’m doing fantastic, tony, how are you? I’m well to guide you. You’re visiting from texas, right? I am it’s. A we don’t get this kind of weather in texas to off yeah, we’re in the thirties way have been for a few days dahna let’s talk about the methodology let’s re acquaint listeners who may not remember from last january what’s the methodology of the atlas of giving. Ok, well, it goes back tio my experiences, a practitioner, most recently at the american cancer society running the fund-raising programs for the society and i was always frustrated that there was no benchmark that i could use to measure are giving on a contemporary basis the only measurement that was available at that time was giving yusa, which comes out in june mid june, following the giving year and our fiscal year there started in september, the giving us a numbers weren’t particularly useful to me anyway. Bottom line i had a hypothesis and a hypothesis was that charitable giving was directly tied to certain factors in the economy and demographics, and if we could identify what those factors were, we could build a measurement device for measuring charitable giving as it occurs and perhaps a forecast, and i’m happy to say, we’ve been able to do both very successfully. So what we were able to do on what we started with was we we looked at over seventy five different demographic and financial variables econometric down. Is that true? It’s condom actress it’s an album that work, this is a very highly educated all right, great it’s an algorithm, and so what happened was we gave a team of twenty five phd researchers seventy five more than seventy five variables to look at, they came back to us on a national basis. We also gave them forty two years of published e-giving data to look at, they came back to us, they said, ok, these air, the factors that affect charitable giving, and we’ve built an algorithm that when matched against forty two years of published giving data matches with a correlation of coefficient of ninety five and a half percent, which almost never occurs. Okay? And so since then, we’ve been able that was for national giving the toll picture. Since then, we’ve been able to develop specific algorithms for each of nine sectors and for each source of giving individuals, foundations, corporations and bequest and four fifty states in d c okay, excellent, and you can do this looking back and also forecasting for the future. Yes, one of the great things about the factors that we now know affect charitable giving that charitable giving is directly tied to is that we know that many of those factors have already very successful multi year forecast. So we’re able to incorporate those forecast into our our algorithms to measure cheered will giving to produce a very reliable, very accurate forecast, in fact are variants for the last two years on our twelve month forecast, which is the has the most variability it’s kind of like weather. The further out you go, the less accurate it becomes. But our variants this year, for example, was about one and a half percent okay. Ah, how many data points are we talking about? Well, there are literally dozens, it depends on which algorithm you’re talking about. Some of the algorithms are in terms of input variables our it’s on ly a handful and others are more complex, and they range everything from i think most people are aware that charitable giving is tied in some way too gross domestic product, okay? And so many of the variables include gross domestic product. But they include everything from home sales and consumer confidence to even auto parts sales. Believe it or not, really okay, i had a guest on lately who made an analogy between e-giving fund-raising and selling cars. He had an interesting infographic, sort of whimsical, but was making making the point. So now there is an automotive off relationship, okay, unemployment, mazarene heimans huge unemployment well, it’s, it’s huge in some sectors and some sources, obviously individual for individual giving. And you know, tony, one of the things we’ve learned through the process of creating the atlas now on running it for a few years is that the charitable giving machine is very intricate. And so how an organization raises money is oftentimes mohr important related to the economy than what sector that they’re in? And one example i would give you over the last two years as unemployment’s bin as, you know, very high and by historical standards so unemployment’s been high that has a huge impact negative impact on those organizations, which primarily rely on small lots of small individual gifts. I’m by the same token, the organizations that have relied on on major gifts, colleges and universities. Is an example. Thie education sectors done very well the last couple of years, but the stock market has done exceptionally well the last couple of years, and the unemployment rate for college graduates their alumni is less than half of what the overall unemployment rate is for the u s this is all very interesting level these moving parts now you have close to a million data points. Is that right? Are is that right? Or, you know, one of the one of the things is a very high number nine hundred ninety thousand something you’ve got nine hundred ninety thousand data points and so that’s that’s about fifty years of giving history and all the variables that are involved. And so we’ve used that now to create what will be an instant custom forecast for organizations to be able to use, and the reliability is still at the ninety five point, five percent or little hyre it’s, the reliability on that particular product is going to be very high it’s going to be in excess of ninety five percent. We also have what we call atlas premiere, where we actually taken organizations multiyear, giving history and build their own algorithm. We can determine what economic and demographic factors dr giving that for that with them individually for them. Yes, ok, very interesting. We have just a minute before a break. Why don’t you, uh, thi’s two thousand twelve will just give us a broad overview of two thousand twelve, and after the break, we’ll go into the details. Two thousand twelve was a solid giving year, but i’ll parenthetically say, not for everybody, okay, but it was a very good year, right? What it was a very good year. Giving was up six point, seven percent overall in the nation right in two thousand twelve. Okay, we’re going to come back and talk in greater detail about two thousand twelve and also the forecast for two thousand thirteen. After this break, stay with us talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classics, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs welcome back. We’re with rob mitchell’s, ceo of atlas, of giving. We’re talking about all kinds of giving last year and this year. All right, so let’s go into detail, rob about twenty twelve let’s start with the sectors who did what? What sector did the best in twenty twelve? Well, we had several sectors that were extraordinarily good. The environmental sector, though it’s, the smallest sector that we measure, had a very good year in two thousand twelve. What what’s the what’s, the proportion of giving that goes to environmental? I think environmental is about five percent of all giving. Ok? And how well did they do? They actually did very well. The environmental sector was up ten point nine percent in two thousand twelve. Okay, let’s, look it at other sectors. I’m sure you have education. Education had a good year. Education e-giving was up eight point eight percent in two thousand twelve. Okay. And disaster relief was was comparable, right? Disaster relief was comparable in large measure because of hurricane sandy or i guess superstorm storm sandy eight point eight percent also a point. Okay, religion. You had said last year that religion was a declining percentage. Of total giving it isthe continues to being continues to be so what is the proportion that goes to religion now? The proportion that goes to religion now is thirty five percent of all gifts go to religion. And was that was a thirty six last year. Was it a percent hyre or it was a percent hyre last year. Okay on dh s o education is now is declining. And how? How much religion is the client? I’m sorry. Religion is declining as a percentage of total giving as a percentage of total. How did it do? Last year in religion? One thousand religion e-giving to churches and religion was still up in two thousand twelve. But it was up less than the national average and up less when compared with all the other sector. So was up four point two percent. Okay. And you had said earlier the national average is six point seven percent. E-giving that is correct. Okay? And how much is that? How much is how much is our total e-giving from all sources? Three how much was in two thousand twelve? Three hundred little over three hundred and sixty nine billion dollars was given. To charities of all kinds in two thousand twelve. Okay, let’s, let’s. Keep it let’s. Keep looking at the sectors. What other ones have you? Have you got there? We did disaster environment, religion, education. Health was up five point eight percent. The arts were up eight percent. Human needs in society was up seven point eight percent international was up seven point three percent. And what the what we call the analogue k did sector, which includes things like donorsearch vise funds was up nine percent. Okay, now this is a world premiere of these numbers, right? These have not yet been released. They have not been released. In fact, our official press release is not scheduled to go out until tuesday. Okay, outstanding. We have a way. Have some prizes to give away. You’re giving away some subscriptions to atlas of giving for a year. Why don’t you just tell people what it is? They’re they can win. Well. Starting next week, in the middle of next week, we’re going to introduce what’s called atlas custom. And so the winners of these will be able to go on our web site with a code that that you give. Them and they’ll be able by answering six questions about giving at their organization things like what was their total giving last year? What percentage of their gifts came from foundations, corporations, individuals in bequest, those kinds of questions? They answer six easy questions, and they get a twelve month forecast that has for their organization, and we’re going to be charging three hundred forty nine dollars. And by the way, our forecast is updated each month because just like with a weather forecast, we can’t predict today what the weather is going to be a year from now in new york city, whether is a bad example, i think you should find a different analogy to make them whether well, actually trust the weather are twelve month forecast is a whole lot better than the weather. Okay, we hope so. All right, so so users so winners can go in as many times as they’d like throughout the year that they’ll get the free subscription. Sure, but the numbers are only updated once a month. The numbers are updated once. Okay, excellent. And we already have a winner. The winner came from our survey results on that is her. E mail is cheryl at ascending? Non-profits so we’re going to be sending cheryl at ascending non-profits, eh? The code. We’ll give the email teo robin, he’ll give you the code. Is that how it was going to work? That’s bad is how cheryl congratulations and one of the questions that we asked on that survey that cheryl won. And by the way, did you know we have a survey often on shows? If you didn’t know that, then you should be subscribing to our weekly email alerts. They come out every thursday. Tells you the guests are going to be that week and also has a link to the survey. You can also find the survey on my blaga tony martignetti dot com one the questions we asked is, do you benchmark your charities giving against others in your sector? And about two thirds said yes on one third said no, very interested into that. All right, two thirds. And this is atlas e-giving is perfect for benchmarking it is you want to see how you did compared tto your sector, your others in your state and in different from different sources. Well, and one thing i would say is you know, we’ve talked about this new product that’s being debuted next week that we’re giving away today, but we have a free product and the free product comes out once a month and it’s the atlas of giving report and it shows e-giving by month for the last twelve months and so you’re able tto benchmark your results by sector source and state every month, and it doesn’t cost you a dime. All you have to do is go to atl e-giving dot com okay, but what we’re giving away is the custom and custom custom forecast custom forecast. Okay, we have a way for live listeners to win that custom forecast. We’re going to give away two on twitter and two on facebook going to see how this goes. I i’m asked the first to people who tweets or put on the show’s facebook page this phrase, i’m listening live too hashtag non-profit radio and we all know the hashtag is the pound sign i’m listening live to hashtag non-profit radio tweet that right now, live listeners tweet that right now if you’re one of the if you’re the first or second person to tweet it, then you’ll win, and if you’re the first or second person to post that phrase on the show’s facebook page, you also will win. I’m listening live to hashtag non-profit radio. Go to twitter, go to facebook, do it right now and this is a good time to send some live listener love we got live listeners san antonio, texas, yonkers, new york and south field michigan is that field? Sam, i can’t read your terrible writing. Southfield, michigan, yonkers, new york and san antonio, texas live listener love going out to you and yes, we have listener’s foreign as well. Valencia, valencia, spain welcome hola. Okay, rob mitchell let’s get back to some of the numbers on san will be monitoring the hashtag in the studio, but we’re also going toe check it with the show social media manager for final results will come from regina walton. Um to what do you attribute this very strong two thousand twelve giving here? Well, there, there are several things one, as i would say, the stock market had a huge impact. The dow grew at more than ten percent in two thousand twelve, the broader market, the s and p measurement of the market cruise. Sixteen percent in two thousand twelve. That was huge. Gdpr gross domestic product, really gross domestic product, was up and accelerating in the last in the last part of the year, the last half of the year. That was that’s, always good news, forgiving. Home sales home sales are r the the best they’ve been in the last five years. Home prices we have seen the worst. It’s over home prices are on the rebound. There were there were some there’s, some great things. You know, when people think about the economy typically they think about this amorphous economy. And if you listen to too much news from the media, you get a distorted vision of what the economy is really doing because there are certain factors in the economy. I bet that most of our listeners today were unaware that start the broad stock market was up sixteen percent last i agree, i think most people aren’t aware of that. And so now the one thing that is that the year could have been a lot better, because if you consider the fact that individual giving accounts for seventy five percent of all gifts in the united states, unemployment is still a major drag. We started the year with unemployment at eight and a half percent, and now unemployment is at seven point, eight percent. So a slight improvement, but based on historical levels of unemployment still tough and here’s the thing about unemployment to when it relates to giving, if you’re out of a job or you fear becoming out of a job, you discontinue your charitable giving on for the most part, drastically reduced, and then once you become reemployed, what? What our studies show is that you are you’re giving will not continue for another couple of years after you become reemployed because you’re you and your family are making up for it, but you’ve got to catch up it’s deferred expenses, replenishing your savings, the vacations that you didn’t take, those sorts of things so charitable giving there’s a delayed effect and high unemployment and it’s huge in in in the charitable giving pie for the u s because individual giving is such a large part of that seventy five percent. One other thing i’d say on the positive side about individual giving, this was a fantastic year for what i’d call the uber gift. Warren buffett gave a three billion dollar gift this year. Mark zuckerberg, the founder of facebook, gave a gift that was a billion million dollars shy of five hundred million dollars. In fact, there were there were five gifts that accounted for almost two. Point five percent of the entire charitable giving economy, and this is a typical compared to two thousand less this is that this is the year where i would say is the the rebound of the nine figure gift and s o we haven’t had gifts this size in the last couple of years, and this has been good, okay? We have a couple of people who have tweeted the phrase durney i i’m listening live to hashtag non-profit radio looks like michael baker and jim gillette, but we’re going to confirm that the final arbiter of the prizes is the show’s social media manager, s o preliminarily it’s, michael baker and jim gillette on twitter. But we can’t say for sure on facebook. I don’t know we’re not looking at facebook in the studio, but facebook put that same phrase on the show’s facebook page. I’m listening live to hashtag non-profit radio and if your first or second you will win one of these subscriptions you rob, we’re talking about individual giving, so why don’t we talk about some of the sources of given and how those did compared to two thousand eleven let’s start with individual what happened? Individually, individual gifts were very close to the national average and gain percentagewise. Individual gifts were up six and a half percent in two thousand twelve, and we would expect that because that’s such a big proportion such a big proportion of the economy. Okay, well, your foundation’s foundations were up nine e-giving was up nine point three percent and that’s private foundations, right? You distinguish them private foundation. Okay? And and how about corporate foundation and corporate direct corporate foundation and corporate direct was up four point seven percent in two thousand twelve. Ok, and the one near and dear to my heart as a request bequest, we’re up five point nine percent below the national average, though below the national average. Unfortunately, alright, i’s, that all the sources that you, the fact we tracked four sources individuals, corporations, foundations and bequests. Okay with me is rob mitchell he’s, the ceo of atlas of giving, which you’ll find at atlas of giving dot com on. We’re talking about giving last year and later on we’ll get teo this coming year. Let’s, talk about some states. Yeah, you have. Ah, what? What’s? The most generous state in your measures. Well it depends on whether you’re talking about giving growth or total giving because total giving is directly related to population, as you might imagine, california, california, california and new york or big about texas, texas, texas is big and texas had a great year. I don’t know if this is widely known. Texas is the second most populous state, yes, rowing, because california, texas, new york yeah, you’re you’re aware thatyou gets out of that. Of course they have sex, and i’m always proud of things that are bigger and better. Text is texas living up to its number two population size in terms of overall giving it iss in fact, e-giving in texas was up over eight percent this year, and i would tell you this tony about st giving about regional giving if you look at the states that did well last year, no surprise those air, the states that that had the most robust look economies for those states and so texas’s experience as texas is an example is experiencing a huge swell and uptick in the oil business, and it has a very compared to the national average has a low unemployment rate and so other states that have done well the past year, florida, pennsylvania, illinois and so those states have done very well compared to the other states most of the other states were, you know, they’re pretty close to the national average just above or just under okay, well, what? Which state had the largest growth in e-giving from two thousand eleven to two thousand twelve? That distinction falls to let me look at my notes here for a second, okay, that distinction falls, tio see? Well, rob is looking that up. I’ll remind you if you tweet, if you post the phrase i’m listening live to hashtag non-profit radio on the facebook page shows facebook page if you’re the first or second person to do that, we will give you one of these three hundred forty nine dollars subscriptions to atlas of giving for the whole year, you’ll be able to personally predict how your fund-raising will do. Bye bye source do we have? We have that we do highest increase what? I’m really disappointed, tony, because texas didn’t make it to number one, but illinois was first with seven points. Well, excuse me. Florida was first was eight point four percent. Growth eight point four percent in florida. Ok, eight point for illinois. Second was seven point seven. Texas was in third place with eight and a half percent. Okay. All right, top three. Interesting. We have just about two minutes before before our break. Do you consider donorsearch vise funds? How do they think they work into your that’s? A very big source of its e-giving. And then ultimately, hopefully sometime there’s a delay of gifts to charity had well, the way that it’s working now is very interesting because those gifts are factored in. And if you look at our largest donor advised funds the fidelity gift fund, they they’ve renamed it, but they had a they had a record year for the second year consecutively and grants made out of the fund and on new gifts into the fun really grants out. Yes. Very interesting. Yes, but we like to say and so but they’re they’re they’re gifts in group. Believe it or not. Year over year eighty nine percent from two thousand eleven to two thousand twelve. Holy cow! Are you sure? Yes, pasha it’s. Not a mistake. Positive. You can go to their website. Check me. Out eighty nine percent growth you’re over from eleven to twelve. Yes, my goodness. Okay, we’re going to continue this discussion after the break. Tony’s, take two, and then, of course, robyn, i will keep talking. Do we have there? Have anybody who facebooked thea, nobody you could still win on facebook, are still giving away to atlas of giving subscriptions on facebook. Post the phrase on the radio show on the show page. I’m listening live to hashtag non-profit radio. I hope you’re going to stay with us e-giving thinking, tooting, getting ding, ding, ding, ding! You’re listening to the talking alternative network, itching to get in. E-giving cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rodder with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent time now for tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is the i r a charitable rollover revived. I mentioned it last week, but i want to spend another a few minutes talking about it because you still have this. Your donors to still have this january catch up provisions a reminder that the ira e-giving was revived in the american taxpayer relief act that was passed on january first. It’s not really a roll over, roll over is the ah popular phrase it’s ah it’s actually a distribution and it’s called a qualified charitable distribution so that’s what i’m going to call it, i use roll over on the block just because that’s, what people are going to search for your donors have to be over seven, seventy and a half or over on the date they make their gift. They do this from a traditional or a roth ira. They have ah, maximum qualified charitable distribution of one hundred thousand dollars per ira owner and that’s across all the across all the qualified charitable distributions they might make. The different charities per year, so one hundred thousand dollars maximum per ira owner per year, and the distribution has to go directly from their ira, too. Your charity this january catch up provisioned that i mentioned is that if if they make a qualified charitable distribution to your charity in january, got to do this before february first, then they can count it toward two thousand twelve, and that will do two things for them in two thousand twelve. It will be eliminated from their taxable income, so it’s not reported as income, and it will count toward there rmd or required minimum distribution. So two thousand twelve most people have probably already met their required minimum distribution because we didn’t know we were gonna have these this catch up provisions. So by december thirty first, people probably already took what they what they needed to otherwise they would have been penalized, but this has the advantage of being nontaxable and still counting toward that required minimum distribution. There’s a lot more about this on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, including a one page downloadable briefing that i wrote for you that you can use to brief your board use it in the newsletter or email blast. Ah, that is also part of that post on my block, continuing now with rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving and rob, why don’t we talk a little about you’re twenty thirteen forecast? Well, thanks, i love talking about the forecast, although i i’m afraid i don’t have great news for two thousand thirteen so the atlas, by the way, is the only forecast for charitable giving in the us and it’s been very reliable on dh, as i mentioned before, month to month it’s it’s nearly one hundred percent reliable actually for the quarter. It’s a little less reliable than it is for the six month period but for twelve months ahead. It’s very reliable with the variants of about one and a half percent. Okay, so it’s it’s a very reliable forecasts are forecast for two thousand thirteen. We should have a drum roll because it’s the world premiere that’s the world premiere of this forecast it’s a world premiere the forecast for total giving for the united states two thousand thirteen will be three hundred seventy five billion, which is only a one point six sadly only a one point six percent increase over two thousand twelve. Oh, my goodness, compared to six point seven from from last year. Yes. Okay, um, you have something special about the last quarter of this year? Well, actually, the last four months of this year. Indeed, for the first time since we’ve looked at things the it’s actually more than the last quarter it’s out called the last trimester, it starts in september and so what we’re what the atlas is showing for september, october, november and december is that giving will actually be less than it was for those months in two thousand twelve. So if you’re relying on a big year end, this isn’t the year for it. And why do you predict that those four months are going to be so much worse than the corresponding months in two thousand twelve? I think a major factor is the stock market, and we’re not expecting the stock market to have the same kind of year in two thousand thirteen that it’s had the last two years, so stock market growth is certainly a part of it there’s some other factors involved, you know, we talk about individual giving, making up such a large part of the charitable pie and there’s some things that have hit americans starting in two thousand thirteen that are going to have an impact on individual giving for those of us who work and have social security deducted from our paychecks, we just had a tax hike, and so it means less disposable income consumer confidence, though, is it? It rose a bit in two thousand twelve, consumer confidence for two thousand thirteen is not looking so good, so so those are some of the factors that are that are going to drive e-giving to a lower growth point and in terms of of this last the year end for two thousand twelve, you know, we had a we had a great stock market when people are thinking about we also there’s some, there are some concerns and some of the things that drove giving in the last quarter of this year, including things like the the buffet in the zuckerberg gift who are the you know, it’s expected that taxes are going to go up in the charitable deduction is in question may be a loss of the charitable deduction it may. Be a reduction in the charitable deduction, so a lot of people were motivated to give it the end of two thousand twelve gifts of appreciated assets or set up planned gifts at the end of two thousand twelve, and that is not going to be the same case in your end this year. Okay, okay. Just in that little little niche of planned giving them. But you’re you’re measuring realized bequest? Yes, we are ok at people’s deaths. Okay. I want to take a moment to send out some more live listener love. And also we have a contest for podcast listeners. Podcast listeners the nine thousand you listen on from itunes you are not for gotten by any means. We have a contest for you also. But let’s send live listener love teo, nanjing, china ni hao taipei, taiwan. I don’t know how to say hello in oh, no, taiwan is chinese. So anyhow, i do know, of course, and i know that china chinese has spoken in taiwan. It’s, common knowledge. Inchon, inchon, korea on you go and seoul, korea also neuro haserot lots of live listener love going abroad now for podcast listeners. You, if you want to win one of the subscriptions to atlas of giving? I want you to put on the show’s facebook page, i’m i i listen to the podcast and use hashtag non-profit radio i listen to the podcast hashtag non-profit radio and i know when the podcast comes out so live listeners don’t think you can get away with this because i know very few people know when the podcast goes live so that’s on what did you say on facebook? That’s on facebook podcast listeners only i’m going to give away three to podcast listeners three atlas of giving subscriptions i listen to the podcast hashtag non-profit radio on the show’s facebook page. Okay, rob let’s, talk about how the different sectors are going to fare in twenty thirteen who who looks the best? The best is again well, not again, but the best sector forecast for two thousand thirteen is the environmental sec geever up five point nine percent now that helped that’s helpful and good, but again, the environmental sector is the smallest sector of the nine we measure so there’s. You know, i could speculate as to why the environmental sector is doing well, i think. It has a lot to do with the fact that many of us are more in tune with environmental issues than we’ve ever been before. What is that? What is the largest sector? Well, of course, the largest sector is religion, religion, e-giving your churches and religion okay, predicted to continue its declined one percent at a time. Yeah, well, actually, religion is actually going to gives to churches and religion is forecast to experience a really decrease from two thousand twelve to two, two thousand thirteen, so not only in well, is it going to decrease in percentage of overall giving that it represents also yes, another percent down to thirty probably will be another person for i think we’ll be down to thirty for ok. And how much do you predict that the overall giving to religion will decline? A little less than one percent point eight percent so nearly flat. But it is what we’re showing today is that by this time next year, gifts to churches and religion will have shown a decline. Okay, now all of these predictions get refined every month after month, right? So atlas of giving subscribers and the lucky people who win the wind the subscription khun see month after month how the different sectors are predicted to do for the for the next twelve months or in the next twelve months, right? Not just to the end of the counter here, but for the next twelve for the next twelve months. And this is important as a practitioner, because if you’re setting a budget and let’s say your fiscal year doesn’t start with january one when i was at the american cancer society, our fiscal year started september one, so you want to be able to have a forecast so that you can do your budgeting based on what you’re this whole year is? And one of the other things i’d say that’s important about the update monthly in the forecast is i was at the american cancer society in two thousand won and we were having, ah, good year and most organizations in america, we’re having a good giving year in two thousand one, and then we had september eleventh and the world change and giving came to a near stand still for six months, and so just, you know, there are events that unfold oppcoll month to month not every month and and not every day, but events effect giving. And so a dramatic event like that obviously has a big impact. But their events all over all over the u s all over the world that an impact giving and that’s the reason for checking in regularly with the atlas to see what the forecast has become. Let’s, let’s spend a little more time on the different sectors. Sector predictions for two thousand twelve why don’t you just go through a sari for two thousand thirteen just in the two minutes or so we have a break one before we have a brake lines just run down what the sectors look like for this year. Health is going to be just a bubble above flat at point three percent growth education will be two point, six percent growth, human services, and this also includes disaster services, up four point nine percent. So compared to the field, that sector is expected to do well. The arts up two point seven percent i’ve already talked about the environmental sector up five point nine percent international, up two percent. And then our unallocated sector, which includes things like donorsearch advised funds and those don’t then those charities that don’t fit well in another category up three point seven percent. Okay. And so that analogy hated would consider would include all the social service, human service agencies, grassroots agencies. No, no, no. Those those would be in our human services and disaster. Yeah, we do have human services and disaster. Yeah, i said okay, just a minute or so before the break. Why don’t we just run down? What the different sectors are in terms of which is largely no religion is the largest on that. Gets predicted to get about thirty four percent of giving. Yeah, religion. None of the other fact. How do the other sectors? Fair. Religion is the largest. Currently thirty five percent. Education is next with sixteen percent. Human services disaster services. Twelve percent of the entire giving pie. Um, the unallocated sectors ten percent society benefit eight percent international, five percent. The arts for percent. And the environmental sector is at two percent of the pie. All right. When we come back, we’ll talk about different sources. Oh, and predictions for two thousand thirteen. Stay with us. Snusz you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz lorts cerini are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the roof because of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s, monte m o nt y that monty taylor. Dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Even more live listener. Love going out tio, gwangju, korea, on yo haserot and fu zhou, china now also tonawanda, new york and philadelphia, pennsylvania. How you doing? Another survey question that i want to share with listeners was, do you benchmark your charities giving against others in your state? The previous question was by sector by state, it’s actually reversed on ly one third said yes to that by state, and two thirds said, no, they don’t, and in a couple minutes i’ll have the answers for different types of giving that charity’s listeners are our benchmarking. Rob let’s, let’s. Look at some of the sources of giving in two thousand thirteen, individual, we’ve said a couple times is the biggest. How is individual going to fare in twenty thirteen? Well, consider the context of total giving for the u. S is projected to go up one point, six percent individual gifts. We’ll be up one point, two percent. Foundation gifts. And this is an area that practitioners might want to focus on next year. Foundation gifts are our forecast to be up four point nine percent. Okay. How did foundation do in two thousand twelve, they were up nine point three percent. Yes. Okay. All right. So so foundations is kind of the highlight by source. The low light. Well, before i get to the little light, i’ll give you the other kind of sad news. Tony, given your background is the request giving. No, we’ll only be a point. Seven percent. Now these air realized request. This is not this is not pipeline sort of stuff and plan giving. This is actually realized bequest. This is interesting. So that means that the people who created gift by will years ago are going to die at a slower rate or their gifts or smaller in their wills. What could you possibly know this? Well, there’s. Some demographic factors involved. And so yeah, i mean, the death rate, the population, the age of the population, those sorts of things matter. But more importantly, and more specifically, the value of our persons of state is what matters the most. And so, as you well know, many people leave a percentage of their estate to chair to a number of charities. And so when the value of their estate, because of the value of the stocks that are in this state or the value of the real estate that’s in the estate is is lower than the bequest, the actual realized request number becomes lower. Okay, mix mix. Good sense. I see how you could know that. Ok, why did you continue? Go ahead. S o the sources. So one left and it’s it unfortunately is going to be the low light forecast for two thousand thirteen. Corporate giving will actually decline slightly. Just it’s basically flat but it’s forecast to be down point three percent. Okay. And what would i thought? We’d said religion was going to be down. Well, you were talking about that’s, a sector and i’m talking about me that i’m screwed up. Okay. Sorry. This is sources. Yes. Alright. So business foundations the low light down. Three tenths of a percent. Okay, now this is interesting. Individual giving is going to be up just one point two, um and overall giving will be up one point. Six. Yes. What’s ah, what’s. Boosting the overall foundation giving. Okay, it’s okay. And what’s the percentage that foundation giving represents to the to the total foundation e-giving represents rob on the spot you got me on. Ah, got its thirteen percent of all giving excellent. You have these numbers. He makes you think he’s sifting through papers, but he just he is modest. He has these numbers off the top of his head. I’ll share another survey result. The question was, what types of giving do you benchmark? If if you do benchmark what types of giving total giving? About eighty six percent of people benchmark total e-giving e-giving at specific dollar levels about forty three percent. About twenty seven percent benchmark private foundation giving and about fifty seven percent said that they benchmark corporate foundation giving and nobody benches their planned e-giving i’m dismayed by that it’s interesting there’s no competition in in the death business, which is my business. That’s why i say that my business’s plan e-giving, um, we have just a couple minutes left, rob mitchell and i want to ask you take a love moment. What is it that you love about doing the atlas of giving what is it? What? What drives you about this? It’s it’s learning essentially because all those all those decades is a practitioner. I didn’t have access to this kind of information, and if i were a practitioner today, this would definitely drive how i allocated my fund-raising resource is through the year how i did my budgeting, it’s it’s an amazing thing how how i distributed my fund-raising budget as an example diversification of the way you raise money makes a huge difference and understanding who how you raise money and who you raise it from makes a huge difference to and can increase the levels of your giving. And so we’re learning things because we have access to this information that we’ve never been able to know before, and that is what keeps me going. I really do love digging into these numbers. Rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving it’s at atlas of giving dot com rob, thanks very much for coming to studio from texas being a guests pleasure loved it. Happy trails glad to have you back next week author yana jane hoexter will be in the studio for the hour talking about her book, grantwriting, revealed twenty five experts share their art, science and secrets. We have nine thousand listeners, a little over nine thousand listeners non-profit radio and fewer than twenty itunes readings. Let’s, go get the number of itunes ratings to reflect the nine thousand people who are out there listening to the podcast. Why? Why does why does tony think that’s important? Because that gives us prominence in itunes and helped expose the show to more non-profits therefore, helping the entire charity community so help raise the stature of the show, and that will help other charities. You can help. You could do that by let’s by getting the number of ratings up, and my goal that i’m setting is one hundred. We’re at a little under twenty right now, so that’s a fivefold increase there’s a goal of one hundred, i’m asking youto go to itunes and give the show a one through five star rating live listeners as soon as the show’s over go to non-profit radio dot net and then from there you can get the itunes non-profit radio dot net is the list of the shows in the archive. From there you can view the show in itunes and give us a rating one through five podcast listeners. Please do that let’s, get to one hundred ratings and help share the show with mohr charities, and i thank you very much for your help with that, our foreign language. Good luck, the way performers say it feature is over. I’m declaring it over, it has had enough. We were everywhere from serbia. Yeah, serbian, croatian, teo french, and we’ve we’ve had enough. I’m saying sayonara, chow mary-jo to that feature, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. 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097: Giving in 2011 & Video Talk With Scott – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Bob Evans, editorial board member of Giving USA

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News 

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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No. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for june twenty second twenty twelve we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I do hope you were with me last week, i’d be in distress if i learned that you had missed motivating your board for major e-giving to start from the fund-raising day conference earlier this month, jennifer herring had advice on motivating, working with and supporting your board to help them step up to fund-raising duties and revisiting your twenty twelve prospect plan. Maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder, did a midyear checkin of her new year’s, her new year’s ideas on your twenty twelve prospect plan from our january sixth show, we talked about the cultivation events that you promised yourself you were going to set up and there’s google lorts you’ve been meaning to get to this week e-giving in two thousand eleven e-giving yusa and atlas of giving use very different methods to report charitable giving e-giving yusa is a survey that looks back the atlas is a forward looking prediction with e-giving yusa, boardmember and atlas givings ceo will contrast. The methods and hear what each has to say about last year’s e-giving numbers and we’ll look forward a little bit, too. Then video talk with scott are scott, our tech contributor scott koegler he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news. He’s going to share the buzz on video sites many that are free that help you make good looking videos to tell your stories between the guests on tony’s take two. If you’re going to give you got to take time off to be great at giving to others, you have to take care of yourself. That’s, my block this week and that’s what i’ll talk about. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter, hashtag non-profit radio. Right now we take a break, and when we returned, my two guests will talk about giving in two thousand eleven, so stay with us. They didn’t think that shooting getting ding, ding, ding ding, you’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get me anything. Cubine money, time, happiness, success, where’s your breakthrough join me, nora simpson, as i bring you real world tools for combining financial smarts with spiritual purpose. As a consultant to ceos, i’ve helped produce clear, measurable financial results while expanding integrity, passion and joy share my journey as we apply the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment to create breakthroughs for people across the world. The people of creation nation listened to norah simpson’s creation nation fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent with me now is bob and rob. Bob evans is a member of the editorial board of giving yusa and rob mitchell is the ceo of atlas of giving, and they’re both here to talk about giving in two thousand eleven and look forward a little bit. Bob, rob, welcome next-gen durney good to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you, bob. Welcome to the show. Rob. Welcome back. Rob’s been on before let’s. See? Tony? Yeah, my pleasure. Let’s. Um, let’s. Start with bob evans. Um, the methodology between e-giving yusa and atlas of giving differ considerably. What? What is bob? What is giving us a cz method for assessing fund-raising last year? E-giving you’re giving us a historically is the most accurate report on charitable giving in america. Refined it’s methodology slightly over the last couple of years, but, uh, it’s still considered to be the most accurate and consistently, uh, uh, focus. Uh, various estimates are based on economic metro’s models using tax data, government estimates from the i r s and other components of the federal government and other research institutions. Okay, but there’s a big survey component, right? Absolutely. Yeah, let’s talk about the thing, isn’t it? I mean, i think that’s what it’s known for is being a survey of charities when you talk about that individual charities air not surveyed umbrella organizations, air survey ok, well, i’m really organizations such as, uh, the the council on foundations, counsel for aid education, the national center for charitable statistics of the urban institute on some other organizations like that that compiled data for various sectors of the e-giving factors. Okay? And so you do the survey at the end of the calendar year, and then and then every june the report comes out. Is that right? That’s correct so that that the report also is revised twice based on new data that comes in from especially with the federal government. The i r s so that the estimate that came out for two thousand eleven giving will ultimately be revised slightly twice more. Okay? And i know you have a revision from two thousand ten, but we’ll get to that. We’re not. We’re not there yet. You want to talk about the methodologies first and so roughly how? Many charities are represented by the umbrella organizations that you survey. Well, they’re one point two million. One point, one one point two million non-profits in the united states is registered with the irs. And then there are two hundred twenty thousand houses of worship. But but how many are represented by the umbrella organizations that you are surveying? Uh, no. Unclear it’s. Probably the most complete survey of anybody but one point, one million non-profits air not surveyed, but because of the methodology that hughes okay, all right, but you, but you don’t know the percentage of the one point one million that you are that you are encompassing in the overreaching surveys. Okay, because we’re dealing with nine nineties were dealing with other federal reports that all non-profits are required to file. Okay. Rob mitchell, uh, atlas of giving what? What’s your methodology there. Well, tony, to give you the methadone, the methodology that we have is that using more than forty two years of published e-giving data and the u s, we were able to prove that charitable giving in the u s is specifically and directly tied to certain factors in the economy and those those factors in the economy changed by sector and by source uh, and by state and so we’ve been able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, the charitable giving his directly tied too specific factors in the economy, not just the overall economy. We know what those factors are, and we have built algorithms when bac checked against more than forty two years of data match up at, uh, ninety nine and a half percent coefficient of correlation, this is the same kind of technology that is used in many macro economic measurements in the us, everything from unemployment to retail sales and so are are unlike what bob’s talked about, we don’t rely on surveys at all. We have a macro view of the entire non-profit e-giving sector, we break things down by nine sectors, four sources and fifty states. And uh uh, the interesting thing about our methodology and technology is that while it is useful to look back and we’re talking now about two thousand eleven, but we already have numbers we measured by month, and so we already have Numbers through last month of 2 thousand twelve, and more importantly, we have developed a forecast. Based on the realities of the factors in the economy and demographics that dr charitable giving, we have a very active forecast out for the next twelve months. Okay, we have just a couple seconds before break. So clearly yours is a forward looking and giving us a is looking back. Bob, just, well, i’ll tell you what, we’re gonna take our break. And then we’ll talk just a tad more about your methodology. And and then we’ll get into the Numbers from 2011. So baban, rob will stay with us, and i hope that you will. Also talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Durney hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics has just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com this is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s tony martignetti, yeah, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Dahna and with me is bob evans from the editorial board of giving us a and rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving robert won’t spend. Ah, just a little time, a couple seconds really just give listeners remind listeners like, just i should say of a few of the data points that giving us a cz forecasts are are based on well, you mean the alice e-giving what i said, i said, giving us that. Yes, i’m sorry, the atlas of giving what are just some of your econometric data points? We’ll sew it. It ranges from everything from i think most people have been in the nonprofit sector for awhile realized gdpr a significant player, but it tony, it ranges from housing starts to unemployment to corporate inventories. There are a variety of factors, and depending on what sector or wet source we’re talking about, they’re they’re different things. Obviously, the stock market in two thousand eleven it was huge for some sectors and for some sources of gifts. So, um, we have specific algorithms built for each each of nine sectors, each of four sources and for all fifty states, ok, understand on dh, those sources are the different charitable missions, i’m sorry, the sources of the funders, the four sources would be individuals, foundations, corporations and request and sector and the sectors are gonna religion, education, the arts and so forth. Okay, excellent. So what did two thousand eleven look like to atlas of giving what happened between two thousand ten in two thousand eleven? Well, two thousand eleven was a remarkable year for for bounce back giving. In the united states. We recorded the national e-giving increase of seven and a half percent in two thousand eleven, and it was fueled largely by a very robust stock market increase, especially in the first seven months of the year. And you see that reflected in several things. Back-up. Just as in a couple of examples. Donorsearch vice funds had record years. Fidelity give fund. In their gifts. For two thousand eleven, vanguard was up seventy five percent. Colleges and universities are you have to do is google college and university record fund-raising sing, and you will see literally dozens and dozens of examples, everything from from harvard and stanford. Teo small community colleges who had record fund-raising years in two thousand eleven. Right on dh. How did two thousand eleven compare to pre recession two thousand seven? Well, it’s uh it’s recovered quite nicely. We’re well past prerecession numbers in terms of total giving in the u s and you know, there’s, there are some storm clouds on the horizon. Our forecast is is a bit sobering forking last quarter of two thousand twelve, we’re going to get well. Let’s not go to the forecast was wantto compare apples and apples for so and adjusted for inflation. What kind of increase did you see from two thousand? Elation? Inflation has baked baked into all of our algorithms. So we’ve got that handled. Okay, so no adjustment necessary from that adjustment. That’s seven and a half percent growth from ten to eleven. Yes. Okay, bob evans. What did what did giving us a c from two thousand ten to two thousand eleven e-giving usa says that two hundred ninety eight point four billion dollars were given to non-profits in ten sectors across the economy. This represented about a four percent increase from two thousand ten. But when adjusted for inflation, it’s only ever about a one percent increase over two thousand ten. Ok, now those numbers are quite different. Well adjusted for inflation, one percent from giving yusa. And the same number seven and a half percent growth from the atlas of giving sabat that’s interesting. What? Uh, rob, what was your total giving number? Was it near the two hundred ninety eight point four billion that giving us a found? Oh, no, we’re well beyond that are part number was, uh, three hundred forty six billion dollars given. Okay, so we have a delta of difference of about fifty billion dollars. Roughly? Yeah, okay. Anybody care to offer their thoughts on why those the percentage and the and the gross number differ so much? Who wants to take a stab at that? Anybody you know, i’ll take a bit of a stab at it, tony, i think if you go back to two thousand eight and two thousand nine and just a bit of from my past, at one time i was the chief development officer of the american cancer society and in terms of using surveys and so forth we had we had a board policy that we didn’t participate in any survey, so it didn’t matter if it was independent sector or the association of fund-raising professionals or or the non-profit times we didn’t participate. And so you had america’s largest health charity not participating in the kinds of surveys, and then there were also there’s also some there’s, some organizations that provide this information, i think the good thing about the alice of giving it that we’re agnostic we’re not subject to two thousand two thousand ten was was an interesting year because you had this large outcry from some very large organizations that didn’t do well the previous year and put give my impression is that it put some pressure on giving us a to reconsider their methodology, which they’ve now changed, but we’re not subject to that sort of thing because we’re not changing our methodology, our methodology solid, we’re sticking with it. Okay, okay, well, let’s give bob evans a chance. You know, the keeping things civil. But i think that’s interesting because the numbers and the percentages do vary so, so greatly. Bob what? What, what? What? What’s your take on this. I think the whole issue really is. How is your organization’s faring fromthe fund-raising arena today? Uh, that regardless of the surveys, regardless of the reports like atlas e-giving are giving us a it really comes down to the bottom line of how each organization is faring and how they’re, uh, seeing support uh, these are all best guesses at at the best. Well, okay, but i think, surely uses that both get atlas of giving and giving us a are reasonably up for two thousand eleven, representing the second consecutive year for increased e-giving but also understanding the two thousand seven undoubtedly was the best year for giving that was a member of two thousand seven was the start of the great recession, okay? And that’s, when everything had cascaded groundwork rob you if i could add a little bit toe weapon, uh, saying here, you know, one of the things that we’ve been able to observe for the first time, i might add, is that, um, you take a look at two thousand eleven, there are many organizations that didn’t do well in two thousand eleven, and the reason is that if they are heavily weighted on relying on small gifts from lots of lots of small gifts from lots of small donors, they’re tremendously impacted by continuing i unimportant. On the other hand, colleges and universities donorsearch advised funds, arts organizations and others, not nearly so affected by high unemployment numbers but very favorably affected by favorable stock market value. So there are the charitable giving economy contains a lot of moving pieces, and the fun part for us is that we’re now able to identify what those moving pieces are and how they’re how they’re affecting individual sectors and individual sources, and bob is exactly right. It all boils down to, regardless of what we say or what giving yusa says says it boils down to how are you doing? And what will you be doing in the next in the next months and years? Sure, i think, though, that you know, if a charity wants the benchmark against something, it has it’s got a broad spectrum tio to benchmark against because it’s either one percent increase or seventy five percent increase. So depending on how you did individual, you could sort of you could say, well, we’re doing much better than the giving, yusa says. Everybody else did, but not as well as atlas of giving says everybody else did fair enough, but i would also add that in terms of benchmarking and part of the reason that i created the atlas of giving was because at the time that i was a fund-raising practitioner and being evaluated evaluating my staff of value, winning my programs and being evaluated myself it’s very difficult to have that kind of evaluation that comes out so late and doesn’t correspond to my fiscal year, so our benchmark is solid and consistent. Once you set the benchmark, then you’re measuring velocity and trajectory, and our benchmark comes out monthly so that i’m able to compare it to my fiscal year or practitioners compared to their fiscal year, and they can keep a monthly benchmark rather than having to wait till the end of june following the calendar year to find out okay, what the benchmark might be okay, but that’s rob mitchell and he’s, the ceo of atlas of giving and also my other guest is bob evans remember the editorial board of giving us a and we’re talking about last year’s numbers let’s move to some of the sectors bob, you and atlas, i should say you and giving us a agree that hyre ed and donor advised funds did very well, so big increases in two thousand eleven. Absolutely, i want you to talk a little about that. Why? Why you think that is? Well, i believe tremendous growth of dollars for donor advised funds is a reflection of support from middle income america in particular, who are you talking away dollars in donor advised funds because they haven’t been satisfied with the transformational projects that non-profits air presenting their banking future charitable support so you think charities or not, motivating donors sufficiently outside hyre ed, i think even in hyre ed, i think all of the categories in the nonprofit world have to reexamine what they’re asking of donors, and they need to be showing impact in transformation, and then we’ll end up seeing better. E-giving rob mitchell, what’s your take on the two sectors well increased, i think first of all, back to donor advised funds this extraordinarily good year, you know, seventy five percent increase for vanguard, eighty one percent increase for fidelity that can’t be a one year change like that cannot be explained by a change in sentiment donor-centric mint, it is specifically tied to the economy to teo economic and demographic factors. I think that what bob saying played a role, but i don’t think that was a major. Role i think the major role was the ramp up in the stock market buy-in in two thousand eleven, but why would that money go to dahna advice funds instead of directly to one of the sectors that i do not have an explanation for it, actually, and that’s, where bob is saying that he feels charities or not, people are giving, but they’re not giving directly to the charities, right, bob? Because charity’s air not motivating and moving donorsearch efficiently, i think there’s another factor to and that is when you look carefully at some of the people who are creating or funding donorsearch vice funds, they’re doing it in lieu of creating family foundation shin i wouldn’t be with that, okay, that that that major dollars going into donorsearch vice funds enables donors teo beam or anonymous i having less paperwork to file and on considerably cheaper. Setting up a private family foundation is a very expensive endeavour, right? And it requires a lot of legal activity to write on dh considerable oversight and there’s the required spending let’s, let’s look a little bit a new area that is losing market share consistently. Bob will just stay with you religion is suffering right and has been for a while a tte one point half of all giving was directed teo houses, of course. How long ago was that? Half probably about twenty to twenty five years. Ok? And how about now? What’s happening? Thirty two percent of all reported e-giving goes the houses of worship. And how does that compare to last two? Two thousand ten down down about how much? Uh, it’s down a couple of percentage points down in total dollars as well. Okay, especially the pie has gotten bigger. Okay, rob mitchell, what is what is the palace of giving see around religion? Well, we’re religion is still it gives to religion overall are still growing. We’re not showing any decrease, but they’re not the proportionately speaking e-giving growth and religion is not keeping pace with the others declining. In other words, declining market share is definitely declining markets here and their three reasons we believe for that. Well, tell us just one, because we only have a couple of minutes and i want to look a little look a little ahead with you two. So give us your main reason. Well, demographics have changed. Their church membership is declining in the u s that’s that’s one okay, important and younger people are not as motivated by religion or or its institutions at least a zolder people alright and their religion this past year was greatly affected by on high unemployment because they rely typically on lots of small gifts from okay, rob mitchelson, i think the other factor too, is that houses of worship for the least sophisticated in their fund-raising technology and an approach and expertise and complicity of america have not been trained properly like seo fund-raising not a sophisticated intelligent. Okay, all right, all right, rob, we take just maybe thirty seconds or so since yours is a forward looking model. What’s your forecast for two thousand twelve. So the calendar year forecast updated just a week or so ago is that we’re looking at an increase of four and a half percent for total national e-giving in two thousand twelve dahna the unfortunate part is that we probably have experienced the best growth we’re goingto have were showing that e-giving growth is going to begin to decline dramatically in the last quarter of the year and looking ahead of the first half of twenty thirteen, uh, things could get pretty ugly. We have to leave it there on ugly note, but there are brightstep lots, and we talked about those as well. Bob evans is a member of the editorial board of giving yusa. Rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving gentlemen, thank you very much, thank you, tony. Thanks, bob, thank you all, bob. Thank you, rob. Thank you as well. Right now, we take a break when we returned tony’s take to stay with you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com duitz welcome back, it’s. Time for tony’s take to my block this week is if you’re going to give, you got to take time off. You all work in the charitable sector in some respect either ceo or fundraiser or boardmember or something else. But the charitable sector, by definition is, is giving and in order to be most effective at giving to others, i believe you have to give to yourself and take for yourself. And what i blogged about is taking time off whether your work is in education or shelter or giving a voice to the marginalized. I believe you’ll be better at it if you take time for yourself, and that may be just something like word games or crushing an afghan, um, or doing puzzles or maybe a full vacation, but whatever it is that you need to take care of yourself, i suggest you do it for me. It’s a lot of running and some weight lifting, and i have ah, second home and i have a lovely hot tub there. So those are some of the things that i indulge in whatever you choose to indulge in, please do it without a phone next. To you, break away from the grid, go offline and take time for yourself. And that was my block this week, which is at tony martignetti dot com also want to remind you that we have a linked in group. You can give me direct feedback about the show if you have suggestions for the show suggestions for guests or show ideas even without a specific person, please, the linking group is a perfect place for that, and that is tony’s take two for friday, june twenty second, the twenty fifth show of the year and in three weeks on july thirteenth, my one hundredth show coming up just three weeks and scott was going to be on that show. Scott kottler how are you? I’m good. I’m preparing for the show right now, tony. Excellent. Ok, well, you actually should be preparing for the current show right now. Oh, i forgot about that. All right, scott koegler, of course. Our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, which you will find at n p tech news. Dot com. And this month, scott and i are talking about video. How come, scott wise video? Why is video? Important? Uh, all you have to do is look at you to see that number one. It is popular medium. Everybody wants to be. I have video and produced video, you know, it’s kind of the fulfillment of of a youth dream for a lot of people. A lot of a lot of frustrated actors, frustrated actors and directors. You mean absolutely, absolutely. Okay, but but it can be valuable in telling your your charities story. It could be valuable in in a lot of places, certainly on the website and sometimes just as kind of a lead in as being something active. Your log in page on your main screen, people like to see things moving. Obviously. Okay, so the trick is, you know, putting something out there, that’s worth what’s the hard part, okay? And i want teo tell listeners that tech soup had a webinar caldnear non-profit video one o one, which are social media manager regina walton found and we’re going to put a link to that women are which is a video on the facebook page and also in the linked in group after the show. So look for that tick soup. Thanks. You blink. So, scott, there are sites that will help people with video, you know, video isn’t necessarily what we normally have thought about his video, another somebody sitting in front of a camera or even motion pictures, if you will, it can be still pictures kind of assembled as a moving slideshow, maybe even annotated with voice or with that ak ground music. So there are a lot of things that pass for video, and they don’t have to be unnecessarily difficult to do, and i think that’s the main thing here is they shouldn’t be tough because if they are tough and you’re not an expert at producing them, then they’re they’re not going to be worth while watching. Okay, you gotta watch out for that, especially if you’re putting him on the home page of your of your of your blogger or your charity’s website right now, it’s a lot of us now, you know, is were attending events or just just doing things are our phones with us that have cameras in? Then we carry little video recorders or your cell phone and has a video camera and it’s and so there it turns out that there are lots and lots of real short length video or just still images. I mean, just look att facebook, facebook now houses. I think the last number i saw was that sixty percent of all the pictures ever taken ever and are on facebook pretty stunning. That’s incredible, yeah, crazy that’s an end and youtube i don’t know something like there are tens of millions of upload to youtube a day zag goring number of video uploads their alright but right and so and so we all have these devices that you’re talking about. Everybody’s got a phone so it’s like p r in your pocket, right? When when? When your charities doing something documented and so what kind of help can you get teo to create? Ah, moving slideshow or or a video on the web? There are many applications there things like i photo and there’s, i think it’s my movie and there’s a win win movie or when editor stuff like that. So depending on the platform that you’re on you khun, just look in your in your program files and find something there and those who work. Those were pretty good they can take your video clips. And you can kind of piece together what they still rely on you doing something and being a little bit technical and saying, ok, how do i put this year? I don’t make transitions between images or between video clips on howto synchronize music and there there are several either free or pretty inexpensive talking about either free or maybe for fifty dollars a year. Um, maybe up to five hundred dollars, you know, if you really want to get some superb results, kind of list off a couple of them, but yeah, that’s what? I love to go free and wait because this right, we haven’t. Article of this on on pitak news. Just go there and look for the for making videos. But the first one talk about an emoto hay and i m o tio dot com and essentially you go there and you log in and create an account. Then you could get the free account just to test it out. The only difference, really, between free and paid account the length of the video think free videos, thirty seconds or something. Which may actually be plenty. Yeah again for for a website the banner on your home page people aren’t going to sit and watch a two minute video, i don’t think, but right thirty seconds and then i mean, there, there for another reason, but something that’s engaging and, like you said, may even just be a slideshow thirty seconds is probably enough, and for a small charity, you know, you stick with what’s free. So the ladies all work is that you assemble your pictures, whether they’re on facebook or or flicker or, you know, one of the other photo on video sharing sites, and then you log into francis an emoto and you say creative video, and then it says, ok, what do you want to include in your video? And you simply select the images that are already uploaded? Or you can upload new ones if you have them on your computer, so it makes it really and, uh, at that point, then you pick a theme, so if it’s a party or if it’s an event they have these pre configured seems ok, and they also have pre configured music. So in essence, you khun select, you know, twenty or thirty images or a couple of video clips, uh, collect them together listselect style listselect music and the service will go ahead and create a set of trans so what’s, really magical is synchronized. Those with the beat of the music, which is something that would take a lot of time manually. In fact, that’s just bringing the transition manually is beyond what i what i ever do with my videos. So so it’s really value and getting some high production value from these, okay? And you can do that that’s an emoto dot com. And you could do that for free for up to thirty seconds. I think the Numbers 30 seconds. I don’t get me wrong. They’re but a short. All right, is there? Ah, you have others there’s a couple of hours and i just kind of rattle these off. I’m less familiar with, um but i know that they have the same basic kind of thing. You upload pictures and that creates it. Does other work for you. One is gulag ster g l o g dafs e r. Okay, i happen to know that one. That one does have a free. That one has a free offering also, right? Yeah, i think i think that’s. Actually, all free. Okay. I don’t think paid offering. Okay, uh, there’s one called kids. Okay, i o a and that has multiple levels. Has got a free version and also has, i think it’s fifty dollars for two years. Okay, so that’s pretty so free or cheap. I mean, twenty five dollars, a year. He’s. That thing that looks good. That zoho there’s there’s. Another one called duitz. Stupid flex flex. I’m not sure if they’re supposed to mean stupid or stupendous, but u p l i x and that’s. Actually. Probably the most expensive one, but also has a lot of additional capabilities. But it’s five dollars per month. Basic price all the way up to almost sixty dollars per month. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you have to. I want to get some experience before your excellency. Yeah, okay, but they still have a little cost offering. And ah, bunch of these air free. Okay, excellent. Actually. So i tell you what, we’ll put links to all those on the facebook page and also on the lincoln group as well as that text webinar that i that i mentioned earlier. So we look for look for those resources on the facebook page and linked in group um, well, so we still have more time. Scott, what were going to say about video what’s your advice? Do it. I would say media mean, everyone takes pictures of their events of their staff if you just want to show, you know, pictures of the causes that you’re supporting, gather them together and just do something you’ll probably get well, you definitely get some experience. You may get some good feedback from the people that are watching and that’s kind of where you take it from there is, how did they do? Did they get it enhanced the site that people like it has been asking for more or different kind of content and just say the first thing to do is just put something together, get it up there and see what the reaction is, okay? And setting up a youtube channel is a pretty simple endeavor, right? If if you don’t want to put this on the block. Sure, sure, youtube channels a good thing, but like anything, it’s, youtube channels depend on kind of regular updates, just like if you’re putting together a vlog, you have to make it change the add things to it on a pretty frequent basis. And that’s that’s, that’s what the youtube channels are all about other that you can certainly store videos on youtube and then, you know, present them on your website on your block. Ok, right. So so you could have multiple videos now that we know we can do this for free. And we know that a short video is works fine, and we know that these sites are so full featured, we could end up having numerous videos and, like you said, save them on youtube and then rotate them, rotate their appearance on the block her you could also post them as updates. You know, people love to see themselves, right? Well, most people like to see themselves as long as they’re not doing crazy things. But if you have events, i think that’s probably the very best use of these is to have events, uh, walk around with a camera or with a little with your phone, and you talk to people on record what you’re talking about and then kind of peace together, right? As videos and yeah, those become real popular. Okay again. P r in your pocket. It’s. There we’ll take a break. We’ll take a break, and when we return, scott koegler stays with us, and i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific yes, who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a. M eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Talking. Welcome back to the tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re talking about video with scott koegler, our regular contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, which is that n p tech news dot com scott so since everybody has these phones, i mean, we could be empowering people within the charity who work for us or volunteer for us. They could be composing video no, exactly, or at least contributing. So if again i go back to the event situation, if you have a bunch of people there, which i guess is really what you want. Anyhow, it is an event. Yeah, hopefully it is not standing in a room like yourself, right? Right? So have people walk around and make their own to make their own little video clips? Have them document what is going on? And at the end of the event, uh, sent out an email asking everyone for their whatever their contributions might be on. Then you’ve got not only fast that you’ve got a diverse range of of the points, and i’m thinking, not unlike what what couples do at weddings. You could probably put some low cost video device on tables or something at the event don’t know. Is there such a thing of low cost video capture device? I’m sure they don’t, you know depends on what you call low cost, probably fifty dollars or so, but i think i think it’s a pretty good assumption that that half the people at any given function i’m goingto have video enabled smart bones. Oh, yeah, yeah, right, they’ll have their own as well, right? Yeah. So that’s, you know, that’s planning what you want to do is, uh, kind of in the invitation or in the announcement or along, even on twitter, if they’re live blogging, be sure you get get the announcement out that once you’re done worth your images and your video, send them here and, you know, a lot of the phones will actually take take images and videos and send them right there, right? When, according to your phone, it’s already connected to the internet. So say, share and you share it off with a particular destination email account. Okay, excellent. And then you’ve got, um, you know, pretty much, right? What? Okay, every once in a while i don’t know if you if it’s you stopping or we get well, a little sound. You sound like darth vader. I don’t you probably you’re not doing a darth vader imitation. Our impression, are you? Well, i’ll take the helmet off here. Okay? I’ve seen pictures of you. You don’t look like darth vader to me, but which is, which is, which is a positive. Okay, but just it’s nothing you’re doing. I don’t think, but just in case the listeners are concerned. But he’s not doing a darth vader impression and way here, it also but there’s really nothing we can do about it. Okay, so, yeah, i was going to ask you about sharing the video. So what about are there other other ways of sharing the video? I mean, if the phone is not enabled to share that way, or maybe the video is too long, i know i face that on my phone. Sometimes i can’t share a video that i’d like to what’s what? Maybe drop box or something? What’s. Another way of getting video back to the charity. Sure. First of all, you have to get it off your phone on and i’ll leave that to yeah, the knowledge of the person with the phone. That’s probably want to do to kind of figure out what it’s for for many different phones were basically, somehow you gotta plug it into your computer and move that that video file over to the computer. And then, of course, you can email it. Um, you know, one of the things you talk about there’s the size of the video files, right? And that’s typically what prevents you from sharing it from your phone? And i would suggests that any video quick should be under five seconds overviewing walk home. Recording video. Yeah, because you’re looking at a little clip, right? When we put this video together, if it’s only going to be thirty seconds long, how long can each individual could be? Uh, right. Okay. I was envisioning. Yeah, i was thinking of longer clips, but now, right. Okay, so you want people to send you a bunch of short? Sent a bunch of short clips, right? And you see, here is a little secret. If you look at any video production movie, a television production, anything, just take a look and see quickly the scenes transition. You’ll find that most most scenes, uh, except for soliloquies or something like that are really just a couple of seconds. So it’s not unusual. It’s it’s the norm. In fact, they have very, very short video clips. Okay, all right, well, this is why scott koegler this is why you’re the the show’s technology contributor. You’re thinking about these things, andi. I was so my thinking was erroneous, all right? And, you know, you could empower volunteers as well. Oh, are people who are benefiting from your services? I mean, they could be armed with a video phone, right? And those are the kind of tell your story kind of thing. So if your if you are let’s say you’re an animal shelter and you got volunteers at the animal shelter or you’ve got people who have a dahna dead animals, you know, every one of those with a story unto itself, many of them may be, you know, pretty inspirational. So if you got your animal home and it’s working out great, you know, ask them to go ahead and take a shot of the of their situation and send it in you. Khun chop it up, put some pictures in it and added to it, you could have a simple contest like tell, you know, tell us your story in twenty seconds or thirty seconds, right, exactly on have a small prize for people or something. All right, all right, excellent way have just about thirty seconds left. Any parting suggestion you want to leave people with, uh, i would say the biggest thing is just do it, do it out. Do it. Um, you know, take videos, take images and intermix both of those things together. Don’t do one or the other, although if all you have is his images that still works. Okay, you get out there. Excellent. Good to talk to you, scott, and we’ll talk to him three weeks on the hundredth anniversary, our hundredth show. All right, thanks, tony. Take care. Thank you. My pleasure. Also, my thanks, tio, rob mitchell and bob evans for being guest this week. Next week. Board effectiveness. Gail gifford is the author of making your board dramatically more effective starting today. But you’ll have to wait till you hear the show you can’t you can’t start today, so next week you’ll be able to start today or the day you hear it. So actually, maybe she should change the name of the book, i don’t know, but that may be overreaching anyway. We’re going to talk about making your board more effective, starting quickly with gail gifford next week, and i’ll have a fund-raising day interview with paul clolery he’s, the editor in chief of the non-profit times we’re all over the social networks, you can’t make a click without smacking your head into tony martignetti non-profit radio you want to know who’s going to be on the show? Sign up for our weekly insider email alerts on the facebook page we’re unlinked in you can offer ideas for shows and make comments each week and look for the resource is that we just talked about with scott on facebook and linkedin this week. You can listen live our archive, which means we’re on itunes itunes you find us at non-profit radio dot net on twitter you can follow me and you can use the show’s hashtag non-profit radio my thanks! Telenet singleton for her, tweeting today, as she very often does. Thanks linette, a most attractive on foursquare. You can connect with us, connect with me there. Our creative producer was clear miree off. Sam liebowitz is the line producer of the show show. Social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules help you be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern at talking alternative dot com. I think a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, itching to get anything. Duitz how’s your game. Want to improve your performance, focus and motivation than you need. Aspire, athletic consulting, stop second guessing yourself. 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076: Looking At Giving, 2011 & 2012 and Breaking The Mold In Traditional Endowment Design – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving

Kathryn Miree, president of Kathryn W. Miree & Associates and Turney Berry, attorney at Wyatt Tarrant & Combs

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

View Full Transcript
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Durney hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio your aptly named host it’s january twenty seventh twenty twelve i hope you were with me last week because what you would have heard and if you weren’t, this is what you missed revel in real estate. Chase magnuson of george washington university and alan thomas from the american college had small and midsize non-profits in mind, as they described howto identify prospects for real estate gif ts also how to cultivate, solicit and negotiate thes gif ts what is the due diligence that’s required to keep your charity safe from a crummy real estate gift? Also board oversight basics jean takagi are regular legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco to find oversight and explained how it should be executed to protect your charity and your board members, and that it was the first part of a conversation that will continue in february. This week, looking at giving twenty eleven and twenty twelve with me will be robbed. Mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving to talk about two thousand eleven’s giving by sector source and maybe even state, and we’ll also look ahead to predictions for this year, then breaking the mold in traditional endowment design from the national conference on philanthropic planning last year, catherine miree, consultant and attorney attorney berry look at alternatives to endowment design that are rooted in lawsuits, latto changes and difficulties implementing donor for pus is that have arisen with the way down. Mints are traditionally set up between the segments, as always, tony’s take to my block this week. You don’t need the fancy stuff for your plant e-giving the most sophisticated gifts are not necessary to have a very successful and appropriate plan giving program for your charity. I thought this was going to be last week’s blawg, but i messed up with some of the pre recordings, so look for that this week and i’ll say more about it on tony’s take two between the guests. We’re live tweeting this show as we do every week use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter this show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services i’m very grateful for their support right now we take a break, then i’ll be joined by rob mitchell of atlas of giving. And we’re going to talk about looking at giving last year and this. So stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m joined now by rob mitchell, ceo of atlas of giving, which you’ll find it atlas of giving dot com. Rob has twenty nine years working in and around non-profits as a fundraiser and executive and also a consultant, he is, as i said, ceo of atlas, of giving atlas e-giving measures analyzes and forecasts us charitable, giving monthly by sector source and state. I’m very pleased that his work brings him to the show. Robert, you’re welcome. Thanks. Tony is good to be with you. It’s. A pleasure to have you, um, tell us about the atlas of giving methodology to do these look backs and also predictions of charitable giving. I’ll be happy to the atlas of giving started. Actually, when i was a practitioner, i was chief development officer of the american cancer. So society i was named in that position in june of two thousand won our fiscal year started at the society in september one and then september eleventh the world changed for all of us. Our ceo called me that day and asked me what this meant for giving at the american cancer society acid john i couldn’t possibly know, but they can’t be good, and i’m just not sure how bad it’s going to be or how long it’s going to last. A year later, we felt very pleased that we had finished a bubble of flat, and when describing our success to our board, one of the board members said, well, how do you know you did so well? And we had information from a handful of other charitable organizations nationwide charity organizations, i mentioned those in a the boardmember said, well, that’s, just anecdotal information, isn’t there a benchmark that you can compare our results too? Well, the truth is that a benchmark existed, but it was only annual and it only came out six. It only comes out six months after the calendar year ends. You’re referring to giving yusa yes, i am. So that conversation bothered me, and then this boardmember followed up with me later and said, you know, it strikes me that charitable giving is tied to certain factors in the economy, and if you can figure out what those factors are, you might be able to measure charitable giving on a more timely basis so way initially, while i was still at the society. I had my research team there look into this and other things took priority. Bottom line is we didn’t we didn’t have the time or the energy to pursue it very long moved on to other things. I left this when i left the society in two thousand nine. This was one of the things that was troubling me that i really wanted to get a direct answer to i stayed with you thie idea stayed with you for eight years. It did it did. And so, um, my, uh, we started a company called philanthropy max, and one of the first things that my business partner and i decided to do was to pursue this. So we hired a team of twenty five phd level researchers and analyst and we gave them some variables to look at. They added to the list, the list they looked at was over seventy different economic and demographic variables and and forty two years of published annual e-giving data um, so that’s what they had to work with, they came back a few weeks later, and they said, well, this is remarkable. We have identified what factors are involved what? What economic and demographic factors are involved with us charitable giving. And we’ve developed an algorithm and we check our algorithm against forty two years of published data. We have a correlation rate of ninety nine and a half percent. And the good thing, tony, was that those out of those seventy variables that we started with it boiled down to just a handful and those air variables that are reported monthly or quarterly. So we had a way finally to measure charitable giving as it occurs in the united states. But that was aggregate giving, and that was we started giving away the atlas of e-giving in two thousand ten, and it was just the the national number, the aggregate national number. But we did it on a monthly basis. And by the way, we were also able to create a forecast based on those variables and the formula that we developed. But we wanted to go further. We wanted to have information monthly on sectors so arts, education, religion so forth, their eight different sectors and sources, individuals, foundations, corporations and the quest. And then we also really wanted to add to it states so we sent the research team that assignment, and they came back a few weeks later, and we were able to crack the code all with, uh, what we call up, um, correlation percentages well above ninety percent for everything and most cases well above ninety five percent. So a sense. So essentially, what we have is the ability to measure charitable giving as it occurs in the u s by sector source and stayed on a monthly basis and then forecast to up up to a year in advance. All right, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we want to talk about some of these variables that are in there, and i don’t know if we can get you to reveal the number fromthe seventy, but we’ll see how far we can go. And then, of course, we do want to talk about what e-giving look like last year and what it’s ah forecast to look like this year. So rob mitchell will join me after the break. He’ll stay with me, and i hope you do too. They couldn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternate network waiting to get in you could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall. This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr robert panna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Duitz welcome back. We are looking at giving two thousand eleven in two thousand twelve with rob mitchell, the ceo of atlas, of giving rob, what are some of the factors that were identified from these this big group of seventy before i get into specifics? One thing i will tell you, tony, is that the economic and demographic factors that affect one part of giving aren’t not the same ones that affect other parts of e-giving ok, things like gifts from individuals, uh, have a have a different set of factors than then gifts from corporations. The formula for the education sector is very different from the formula for the art sector. So the sum of the eiken without giving away any secrets. Sausage, everybody. I think everybody for years has understood that there is a relation. There has been a relationship between gross domestic product in the us and charitable giving their other factors that that are involved in different things, and they involve everything from stock prices, toe home prices to earnings to consumer confidence. There there there are a lot of different there are many different factors, but interestingly free sector for each source for each state. The number of factors affecting those various things are actually a pretty small. They’re different from sector to sector source to sort the source, the source and state to state. But each one of those the formula, the factors involved in each of those individual formulas is a pretty small number. And so now are your algorithms, um, patented is that is that appropriate to patent something like this way thought so and way. Obviously, when we crack the code, we rushed right down to a patent lawyer. And the long and the short of it was, he said, your coca cola and we said, what does that exactly mean? And he said, well, if you if you publish, if you if you patent something, it has to be published and even in the application process there’s some things which are revealed. And he said that would give it away. So coca cola, believe it or not, has never patented their formula for coca cola over the years. So, uh, on legal advice, we were advised that in this case, for this particular type type of formula, it would not be wise for us to patent it. And you had an honest attorney who said you don’t need my help, pretty much ok, i love that alright, so that’s let’s dive into some of these numbers overall? What? What are the conclusions from two thousand eleven? And then we’ll look, you know, we look at some specifics, but generally, well, i think the biggest story for two thousand eleven is that we experienced a real resurgence in giving in two thousand eleven, and the resurgence wass far outpaced the growth in the economy. This is one of those years where the folks who have tried to make strong correlations between gdpr charitable giving are going to be a little off quit because e-giving grew and two thousand eleven, two, three hundred forty’s over three hundred forty six billion dollars that’s a seven and a half percent increase over the two thousand ten number. Now, when you consider the fact that and the final numbers, they’re not in on gdpr for for two thousand eleven, but when they do come in, they’re going to be some where it’ll be probably in a range of between one and a half and one point eight percent growth in gdp, so you can see the charitable giving really did well, and there were some there was some important reasons for that. Okay, well, um let’s hold off on some of the reasons, i think because i want to get into some more of the conclusions and but before we do that, even what i think is kind of exciting is we don’t have to wait six months from the end of the year for for the giving us a report to come out. No, the in fact, the report is posted on our alice e-giving website right now. So, um, we have we have we offer three products. The first one is called out with standard and it is available for free with a subscription. And then we have atlas, professional and that’s everything monthly by sector sources state. Then we have we have something called atlas custom. Our technology enables us to build custom benchmarking and predictive models for individual non-profits to identify what particular economic and demographic factors effect they’re giving. But because your methodology is so much different than e-giving yusa, which is based on surveys, we have something much quicker than then. June, i guess, is when that typically comes. Out yes and way think are we think our technology has other advantages as well? There are other than giving us say, there are other indexes and surveys and blackbaud has won, yeah, and most of those air based on, um, a group of customers that sort of fit a profile, and they’re not necessarily representative of all sectors for of very small charities or very large charities. Um, the survey kind of methodology is important, and i don’t i don’t want to diminish the fact that surveys air important, but there are things related to my background which i know happen in the survey process, which can be troubling over time. And when i was at the american cancer society, just as an example, as a matter of board policy, we we did not disclose our e-giving information on a contemporary basis. Of course, we filed the nine nineties and those sorts of things did annual reports, but in terms for competitive reasons are bored felt like it was it was important for us not to participate in those kinds of survey let’s. Look let’s, look at the prediction for two thousand twelve you’re predicting ah, just under four. Percent growth yes, the current forecast is two thousand twelve will finish the year with with about three hundred and sixty billion dollars in total e-giving and that would be a three point nine percent increase over two thousand eleven. But like any forecast, and we update our forecasts each month, right? So as these as the as the factors or the are reported each month, because you’re basing them on government supply data, then you you change your your forecast for each month. Well, and there are other things that happened as well, okay, look like thousand won is a great example. Two thousand one was was a very good giving year for most organizations until september eleven things changed dramatically after that. So you’re able to factor in world events like that, i guess world events, whether yeah, and whether they’re man made or natural disasters, tax policy changes, changes in government, all kinds of things, um, those things are all taken to account, so in terms of the forecast we updated each month, and so if we get it just as an example, if we get a severe weather event of some of some kind, that the severe natural disaster. Say an earthquake in someplace. Hey, that’s going to be good? It could be overall, actually good for the charitable giving economy, depending on what kind of event it is. Because people there’s an outpouring, obviously. And things like the indonesian tsunami and the haitian earthquake. Sure, there was a huge outpouring. But the thing to remember is that the charitable giving economy is complex, and so, um and and it’s somewhat defined so that disaster relief organizations benefit uh, a great deal during times of the those kinds of disasters. But that money has to come from somewhere. And usually it comes from other places and there’s some additive. But it usually comes from other organisms. Other non disaster organizations. Let’s, look at some of the sectors for two thousand eleven. So the arts sector how how did that fair last year? The the, uh, art sector, if you bear with me for just a moment. Sure got eight, eight sectors here to look over. The art sector was up for the year. Six point eight percent and the forecast for next year is for it to finish up five point two percent, which is better. Than the than the forecast for the aggregate national e-giving and but then their results this year weren’t quite as good as the aggregate national number. Yes. Okay. And what about you have ah, sector called society benefit? What is that? The society benefit is his organization’s, um, usually passed through organizations like united way? Uh, those those kinds of organizations would be included in society benefit jewish federations, those sorts of things. Okay, just a reminder for our listeners. I’m with rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. We’re talking about looking at giving two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve. How did those society benefit organizations do? In last year, they were almost at the national average, up seven point three percent and they’re projected to be almost at the national average next year. Five point zero percent okay, so pretty steady, but then religion i see has been, uh, losing market share. Religion has been losing market share and that’s been a trend that is that has continued for a number of years. Religion did not finish as strong as the nation did in two thousand eleven. Oppcoll let me get to that number really quickly, so recision was up, but not as much as the overall that’s correct, it was up six point five percent, but here’s the interesting thing for the forecast. For next year, it’s only forecast to grow less than half half of the national growth rate for giving so it’s projected to be up one point six percent and thousand twelve what’s the current market share current market shortages um, thirty five percent and how many years has it been since that’s? What you said several, but do we know when that when the decline in market share began? I don’t have that at my fingertips, like certainly get you that information? Because i don’t have that at my fingertips, do we? Don’t you know that there was a declining market share this year? Okay? And it dropped one percent from thirty six percent down to thirty five percent this past year. All right. And what do you expect for next year? Are you able to forecast that market share? Yes, we are able to forecast the market share. And so now i was i was misstated. Religion went religion was at thirty seven percent in two thousand ten. It was a thirty six percent in two thousand eleven, and it looks like if things go according to the forecast that it could be as low as thirty five percent next year. Okay, do we know where that where those dollars air going and again, it’s not a zero sum game, but do you have a sense of that, or not? Really? Well, you know, we we look at lots of different news and information about a lot of different things, and one of the things that’s no secret is that mainline churches in the u s have been losing membership, and it continues to be a problem for them, so that certainly is a contributing factor. The one thing that has not helped religion this past year and this is true of a lot of organizations that rely on lots of small gifts from lots of small donors, is that unemployment as a factor, has been particularly significant because when people fear being unemployed or they are unemployed, they discontinue their giving and often don’t resume their giving until they’ve had a chance to catch up after being re employed of course, like ours and furniture and clothes and taking vacations. That have been put off paying off debt, etcetera? Yes, so that that lags actually from the so the giving of a lag from a change from a decrease in the unemployment rate. Yes. Okay. Okay. Let’s, look a little at some of the sources, and i know you’re able tto look at individual foundation corporate m bequest. What happened to individual giving last year? Individual e-giving i was actually really, really good this past year. Individual e-giving was up. Um a little hang on one second. Let me get to that information. Individual giving was up seven point eight percent, slightly better than the national average. And the individual e-giving forecast for next year is pretty close to what we forecast for the aggregate it’s three point seven percent. Okay. And what was the just the overall dollar amount of individual giving for last year? Two hundred sixty point one. Eight billion. And that represents what percentage of total giving? Seventy five percent has that seventy five percent been pretty steady. It has been very study. It is. Okay. Um, let’s, look at some others. So foundation giving what? What happened that last year? And what’s forecast foundation giving. Wasn’t quite as good as the national seven point five percent. It was up six point, two percent in two thousand eleven, but next year it’s forecast to be currently forecast to be better the national giving it’s it is forecast to go up six point three percent. So steady growth in foundation e-giving from two thousand eleven to two thousand twelve way have just a couple of minutes left. Rob this number’s a really interesting is only so much time we can spend on them. What about the bequest numbers? Tony? I had a feeling you were gonna ask me, i’ll as planned giving is in my heart, of course, save the best for last bequest giving was exactly up as the same amount as the national e-giving average, it was up seven point five percent. It isn’t, uh it isn’t keeping pace. In two thousand twelve, according to our forecast, it’s going to be up three point, zero percent, and, of course, these air realized request. This is not expected, of course, and what percentage of total giving is a bequest? Revenue bequest revenue is, uh seven percent. Okay. And that’s been steady. Is that right? Okay. Last thing i’m gonna ask you is just something maybe a little fun because that we just have, like thirty seconds or so left. Since you can do this by state what’s the one of the most and least generous states in the country. Well, the most generous states in two thousand eleven for pennsylvania, illinois and florida according to their growth rates, pennsylvania had experienced upward are experienced growth of eleven point eight percent. Illinois eleven point four percent florida ten point five percent ok, and how about the other end? Um, there are a whole group of states which were there. Isn’t there isn’t a clear leader at the bottom, if you will. Okay, all right, so we weigh don’t have time to really to go through the list. We don’t want to embarrass anybody, any state randomly, so we’ll just leave it at that and we do have to leave it there for a mitchell is ceo of atlas of giving, you’ll find it atlas of giving dot com we were spending time talking about looking at giving two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve rob thank you very much for being a guest. Tony it’s. Been great to be with you. Thank you, real pleasure in very interesting numbers. Thank you. Right now, we’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s take to stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour my block this week, which i thought was going to be my block last week, but it’s, not the block last week. It’s the block this week, so look for it this week. You don’t need the fancy stuff for your plan e-giving for small and midsize charities really having just a bequest marketing program and stopping there can be a very respectable planned e-giving program. First of all, bequests are where any program starts or irrespective of what your mission is or how big you are. You’re always going to start with requests because they’re the most popular planned gift expect about seventy five percent of your plan gifts to be bequests, and they’re easy for people to understand. Everybody knows what a will is, everybody needs a will. I may not have it, but everybody needs one and they know what one is so it’s an easy type of giving toe understand through a state plans and, um, for a lot of charities, that’s the place to end because you don’t need to spend money on expertise tohave people including you in their will so you could be going into real estate or the sophisticated trust or even charitable gift annuities, but you don’t have to don’t let a fear of the more sophisticated gift and the expertise required for some of them keep you away from inaugurating a plan giving program, start with requests and stopped there and it’s a very respectable and solid plan giving program, and that is tony’s take two for friday, january twenty seventh, the fourth show of two thousand twelve. Now i have breaking the mold in traditional endowment design to pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning last year and here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We are on the river walk in san antonio, texas. My guests right now are catherine miree attorney berry catherine is principal of katherine w miree and associates in birmingham, alabama, and attorney berry is a partner in law firm of wyatt, tarrant and combs in louisville, kentucky. Catherine durney welcome, thanks so much pleasure to have you. Your seminar topic is breaking the mold options in traditional endowment design. Catherine wanted to start with you. What the, uh what do we need to break the mold? What’s wrong with traditional design? Tony, i think if you look at the issues and lawsuits right now, where donors are suing charities, what it really reveals is that perpetual is a long time and it’s not entirely practical, to be very prescriptive in creating a long term funds to really look at the issues and talk about some of the solutions to the problems we see out there right now. Okay, durney, let’s, turn to the attorney. What are just some of the legal issues that we’re seeing in these lawsuits that katherine’s talking about right? Well, you you need to look at it from three different points of view. From the donor’s point of view. A planner and a charity are promising that they will do to certain things. And the donor believes him on the donor’s family believes them. And so the question is, can we really design an endowment that will work the way the donor wants over a very long period of time? Then you got issues from the charity’s pointed to it. Does it? Does a charity really want in particular endowment, particularly? If it’s if it’s very, very specific, it may be one thing if what you’re doing is saying we want teo, i had to pay for historical research. But if we say this is for research into the causes of world war i in one hundred years, that may not be something that the university say needs money for and the last, the last aspect that will be talking about is awareness of the effects on society. Is it good for us to have enormous accumulations and endowments? On the other hand, let’s suppose that we cut back on those for any of a variety of reasons. Is that good for society? They’re just complicated issues. And we like tio start people thinking about you and catherine a cz we’re getting into the topic. Let’s, let’s, define endowment. What were we talking about when we’re in these funds? What we mean that’s a great question to may endowment is any poo of fund set aside for the long term use of a charity or for charitable purposes? And so, in that respect, it could be what we all consider a traditional endowment at a university or hospital or any charity. Where the donor makes a gift to the charity and says, don’t spend the principal use only their earnings, or it could be a vehicle like a private foundation, which we see among a lot of the wealthy and a private foundation is perpetual and purpose, and it is, in truth, a pool of funds you’re required by law to distribute five percent of you’re investable assets that you but that’s an endowment, a supporting or could be an endowment, a donor advised funds could be an endowment, a charitable lied trust could be an endowment substitute. So these air all funds where the principle is invested in the earnings are used for charitable purposes, okay? But as attorney pointed out, the donor’s may have specific things that they want to fund, so if we’re going to be donor-centric shouldn’t we just allow them to do what they really want to do with their money and their gift? I love talking about donor-centric what that maims it doesn’t mean letting the donor run amok with a charitable purpose that would take a charity off mission, for example, attorney has a great example of that that makes me smile. Go ahead. Not my favorite one is let’s suppose that i wanted to go to my my church on tao, the singing of amazing grace. You can’t use the money to seeing how great thou art, but you can use it to sing amazing grace and some of the pastor says we’re going to do with that gift. We can have special robes for the singing of amazing grace. We could have a special rise or for the choir to sit to stand on, but all i’m really doing is disrupting the operation of the church and charity should be very sensitive to that, and i don’t, and somebody should come to me and say, well, it’s, wonderful that you like amazing grace and we can call the fund the amazing grace find, but but we just can’t administer a fun like that on a reasonable donors is going to go ahead and change that if you get some thoughtful back and forth and emphasizes his, catherine said the importance donor-centric donors want to help the mission of the endowment charity they’re they’re they’re working with, so you need to meld those, too. And catherine, if you’re attorney said, if the donor is reasonable and really wants to help the charity. Aren’t they going to be receptive to the explanation that that kind of purpose for an endowment just doesn’t suit us? Two of the things to the trends that i see that i think bear on this issue are one term endowments and to creating flexibility within the endowment and a method for or mechanism for change, i’ll give you a good example. I had a donor walk in and wanted to create a million dollar endowment for a program called success by six and the conversation i had with that does age six, i assume not six o’clock in the afternoon, right? Right, trying to do it in a day, six years success by six is an early childhood intervention education intervention program that catches kids when they’re three or four and prepares him tto learn and it’s a critical time in their lives and a lot of poor families. I don’t have that kind of support for children, and my question to the donor was, what are you really trying to accomplish? And when they said, i love these programs that go in and prepare young children, my response was let’s say that let’s don’t name a program that might not be here in a few years. Let’s talk about outcomes, let’s talk about what you want to do, so donors air prescriptive because they haven’t really thought of any other options, and i think our job is planners is to back him up a little bit and talk more about outcomes and purposes in terms, so we have options. We have the reflect, the limited term endowment and what was the other that you mentioned flexibility put in a plan b, a plan c in the event that the first purpose is no longer impactful? Effective makes okay now attorney in your work are you seeing donors who are receptive to these breaking the mold of what we’ve been doing for decades? Sure, let let let’s take, for example, and arts group the louisville orchestra if you have a donor who wants to benefit the louisville orchestra and wants to create a very long term endowment, it’s pretty easy to persuade the donor that a fund should be for the benefit or castro music in louisville, kentucky, an example of which is the level orchestra and that’s what? Should be funded first, but if one hundred years from now there’s some other something, then the larger purpose is funding live classical music and louisville today, we can’t really conceive of that it any other way than an orchestra that may be true in one hundred years, but but who knows? Education is another really good, and you have the issue of bankruptcy. Our orchestra and birmingham went bankrupt and took down with it a number of funds that donor said contributed so in attorneys example, what do you do? Have you protected the funds in one of our jobs? Is planners if we’re representing the donor, is to protect those funds for the use that they intended. So what do you do in that situation? And i hear that a lot from potential donors. What happens if the college or the orchestra doesn’t exist any longer? How do we protect the donor? Well, they’re they’re number of ways you could do that, one of which is you can put the assets the endowment in a separate organization in a philanthropic fund, a private foundation, a community foundation, a supporting or where it is not the charity’s directly, so that’s one way to do it another way is to have a gift over it’s a little extreme. What does that mean? Gift over way have jargon jail here on tony martignetti not probably don’t my antenna are always up when i’m with an attorney, right? Right? No way. What did you say left over as long as as long as that particular organization is doing x, then the endowment will be theirs. But if not, it will go over to a second organization. So the second organization has an incentive to police what the first organization is doing so let’s say let’s say that what i do is i create endowment for ah, for a hospital that’s supposed to be used to support it’s it’s women’s programs and for whatever reason, the hospital stopped doing that it goes in and becomes a long term care facility. If i have a gift over to another hospital, the other hospital is going to raise the red flag and say, oh, first hospital isn’t doing this anymore where’s our money? Well, that’s, a very that’s, a very good way to do it, and you’re finding non-profits are willing to accept that oversight. By another local non-profit i mean, but but because again they don’t they don’t think they’re ever going to get out of that business, and so it helps them do whatever it is they want to do. The harder ones, quite honestly, are something like a library where you have donors who really want to fund collections, and you have to have the very difficult conversation, particularly with elderly people, that collections may not be books, and they really don’t know when they say not books, they think, oh, it’s, going to be some endless room of computers and dvds and and a bunch of kids playing and this is not what we want to do, and you have to say, well, it’s, not entirely true, if, if in in, you know, the year one hundred somebody had endowed the creation of a pirate’s manuscript, you you would have wanted them to fund gutenberg, and they all kinda well, yeah, that’s, that’s, true, but but those air harder organizations, catherine let’s, take a step back and think about some smaller organizations that that really just wanted. Maybe they’re at the stage where they say we need to have an endowment. We want to start an endowment. What should they be thinking of our around the issues that you attorney are concerned about? I think the first place to start is the role of endowment, both internally. I always looking to cases for endowment. One is thie internal case. Why do we need an endowment, how we’re going to use it. So everybody over the board is saying, we need one, you want to, you want to question, why, okay? And why do you need one? And what is its role going? Tobe a and i don’t think people talk about that enough. And then that second case is washing donors. Invest in the endowment, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community oppcoll oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales or maybe better? Writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Told you. Durney what attorney, in terms of structuring endowment, from a legal perspective, what does the charity beginning that process need to be thinking of? Well, you you need to decide, is it going to be an internal endowment or an external in down there? You’re going to keep it on your books or are you going to create an organization or creative fund at a community ways you mentioned earlier, communiqu, conditional donorsearch vie, having donors use their own donor advised funds that said, ok, so what do you want in house or do you or do you not? And then what sort of what sort of restrictions are you going to impose? What sort of gifts are you going to solicit? One of the things that that i fine at least, is that often time, endowments and plan giving generally very unfortunately serves a work avoidance function, it is we’ve got somebody on staff or the board says, oh, we’ve got a lot of older donors we need to raise endowment dollars from them, but nobody really wants to go ask anybody for endowment money, so they say we’ll order some brochures and we’ll mail the brochures out and we’ll have a plan and we’ll have a committee, and at the end of the day, they’re shocked to discover that nobody gives any money and so they then divert the person to doing special events, and three or four years later, somebody on the board says, we need to get serious about endowment, and we start the process all over again, you know? Oh, and and and you see it when you look at resumes, most of the resumes among the smaller charities in certainly in our area there the plan giving officers have us much special event experience as they do playing e-giving experience the ones where you have success are the people who are committed, and they say, it’s future, we’re going after the future all of fund-raising at the end of the day, it’s just telling your story. And if you have people in the organization who aren’t comfortable telling the story, i e fund-raising that’s a problem kapin you’re shaking your head, as tony was saying, future anything you want to say they’re no, i agree, i agree with him. Absolutely. I generally look at annual operating annual fund-raising supporting operations plan giving and deferred giving supporting endowment because it’s a one time gift, it perpetuates the donor’s ongoing gift. We know that those gifts come from the most committed donors, so i don’t disagree with you. You know, i thought maybe you were shaking your head in chagrin over over organizations that might be doing what i do. I see it all the time. So how should we structure internally in terms of fund-raising to avoid the the problems that attorney is describing when we’re starting an endowment, campaign or program? You know, i think an endowment campaign on its own is the hardest thing any charity will ever do. I look at it as part of the bigger picture, part of the bigger case. Two donors that they need to invest now and in the future, i see. I really think having people the son to play e-giving and having the disciplined allocate those gifts to endowment as quasi endowment, which is bored. Allocated as opposed to donor ellicott. Ok, let’s, talk a little about that quasi endowment. That was okay, too. Real types of endemic one is true endowment. That is where the donor places to restrictions on those funds that you cannot spend the principal. You may only use the earnings. The other is quasi endowment, and quasi is bored. Allocated endowment. That means the gift comes in without the restrictions. But the board itself places an endowment because it has the discipline to do that. And that is the easiest way. Oh, so that’s that’s an unrestricted gift that might just be a thousand dollar annual gift. It’s and the board makes a difficult decision. Yes, to not spend it right and put it into its true endowment. Right. And, you know the other argument i usually give, charity says if you budget a state gifts, you are basically budgeting death and that it’s a little tricky in terms of the unrestricted gifts being allocated to endowment by the board. Is there ah, policy or a guideline that you like to see a certain percentage of unrestricted gifts being devoted to endowment? I look at it. Mohr is all the testamentary gifts. The things that are triggered by the death of the donor. If the charity will put one hundred percent of those an endowment, it will basically in tao in many cases, the donor’s annual gift i wanted to. See have all that discipline and then if they need, if you have policies it’s, goingto be howto we withdraw some of those funds, but how do we use them that’s so hard to do, though in especially in the midst of a recess? Shin still, but attorney, i see you nodding. You agree it is, but you could never make any progress. It seems to me if you’re if you are always having to find new donors, you want to be able to tell the story two new people every year, but you want to continue to capture the story of our capture, the people you’ve already told story too. So if you’ve got a donor who gives you a thousand dollars a year, if you could get ten thousand dollars as a request or is a longer term gift of some sort, then this is good because they’ve basically funded their gift and now i can go after the next person aunt, i can actually expand and grow and develop in a way that it’s very difficult to do if you every year are starting from scratch. Of course, catherine, as our consultant, we know that the cost of acquiring a new donor is considerably greater than e-giving follow-up gift from an existing it isthe and i look at it it’s maximizing the donor’s role with the charity. If they are giving to you every year, you need to make that ask that they give in perpetuity and many of them will you’re not going to find people walking around on the streets that there going to make it down my gifts that haven’t that don’t have any other connection to your charity know you’re looking for that commitment in terms of and doesn’t that commitment. Evenflo teo two donors who were giving it small levels, right? Let’s, talk a little about that. Catherine. I see direct mail organizations whose average gifts eyes on an annual basis is very low. They don’t have those hi n major gifts, and yet there is committed and they might leave an average of st gift of thirty or forty thousand. It may not be as large as the major gift donors, but it’s significant, no charity would turn that what? So look to your small giving your donors were making small gifts, but doing it consistently maybe that zach decade arm or decades? Sometimes we see in longstanding organism right best the number one indicator, and what i have learned is that many of those donors make their only major gift at death because they can’t afford to do it doing like we have to leave it there been with katherine miree principle of katherine w miree and associates in birmingham, alabama, and turny bury a partner in a law firm, wyatt, tarrant and combs in louisville, kentucky. Catherine, attorney welcome. Thank you very much for being here. Thanks. Enjoyed the topic was breaking the mold options in traditional endowment designing your listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on films about the planning two thousand eleven. That was my interview with katherine miree internee berry from the national conference on philanthropic planning on breaking the mold in traditional endowment design. I want to thank everybody this week, my thanks to rob mitchell for being a guest on dh catherine miree and turny berry for taking time. Teo, sit with me at the national conference on philanthropic planning and also thanks to the organizers of that conference. It was a pleasure to be a media sponsor there. Next week, tapping entrepreneurs for your cause with jerry stengel principle of stengel solutions were going to talk about the value that entrepreneurs khun give you and how to approach them. 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