443: Giving Tuesday 2019 Part I & Candid – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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This week: 

Giving Tuesday 2019 Part 1
It’s time to start your prep for this rapidly growing giving day, this year on December 3rd. Asha Curran, CEO of Giving Tuesday, gets you started.

Candid
GuideStar and The Foundation Center have merged to form Candid. Their respective former CEOs are with me to explain what it means for your nonprofit. They’re Jacob Harold and Brad Smith, Candid’s CEO.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, very nice to be back in the studio live after several weeks pre recorded and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of Mega Lo Kyra if you handed me the idea that you missed today’s show. E-giving. Tuesday 2019 Part one It’s time to start your prep for this rapidly growing e-giving day this year on December 3rd, Asha Curren, CEO of giving Tuesday, gets you started, and Candid Guide Star and the Foundation Center have merged to form Candid their respective former CEO’s air with me to explain what it means for your non-profit. They’re Jacob Harold and Brad Smith candids. New president on Tony’s take to summertime is planning time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and Technology enabled. 20 dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers whether cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to 444999 It’s a pleasure to welcome Asher current back to the show with a new title she is CEO of giving Tuesday the global generosity movement that we’re going to learn a lot about. She’s also chief innovation officer at the 92nd Street Y, but not for long. She’s a fellow at Stanford University’s Digital Civil Society lab. She’s at Radio Free Asha and giving Tuesday Is that giving Tuesday dot or GE? I should current Hello and welcome back, Tony. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. It’s my pleasure. Thank you. Um So tell me about your this new, exciting title that you’ve got CEO of of ah e-giving Tuesday. I didn’t know like that. Sounds to me like CEO of Of metoo are I don’t know, how does that work or CEO of Christmas? It is pretty funny. Well, so e-giving Tuesday’s the movement and on DH movements have lots and lots of leaders and all those leaders Coke create e-giving Tuesday e-giving Tuesday is also how the leadership and has a new organization. And as you know, we have seen incubated at the 92nd Street y forgiving Tuesday’s the 1st 7 and 1/2 years and so we’re going to be transitioning to become independent, which is really exciting It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference to your average e-giving tease, a participant or or a fan or super ambassador. But it makes a big difference to us because it’s really interesting. Actually, they consider that for everything giving Tuesday has has done and for how much it’s grown in the past eight years. E-giving Tuesday has never actually had a single full time employees, myself included, and that just became an unsustainable situation. So the 90 Seconds she wide Belfer center, which I direct the full time leadership and giving Tuesday, needs full time leadership. And and so I’m going to be transitioning out to work full time on giving Tuesday and really double down on arika. Wonderful, you’re our first guest on about giving Tuesday was Henry Henry. Tim’s the CEO of the many secretary. Why, after the first after the very 1st 1 Andi have sampled it from time to time after that, So So this is a paid position, all right, Where does the where does the money come to pay to pay you? Is that is that from the Why? No way. Stop, That’s that part’s not really changing. We fundrasing freezing Tuesday we had fund-raising for years has been very generously supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, so they will continue to support us and we will continue to raise additional funds as well to support all the different parts of the movement that that we want to support and cultivate, including our leadership team. Yeah, and what are the other leadership positions? I don’t I don’t think people know this And plus, it’s all brand new so but I don’t think I know that it’s not new. It’s actually it’s not brand new over there. Over the years, we have built up e-giving Tuesday team court what we call our core team because it’s really important to distinguish the are core team from the leaders that exist all over this country and all over the world who are leading like entire giving Tuesday country movement Right there. We don’t consider them part of our quarantine, but there’s certainly part of our broader community and our broader network. We all work extremely closely together, but our team of 10 is my self, A data lead. We have a strategy lead way, have a fund-raising and data support. We have a global community manager. We have a social media manager. So yes, there are definitely people that are devoting lots and lots of time, making sure that we amplify all the good work that giving Tuesday is doing all over the world. You know, sometimes we have, you know, certain strategic objective that come from us. But often what happens e-giving Tuesday is that we see something, something meaningful, something inspiring, something that we think a lot of tension organically emerging from the movement. And then we, as a team talk about how we can best support that. So there have been lots of different examples our community campaigns, for example, which are entire state or small cities or big town whatever that come together to create a e-giving Tuesday campaign that pulls together all of the different segments and sectors of that community and really reflects that communities, identity and population and a sense of civic pride so that we had no expectation that that who happened, We just had no idea when we first launched e-giving Tuesday and that first, you know, years that Henry and I were working on it. That’s not something we expected to see. It happened. And so our job as a team was to make it at six. Cecil, as we possibly could offer all of the additional support convening power, all of that to what was emerging organically. Another example is our country’s leaders. We had no idea getting Tuesday. We cross borders now, As you know, we we predicated it on Black Friday and Cyber Monday on Thanksgiving, for that matter. But I mean, that’s all pretty us focused. But almost immediately giving Tuesday started to cross Borders, and now we’ve We’ve passed 60 countries, so we spend a lot of time in this sort of Pierre learning ecosystem that those country leaders have come to comprise. Okay, I see so right, not new, but I still, I think, widely unknown. I think people think it’s all undistributed, and, um, I don’t think that’s commonly know that there’s this leadership team of 10. That’s really no, I think you’re absolutely right and partial Tony, that’s kind of fine design, like we’re not, You know, we’re not enough self promotion, you know, exactly minutes, and I think it’s really interesting. You know, a movement can be leaderless right and that there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just a different model on DH. Movement can be leader full, and we like to think of it in that way that we’re not the only leaders of the movement. But we are way are certainly hear ourselves as its backbone. Yeah, it’s all. It’s all very new power to give old Marge Teo Henry’s book and he’s been on talking about. He was on talking about it when it came out. Yeah, it’s all very new power. So are the Are the 10 people going to be full time e-giving Tuesday employees or just US CEO? No. So what? We’re going to be full time team final e-giving on Tuesday, the full time attention it really needs and hopefully, you know, fingers crossed. Many will raise enough money. Teo even hyre. Beyond that, I don’t think we need to ever become a you know, a a massive team. I don’t think we ever need hundreds of people, but I do think that as we expand to all of these different countries as we get more deeply into data work, we certainly want to be as well staffed as we possibly can be to try to achieve everything that we’ve achieved. But we’re very nontraditional when it comes to fund-raising as well, because we feel like we could do good with whatever we raised, right? So if we raise $100 will do $1000 worth of good with it. If we raise $1,000,000 etcetera Will Will will always parlay that into into exponential growth, as we have so far. All right, Well, congratulations on this new transition. Yeah, that’s happening in just a couple weeks, right? Is it July 1st? Is that one? It is, indeed. It’s happening on a lifer, so it’s really it’s really coming up, and I’m very excited about it. Awesome. Uh, we all are. All right. We gotta take our first break standby for me, Asha Pursuing two. They’ve got a podcast. Ah, and it is Go beyond. It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin, who is a friend of non-profit radio, of course, and has been a guest. Recent episodes of Go Beyond our Self Care for Leaders and for Digital Trends. For 2019 you’ll find their podcast go beyond at pursuant dot com slash resource is now. Let’s go back to giving Tuesday 2019 part one. All right, so that’s, er good news. Fabulous news. Congratulations again. So let’s, uh this is going to be the first of two times that Will, we’ll have you as, ah have the pleasure of you as a guest and now honored to have you as a full time CEO. Uhm, that’s kind of like that’s kind. Like any sample ward, our social media contributors. She started when she was marketing manager or whatever. What marketing lead for? Not for non-profit Technology Network. And then when she became CEO, she I’m glad stayed on as our social media on DH Tech contributor. So you’ll sew in your new position as a full time CEO of e-giving Tuesday. Well, we’ll look forward to having you back, and I’m glad you’re here today. So this whole announcement, Graham. I’m looking forward to you. Thank you. All right, um, so let’s get people motivated. Who have heard of giving Tuesday? Still, there’s still some reluctance, but I see I hear that waning. It’s not like in year one or two where, you know there was there. Was there a lot of naysayers that I think, at least in the press that I read. I think that’s declined. They’re still occasional, but you know, that’s fine. I mean, they’re entitled to their opinions. But for those who need some motivation for being involved with e-giving Tuesday on December 3rd of this year, what can you provide? How it’s growing, how easy it is to participate, etcetera. Oh, boy, we’re to start. You’re gonna have to shut me up, Tony. Okay, we’ll start with Okay, Let’s start with a couple of common misconceptions. Maybe works. So one thing that I hear expressed a concern is that e-giving Tuesday’s encouraging people to move money around on different days rather than being additive. Uh, we’ve done extensive data analysis on this and you know conclusively that giving Tuesday is indeed providing a net list and giving. So, you know, I think the concern that you’re simply moving the donor from December 31st to December December 3rd is pretty misplaced. I think instead, it’s best to think of giving Tuesday as as an opportunity to be more experimental as an opportunity to be more collaborative, not to use the buzzword, but as an opportunity to beam or innovative. I think that these are all muscles that be non-profit community really, really needs to flex its an opportunity to become more more digitally literate on fluent and and again, I think that that’s the muscles that the non-profit world needs. TTO play. So we see a lot of money being raised. Obviously, on the first e-giving Tuesday, we were able to count $10,000,000 being raised online, and they were able to count because, as we all know, data and the sexual notoriously poor and were able to count simply on aggregate total of the different transactional platforms to give us numbers and we add them all together. So that was 10,000,000 in 2012 and it was north of 400,000,000 this past e-giving Tuesday. And that’s that’s $400,000,000 that is made up of gifts, on average size just over $100. So we’re not talking big philanthropy here. We’re talking the grassroots e-giving. Our data also indicates, but be, uh, about 1/4 of giving Tuesday. Donors are new and about 75% are consistent, so it’s an opportunity both to rally your supporters that you have already and also to engage new ones so that sense of experimentation is often around. How could we speak to people in a new way that really gets them engaged with our cause or our issue? It means playing with a lot of traditional assumptions. And what I see a lot of is sort of operating, making decisions based on quote unquote best practices. That might have been true 10 years ago, even five years ago. That simply aren’t true now. And so I think it’s a really good opportunity. Just start from the ground floor, right? If you if you didn’t thank you. If you thought you didn’t know anything about donorsearch gauge Mint or stewardship, what would be the things that you would try? WAY have over 80% of our participating non-profits report to us that they use the day to try something new. To me, that’s a big metric of success. Even if they don’t make their goals because trying something new, that sense of experimentation bye collaboration. I mean reaching out to other organizations to look at them as mission aligned collaborators rather than competitors, as we so often do. We see a lot of that around giving Tuesday, and it really requires taking a step out of your comfort zone. But the lessons learned from things like that and the new muscles being strengthened, our things that benefit and organization all year round. Once you once you learn new lessons, you can’t unlearn them. So we don’t think of giving Tuesdays. Just how much money can you raise on this one day? But really, how can you think differently about engaging people around your mission, right? Not just around your bottom line, but really reasoned that you are the reason that you exist. The thing that you were here, the tackle okay. And the sector has been talking a lot about for years about collaboration. I I’ve heard it Mawr in grants, funding applications, clap teamwork, collaboration with other non-profits. But you’re talking about it in the digital space. So it’s it’s it’s billing over From from what I thought was the genesis of it, which was foundations wanting to Seymour collaboration. Yeah, I mean, when I when I talk about the kind of collaboration I see on giving Tuesday as far more than digitally, you know, we see groups of arts and culture organizations, groups of immigrants, rights organizations, groups, of women’s health organizations are looking out for each other to try to really Coke create not just a fundraising campaign, but really a storytelling campaign and awareness raising campaign. So it becomes less about how much can we raise versus them? Where’s our logo gonna go? How much credit are we going to get? And much more about we all exist to tackle this same mission. How creative can we get in telling a story about why this cause is so important? So I draw a real distinction between transactional collaboration, which is much more along the lines of I’ll scratch your Back, you scratch mine and transformational collaboration, which really involved taking the strength of different organizations and, frankly, different people. Right, because all of this stuff is actually driven by human thought organizations and bringing them together to create something entirely new. So I’m very in favor of that latter part of that lot of definition of collaboration, which also carries, Let’s face it, more risk right in giving up some control over exactly what you’re going to do in the first roll over some of your data, things like that on DH. I’m very much of the mind, that kind of risk tolerance, something that we that we very much wanna build If I’m in an organization and I want to raise this with my vice president or my CEO, how do I start to get buy-in? I’m going to find something that e-giving tuesday dot or gets going to help me get some organizational buy-in or get some talking points that I consulted. Thing. Raise the conversation. I think you know, doing this accessible giving Tuesday campaign. First of all, it doesn’t have to be its resource intensive. So that’s one way to get buy-in, right. Any any good leader should be encouraging their employees and not just only their senior employees, but all of their employees to really think creatively and to try new things and have some tolerance for failure. So I think trying something new on giving Tuesday can can be a pretty light lift financially, and that’s one way Teo that’s one way to sell it. Pointing to the data is another way, right? This is This is something that’s raising people a lot of money that’s forcing people to think different organizationally. That’s become so much greater than just a fund-raising Day that you know the reasons to try it are ample, and the reasons not to are few. It’s not going to do If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. We’re not about every single person participating e-giving Tuesday. But I think if you do go on giving Tuesday website way, always say there’s no such thing as stealing and giving Tuesday. There’s only joyful replication, so we way absolutely encouraged people go online. Read the hundreds of case studies that you’ll find their fund-raising case studies non sun grazing case studies, collaborative case studies, community foundation case studies and go on and on and on corporate, You know, houses of worship and find something that works for someone else and try it so it should be an opportunity to innovate. It shouldn’t be crusher to innovate, right? People should feel a sense of, ah, a sense of adventure when they embark on getting to a campaign. And I think one of the reasons that giving Tuesday is so sticky for people I mean real people, regular people, not sector people is because it has a very celebratory overtone right e-giving Tuesday is not about morning. All of the weighty issues that we all have to deal with it out, celebrated in our ability to make an impact on them. And so if you see all the photos we have the privilege of seeing from all over the world, we’ll see over and over again. Is Thies peace with pictures of people together and looking really happy? So there’s something about this sort of communal right giving as a human community that is very sticky to people. And I think that organizations do the best when they leverage that fact. Can you share a story? I know I’m putting on the spot. One of the one of the collaborative stories. Maybe it’s ah, couple of medium size non-profits. Anything come to mind that you can share so we could take this out of the abstract? Sure, although I hate to do it just there are so many. But I will take a couple of examples and before you do that, I will also say along the lines of selling it internally. Okay. Another misconception about giving Tuesday is that big organizations like multi national you know, huge budget non-profits do better than small and medium sized non-profits, and that is emphatically not the case. In fact, small and medium sized non-profits tend to do better, then huge non-profits, and I’m I’m quite sure that the reason for that is first of all, those. Those small non-profits can often tell Justus compelling a story, but also they often have the ability to be more agile. They left weighted down by bureaucracy, so they’re often idea they’re often able to just sort of put an idea out there, give it a try without having to run it through multiple layers of approval. Rating is important. That’s important for people to know. So one example that comes to mind is there’s a small community foundations in a town called Bethel, Alaska, which has, if I’m not mistaken, 12 area non-profits. Now this town is is the administrative hub for a series of native Alaskan villages that surrounded It has won four way stop, and a few years ago, on employee at that community foundation, not even the most senior employees decided to do a collaborative effort that brought together all of vessels non-profit. And so they did a volunteer campaign where people stood outside of that four way stop all day in a sub xero temperatures, and they gathered donations from passing motorists talking about their area, non-profits and all of the good they do. And then they divided that money equally between those non-profits. So that was an entirely new model and also just amazing story of leadership. That young woman is entrepreneurial and she is creative, and she was able to, you know, put this game changing idea out there. And so the fact that that could be implemented in a town like vessel and also in let’s say, the entire state of Illinois or New York or Arkansas is exactly what we had in mind when we created giving Tuesday as an idea that could really be adapted to anyone or any town or anything or any cause. One collaborative story that I really loved. Tony. There was a group of women’s health organizations in Wisconsin that had always been competing against each other for donors. Ellers we see so often that’s pretty much the default in the sector. And instead of doing that, they decided Teo again do this collaborative campaign. It was not about their their individual P and l’s. That was not about their individual brands But that was about the mission that they were trying to serve collaboratively rights and sew up. That seems so obvious, but I think often mission can become subsumed to brand. So these these organizations were all trying to help women in various ways. They got a local tavern to devote space to them tohave an awareness raising party, basically and fundraiser. And then they had that they got a ton of people came and they again distributed the funds equally. We also see models where organizations will come together, do a collaborative storytelling campaign, and then fundez goto directly to the whatever organization people want to donate too. So it doesn’t have to be that sort of equal divvying up of the pot. It doesn’t have to be anything right. It could be whatever a group of organizations decides hyre to co create together on DH more entrepreneurial better. In my opinion, this is a thank you. These this excellent storytelling in news for our listeners because they’re in small and midsize non-profits and your your larger behemoth organizations are are going to be to your point. First of all, it’s going to be difficult. And then in the end. It’s probably gonna not be so successful anyway, even if they’re even if you can overcome hurdles in willingness to collaborate. But but the small organizations, they have that agility. You’re right. They’re not so deep. And they can. They can knock on the door of another local organization or one you know, many states away, but you know, digitally, they can come together. Um, that so very good news for our listeners. Yeah, you’re exactly right. And then a big priority for us here. Tony is going to be too, too very intentionally Try to create more of those kinds of coalitions, even at a global level. Like so, even seeing organizations that are devoted to social justice of various types coming together to form interconnected network. Because we’ve seen how incredibly useful and productive and inspiring that is among the networks that have already been created with e-giving Tuesday if you can imagine an idea being born in Taiwan and then being implemented in Tanzania within the same two weeks, fan, if we created more of those kinds of network, imagine how radically change and improve the sector. How do you encourage that that international part elaborations about your first question, you know, why does e-giving. Tuesday Nida Core leadership team? I think part of what we what we exist to do is to set a culture and a set of behavioral norms and expectations within the broader giving Tuesday community on a big part of those norms and expectations are that we are as generous within as we are without. So the philanthropic community is often far less still in profit, inside itself, right inside, inside the bubble and with with each other with our what should be our colleagues. Then we are out into the world. And so our network of global leaders, for example, are connected every day, every single day of the year, not just about giving Tuesday. They consider it an obligation to share good ideas and things that have worked with the others in that community, and they find joy and reward in seeing those ideas picked up by others. So there’s no sense of I’m going to do something that works, and then I’m going to afford that ideas so that it only works for me. There’s a sense of I want to see this popping up everywhere because it’s because it’s done so well, we just have a couple minutes left. What are you alluded to? Outdated best practices. Could you, uh, identify a couple of those? Take a couple of those off that you think we’re holding on to need mistakenly. Yeah, sure. And, you know, I’m sure people will be very annoyed with me, but, uh, so one would be the conflict of donor fatigue. I think what I’ve seen, you know, from my observation and from the analysis that we’ve done of the data that we have available to us, donor-centric has become more of an excuse then a fact within the sector. Right? So you don’t see the corporate world worrying that it’s selling too hard. You don’t see the corporate thing that they’re making. They’re asking people to buy and buy again and by again, Right. But you do see that same worry in the sector that we’re over asking that people give. But then they get tired of giving quite on the contrary, our our observation and our own analysis find much more than generous. People are generous. They give over and over again. And they gave in multiple ways. And so you know when you look at giving Tuesday 2017 right? What you saw was ah, fall. That was a series of basically terrible things happening. There was a Hurricane Maria. There was Hurricane Harvey, that was, you know, any number of a natural disasters and people were giving after each one of those. And then they gave again in record amounts on giving Tuesday. So we do see some disturbing trends of e-giving going down. But we do see also these really hopeful trends of generous people giving and giving in multiple ways. The second outdated idea I think that I would raise is this idea that people give either in one way or another. So the way that that worry is currently manifesting in the sector is Oh, my gosh, people are giving so much to their neighbours kapin surgery on an individual cat with a crowd funding site that they’re not going to give anymore to non-profits. That seems to be a kind of logical reasoning, but we don’t see it and we don’t find it in our own numbers. On the contrary, what we’ve found is that he who gives the surgery are more likely to get non-profits because they are generous people and generous people give and they give in multiple ways. So I think, you know, back to your reference to new power everything has changed about the way that people engaged about the way that people communicate and about the way that people care about causes. And we need to pay such close attention to those huge ground 12 and tidal shifts so that we know what’s actually happening and react accordingly rather than do things based on the way people communicated and connected and engage her causes back in the day. All right? Or should we have to leave it there? That’s perfect. Thank you so much. Uh, so welcome. Thank you. Pleasure and perfect timing. Asha. Caryn. See, People think this all happens, but this is all planned out. This show was produced, for God’s sake Current. She’s CEO e-giving Tuesday doing that full time. Starting July 1st, you’ll find her at Radio Free Russia and you’ll find giving Tuesday and all the resources and the tool kit everything she’s talking about at e-giving tuesday dot or GE And I love seeing female CEOs. So congratulations again. And Asha, Thank you. Very much look forward to having you back in October. Thanks, Tony. And I do buy. Wonderful. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re accountants, for God’s sake. You know what they do? Do you need one? Do you need help with your 9 90? Do you need a review of your books? And maybe it’s not a full audit? Um, you know who to talk to. It’s you goto wagner cps dot com to start, and then you talk to the partner. You eat each tomb who’s been a guest of times two or three on DH. He will tell you honestly whether brechner is appropriate for what your accounting needs are. So it started at Wagner cpas dot com. Now time for Tony’s take to summertime is planned. Giving planning time. I think this is an ideal time to give thought to either moving your game up in plan giving or um, for lots of small and midsize shops. It might be starting your plans giving program, which I’m always evangelizing and advocating for summertime is good time for planning. You can get your CEO tto take your proposal on the beach with her or read it on the plane. It’s a little slower time. I mean, it’s not dead. That was, I think that’s sort of outdated, you know, summertime dead time, but you have a little slower time. You can give thought to what you want to do, what you want to pitch to get your plan giving program started. And, of course, I advocate always starting with simple charitable bequests. The marketing and promotion of GIF ts by will so use summer time so you can rule out in the fall. Or maybe it’s a January rollout. But use this time to, ah, to advantage for planned e-giving planning and is more about that in my video, which is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony’s Take you. Now let’s talk about Candid Sam. We have a guest. They are Jacob Harold. He’s executive vice president of Candid, the Data Platform for Civil society. He was president and CEO of guide Star. Jacob has worked at the Hewlett Foundation, the Bridge Span Group, the Packard Foundation, Rainforest Action Network and Greenpeace Yusa. He’s at Jacob. See, Harold, I hope we find out with C. C. Is for and candid is that candid dot or GE and www dot candid dot or GE and also a way of Brad Smith. He’s the president of Candid. He was president of the Foundation Center. He’s been at the Oak Foundation in Geneva and the Ford Foundation. He’s on the board of the Tinker Foundation and the advisory board of the United Nations Trust Fund for Human Security. Gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Welcome back to both of you. Got to be here. Yeah. Great feedback. Thank you. Thank you. Brad. Uh, Harold Jay Jacobs. I’m sorry, Jacob. What’s the What’s the C for in your middle name? What’s your middle name? The C is for Christopher, my eldest uncle. Okay, Jacob. Christopher. Harold. But he’s just at Jacob. See Harold. Ah. All right. Um, I feel like we should start with Brad, the president of Candid. This all this all emerged in February of this year. Uh, what’s going on? A candid bread. Well, first of all, yes, it emerged as a 1st February 1st, but it’s been a decade in the making. The original conversations about this actually started in shortly after the recession in two thousand 9 2000 Can, uh, we started a series of deliberate conversations between the CEOs of both organizations at that time was Bob latto Huff from Guide Star, and we began to see a week collaborate together, commissioned a study into 2012 in-kind consultants to make the case for to bring the two organizations together at that time. The advice. That’s not so fast, but here’s what you can do to collaborate. We did that. We learned a lot about each other, establish a lot of trust among our teams and brought back to consultants in 2017 to take another look. This time they said, full speed ahead. Go for it. So 2018 we we barton long process involving both boards, uh, to do the pre work toe. Actually bring the two organizations together and we inked the deal on January 31st and launch Candid January February 1st on What? Why the name Candid? Yeah, that’s a lot of people ask that question. Which is good, right? I mean, that’s what the name should D’oh! Okay, we didn’t want to call the organization buy-in Foundation Center because, well, that would not be that wouldn’t that wouldn’t have been fair to guide Star That would not have been fairly crowdster. So exactly one. What the foundation center did already wasn’t really captured adequately by the name. GuideStar, in a sense, might not have been fair to foundation center, but would really drove. It wasn’t external professional branding process, that consultant. They did a survey of the staff and surveys stakeholders and the South overwhelmingly decided We need a new name going to leave the past behind and be an organization for the future. And we began to look around at all the names out there in philanthropy, and they’re all the centre for this center. For that, they’re all effective. They’re all sort of similar, and they started to throw at us one word names and the one they threw out there, which he sort of corrects our heads and candid. I was the one that ended up sticking for a lot of reasons. One, because it’s a really word that one was made in. The last words I write to it actually evokes the history of both organizations and our approach to information, which is to be candid about the real information about the sector to really show the sector as it is. So the people in the sector can can do good and make the world a good as it could be. Um, see, So Jacob what? What is the the advantage for non-profits? Our audience is small and midsize shops. How will they benefit from the new from candid? Well, you know, for the first year, you know, from the perspective of a small to midsize non-profit, not a latto current change. Both of the parent organizations programs are continuing, and we’re trying to strengthen them. But over the long term, we think that together we’re going to be able to serve the field as a hole in I’m totally new ways, and I’ll mention a couple. One is to provide a multidemensional view of the work of trying to create social good. What’s happened in the past. We’ve had these fragmented databases grant information over here, information about non-profits over their information about social indicators in 1/3 place, and we believe with databases and resource is and networks of the two parent organizations, GuideStar in Foundation Center. That candid can offer that full of you. Um and that’s gonna be important for small non-profits that don’t have the resource is to constantly hyre consultants to God and do a ton of research or don’t necessarily have the network’s toe have connections, too. The biggest foundations or, you know, the partners that might allow them to do more together. Um, and we also think that the set of resource is that the two organizations provided, um, can be presented in a way that’s just easier for non-profits access organized in a way that that really brings to the top. What’s most important? That’s one thing. The next thing is that by bringing the two organizations networks together, we think we can begin to weave together many of the different fragmented activities around the field. And for a small to medium sized non-profit, the most concrete example is filling out a proposal for foundation funding. But right now, if you were applying to 10 foundations, you’re probably filling out 10 proposals that are all different from each other but are actually asking a lot of the same questions on. And there’s a ton of waste in that process. And not only is their waist i’ma non-profit side, it makes it harder for foundation’s tto. Learn and compare with their peers. And when you look at the networks that Guide Star brings with some of the major technology platforms Google, Facebook, Amazon or major national donor advised funds. Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab. And then you look at the network that foundation center has with local partners all around the country and indeed, all around the world, hundreds of them where their actual training’s actual relationships. You have a combination of bricks and clicks of a cyber network and human network that we think it’s really powerful. And so we believe that together we’re going to be positioned to begin to establish some common systems of how information flows around the social sector, not making judgments about one organization versus another, but just creating some efficiency in how people learn and how they share their story as an organization. Will we be seeing new new new tools and databases and similar to the Teo well, the foundation directory or the 9 90 offerings that Guide Star has? Will What what’s What’s plan? So right now we’re going through a process of trying to really understand each other’s tools in a much deeper way. Um, we certainly both parent organizations knew the other organizations core tools. We didn’t know him from the inside. So we’re going through that process right now. All of that functionality needs to continue because the ability to find a foundation or I learned about a non-profits programmatic objectives is going to continue R sort of medium term opportunities begin to weave them together so that we can, in one interface, begin to see how these different types of information interact. Um, there are some brand new products that we’re looking at. I’ll give one example is give lists, which are lists of non-profits recommended by experts or that reflect the portfolio of giving of a given foundation. There a number of other ways to generate them. Um, and that’s a tool that we’re that we’re working on right now. But the truth is, right then we have a lot of separate tools. What’s most important is to create a user experience that’s easy for people, and that helps them do their jobs better. So that may mean overtime, just like in the this combination of two organizations that we built that we blend together some of those tools, but keep the core functionality just make it easier to use. Tony, I think it’s, you know, it’s important. Both organizations have you No one through the the Syrians of you, you tell them I work in foundations dunaj, murcott, GuideStar. And usually they know you were sort of one thing. Like I’d say, Oh, yeah, I get nine nineties there or, uh, foundations that are in your foundation director online. Individually, we do so much more than that. So it’s taking all that so Muchmore putting it together, focusing and making much more tighter building synergies between the existing products and services, then building some new ones on top of that. But most important is making it really easy and clear for the user howto access. Exactly what that non-profit Exactly what that foundation social entrepreneur individual donor needs to do what they want to do in the world. Yeah, Andi, I’m glad you mentioned individual donor. This is Guide Star has been a wonderful, important resource. I think 10,000,000 users last year, Jacob. So this is all coming together for individual donors, too. So it’s so it’s ah, holistic in that in that respect that it’s it’s all elements of the community as well as people who are supporting it. A cz well as institutions that are supporting it. Yeah, way talk. You know, we sort of all state non-profit sexually say philantech sector. I think we’re all struggling for exactly what you call the sector. I mean, sometimes I hear it candid. We’ve been, you know, talking about the social sector. Because in today’s world, you have non-profit. You have individual givers. You have social entrepreneurs. You have be corpse. You have corporate social mance ability. You have a mission or impact investing. You have a lot of different kinds of organizations and individuals. They’re using a lot of different mechanism to create good in the world. And that is something that we feel as a combined organization. We can capture and synthesize and put out a really powerful way. All right, we’re going to take We’re gonna take our last break standby text to give. They’re five part email. Many course dispels myths around mobile giving. Earlier, Asher was dispelling myths around fund-raising. These do not mobile. Giving these these gifts do not have to be small gift. They could be in the hundreds. They don’t need to go through the donors phone company. That’s one way of doing it, but you don’t have to do it that way. And phone companies typically put a cap on these gifts. That’s why the misconception that they have to be small double digit gifts to get the email. Many course from text to give you text. NPR November Papa Romeo to 444999 I want to do the live listener love and and there is a lot of it. We’ve just going to go down the list of alternating between abroad and domestic. Young San Young, San Korea, Korea On your haserot comes a ham Nida Live listener loved their Henderson, Nevada, Tampa, Florida New Bern, North Carolina. Special, of course. Teo New Bern. Close to where I live, Washington, DC Reid City, Michigan. San Francisco, California. Brighton, Massachusetts. And Hanoi, Vietnam. Sand Salvador, El Salvador. I think that’s new. San Salvador. Welcome. Live love to you, Palestine. We can’t see specific region. We just know there’s a listener in Palestine, New York, New York. We have multiple and Brooklyn New York. Where’s Bronx? Queens? Staten Island. They’re not checking in today. Uh, but that’s all right. We’ve got Manhattan and Brooklyn live love to each of our ah, live love goes out to each of our live listeners. And, of course, the podcast Pleasantries toe are over 13,000 listeners in small and midsize non-profits, where they’re an executive director, fundraiser boardmember consultant to non-profits. That’s sort of the declining proportion that you each bear to our audience. The pleasantries air with you. I’m glad that you’re listening on the on the time shift in the podcast when it fits into your schedule. So glad that you’re with us. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners. We have, Ah, we have but loads more time, actually. For for Candid with Jacob Christopher, Harold on Brad Smith, Bradley Case Smith Don’t be formal. Let’s see well, some of the materials from Promise that Candid will further increase transparency and collaboration. Nasha and I were just talking about collaboration around giving Tuesday. Brad, how is this? How is candid going toe foster collaboration among entities within within our community? Well, you know, if you start to think about it, the two most important things to know if you’re going to collaborate our first of all sort of the lay of the land who is doing what? Where let’s say you’re under certain charter schools, you’re interested in animal rescue. You’re sitting human rights, whatever you need to know, and for a specific geography where you wantto work, who’s already working there and where the resources are flowing. And then the second thing you want to know is, Well, what to those that are already working on this issue? Know about it. If you don’t know those two things, you’re you’re likely to put your money where you can see they’re not needed or it won’t be effective. And if you don’t really know what people have already learned, you’re basically gonna be recreating the wheel. So with the vast resource is that both organizations bring to the table of candid, we’re going to be able to actually for geography issues and causes. So you, who’s doing the work on the ground? The different flows of money that air coming metoo support that work where there’s probably more money than I should be going where there’s not enough money and when there’s no money at all, and also by by capturing the outcomes and output to these organizations through our profile program, the research and evaluations and case studies who are issue lab resource. We’re also going to be able to tell you what’s working and what’s not. So you could really hit the ground running and figure out who the best partners are for you work. You know, the lack of collaboration in our sector in our sector is what keeps it from being more than the sum of its parts of the world. Needed to be more than the sum of its parts. You can pull all this all this together breath. We can pull it together. We’re already putting together quite a bit of it, obviously. You know, for some, geography is more difficult than the other. And we have global ambitions. We already have a lot of global relationship, do a lot of global work. Obviously, no one’s ever going to be comprehensive for the entire world. We have a really good shot at being pretty close to a conference on a lot of this information in the US. Okay. Okay. Uh, and of course takes time to develop this with the expertise and the data. The data gathering are, um oh, and and I apologize. Uh, your Bradford Smith, not Bradley got that wrong for that that happens all the time, But most people just call me Brad. I know. Well, that’s what I’m doing. But you could’ve corrected me. I would have been offended. Redford Cat. Okay, um, now I see lots of offices. Um, are those the old those of the foundation Centre offices in New York? Williamsburg, Virginia, Washington, DC, San Francisco, etcetera. Those those foundation centre offices? No, they’re actually have both offices. We had overlap in way have overlap in Washington, D C. And in the Bay Area. And we’re consolidating those into single offices in both places. And the other locations are either foundation center locations or, in the case of Williamsburg, where guys start has the bulk of its tech and customer support step. Okay. Okay. Um, Jacob, I wouldn’t ask you last time you were on several years ago, it was talking about the the overhead myth letter that you and I, Ken Berger and Art Taylor had signed as a CEO’s of ah, Charity Navigator and the Better Business Bureau. Wise giving alliance. Do you feel like way overcome that now? Are we gotten past the the anxiety that was Experian that donors were experiencing about overhead and the overweighted focus that some donors were putting on overhead. Are we past that now? I wish I could say we were, um so I don’t think so. I do think, though, in the last few years we’ve made some real progress. At least the nature of the conversation I hear within the sector has completely transformed the assumptions that non-profit leaders are making the way that some of the data platforms talk about and share information. Even the way the journalists address these issues, I think has shifted. But I think we have a long way to go to really have that message get into the minds of donors we keep in mind just in the U. S. We’re talking about 100,000,000 people. Um and we have decades of having reinforced this this false idea that the administrative cost ratio was a proxy for the quality of Ah non-profit. So I’m hopeful, but I also recognize it’s gonna take a while and a few other things that are going to be necessary if we’re going to get to that future where donors are really paying attention to results in potential and not an inappropriate accounting ratio And the most important thing is for non-profits to proactively offer an alternative to say I don’t want to be held accountable by this accounting ratio. I want to be held accountable according to results against my mission. And I define that as X, y and Z, and I really does put the onus on non-profits to articulate whatever numbers they think makes sense for their strategy in their mission. Um, and this is something that I think that candid will be especially well positioned to facilitate. We’ve already had 71,000 non-profits achieved transparency seal on Guide Star, which is now part of the Candid Portfolio, with many, many thousands of those providing specific quantitative, programmatic metrics that we can focus on instead of looking at, um at the administrative cost ratio and then, increasingly, some of our platform partners. He’s, you know, big technology companies in Silicon Valley and elsewhere are really thinking about how they might be able to help distribute that information as well. So I see a path to a future where the overhead myth is truly dead. But I think we still have a ways to go. All right, Jacob. Any any bitterness that that Brad is the CEO on your the executive vice president. Any lingering bitterness there? I mean, of course. Of course not. You know, Brad and I have known each other for a decade on, and we we have a pretty good sense of our strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, I think we both think that the two of us can each play important leads in this new organization, but that you need to have a division of labor on DSO. Brad is the chief executive. He’s leading the organization, and my primary task is to really think through the long term vision and strategy for candidate. We’re calling it candid 2030. Um, we’re really trying to think about big technology trends, big social trends and how those match up with our current capabilities, what we need to build, what we could accomplish over the next decade. So a lot of my attention is on that. But on that long term, um, and that’s really only possible, because I can count on Brad as he, you know, make sure that candid as an institution is coming together and, you know, becoming the institution. It we think it could be. All right, Brad, we still have a couple minutes left together. What else you want us to know about? Candid. That I haven’t asked you. Well, first of all, just, you know, a few things we learned from this. I mean, I think there’s a lot of interest in organizations in the nonprofit sector emerging, combining, working together. There’s a sense sometimes that there’s too much duplication. What organization doesn’t know what the other one’s doing and a lot of people are sort of seeing this is is really kind of an inspirational story because first of all, the idea came from us. I was a thunder for years. Jake, You know, I worked at a Ford Foundation Jacob murcott Hewlett Foundation and we, we, you know, probably presided over our share of shotgun weddings right where we basically used grants to tell non-profits they needed to work together or submerged. And those seldom really are successful. I think one of the keys to success of this is inspiration really came from the two organizations. The second thing is the thinking of Jacob mentioned taking up have known each other in a lot of different roles. They could was my program officer right When I was foundation center, he came and he did his first White Glove inspection tour, a cz, the program officer from the Hewlett Foundation to see if we’re worthy of continued support. Now we’re working together in this relationship, but that really establishes a foundation. The third thing is, the we learned to work together is organizations are tech. Teams are marketing our sales different kinds of teams through specific confidence building projects. Before we decided latto actually combine the two and then the last is the role of incredibly strong, dedicated board that you asked the question about you know who the CEO is. All those things were negotiated early on by the board, Um, and they had to master an enormous amount of information about the both organizations in order to go through those negotiations and did a fantastic job. So there’s a whole back story to this. What I think has a lot to learn from in terms of how these things work in the future for the sector. I like the idea that you’re you’re walking the walk in terms of merger and collaboration, Jacob, we have we have about two minutes left. Anything you know, you’d like to like to add? You sure? You know, I think it’d be good to just talk about division of Labor for the field as a whole. Um, and you know that a meeting a few days ago with a number of partner organizations, and we’re we’re talking about the need to figure out where and when do we defer to each other? Um, and that there are lots of topics where candidates Not the expert, um, say board governance of non-profits. And we want to defer to our partners at board source on that, um, we may have something Teo bring, but we we recognize that they’re playing a role, and we want to support that. And similarly, we hope that the field will look at us and say when it comes to questions of organizing data, which often can be really boring. But it turns out a really important. We hope that the field will embrace, um, things like data standards that we propose and know that if we are suggesting that these air the 10 questions we need to ask about a particular topic that we put a lot of thought into figuring that out and that we hope others will adopt that language. And the flip side of that is that that puts the onus on candid to really be accountable to the field and to really listen to the field and to ensure that the voices of those who are impacted by our decisions are heard and those voices are folded into the decisions we’re making. So we really do hope that the field will help us succeed, Um, by adopting some of the standards and tools that we’re putting forward. Um, and we also hope that the field expresses what it needs so that we can listen to make sure that we make the best choices possible. Alright, Tony, your international listeners heard there’s quite a few out there We are. We’ll have more and more information of that kind would be talking about tonight, um, from around the world, Southeast Asia, South Asia, Africa, Europe, Latin America. We have strong partnerships. We’re going to develop more, and it’s an important part of the future because, you know, this is a a increasingly globalized world we live in and are the information we provide. You have to take account of that. All right, that’s Bradford Case Smith. He’s the president of Candid. Andi with him. Jake of Christopher Harold, executive vice president of Candid. You find Jacob at Jacob. See Harold and Candid is at candid dot or GE and www dot candid dot org’s Gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Alright, pleasure. Good luck and good luck. Okay. Next week, we’re gonna have more smart tech gift guests from 19 and t. C. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuant by Wagner SEPA is guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to 444 999 Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Label, which is a line producer, shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy. And this cool music is by Scott Stein You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great oppcoll. You’re listening to the Talking alternative network. Good. You are listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs Thie Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us. Right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking altum dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. No. Yeah. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration? and your consciousness. Um, Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant. And on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Awakening humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to the Talking alternative network duitz.

351: Personalized Philanthropy – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guest this week:

Steven L. Meyers, author of the book “Personalized Philanthropy.”

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

109: Small Shop Planned Giving & Events Technology – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Claire Meyerhoff, principal of The Planned Giving Agency and creative producer of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Metoo hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent friday, september fourteenth. Oh, how i hope that you were with me last week. I’d be devastated to hear that you had missed get out and communicate positively. Sharon abbott is the author of mixing it up the entrepreneurs new testament and her strategies apply to small and mid sized non-profits as well. At the next-gen charity conference in two thousand eleven, she and i talked about networking your non-profit recruiting and hiring motivated people and positive communications. Sharon’s e sharon even read my face to tell me what kind of a communicator i am. You see what i put up with for this show face reading and secrets maria simple is the author of panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now, of course, you know she’s, our prospect research contributor. Last week, she panned for research gold in sec corporate filings this week, small shop planned e-giving claire meyerhoff is principal of the plant e-giving agency. We talk about marketing gift planning in ways that are not same old, same old for small and midsize charities. Claire turns the tables. And interviews me from last year’s national conference on philanthropic planning and events technology. Scott koegler returns to help you with event planning, use free tools to collaborate with the volunteers, employees and vendors who are putting your events together. You know, scott he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news and our technology contributor on tony’s, take two between the guests. I blogged this week about a really helpful analysis of constituent relationship management that cr m software, published by idealware that they published the analysis. I think it’s very good, and i’ll talk about it. Use hashtag non-profit radio. Join the conversation on twitter, you know we take a break right now. What you don’t know is that when we return, it’s clear, meyerhoff, small shop planned, e-giving stay with me. They didn’t think the tubing getting dink dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. E-giving cubine joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz no. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. It just occurred to me. I forgot to say i’m your aptly named host. You probably knew that right now. I have my interview with claire meyerhoff. You know, whereas the creative producer here, but she’s, also the principal of the plant e-giving agency. And we talked about small shop planned e-giving. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We’re in san antonio, texas. The conference is sponsored by the partnership for philanthropic planning. My guest now is claire meyerhoff. Claire is editorial director of the plan giving company. And she also has her own the plan e-giving agency, which she is principal of claire meyerhoff. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. And, tony, i’ve brought a very special gift for you from san antonio. It is a law badge, texas ranger. And it says, tony, it does say, tony ship a texas ranger. Tony okay, now, now you know why claire is also in her credentials. Creative director for this show. Because she brings little things like this. Now. Yesterday was her birthday. And yet today, she’s bringing me a gift that is just the kind of gal i thank you from my texas ranger badge. Howdy, partner. Put in on that. Looks great. Now everyone will know that you’re a texas ranger so you can go arrest people and put them in george in jail. That’s. True. I could use this for dragon jail. Yes. Now i just need a little set of keys. I always wanted a little set of warden skis for jargon. Jail. Okay, um, so what messages have you been hearing consistently at at the conference? Claire? Well, something i’ve been hearing at the conference is that people really want to take it up a notch. As far as their marketing. We’re hearing that aa lot of people are doing more advertising say within their organizational magazines, and they’ve been doing the same old ads forever, and so they’d like to do so something a little bit different. So that’s something i’ve been hearing, just sort of on the street just from chatting with people. Yeah. Ah. And what are they? They have any intentions or ideas about what the difference is? What everybody wants to do something different. What direction? Well, i think that they just don’t really know their plan giving people they’re not they’re not don draper, they’re not darrin stephens from the mcmann tate advertising agency, so they need a little bit of help and that’s, what i really like to do is doing ads. I just did one for north carolina state university, and when i was talking with my client about what kind of ad they wanted to dio b sanford who’s, thie associate director there, said, you know, i’ve always loved this statistic about how people spend more time planning their vacations than planning their wills. And he said, that’s a that’s, a great thing. What if we did something with that and then drove people to your website to the will planning tool that you have s o choose one thing and then geared towards that? So we came up with an added so it’s, a woman on the beach he’s, you know, in her fifties and she’s cool and she’s on the beach, and it says two hundred forty three number of hours she spent planning her vacation than its xero number of hours spent planning her estate and then the copy, something like she has everything she needs for her dream vacation, but she doesn’t have a will she’s not alone, sixty five percent of americans don’t have a will, but now’s a great time to start planning goto our website and in a little messaging kind of like and while you’re there, you know, leave us a gift, too. So it’s not about planned giving it’s not about the bequest it’s about the donor, so that really, truly is donor-centric to speak to them and an issue that they might be having in a clever way also in a clever way that gets their attention because you have to remember that in a magazine, whether it’s for your university or your favorite non-profit you’re kind of flipping through it, flipping through it, flipping through it, and something has to catch your attention, and it may not be the same old messaging about leaving, leaving a legacy that might not catch the person’s attention. All right, so let’s, use that as a segue way clarinet wants to ask me some questions, so we’re actually going to ah, we’re going to change positions and turntables. Claire is going to be behind the board, but don’t touch anything here i won’t touch is very technical, very technical. Now claire has a background in radio. She knows i’m making fun of her. She knows more about the board than i do. I really need you to switch. We’re going one of you up there, let’s, take off your headphones were gonna sweep. Ok, make a lot of noise, things switching, switching now, amit buy-in okay, bubbles well, you can adjust them. I just okay. Four minutes into the program. This is clear. And now you can see what they can see my badge. Better to come closer to my texas ranger underside. Okay, this’s clear. Meyerhoff in the special guest host here at tony martignetti non-profit radio. My guest today is tony martignetti, who is one of the greatest hyre teachers in the world of plan giving, i think because when i started in the business, i had a lot of questions, and tony was so generous with his time, i call him up and say, you know, really, what is it? A charitable remainder trust? Tell me all about that. So you were always so helpful, so i’d like to take this opportunity to thank you. You’re welcome. It’s a pleasure. Thank you. That’s like the greatest. I don’t know one of the greatest let’s not get carried away, but it’s a pleasure to help the community. And you yes, thank you. Thank you, here’s something that that i have really noticed being in plan giving. I’ve become sort of evangelical about it everywhere i go if i run into someone who’s from a non-profit i immediately asked them so. Do you have some sort of a plan giving program? Do you get requests? What do you do? And what i hear a lot of times is we’re not big enough for that. We’re not big enough for that, and i say, no, no, no it’s really easy, and i start to tell them about how they can start a basic plan e-giving program, but i can only take it so far because i just know about sort of the communication and the messaging, so if you’re a small non-profit a small organization and you want to sort of plan giving program and you do a little marketing, you put it in your newsletter and, gosh, someone actually calls you and says, yes, i have made you the beneficiary of my retirement plan, ok or something. What sort of the next step that the small non-profit has to take two actually accept these gifts. Okay, first thing is say thank you. We can never say thank you enough, but but the first, whether it’s a phone call or it comes in by reply card on ah dahna mailing that you did or whichever you want to say thank you very much talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. 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So, um, we want to make sure the donor understands that they are now going to be part of the close community of our charity, and the ideal way to do that is through a recognition society, which is just a way of another. Another way of saying thank you. So i hope that the charity would have a small and it’s a small charity. So a small recognition society that might just be eight or ten people who have remembered the charity in some way in their will or ira or other estate plan method. But we want to say thank you consistently. We don’t want to say thank you at the time we find out and we do that through our recognition society. I hate the name, legacy society, heritage circle. Oh, my god. It’s so generic. There are thousands of heritage circles. Name your society. You have free reign like you. Name it. Anything you want. Name it for, um, something that’s iconic to your organisation. It could be a person. It could be a gn animal. It could be, in some cases, maybe a bigger charity. Maybe it’s a building or i have a client. Where? It’s the bell tower society. Because people used to meet at the bell tower that’s a college campus different than the small charity, but make it unique to your organization. And this is really the great part for marketing. Because if you create the society and you name it, it gives you something to talk about your announcing it. You have this now. So let’s say in the past you have received a couple of bequests and you just had them and there’s no sort of organization of it. Well, you’ve come up now with the society so let’s say it’s called the elm tree society because you have a beautiful elm tree on the front lawn of your building is the elm tree society. And in your next newsletter at your next event you can talk about that we have launched. We have created the elm tree society it’s so special it’s this it’s that it’s the other thing. If you do x y and z u will be in the elm tree society. So it gives you something to talk about and that’s, the key to marketing is that you need to have something to talk about. Just the fact that you exist isn’t enough. You need to have some news, something that’s new going on to talk about. And i love the elm tree society too, because then when you have a little recognition lunch you can have little leaves on the tree leaves on the tables. On the tree is deep rooted, deep rooted in our work and and our stories and here’s a story from the tree it’s okay, i go too far, but the the the point is you make it something iconic and, yes, it gives you something to talk about. And i love the image of a deep rooted tree, too. I just that even though it’s just and she comes up with ease off the top of her head is that remarkable stories of great. And speaking of coming up with things off off the top of your head, i was visiting a friend of mine for her fiftieth birthday in massachusetts in this in february, and her husband is a financial planner and he is also the treasurer for his church, and then he goes, oh, you workin plan giving? We need to do that at my church. We don’t have anything he says. These people are dying and we’re not getting anything. And i said, well, are you asking for them? Are you are you marketing the plan gifts? And he says, no, we’re not doing anything to sit down. So within about fifteen minutes we laid it all out. We started with the society we named the society after a tree that’s on the on the really old tree on the front lawn in the church. So we named it after the tree, and then i said, well, now, now you have to come up with, like, a way to talk about it. So do you have any recently realized plan gifts? And he said, yes, we have got some money last year and we used it. The intent was they wanted to upgrade all the handicapped accessible stuff in the church. So that’s claim i said, do you have a church member who is benefitting from that and says, yes, there’s this woman and she wasn’t coming to church for a long time because it was hard for her toe access the church that’s fantastic. So i said, do you think she’d be game? And he said, yes, i said, okay, you get her, you get a photo of her act using this handicap access, you get a great quote from her talking about how wonderful it is now that she can go back to church. You put this in your newsletter and you talk about the fact that this all happened because of a bequest, and that gives you the opportunity to talk about bequests and you’re new society also, the added bonus. Now you have a way to talk about bequests with the woman who has been benefitting from the situation because you have asked her to take her photograph. So now she’s, a new french, is kind of in on it and that’s the key thing is to kind of get people in on it so you can make a plan giving program at a kitchen counter on a sunday morning over a bagel and coffee. Yes, small non-profits should not be discouraged at all thinking that they that they can’t do it. It’s just a matter of having simple conversations like you’re describing or putting something simple in your newsletter and you start with the simplest of gifts that one the ones you and i are talking about the bequest maybe go to the ira if that continues after this year. But charitable bequests just a gift in your will alongside the children and grandchildren and your spouse there’s a gift for us. It does not to be a large gift that’s just that’s the easy way to start a plan giving program and by the way, your story i don’t even i don’t know any of the players, and it still makes my eyes water a little bit because it’s such a touching story it’s so poignant. Those are the kinds of tender things that we want to be able to share with others to encourage them to do the same. Well, it’s, because we it’s kind of like we know the secret this secret way to raise money for your organization that’s so easy and a lot of people don’t know it. So at the church, they don’t they know about if they know about the quest, but they don’t know that. It’s something that they can go out and ask for, they think it’s something that just has to fall in their lap. So that’s what’s so important about talking about it and talking about it in a way that features the benefits of the plan gift and why it’s good now rather than why it’s good later, and i think that that too many people in the plan giving industry talked too much about this idea of a legacy that people are sitting around thinking about leaving a legacy and how important a legacy is. I don’t think people really wake up in the morning and think about leaving a legacy. I think that when i talk to people that have done plan gifts, they’re doing it for the here and now they’re going, you know what? This is something i can do. It makes me feel good, it’s good right now, i know i’m helping, i know i’m doing a good thing, and i’ve never heard a donor ever really say it’s because i want to leave a legacy, you know? No, i don’t you’re right, i don’t hear that that often, i think people who will get to that age, you know, are thinking about what they’re going to leave behind, but i think it’s when it when they’re thinking about that it’s not so much for about charity, it’s more about we’re going to leave behind for my family that in terms of the legacy, i think that’s more family oriented, but you’re right, a lot of fundraisers, air thinking about our marketing leave your legacy, and i don’t think people think in that respect for charity, for charitable purposes no, no, they’re doing it because they want to do something they want to do something smart and savvy and cool right now, so if if you are ah let’s, just say i’m a loyal donorsearch to a animal shelter in my town and i’ve been giving to them for fifteen years, and i’m having a conversation with someone on the staff and they say, you know, we now have this society where it’s wait are accepting plant gifts and it’s this and that and here’s, some of the things other people have done and it’s going to be great because we’ll be able to do so much and this per yes and focusing i’m sorry, but focusing on what the gift does, what the outcome, what the impact is how, how this is helping. Is it saving a life? Is it rescuing on animal is what’s the what’s the outcome that the gift creates? Not so much the focus which i see too often is this was a charitable lead unit trust which had a provisioned for generous state tax implications. And you know it’s, not about the taxes. You do it about the do it about the the great story that this that this gift creates because it has saved a life educated a child rescued ah rescued an animal given shelter to someone who was, who was abused, what’s what’s the gift doing and also, i think. And the other part, the donor part of is what can i do? And it’s an easy way to be a quote philanthropist like you think only rich people can make significant gifts and do something really sincere. But you khun do that too. And when i’ve talked to some people about it, i said, look, you know, you’ve been you give one hundred dollars a year to this organization, but if you made this organization half the beneficiary of that ira that you have sitting around that has twenty thousand dollars in it and let’s say something happened to you tomorrow, your organization would get ten grand that’s a lot of money, they could do a lot with that. Ten grand of people call, really? I didn’t know that, and i think when people realize that they can be a philanthropist, that they could be someone to make a significant impact. That kind of floats there boat it’s definitely and it’s definitely not just for high net worth people with big assets. It’s ah it’s an ideal way of giving for very people of very modest means, but your example, ten thousand dollars, five thousand dollars almost anybody could leave five thousand dollars in their state in some method, whether it’s, ira or by will it’s a it’s just outstanding for people of very modest means to do big things and be philanthropists and people also want to be savvy. They want to know that their money is is being maximized so let’s just say they they have some life insurance they’ve had around for a long time, and now they’re divorced from that spouse that they bought the life insurance for their children are grown. Their son is a doctor. Their daughter is a lawyer and they don’t need this life insurance policy anymore. What’s, anybody going to do with this five hundred thousand dollars on this guy’s life and he’s he’s, sixty five years old. So here’s this life insurance policy, he could give that two his charity? Yes, that or yes, he can actually transfer the ownership or just make them a beneficiary of it. Yeah. Ah. In plan giving me talk about the what you’re describing, the excess policy, like somebody may have taken out a policy to help children in case they had untimely death. Or to make sure the mortgage got paid or the you know, college educations got paid for if they had an untimely death. Now those things are all done. The mortgage is paid or substantially paid. Kids are educated. There is this policy like you describe that we took out first purpose. And now that purpose is fulfilled. Um, that is a great gift. A zay said could just be a beneficiary. Just just named the charity. All they need is your your name and your tax id number and you can put that in like a a two cent in sidebar on a newsletter include us in your own life insurance policy, here’s our tax id and legal name and that’s all they need. And if you want to write a little bit more, you could talk about sort of the scenarios of it. So because people want to do the right thing with this assets. So let me ask you if you had a life insurance policy and let’s say it’s it’s it’s paid up and it’s it’s five hundred thousand dollars. What else could you if you didn’t give it to charity? What could you do with it right now? Could you? You could cash it in, but then what would you pay tax on it? Or you could cash it in? I don’t know that you pay tax. No, i don’t think you pay income tax on it. If you if you surrender it now for its cash surrender value that’s an option, you could just keep it in name some other family member of beneficiary of the death benefit there’s, not there’s. Not really great options, esso. I think charity is. Should at least be a part of it. You know, you can you can still do eighty percent for family and twenty percent for charity. And that doesn’t have to be one charity could be for charities and each get five percent of that that remaining twenty. So you know that ah, and that’s the way to of overcoming the objection you might hear. Fund-raising right here, i’d like to help you, but i have other charities i want to help also, but one life insurance policy can help multiple charity’s one will khun do that if we’re talking about something bigger, like charitable trust, you know, those couldn’t help multiple charities, but keeping it simple. Will ira life insurance? Any of those three can help multiple charities. Just make sure that at the end, when you add it all up, the percentage is equal one hundred, and it might just be five percent for charity or ten. And in the rest for family. Always to be thinking, you know, when you hear oh, i’d like to help you. But there are others too. These airways that a person can help. Lots of charities now being the ah the ah! This not exactly host right now, but i’d recognize we have to wrap up like in thirty seconds or so if this is going to fit in the show like around nineteen between nineteen, nineteen, half in twenty minutes so you just took ten seconds of it, so let’s, just wrap it up here i’m clear meyerhoff with tony martignetti and we are the co host today for this very moment moment of non-profit radio tony martignetti non-profit radio, where you will find a fabulous solutions for your small non-profit big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. This is texas ranger tony thanking clare, thank you very much for the for the switch on dh sharing some time with me and ah ah, as always for being creative director, creative producer of twenty martignetti non-profit radio and you’re listening to our coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio, texas. The conference, of course, hosted by the partnership on philanthropic planning that’s my interview with claire meyerhoff, very grateful to her for that right now we take a break and when we return it’s tony’s take two and then scott koegler is with us for events, technology stay here. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order, or h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? 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And what i love about this is that all the systems that they review cost four thousand dollars or less in the first year. So i just think it’s a really valuable resource. And i wanted to point out to you and you’ll find the link to that analysis on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two for friday, september fourteenth, the thirty ninth show of the year. Scott koegler is with me now. We’re talking about event technology. Scott, how are you? I’m doing great. Tony, how are you? I’m very well, thanks for joining me today way all know? Scott he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it n p tech news. Dot com event technology. I’m not sure people think of using technology, tio support their events and some people are already doing it. But what what’s out there, that’s that’s helpful? Well, you know, there there’s a bunch of stuff. Probably the basic is, uh, facebook, you know, just setting up your your event as it has kind of something that you show on facebook and you can invite people there, but there are some very specific applications typically their cloud based, you know, they you don’t install them that’s early on your computer, you access them just like you would facebook and, uh, on then you set up your events there, you can invite people to it. You can sell tickets to it. You could track show photographs. You can all kinds of, uh, you know, just anything you’d like to do to promote and track your that. Okay. And so i assume this includes registration and ticketing things like that. Exactly. Exactly. Everything you typically do, kind of at the site. In fact, there are some applications. Portions of applications that the actual walk around during the that and can record interviews, take pictures, things like that. So it becomes full sweets of applications that you use free calls now? Yeah. Good night. Over. Right? And then even even follow-up, i presume, right? Some some will help you with follow-up notice messages. Well, certainly. Of course, the whole purpose of events usually is fund-raising or preliminary to fund-raising. And so you certainly want to know who came what they did. If you have some ability to record something about them in bio or maybe the kind of interests that they have, you want to be able to follow up with. So some of these things air are connected to social media systems or email kind of systems. So you may be able to send out updates in both of those ways. Or maybe all of them. Okay, while we’re teasing a little bit now, what’s, uh, let’s, get into some of these. What do you have first? Well, there were a couple and you mentioned one. That right? Which is a really, really popular with very powerful. Okay, yeah, i just you know, i only know it because, you know, occasionally i’ll get an event bright invitation to, like a cocktail party or networking or some like that. But it’s it’s more robust than that. Uh, it’s it’s. Very powerful. It allows you to set up your events. It has, as you mentioned just a minute ago. Ticketing function so you can actually sell your tickets through it right online if you if you want to have tickets. And now, if you have an event that is based on donations and we want to accept proof pre accept donations prior to the event that you could do that as well, okay? And this is what i’m sorry, but this is a free one. It is free. Yeah. Ok, go ahead. Please continue. I think that they i’m not sure, but i think that they actually take a piece of your tickets. That’s where they get some revenue. Okay, if you’re selling tickets, okay. Okay. On dh that’s ah, eventbrite is b r i t e dot com eventbrite dot com. Okay, anything more you want to tell us about event, right? Um, you know, it connects up with with a couple of social media sites. Certainly. You can connecting through facebook in those kind of things, and another one you mentioned also hub spot, which really isn’t kind of social media, it’s more of a kind of a management, you know who said what about what? So it’s, kind of after the fact for social media on that actually does cost money so that’s one that right probably want to get into later on hub spot is really marketing ah, marketing sweet, and it just has a an event bright module, they’re you know, they’re connected to event, right? That’s it hub spot dot com is one. What else? What else is in your current article on this? Well, yeah, there’s a couple of interesting ones. One is, of course, a jew. And i’m sure that many of the listeners know that sage as a non-profit management just, uh, kind of an all around piece of application that allows you to keep track of your daughters, your prospects, your events and pretty much accounting and anything else. So they have a module also that helps to manage events and, you know, it’s. Tough to say this, but pretty much all these do a variety of the same kinds of functions, so when you think about managing the that, you know, they’re all going to take registrations, they’re all gonna allow people that teo to register, get a map to where your that is make comments, those kind of things, of course, sages is an application, cos so they’re going to charge for for their application. I i don’t know exactly what their charges are, but they know they’re going to be they’re gonna charge. Okay, interesting, you’re the article on this that you have it and p tech news dot com mentions a small organization that’s just think they’re thirty to twenty, twenty and thirty year olds, and they’re talking about just fifteen people coming to their average event. But then you also mentioned an organization that runs a much bigger events, right? Right? The jazz foundation and neo-sage so, you know, if you have, the resource is and you have the clientele, the constituents that are doing kind of significant funding for you, it’s certainly pays teo be able to get into one of the more more robust and something that actually integrates in with your they’re counting on the other functions, such as sage. Okay, okay. There’s there’s, another one to please. But i will mention here and, um, that is an impact. A m p a c i know it’s an acronym. Hang on one second way. Could make some of your god. I will jam, jam, pack and association management now, i don’t know. I was thinking american pacific, maybe for for pacific island there’s or something, but whatever it is and and packed negotiation management, uh, package back. Oh, is it a m p a k or a m p f c c dot com. Okay, so we have just about two minutes before before i break. Tell us about impact. Okay. It’s. Similar in some ways, neo-sage and that it’s pretty much an all around kind of a system to manage your organization. But this comes in module so he can actually start relatively small, although still relatively small, is going to run about nine hundred dollars a month. So you are going to be fairly well bust, kind of an organization to use this. Okay, but it does have, as i said, different modules that you can piece together, and one of those is any that management system and those plug in to its accounting functions plugs into profiling systems for your donors, and also connects into, uh, social media. So i think the lesson here is that if you could get away with something like event, right, which was really, really great job. But it doesn’t particularly integrate with financial management rights of the size that you have a new immigrated financial management system than something like an impact. Or sage is really going to do a great job point, because it keeps everything in one place. Okay, we’re going to take a break. And when we when we return, we’ll see what else scott has for us. And also, just talk about some of the the simple, er management tools like, like google docks and drop box for your events. So stay with me and scotty. Told you. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop, second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it, aspire, athletic, insulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Scott and i are talking about events technology. Scott there’s, another group that i wanted to just mention is meetup dot com depending on what type of event you’re planning, meet up could be helpful. Meetup it’s great it’s not particularly non-profit oriented, right? Although there, you know, there are plenty organizations in there that they’re kind of loosely organized and that’s kind of what it’s for is if you haven’t interest like i imagine their side, it belongs to a wine meet up uh, and there it’s anybody conjoined? Of course, you have some control over who you allowed to join, but it’s it’s typically location based. So look for people in the area with the same kind of interest they sign up and then you are you create what’s aptly called a meet up, which is, you know, a place in a time, okay? And you can add details to it has specifically invite people and you can track it to the comments on it. So it’s, very nice. I don’t know they’re actually his, eh? Ah financial component to it that allows you to collect these if you have a particular like if you’re going to a restaurant or something like that? The marriage make a reservation. You can make reservations. If you also want to collect fees. You khun sell a ticket or not? Sure. What’s called problem with something like a ticket. All right. Yeah. That’s a great one of this horrific. And now we know that you’re in teena file. I am. I am. What is your what’s? Your favorite wine? Do you have? It is possible to say you have a favorite, you know that there are also different. I had one this weekend that was particularly good. And it’s called vincent. Now you’d think that would be van gogh. But it’s actually not expensive motorcycle. Is this is this motor oil? Or is this wine we’re talking about is much better than the movie by a guy named mark ryan. Mark ryan winery and it’s called the vincent. Is it a red or white or blush it the red? Ok, sabelo okay. All right. Yeah. So it’s uh, particularly right, we might. We might have this into our conversations from month to month. I’m a i’m a drop a surprise question on you about wine or something. Ok, well, not that i know what i’m talking about? Me so it’s. Not like a test. You could say anything. I would. I am not a someone, marie, but i do enjoy, you know, kind of sitting next to them and say, all right, let’s, talk about dropbox because dropbox, simple file sharing this could be really helpful for events. People in different offices, or even maybe people working from home or even in the same office. File sharing. Sure, sure, absolutely. Drop box. I just give a brief about what that is essential. You install little application on your computer and you drag files into it, just as you would drag files into your own filing system on your computer and the system automatically copies that file up to a cloud based repository. And then you can invite people to share the file of files that you placed there. It’s especially good for large sounds like photographs and things like that, but it works just fine for documents and the other kind of things. But having said that, uh, there, too, to systems that have, uh i’ve been around for a while, but there recently kind of made a play against drop oxide. Is google google doc’s? Sure, which is probably even better suited for for meetings and events because you can also put your calendar up there and i’m sure the calendar you can share documents, spread, shoots those kind of things, and then when somebody opens those documents on their own computer, they actually used the google docks formatting functions, right? So the differences and i just wanna point out the differences and drop box you’re using standard file formats like dot doc and dot excel for excel spreadsheets and etcetera. You using whatever you’re accustomed to, but in google using their their document a system, right? And the advantage with google is that, you know, i may not have word french someone computer, right? So what do i do when i get the file? You know, struggling so with google docks, you know, you can you can upload, uh, i’ll say power point, i’ll go there google’s presentation files, right? And then you could actually view them in the google presenter. So, you know, it’s kind of a a full system where dropbox is really great at sharing any kind of file that you want to, but you may not. Be ableto use it once you download that file, and with google, you can import files that you’ve already created. I didn’t, i didn’t. I didn’t mean to lead people to think that you have to start fresh with their with their blank spreadsheet or something you can import, and it will convert it into therefore into the google format. Sure, and you have the option of either converting, and we’re not converting it, so you could e yeah, you could take a powerpoint files just up with powerpoint files, and it stays a power point, okay, i realise it or converted, so, you know, get some options there, and then you’ll find that it’s a docks docs dot google dot com, but you have to have google account to use these, don’t you? I don’t know if you have to have a google account to use to be a recipient, right to share have somebody invite you to share, right? I share documents with people that i didn’t know whether or not they have a right to be the creator of a document. You certainly have an account, right? And to invite other people, okay, we have just two. Minutes left. You said there’s. Another one. That’s making a play. Uh, yeah. Area the old player microsoft recently put up outwork dot com, which you’re familiar with. Outlook. The application outlook dot com is the online version of outlook that runs on your desktop. So there’s a whole bunch of things about that. We might talk about that next time. Because that’s kind of interesting it’s it’s, i’m gonna say it’s loosely based on hotmail but it’s much more like what you experience on your desktop. This also includes a file stating and file sharing as part of that whole suite. So, look, look for microsoft there. They may not have been, you know, major name, a new application development, but they seem to be coming strong. Okay, interesting. And outlook dot com is cloud based, right? It is crowd based, just like dropbox and google. Okay, yeah, why don’t we? Why don’t we a plan that for the next month? All right, that sounds good. What do you want to talk about there? Okay. And overviewing outlook. Dot com. Okay. Anything you want to leave us with around event technology in last minute? Uh, you know, the biggest thing is, you know, planning the event and use one of these applications to organize it because it’s one thing to just say they were gonna have a party, it’s something else to say it’s going to be here and we want you because of your special skills and tony, you’re assigned to bring wine. Ok, alright. My favorite wine is called is, uh, is a vineyard named list cerini okay, it’s been around for a long, long time. Very well known. Little little tart, slightly target, but it has subtle notes. All right, scott can go. Thank you very much. Thanks, tony. Take always a pleasure. Thank you. Next week? I don’t know, because i’m recording today’s show three weeks in advance, so but you know, it’ll be a good show. You know that that’s, why that’s, why you’re with us every week. You can keep this conversation going on linkedin. Post your follow-up questions, including wine for scott if you have them and the guests will answer in the linked in group i host a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy it’s called fund-raising fundamentals, and it is a ten minute monthly podcast devoted to fund-raising it’s on itunes. You also find it on the chronicle of philanthropy website. If you like this show, i hope you will check out fund-raising fundamentals continuing to wish you good luck the way performers do around the world more often than break a leg upper singers around the world. So this is an international one today use toi toi toi toward off a spell or a hex. And this imitates the spitting sound sound of spinning on somebody like last week’s three three remember from norway but the norwegians only spitting twice there. Very clean people. Look, look at them. They look clean, they look wholesome. Their country is spotless because they’re only spitting twice but are everywhere else. We’re spinning three times on dh. It used to be said that saliva actually had demon banishing powers so internationally on, especially for opera singers internationally spinning three times over somebody’s head or shoulder is a gesture toward off evil spirits. But spitting on them is assault in probably under most criminal codes, so don’t hit them. And as you’re doing this, i wish you toy toy toy for the week. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Hard to believe we have one. But janice meyer. Janice taylor is helping me with all these international greetings from performance artists. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. You should be here next friday. Went to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hyre hyre. I think that’s a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get me anything. Nothing. Cubine hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Told you.

085: Planned Gift Prospects By Phone, Tanya Says Farewell to PPP & Kony Complexities – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Mindy Aleman, executive director of the Center for Gift and Estate Planning at Kent State University

Tanya Howe Johnson, president and CEO of the Partnership for Philanthropic Planning

Gene Takagi & Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Metoo hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio march thirty, two thousand twelve big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host i sincerely hope you’re with me. Last week, it would hurt me deeply if you had missed to twitter chat hosts on twitter talk we had pamela grow of small non-profit chat and brendan kinney of fundchat both on twitter tell us how these one hundred forty character conversations i can help you non-profit and build your professional network and push it. Maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder, explained how push technology much of it free khun support your fund-raising this week planned gift prospects by phone. Mindy allen of kent state university takes the role of professor to teach you how to identify planned e-giving prospects from your phone based fund-raising very unusual, but she’s been doing it for years with great success and that’s pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning this year, tanya says farewell to p p pee that’s tanya how johnson she sat with me at that same conference last year, the partnership for philanthropic planning conference to say goodbye to that. Organization that she has lead for twenty years, she retires this next month. April and finally today, cockney complexities our legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group look at legal issues around the viral kony twenty twelve video it’s gotten eighty six million views and we’re going to look at it from an angle that you have not yet seen. I hope you will stay with me right now. Oh, and i’ve forget about it. I’m all screwed up. I also have course tony’s take two this week on tony’s take to my blogged one fact about planned e-giving i’ll tell you what it is and why that fact should be reassuring to you use hashtag non-profit radio if you want to join the conversation through twitter, i’m very grateful that the show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services. Now is the time to say that we’re going to take a break, and when we return, i’ll have the pre recorded interview planned gift prospects by phone with mindy element from kent state university, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s a lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, are you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We’re on the river walk in san antonio, texas, and my guest right now is mindy element. She is executive director of the center for gift and a state planning at kent state university in kent, ohio. She is a c f ar e and an a p r i’m going to ask her what those mean very shortly. Mindy, welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Nice to be here. A pleasure to have you see fr ee i know is certified fund-raising executive. But what is the a p r after your name designation? I’m also accredited in public relations by the national public relations society. Okay, how do you feel? You used your public relations credential in your gift planning work all the time. Thanks. Oh, yeah, absolutely. How is that? Tell me you’re building a story. You’re building a case for your institution. You’re crafting the proper message. And you’re thinking about the audience and that’s all about public relations as well as planned. Nothing. All right. Excellent. Thank you. Mindy, your your topic is harnessed. Phone center. Power to increase plant. Gif ts now, i don’t think that most of our audience and the audience is small and mid sized non-profits think of their phone center as a place to prospect planned e-giving donors. So why are you recommending that? Well, tony it’s really a gold mine? Four future plan gifts and for requests that are undocumented there, unbeknownst to the organisation and for many reasons may not be known until after the donorsearch passes away. Okay, and we can uncover these gif ts through our phone work. Absolutely. Okay, most of the time and we use students in our phone center. But any well trained, personable rapport building phone center caller could do that. Okay, well, that’s kind of a mouthful now, so it sounds like, do you? Ah, you do you stay away from or recommend against? I guess the hired tell of a telephone tell us solicitors for for annual fund. I don’t recommend against it. I think it takes a little bit different training. The reason student callers or callers who are involved in the organization’s mission are very efficient and effective is because they bring a sense of doing it now to their phone conversations and particularly with universities, a student is best at developing a nice report with an alumnus who may have gotten a degree in business, and the student is majoring in business and khun se gi, do you have any advice for me? I’m having a tough time with the international business ethics class, okay, so they can develop that report that profession schnoll consultant solicitor is not going is not going to do it’s it’s a unique relationship between the student and the donor on the other end of the line that if your phone centers very successful getting gifts, it’s, because they’re developing report, that same report is very successful and into girl in terms of identifying those who might also put your institution in there will all right? And we’re going to get to those to those details. Let’s set the stage at kent state now as executive director of the center for gift in a state planning you probably don’t oversee the annual fund telemarketing function, right? You’re you’re working with another office in this, okay, you have a good working relationship, i guess. Absolutely. And this truly is a nice example of a collaborative effort. And buy-in between the plan giving area and the annual fund program, how did you discover the potential in the annual fund telemarketing work for your gift planning work? Well, we had been very successful at our annual fund. We were raising a lot of money and the annual fund was breaking all kinds of records. So we knew at the time that we had a very great program in place. During the same time, we had a screening, and the screening had uncovered about twenty seven thousand prospects who had a high proclivity for making a plan gift to our organisation. This was a screening by an outside company, one of the one of well screening cos yes, and i could mention the company if you don’t, if you like your blackbaud and they did a wonderful job for strip. And the dilemma that we found ourselves in was well, how the heck are we going to get to talk to twenty seven thousand? Likely plan giving prospects? How many people are in the center for gift in the state planning at the university? Well, there’s, only a couple of us plus our administrative support. However, we have another fifteen to twenty full time gift officers representing different constituencies. However, they are mostly major gift officers. So we had what we call in this area. Lack of legs. Okay, twenty seven thousand people. What? What did you decide to do? Well, we thought maybe we could piggyback onto the successes of our phone center who were talking to thousands of alumni every week. And maybe we could take the best of those callers, give them a specific pool comprised of the ones with the highest blackbaud ratings in the plan giving area and ask them to discuss whether the the donor ever had any intention or thought of remembering their in their alma mater in their estate plan. Your colleague who oversees the annual fund wasn’t concerned that this would buddy the message and that the annual fund solicitation might get lost in there for the annual fund income suffer well, no, because we we decided up front that this pg ask, as we called it pgs, peachy ass, actually, what? It was really mostly a plan giving conversation, segway. But that would only occur number one if they were in the plan. Good e-giving phone calling. Pool number one and number two, if the person called, had made a gift or a pledge so it didn’t interfere it all. It came afterwards, okay? And had made a gift or a pledge in that in that call. That’s? Correct. Okay. And what do you call this program, ken state? We call it, request a request. All right, but you’re not really soliciting a bequest. You’re you’re asking if there’s ah, an interest in it is that is that right? Yes. But, you know that’s where there it’ll starts and it’s a nice segue way. If somebody has been donating for years and they’re in the right demographics for plan giving it’s very natural and easy for the student caller to say, you know, mr jones, you’ve been so wonderful all these years. And i certainly appreciate your gift tonight to the school of music. Have you ever considered including us in your state plan? All right. And what was the initial response to that? How many years have you been doing this request? A bequest. This has been going on since two thousand five. So it’s in its about six and a half years, i guess. Right? I guess we’ll clearly the answer is, the initial reaction was not negative, and i guess positive. So you continued for the for several years after it’s been wonderful, tony, it really has not only have we identified hundreds of people who would consider a bequest, but we’ve also uncovered many people with with requests or other plan gives already in there a state plan and the most the fat, most fabulous part of all of this is that many of these donors we’re not on our radar screen. Well, they were in the twenty seven thousand because but they were not on your plan to give prospect radar screens that right, right? And they were yes, they they were unbeknownst to us in terms of whether they would really do something or not. So it really pushed the meter in terms of identifying really good plan giving prospects. And as we all know in the world, the plan giving many current gifts can come from plan giving donors as well. So is the language that the students are using. Is that is that what you gave us earlier? Would you consider or have you ever considered share, including okay, and and there are. Other options as well, let’s, say there was somebody that said, well, i can only make a small gift this year. Tony too. The department of physics. I wish i could do more, but i could only give you a small gift. The collar then was empowered and trained to say, well, i hear your passion in your voice. Maybe you could just put us in your will. And you would be surprised and pleased. I would think, to find out that many people said, you know what? I’m going to go ahead and do them that’s really something you’ve uncovered something really very, very interesting. Thank you. Yeah. Great. Now, your program description says that this is an award winning program requested request. What? What award or awards? Everyone. This particular program has been the recipient of four different case awards. Three golds in terms of best overall program. Best plan giving can cases the council for advancement in support of education. Yes, yes. And it also meant a lot because we we received an award for collaboration. And it truly was a nice effort between our phone center manager, the annual fund director, my my department in a range of other folks, including the major gift officers, because for many of them, they ended up receiving nice leads. If somebody was assigned and indicated they might consider putting tens in their will, then the particular advancement officer was encouraged to go to follow-up so we’ve raised millions of dollars duitz and gifts and pledges through this program over the years, clearly a collaboration between three different three different areas of fund-raising so how did you select the callers who were who would receive the enhanced training? Teo teo participate in request of a quest i depended on the phone center coordinators in the end, the managers to provide me with their very best callers, those that had a great track record in securing gifts, those that had a really passion and joy for the institution and those who were just great on the phone, particularly for older adults who may not want to talk at certain times during the day, or who have hearing issues and so on. So just in terms of the person’s volume on the phone, absolutely right, okay, volume being able to enunciate properly, our collars went through all kinds of training, including gerontology. Expert who came in and talked about issues that older adults face and things like sundown ing, which means that we wanted some of these calls to go out earlier than six p m okay, so training by jared atallah gist yes, what other training did the these specialized colors get? They had a range of basic plan giving options so that they understood the difference between a simple will bequest and let’s say of retained income gift. Okay, but nothing so technical that they were inhibited or overwhelmed or felt like they didn’t want any part of this, and they knew to be able to refer those to me and oftentimes i was there during the calling, listening in, okay? No, they’re helping out of being around that’s a part of call center training is listening surreptitiously. Yeah, um, so they were just opening the conversation. And isn’t that what we trained? A lot of major gift officers to do? I i spoke with someone earlier talking about breaking down the silos mean, so this is just an extension of what what i think is that conversation breaking down the seller’s between plan giving in major e-giving you’re just including students from the annual fund call center. The important thing about having conversations with people and getting to the core issues is being able to elicit trust for yourself from that person and whether it’s, a student caller or a major gift officer, the person on the other end of the phone could be made to feel so comfortable that they want to talk more and believe it or not, if we’re not asking for will’s, we’re not doing our job because every other charities out there doing the same, and in all these years of calling and in the thousands of people who have been called and followed up on, we have never gotten one case of somebody saying, how dare you ask me that? That is so inappropriate? And most people were thrilled to know you know what? What a great idea! I ought to include my alma mater in my will. Never not one complaint, not one complaint. Okay, well, you’ve screened the people who would be part of this, the in terms of the the prospects, and also highly trained, the caller’s it’s all done very sensitively and appropriately to the right, poole and never a single complaint. Excellent. Um, follow-up is critical to any solicitation or conversation of this type would what’s the follow-up this is really, i think, the key factor of this program you can’t do or launch some kind of program without proper follow-up because nothing is worse than a student coming back to your office ing wow, somebody just told us they’re they’re leading fifty thousand dollars in their will for us, and then we don’t call them for a year. I mean, that’s, that’s critical. So the follow-up has to be done with as much enthusiasm and passion, and what i decided to do was work with our data base folks and code these different calls. If somebody was just considering including us in their will, they were coded as a cb, considering a bequest. They got a letter from their student caller thanking them for considering and telling them it was nice to speak with them, and it was actually signed by that student. They also got a letter from me thanking them for considering and if they requested, information included information and so on. So there was there were a number of follow-up procedures and protocol that we were very, very religious on, he should say in terms of following of the the way to what the person wanted to receive all the way to giving them a call maybe six months to a year later, saying, you know, you know, mrs jones, you had one time thought about including us in your will would it be helpful to you of somebody from our office took you to coffee to discuss or would you like some more information? Okay, so that is a part of the follow-up six months or a year later. Yes. Yeah. What’s your preference for follow-up to someone who has said in one of these calls, you know, i’ve already included you in my will, which certainly has happened. Do you then request documentation or request that they fill out a simple form? Or is their word sufficient for you to include them in your recognition society? Well, after we send out the balloons and all the party favors to their house, yeah, we’ve really simplified it over the years. We do not request a copy of their documentation. However we do ask that they give us something in writing to specify their instructions, and it could be in using our simple form that we that we offer that helps them, or it could be in the form of an email or a note saying, dear can state, i’d i’d like my funds to go to the kent state university museum, for instance, so with that latto we, we include them as a member of our legacy society, and they get all kinds of acknowledgment there after it’s also the beginning of another conversation where we can say, you know, depending on how much is it comes to fruition at you could create a permanent endowment, and we can we can help you with that as well. And what what are you thinking there in terms of permanent damage? What type of gift are you tryingto encourage them to? This is simply where, if there’s sufficient funds through there, a st gift right now, endowments on the ken campus or twenty five thousand? Ok, so in other words, if they’re going to leave us at a minimum of twenty five thousand, we would like them to know that they have an opportunity to have a permanent impact at the institution with there area of interest could go. On teo in perpetuity, the program is requested. Request it’s at kent state university, and i’ve been talking to mindy ah lemon, who is the executive director of the center for gift and estate planning at the university, talking about harnessing your phone center power to increase plant gifts. Many element, thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you, tony. Been a real pleasure. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio, texas two thousand eleven. The attendant think dick tooting getting stinking thing. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. E-giving you could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Welcome back now i have my interview from that same conference last year, last october with tanya how johnson and hears that. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning, hosted by the partnership for philanthropic planning. We’re in san antonio, texas, and i’m very pleased to have with me the president and ceo of the partnership for philanthropic planning. Tanya. How johnson she’s going to be retiring in april of next year, two thousand twelve, after twenty years as president and ceo tanya welcome. Thank you. And thanks for having me, it’s. A pleasure to be here. A pleasure to be a sponsor and partner with the with the conference and with the partnership. No, this must be a pretty emotional time for you. It’s. The last conference. What would you say that of your presidency? Not certainly not of the of the organization of your presidency and chief executive officer ship. What are you feeling, it’s? A very bittersweet time. I have to admit, i’ve had twenty great years. I love this organization. I love all of the people that i’ve worked with, its bin a wonderful opportunity for me to give. Back to philanthropy and give back in some way to those people who have been important to me all my life from charitable organizations, so i’m very sad to leave. I’m excited about having one more career before i really retire, and i’m looking forward to exploring what those options are and hopefully staying in touch with everyone here. Of course, what do you have in mind for that next career? Well, what i’m telling everybody is that i’m going to write a tell all book that’ll scare them nobody’s gonna keep in touch with you then, but it’s too late. You already know it all all these years, i keep saying, i’m going to remember this, so no, actually, i haven’t made a definite decision yet. I’m exploring a number of options, okay? And leaving the window open and i hope by january i’ll have an announcement to make, okay? Okay, we’ll look forward to that, and i’m sure that will be on the website because people do want to get in touch with yes, absolutely so this is probably going to be on the partnerships website. Do you want to say a farewell something that is fitting for? Your imminent retirement well, i don’t know if i could say anything that was really fitting for my retirement, but i will be making some remarks later this afternoon here at the conference and will be video taping those, and so hopefully we’ll have a chance to get those out to members. It would be nice to be able to say a personal goodbye to everyone and and that’s, not really possible, but i hope through the magic of technology that we can do that, so i thank you for this opportunity as well. It’s been a pleasure on dh, thank you and congratulations. Thank you, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. Right now, we take a break when we return. Tony’s, take two, one fact about planned e-giving and then after that, i’ll be joined by our legal contributors, jean takagi and emily chan, with kony complexities. Stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed and the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is one fact about planned e-giving that fact is it’s a relationship business? People often get bogged down and i think even discouraged ged from starting a plan giving program because they think about technical concerns and needs for expertise, or sometimes people who already have programs get bogged down in administrative work. If you’re starting a program, you don’t need technical fancy advanced gift offerings to have a very solid and very respectable planned giving program, and that is, should be reassuring too small and midsize charities it’s just not necessary. You start with requests, which is a gift in someone’s will those air very simple for you to promote and for your prospects to understand, and you don’t need to go any further in a lot of cases. That’s, a very respectable program for small and midsize shop, just marketing and promoting charitable bequests and on my block this week in that post called one fact about planned e-giving there are links on how to get started because i did a series of articles for guide star they’re links to those articles explaining how you start a program just around charitable bequests. So the one fact about planned giving is that it’s a relationship business you don’t need fancy technical administrative stuff and it’s easy to get started just with requests, that is all at tony martignetti dot com and that’s tony’s take two for friday, march thirtieth, the thirteenth show of two thousand twelve now i have with me jean takagi and emily chan are you guys out there? Way are hi tony money. Hello, how are you joining me from san francisco and the non-profit and exempt organizations law group is jean takagi he’s, the principal of neo, and he edits the popular blogger at non-profit law block dot com on twitter he is at gi tak g ta ke emily chan is an attorney at the non-profit exempt organizations law group and principal contributor to the non-profit law blawg, and she is at emily chan on twitter. And emily chan just recently wanted a big, prestigious national fancy award. Won’t you tell us? Emily thanks, honey. M it is an award from the business law section non-profit organizations committee with the american bar association for us outstanding young lawyer i’m really honored and thankful to gene for making the nomination. All right. And that’s not just a san francisco or california award right attracted the national. Alright, congratulations. Thank you, jean takagi. If you don’t win an award within the next month, next time you supposed to be on the show, you’re you’re out! I think i’m already reporting family, so all right, so but that includes bowling trophies. If you can come home and come in with a bowling trophy between now and the next show, you’re still you’ll still be on. We’re going to talk about kony complexities, let’s see jean, why don’t you remind us what the cockney video is? Because there may be people who haven’t heard of it yet although eighty six million have, we may have listeners who are not among those eighty six million what’s the what’s, this cockney video and what is invisible children kony two thousand twelve, with a short thirty minutes video created by invisible children, was released earlier this month on as you said, tony, eighty six million views on you two, not including all of the views on coney or invisible children’s own. Website and other websites that have picked up the video. So it’s, a huge movement to promote invisible children’s mission to stop ugandan warm and war criminal, uh, who’s, draconian the kony two thousand twelve. It refers to joseph kony who’s brutal guerrilla warfare tactics with the lord’s resistance army or l r a in regions of central africa, particularly northern uganda. Uh includes the strategy of kidnapping children and using them soldiers for his efforts often, uh, using them to kill their own parents. So it’s, just a really, uh, atrocious were criminal out there that invisible children has targeted the video because it was so popular has caused sort of all about what caused a lot of conversation on both sides people in favor of and opposed teo the work of invisible children. And i think a good amount of envy that that that video got so widely distributed. Gene, there are some legal issues that that you and emily see what? Why don’t you get us started with this is thought about this us charity and its international work? Sure, i think that’s a good place to start first, there is the question about whether an american charity can get involved in international programming on having activities overseas. Well, there’s nothing in federal law that would prohibit a u s organisation five, twenty three public charity from engaging in international operations. But of course the organization would have to comply with the laws of that foreign jurisdiction. And in this case, invisible children has an affiliated organization. Invisible children ngo that was formed in central africa on is kind of a partner in their programming over there. So invisible children, public charity, the us public charity engages in grantmaking to the ugandan ngo that’s related on de emily that that foreign grantmaking that’s that could be a concern. Yes, absolutely similar to the same kind of concerns that we have domestically about the use of five to one say, three assets. This concerns certainly becomes more complicated and maybe more severe when we’re talking about money going abroad. Um and so the level of control and oversight on the due diligence that an organization is doing to make sure that money is used properly, something that any organization with foreign grantmaking should be aware of and take care of, okay, and and what are those? What are? The concerns i mean, what are the tests that we’re looking at for whether the grantmaking is is appropriate abroad? Well, they’re quite a handful of tests, so to start on a basic level, any of the five o one c three rules still applied to foreign operations, so concerns about inappropriate benefit to insiders to private individuals for being used for purposes outside of the exempt purpose of the organization, which again must still be consistent with our domestic five twenty three regulations, but also so so so so the so the irs is arm extends beyond just us borders. If you’re a u s five twenty three, your international work is governed by the same constraints as you’re us grantmaking yeah, parts of it work, and i will have, you know, two bodies essentially or more than it may be reporting to you because it is a us non-profit so it does have to comply with u s laws but speaks touch now, it’s getting involved in a foreign country now, you also have to look at the foreign country and figure out what rules would apply as well. So another concern with this grantmaking assad for individual teo donate teo a public charity while that money can be used abroad, it cannot be earmarked to go abroad. I can’t not be earmarked to go to a specific individual, and this is consistent with the same kind of rules you see domestically were again, it can’t be earmarked. Go to specific individuals to get that charitable deduction on. And it goes back to that level of control and discretion that domestic non-profit should have to make sure that it’s actually using the money and further and it’s exempt purposes, and following through with that money to make sure that it’s being used properly by the recipients do we know how much money, um, invisible children was devoting. Teo er non us grantmaking. Yeah, i believe gene has the statistic on hand. Sure. It’s it’s about two point three million dollars in their two thousand ten form nine. Ninety that was reported going towards there. Foreign ngo. Okay, i wanted teo just sort of ad tio empoli comments about not earmarking donations to foreign individuals, but that would also include foreign ngos. If you as a donor, earmark your donation to us charity and say it must go to a specific foreign ngo you will not get a deductible contribution, and the charity will not really be operating consistent with it. Uh, legal requirements toe exercise oversight over that if they’re just merely acting as a conduit. So those things for donors and cherries to be careful of. So in other words, gene, invisible children can’t say up front that it’s going to make grants to i don’t know, you know, some you ugandan grassroots organization, they can’t do that. They say that the donations that they receive are specifically going there. They say that one of the recipients is that ngo okay, okay, um was there i’m sorry i interrupted you. Was there another point you wanted to make about this international grantmaking sure, i just wanted to make sure that everyone was aware that they’re anti terrorism laws that also may apply on us what policy? So you’ve got to be careful of making sure that you’re not acting against us public policy in your porn grantmaking okay, now, that’s just in the grantmaking so that wouldn’t apply to the video that they had done, right, that it wouldn’t matter whether that position against joseph kony was against us policy, right? It actually could matter-ness just okay. All right, how’s that well, if you’re using a charitable funds for which organ donors got deductions for and for which you are not paying taxes can’t use those funds to promote, for example, racial discrimination because that’s against us public policy and that’s true, whether you do it domestically or abroad. Ok. All right, so so, eh? So if the u s had a policy of supporting joseph kony just hypothetically, then they then then invisible children would have trouble with the video that they just produced. Is that right? If they used if they use charitable funds for it that’s that’s, right. Okay. Okay. Just a hypothetical. I don’t know. It’s a law school, hypothetical man, i know you guys were rolling your eyes in san francisco, but i’m amusing myself. So actually something else. Do i wantedto arika with grantmaking that gene and i were discussing recently about the relationship that’s happening here with invisible children of domestic non-profit and grantmaking teo ngo. So, emily, you and jean sit around the office and talk about these things. Do let’s expect that’s? Incredible that’s. I love that. Okay. Well, i mean, that’s what that’s, what lawyers working for non-profits ought to be doing is just yeah, it’s good to hear good years, not just with me. You guys share share information offline. Outstanding. Okay? Whenever a story like this comes out, we do think there’s always lessons to be learned and takeaways, especially when it gets so much attention on. So one interesting fact that jean notice what grantmaking is to an ngo by the same name, invisible children abroad. So this is the organization that was set up essentially in another country. And we’re just thinking from the perspective of an organization that if there is let’s, say hi overlap between the individuals running the domestic non-profit and then the recipient ngo abroad, that maybe the level of discretion that you used on the due diligence on the information you put out let’s, say with your annual reports or your filings, or even on your website, you may want to pursue a higher level of that two again show that there is a step in between the two and it’s not just becoming a conduit, essentially, or collapsing into the same group of people and you discovered this we have just about a minute before break you discovered this or jean discovered it on the nine, ninety. Yeah, essentially that that’s. Right. So, on the nine, ninety, they report they’re grantmaking teo, invisible children, the ngo, but we don’t know very much about invisible children, the ngos. So wait three million went that way. How did they spend their money? And you know what type of due diligence is there that’s not really available to us or the irs, unless they decide to audit the organization. But you are saying that that invisible children has an office in uganda and not invisible children, the us public charity. They formed a ugandan ngo, central african ngo teo teo, okay, and it’s also called invisible children correct. I understand, okay, we’re gonna take a break. When we come back. We’ll keep talking about kony complexities, so stay with me in this crack legal award winning team. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Told you. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio gene. Before the break, we were talking about the international of the ugandan ngo invisible children and the us invisible children. It sounds like your advice is is just really that there has to be separation between the two, similar to a charity that is in the us and maybe its foundation fund-raising arm. Also here in the u s is there a parallel there? Well, most most charities have their fund-raising arms within the legal entity of the charity itself. There are some organizations that separate out there fund-raising units like an endowment is a separate corporation for risk management purposes and asset protection. So the separation that you’re talking about for those reasons, is similar to what a u s charity and a foreign related nto would need to do with. Well, yeah. Okay. This is this is really some crack forensic work that you guys did finding this in the nine. Ninety. Very interesting. And then, of course, nine nineties all publicly available. Right? That emily, is there another topic you want to? You want to talk about with respect? To the invisible children that we also in looking at the nine, ninety found some interesting information about the progression or, i guess, evolution of the organization’s mission. And again, this is all coming from this publicly available annual information return on, we see that this is all from guidestar, which gives you about the three most current years. In two thousand eight, we see a pretty broad description of the organization’s mission in part three of the nine, ninety, which focuses on program i’m activities, which basically says it’s media based awareness and advocacy provoc grams in the us, we see that in two thousand nine that it now becomes more specific, stating that it’s about raising awareness and education in the us about atrocities, exploitation and abuse is invisible children throughout the world here, now we see a focus on invisible children, and then in the most recent filing available from two thousand ten, we actually see it become even more specific where it says that invisible children uses film, creativity and social action toe and the use of children, soldiers and joseph tony’s rebel war and restore l r et affected communities in central africa to peace and prosperity. So again, even more focused, yeah, so what’s the impact of these changes over three years, there’s quite there could be many impact from this. The first is that one question someone would have is whether this is consistent with their governing documents, because, again, this is an information return. So even if the mission has one thing, you really have to look to your articles of incorporation and those documents to see what actually what purpose you’re supposed to be furthering. So with those documents, the articles of incorporation and the mission statement within them have to have been updated and become more specific from year to year, the way the nine, ninety reports that did they absolutely should, for a couple of reasons, one is, you know, the articles of incorporation are not really accessible to the public. I mean, you’d have to request them. You’d have to be a certain person in the organization, possibly get that information. So for one, communication with donors is very important. Um, and you’re funders into the public, and you would want that to mirror your governing documents in any kind of public information. You have another issue more. Legal issue has to do with the use of your charitable assets that you received so there’s a concept called charitable trust doctrine, which essentially says that the assets you received azzan organization are locked into the mission that you have at the time that you get those so if, for example, in two thousand eight, it has very actually no let’s focus on the two thousand ten right, the most specific two thousand ten, the most specific year, right? And then let’s say in the next year they’re going toe they’re going change it again just in their own internal understanding of how they want their mission to be on, and they’re going to focus on the new region unless they’ve amended their governing documents, even if internally they believe now they’re focusing on a new area under their state shirt will trust doctor, and they were not probably cannot use those assets that are being received. After internally, they decided to make a change to this new focus. What saying another country it’s still going to be locked into this joseph kony rubble war, right? Because because that money was raised in two thousand ten, which was their charitable purpose at that at the time it was raised, right? Interesting god. And so this is just important for organizations to know we seen this, you know, in other cases where an organization has decided internally, it evolved it’s starting to change its focus, but it hasn’t changed its governing documents. And so all the assets that’s receiving are locked into that mission that is still stated in their governing documents. So this is very important for organizations tio check their governing documents also because they’re there for a reason that really helps guide the organization. And why don’t you just remind us, emily, what are those governing documents? Articles of incorporation general will be the most important and then there’s also your by-laws which could be more specific than your articles that this all would play into germany. What your mission, wass i’m and then also just looking at your information return. So the nine, ninety things that you put on your website that can go to misrepresentation with donors on other issues like that, if it’s not consistent and people are donating under a belief of where it’s going, that is actually something that the organization can do yes. Okay. All right. This was a really interesting forensic work. Really? Are you guys going tobe log about this? Yeah, i think so. You know, i’ve been thinking about this week’s show and having this discussion. I think a lot of interesting topics have come out from it that we absolutely would want teo make available to everyone. Okay, well, if you block it, then let us know, and we’ll put the link, of course, on the show’s facebook page. All right, wey have to leave it there. Emily chan and jian takagi, prince attorney and principal respectively, of neo. The non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Thanks both for your time. Always a pleasure. Next week, campaign feasibility studies. If we can have fun with this topic, then there’s no stopping twenty martignetti non-profit radio eugenia cologne, a consultant in that area of campaign feasibility studies. Makes sense of what their value is and what the best practices are. And if you know something that rhymes with feasibility, please put that on the facebook page. I want to thank you. Mindy holloman, tanya how johnson and the folks at the partnership for philanthropic planning. For all their work and helping me to be a media sponsor for their conference last year and get those interviews to you that we played today and special thanks to gloria cur mean, at the partnership for those of you who are listening to the podcast, i’m speaking to both of you. Now i would love for you each of you, each of both of you to have to give a rating to the show, because right now on the itunes paige there’s so few ratings that that itunes won’t give a rating. So and actually, there are more than two of you that listen, i would beseech you to please go to itunes, are page in itunes and just click one through five stars. One means you hate it. Five means it’s great and we would love. I would be very grateful to have enough reviews that itunes feels comfortable giving us a of one through five star reading, and you can go directly to our itunes paige in itunes. Or you can go through non-profit radio dot net. The show is sponsored by g grace and company. Are you worried about the rising cost of rent for your organization, do you need a plan for real estate that you’re non-profit owns? George grace has been advising non-profits on their real estate decisions for over twenty five years. He offers listeners a complimentary thirty minute consultation. They are at g grace dot com or eight eight eight seven four seven two two three, seven. I hope you’ll be with us for the next live show on talking alternative, which is betsy cohen’s power of intuition. You don’t have to listen through the weekend, although you certainly can, because we’re streaming all time, but the next live show is monday at eleven betsey’s show. Power of intuition. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Janice taylor is our line producer. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with me next friday one to two p m eastern at talking alternative broadcasting always found at talking alternative dot com dahna hyre i didn’t think that dude in there getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving nothing. You could. Looking to meet mr and mrs wright but still haven’t found the one. I want to make your current relationship as filling as possible, then tuning on thursdays at one pm for love in the afternoon with morning alison as a professional matchmaker. I’ve seen it all with distinguished authors, industry coolers and experts on everything from wine to fashion. Join us as we discuss dating, relationships and more on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m julie, hi, i’m julia, what are you wearing? Welcome to j and j’s. Secrets of style and beauty. 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Listen to me very sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Hyre

076: Looking At Giving, 2011 & 2012 and Breaking The Mold In Traditional Endowment Design – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving

Kathryn Miree, president of Kathryn W. Miree & Associates and Turney Berry, attorney at Wyatt Tarrant & Combs

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

View Full Transcript
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Durney hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio your aptly named host it’s january twenty seventh twenty twelve i hope you were with me last week because what you would have heard and if you weren’t, this is what you missed revel in real estate. Chase magnuson of george washington university and alan thomas from the american college had small and midsize non-profits in mind, as they described howto identify prospects for real estate gif ts also how to cultivate, solicit and negotiate thes gif ts what is the due diligence that’s required to keep your charity safe from a crummy real estate gift? Also board oversight basics jean takagi are regular legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco to find oversight and explained how it should be executed to protect your charity and your board members, and that it was the first part of a conversation that will continue in february. This week, looking at giving twenty eleven and twenty twelve with me will be robbed. Mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving to talk about two thousand eleven’s giving by sector source and maybe even state, and we’ll also look ahead to predictions for this year, then breaking the mold in traditional endowment design from the national conference on philanthropic planning last year, catherine miree, consultant and attorney attorney berry look at alternatives to endowment design that are rooted in lawsuits, latto changes and difficulties implementing donor for pus is that have arisen with the way down. Mints are traditionally set up between the segments, as always, tony’s take to my block this week. You don’t need the fancy stuff for your plant e-giving the most sophisticated gifts are not necessary to have a very successful and appropriate plan giving program for your charity. I thought this was going to be last week’s blawg, but i messed up with some of the pre recordings, so look for that this week and i’ll say more about it on tony’s take two between the guests. We’re live tweeting this show as we do every week use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter this show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services i’m very grateful for their support right now we take a break, then i’ll be joined by rob mitchell of atlas of giving. And we’re going to talk about looking at giving last year and this. So stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m joined now by rob mitchell, ceo of atlas of giving, which you’ll find it atlas of giving dot com. Rob has twenty nine years working in and around non-profits as a fundraiser and executive and also a consultant, he is, as i said, ceo of atlas, of giving atlas e-giving measures analyzes and forecasts us charitable, giving monthly by sector source and state. I’m very pleased that his work brings him to the show. Robert, you’re welcome. Thanks. Tony is good to be with you. It’s. A pleasure to have you, um, tell us about the atlas of giving methodology to do these look backs and also predictions of charitable giving. I’ll be happy to the atlas of giving started. Actually, when i was a practitioner, i was chief development officer of the american cancer. So society i was named in that position in june of two thousand won our fiscal year started at the society in september one and then september eleventh the world changed for all of us. Our ceo called me that day and asked me what this meant for giving at the american cancer society acid john i couldn’t possibly know, but they can’t be good, and i’m just not sure how bad it’s going to be or how long it’s going to last. A year later, we felt very pleased that we had finished a bubble of flat, and when describing our success to our board, one of the board members said, well, how do you know you did so well? And we had information from a handful of other charitable organizations nationwide charity organizations, i mentioned those in a the boardmember said, well, that’s, just anecdotal information, isn’t there a benchmark that you can compare our results too? Well, the truth is that a benchmark existed, but it was only annual and it only came out six. It only comes out six months after the calendar year ends. You’re referring to giving yusa yes, i am. So that conversation bothered me, and then this boardmember followed up with me later and said, you know, it strikes me that charitable giving is tied to certain factors in the economy, and if you can figure out what those factors are, you might be able to measure charitable giving on a more timely basis so way initially, while i was still at the society. I had my research team there look into this and other things took priority. Bottom line is we didn’t we didn’t have the time or the energy to pursue it very long moved on to other things. I left this when i left the society in two thousand nine. This was one of the things that was troubling me that i really wanted to get a direct answer to i stayed with you thie idea stayed with you for eight years. It did it did. And so, um, my, uh, we started a company called philanthropy max, and one of the first things that my business partner and i decided to do was to pursue this. So we hired a team of twenty five phd level researchers and analyst and we gave them some variables to look at. They added to the list, the list they looked at was over seventy different economic and demographic variables and and forty two years of published annual e-giving data um, so that’s what they had to work with, they came back a few weeks later, and they said, well, this is remarkable. We have identified what factors are involved what? What economic and demographic factors are involved with us charitable giving. And we’ve developed an algorithm and we check our algorithm against forty two years of published data. We have a correlation rate of ninety nine and a half percent. And the good thing, tony, was that those out of those seventy variables that we started with it boiled down to just a handful and those air variables that are reported monthly or quarterly. So we had a way finally to measure charitable giving as it occurs in the united states. But that was aggregate giving, and that was we started giving away the atlas of e-giving in two thousand ten, and it was just the the national number, the aggregate national number. But we did it on a monthly basis. And by the way, we were also able to create a forecast based on those variables and the formula that we developed. But we wanted to go further. We wanted to have information monthly on sectors so arts, education, religion so forth, their eight different sectors and sources, individuals, foundations, corporations and the quest. And then we also really wanted to add to it states so we sent the research team that assignment, and they came back a few weeks later, and we were able to crack the code all with, uh, what we call up, um, correlation percentages well above ninety percent for everything and most cases well above ninety five percent. So a sense. So essentially, what we have is the ability to measure charitable giving as it occurs in the u s by sector source and stayed on a monthly basis and then forecast to up up to a year in advance. All right, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we want to talk about some of these variables that are in there, and i don’t know if we can get you to reveal the number fromthe seventy, but we’ll see how far we can go. And then, of course, we do want to talk about what e-giving look like last year and what it’s ah forecast to look like this year. So rob mitchell will join me after the break. He’ll stay with me, and i hope you do too. They couldn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternate network waiting to get in you could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall. This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr robert panna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Duitz welcome back. We are looking at giving two thousand eleven in two thousand twelve with rob mitchell, the ceo of atlas, of giving rob, what are some of the factors that were identified from these this big group of seventy before i get into specifics? One thing i will tell you, tony, is that the economic and demographic factors that affect one part of giving aren’t not the same ones that affect other parts of e-giving ok, things like gifts from individuals, uh, have a have a different set of factors than then gifts from corporations. The formula for the education sector is very different from the formula for the art sector. So the sum of the eiken without giving away any secrets. Sausage, everybody. I think everybody for years has understood that there is a relation. There has been a relationship between gross domestic product in the us and charitable giving their other factors that that are involved in different things, and they involve everything from stock prices, toe home prices to earnings to consumer confidence. There there there are a lot of different there are many different factors, but interestingly free sector for each source for each state. The number of factors affecting those various things are actually a pretty small. They’re different from sector to sector source to sort the source, the source and state to state. But each one of those the formula, the factors involved in each of those individual formulas is a pretty small number. And so now are your algorithms, um, patented is that is that appropriate to patent something like this way thought so and way. Obviously, when we crack the code, we rushed right down to a patent lawyer. And the long and the short of it was, he said, your coca cola and we said, what does that exactly mean? And he said, well, if you if you publish, if you if you patent something, it has to be published and even in the application process there’s some things which are revealed. And he said that would give it away. So coca cola, believe it or not, has never patented their formula for coca cola over the years. So, uh, on legal advice, we were advised that in this case, for this particular type type of formula, it would not be wise for us to patent it. And you had an honest attorney who said you don’t need my help, pretty much ok, i love that alright, so that’s let’s dive into some of these numbers overall? What? What are the conclusions from two thousand eleven? And then we’ll look, you know, we look at some specifics, but generally, well, i think the biggest story for two thousand eleven is that we experienced a real resurgence in giving in two thousand eleven, and the resurgence wass far outpaced the growth in the economy. This is one of those years where the folks who have tried to make strong correlations between gdpr charitable giving are going to be a little off quit because e-giving grew and two thousand eleven, two, three hundred forty’s over three hundred forty six billion dollars that’s a seven and a half percent increase over the two thousand ten number. Now, when you consider the fact that and the final numbers, they’re not in on gdpr for for two thousand eleven, but when they do come in, they’re going to be some where it’ll be probably in a range of between one and a half and one point eight percent growth in gdp, so you can see the charitable giving really did well, and there were some there was some important reasons for that. Okay, well, um let’s hold off on some of the reasons, i think because i want to get into some more of the conclusions and but before we do that, even what i think is kind of exciting is we don’t have to wait six months from the end of the year for for the giving us a report to come out. No, the in fact, the report is posted on our alice e-giving website right now. So, um, we have we have we offer three products. The first one is called out with standard and it is available for free with a subscription. And then we have atlas, professional and that’s everything monthly by sector sources state. Then we have we have something called atlas custom. Our technology enables us to build custom benchmarking and predictive models for individual non-profits to identify what particular economic and demographic factors effect they’re giving. But because your methodology is so much different than e-giving yusa, which is based on surveys, we have something much quicker than then. June, i guess, is when that typically comes. Out yes and way think are we think our technology has other advantages as well? There are other than giving us say, there are other indexes and surveys and blackbaud has won, yeah, and most of those air based on, um, a group of customers that sort of fit a profile, and they’re not necessarily representative of all sectors for of very small charities or very large charities. Um, the survey kind of methodology is important, and i don’t i don’t want to diminish the fact that surveys air important, but there are things related to my background which i know happen in the survey process, which can be troubling over time. And when i was at the american cancer society, just as an example, as a matter of board policy, we we did not disclose our e-giving information on a contemporary basis. Of course, we filed the nine nineties and those sorts of things did annual reports, but in terms for competitive reasons are bored felt like it was it was important for us not to participate in those kinds of survey let’s. Look let’s, look at the prediction for two thousand twelve you’re predicting ah, just under four. Percent growth yes, the current forecast is two thousand twelve will finish the year with with about three hundred and sixty billion dollars in total e-giving and that would be a three point nine percent increase over two thousand eleven. But like any forecast, and we update our forecasts each month, right? So as these as the as the factors or the are reported each month, because you’re basing them on government supply data, then you you change your your forecast for each month. Well, and there are other things that happened as well, okay, look like thousand won is a great example. Two thousand one was was a very good giving year for most organizations until september eleven things changed dramatically after that. So you’re able to factor in world events like that, i guess world events, whether yeah, and whether they’re man made or natural disasters, tax policy changes, changes in government, all kinds of things, um, those things are all taken to account, so in terms of the forecast we updated each month, and so if we get it just as an example, if we get a severe weather event of some of some kind, that the severe natural disaster. Say an earthquake in someplace. Hey, that’s going to be good? It could be overall, actually good for the charitable giving economy, depending on what kind of event it is. Because people there’s an outpouring, obviously. And things like the indonesian tsunami and the haitian earthquake. Sure, there was a huge outpouring. But the thing to remember is that the charitable giving economy is complex, and so, um and and it’s somewhat defined so that disaster relief organizations benefit uh, a great deal during times of the those kinds of disasters. But that money has to come from somewhere. And usually it comes from other places and there’s some additive. But it usually comes from other organisms. Other non disaster organizations. Let’s, look at some of the sectors for two thousand eleven. So the arts sector how how did that fair last year? The the, uh, art sector, if you bear with me for just a moment. Sure got eight, eight sectors here to look over. The art sector was up for the year. Six point eight percent and the forecast for next year is for it to finish up five point two percent, which is better. Than the than the forecast for the aggregate national e-giving and but then their results this year weren’t quite as good as the aggregate national number. Yes. Okay. And what about you have ah, sector called society benefit? What is that? The society benefit is his organization’s, um, usually passed through organizations like united way? Uh, those those kinds of organizations would be included in society benefit jewish federations, those sorts of things. Okay, just a reminder for our listeners. I’m with rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. We’re talking about looking at giving two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve. How did those society benefit organizations do? In last year, they were almost at the national average, up seven point three percent and they’re projected to be almost at the national average next year. Five point zero percent okay, so pretty steady, but then religion i see has been, uh, losing market share. Religion has been losing market share and that’s been a trend that is that has continued for a number of years. Religion did not finish as strong as the nation did in two thousand eleven. Oppcoll let me get to that number really quickly, so recision was up, but not as much as the overall that’s correct, it was up six point five percent, but here’s the interesting thing for the forecast. For next year, it’s only forecast to grow less than half half of the national growth rate for giving so it’s projected to be up one point six percent and thousand twelve what’s the current market share current market shortages um, thirty five percent and how many years has it been since that’s? What you said several, but do we know when that when the decline in market share began? I don’t have that at my fingertips, like certainly get you that information? Because i don’t have that at my fingertips, do we? Don’t you know that there was a declining market share this year? Okay? And it dropped one percent from thirty six percent down to thirty five percent this past year. All right. And what do you expect for next year? Are you able to forecast that market share? Yes, we are able to forecast the market share. And so now i was i was misstated. Religion went religion was at thirty seven percent in two thousand ten. It was a thirty six percent in two thousand eleven, and it looks like if things go according to the forecast that it could be as low as thirty five percent next year. Okay, do we know where that where those dollars air going and again, it’s not a zero sum game, but do you have a sense of that, or not? Really? Well, you know, we we look at lots of different news and information about a lot of different things, and one of the things that’s no secret is that mainline churches in the u s have been losing membership, and it continues to be a problem for them, so that certainly is a contributing factor. The one thing that has not helped religion this past year and this is true of a lot of organizations that rely on lots of small gifts from lots of small donors, is that unemployment as a factor, has been particularly significant because when people fear being unemployed or they are unemployed, they discontinue their giving and often don’t resume their giving until they’ve had a chance to catch up after being re employed of course, like ours and furniture and clothes and taking vacations. That have been put off paying off debt, etcetera? Yes, so that that lags actually from the so the giving of a lag from a change from a decrease in the unemployment rate. Yes. Okay. Okay. Let’s, look a little at some of the sources, and i know you’re able tto look at individual foundation corporate m bequest. What happened to individual giving last year? Individual e-giving i was actually really, really good this past year. Individual e-giving was up. Um a little hang on one second. Let me get to that information. Individual giving was up seven point eight percent, slightly better than the national average. And the individual e-giving forecast for next year is pretty close to what we forecast for the aggregate it’s three point seven percent. Okay. And what was the just the overall dollar amount of individual giving for last year? Two hundred sixty point one. Eight billion. And that represents what percentage of total giving? Seventy five percent has that seventy five percent been pretty steady. It has been very study. It is. Okay. Um, let’s, look at some others. So foundation giving what? What happened that last year? And what’s forecast foundation giving. Wasn’t quite as good as the national seven point five percent. It was up six point, two percent in two thousand eleven, but next year it’s forecast to be currently forecast to be better the national giving it’s it is forecast to go up six point three percent. So steady growth in foundation e-giving from two thousand eleven to two thousand twelve way have just a couple of minutes left. Rob this number’s a really interesting is only so much time we can spend on them. What about the bequest numbers? Tony? I had a feeling you were gonna ask me, i’ll as planned giving is in my heart, of course, save the best for last bequest giving was exactly up as the same amount as the national e-giving average, it was up seven point five percent. It isn’t, uh it isn’t keeping pace. In two thousand twelve, according to our forecast, it’s going to be up three point, zero percent, and, of course, these air realized request. This is not expected, of course, and what percentage of total giving is a bequest? Revenue bequest revenue is, uh seven percent. Okay. And that’s been steady. Is that right? Okay. Last thing i’m gonna ask you is just something maybe a little fun because that we just have, like thirty seconds or so left. Since you can do this by state what’s the one of the most and least generous states in the country. Well, the most generous states in two thousand eleven for pennsylvania, illinois and florida according to their growth rates, pennsylvania had experienced upward are experienced growth of eleven point eight percent. Illinois eleven point four percent florida ten point five percent ok, and how about the other end? Um, there are a whole group of states which were there. Isn’t there isn’t a clear leader at the bottom, if you will. Okay, all right, so we weigh don’t have time to really to go through the list. We don’t want to embarrass anybody, any state randomly, so we’ll just leave it at that and we do have to leave it there for a mitchell is ceo of atlas of giving, you’ll find it atlas of giving dot com we were spending time talking about looking at giving two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve rob thank you very much for being a guest. Tony it’s. Been great to be with you. Thank you, real pleasure in very interesting numbers. Thank you. Right now, we’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s take to stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour my block this week, which i thought was going to be my block last week, but it’s, not the block last week. It’s the block this week, so look for it this week. You don’t need the fancy stuff for your plan e-giving for small and midsize charities really having just a bequest marketing program and stopping there can be a very respectable planned e-giving program. First of all, bequests are where any program starts or irrespective of what your mission is or how big you are. You’re always going to start with requests because they’re the most popular planned gift expect about seventy five percent of your plan gifts to be bequests, and they’re easy for people to understand. Everybody knows what a will is, everybody needs a will. I may not have it, but everybody needs one and they know what one is so it’s an easy type of giving toe understand through a state plans and, um, for a lot of charities, that’s the place to end because you don’t need to spend money on expertise tohave people including you in their will so you could be going into real estate or the sophisticated trust or even charitable gift annuities, but you don’t have to don’t let a fear of the more sophisticated gift and the expertise required for some of them keep you away from inaugurating a plan giving program, start with requests and stopped there and it’s a very respectable and solid plan giving program, and that is tony’s take two for friday, january twenty seventh, the fourth show of two thousand twelve. Now i have breaking the mold in traditional endowment design to pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning last year and here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We are on the river walk in san antonio, texas. My guests right now are catherine miree attorney berry catherine is principal of katherine w miree and associates in birmingham, alabama, and attorney berry is a partner in law firm of wyatt, tarrant and combs in louisville, kentucky. Catherine durney welcome, thanks so much pleasure to have you. Your seminar topic is breaking the mold options in traditional endowment design. Catherine wanted to start with you. What the, uh what do we need to break the mold? What’s wrong with traditional design? Tony, i think if you look at the issues and lawsuits right now, where donors are suing charities, what it really reveals is that perpetual is a long time and it’s not entirely practical, to be very prescriptive in creating a long term funds to really look at the issues and talk about some of the solutions to the problems we see out there right now. Okay, durney, let’s, turn to the attorney. What are just some of the legal issues that we’re seeing in these lawsuits that katherine’s talking about right? Well, you you need to look at it from three different points of view. From the donor’s point of view. A planner and a charity are promising that they will do to certain things. And the donor believes him on the donor’s family believes them. And so the question is, can we really design an endowment that will work the way the donor wants over a very long period of time? Then you got issues from the charity’s pointed to it. Does it? Does a charity really want in particular endowment, particularly? If it’s if it’s very, very specific, it may be one thing if what you’re doing is saying we want teo, i had to pay for historical research. But if we say this is for research into the causes of world war i in one hundred years, that may not be something that the university say needs money for and the last, the last aspect that will be talking about is awareness of the effects on society. Is it good for us to have enormous accumulations and endowments? On the other hand, let’s suppose that we cut back on those for any of a variety of reasons. Is that good for society? They’re just complicated issues. And we like tio start people thinking about you and catherine a cz we’re getting into the topic. Let’s, let’s, define endowment. What were we talking about when we’re in these funds? What we mean that’s a great question to may endowment is any poo of fund set aside for the long term use of a charity or for charitable purposes? And so, in that respect, it could be what we all consider a traditional endowment at a university or hospital or any charity. Where the donor makes a gift to the charity and says, don’t spend the principal use only their earnings, or it could be a vehicle like a private foundation, which we see among a lot of the wealthy and a private foundation is perpetual and purpose, and it is, in truth, a pool of funds you’re required by law to distribute five percent of you’re investable assets that you but that’s an endowment, a supporting or could be an endowment, a donor advised funds could be an endowment, a charitable lied trust could be an endowment substitute. So these air all funds where the principle is invested in the earnings are used for charitable purposes, okay? But as attorney pointed out, the donor’s may have specific things that they want to fund, so if we’re going to be donor-centric shouldn’t we just allow them to do what they really want to do with their money and their gift? I love talking about donor-centric what that maims it doesn’t mean letting the donor run amok with a charitable purpose that would take a charity off mission, for example, attorney has a great example of that that makes me smile. Go ahead. Not my favorite one is let’s suppose that i wanted to go to my my church on tao, the singing of amazing grace. You can’t use the money to seeing how great thou art, but you can use it to sing amazing grace and some of the pastor says we’re going to do with that gift. We can have special robes for the singing of amazing grace. We could have a special rise or for the choir to sit to stand on, but all i’m really doing is disrupting the operation of the church and charity should be very sensitive to that, and i don’t, and somebody should come to me and say, well, it’s, wonderful that you like amazing grace and we can call the fund the amazing grace find, but but we just can’t administer a fun like that on a reasonable donors is going to go ahead and change that if you get some thoughtful back and forth and emphasizes his, catherine said the importance donor-centric donors want to help the mission of the endowment charity they’re they’re they’re working with, so you need to meld those, too. And catherine, if you’re attorney said, if the donor is reasonable and really wants to help the charity. Aren’t they going to be receptive to the explanation that that kind of purpose for an endowment just doesn’t suit us? Two of the things to the trends that i see that i think bear on this issue are one term endowments and to creating flexibility within the endowment and a method for or mechanism for change, i’ll give you a good example. I had a donor walk in and wanted to create a million dollar endowment for a program called success by six and the conversation i had with that does age six, i assume not six o’clock in the afternoon, right? Right, trying to do it in a day, six years success by six is an early childhood intervention education intervention program that catches kids when they’re three or four and prepares him tto learn and it’s a critical time in their lives and a lot of poor families. I don’t have that kind of support for children, and my question to the donor was, what are you really trying to accomplish? And when they said, i love these programs that go in and prepare young children, my response was let’s say that let’s don’t name a program that might not be here in a few years. Let’s talk about outcomes, let’s talk about what you want to do, so donors air prescriptive because they haven’t really thought of any other options, and i think our job is planners is to back him up a little bit and talk more about outcomes and purposes in terms, so we have options. We have the reflect, the limited term endowment and what was the other that you mentioned flexibility put in a plan b, a plan c in the event that the first purpose is no longer impactful? Effective makes okay now attorney in your work are you seeing donors who are receptive to these breaking the mold of what we’ve been doing for decades? Sure, let let let’s take, for example, and arts group the louisville orchestra if you have a donor who wants to benefit the louisville orchestra and wants to create a very long term endowment, it’s pretty easy to persuade the donor that a fund should be for the benefit or castro music in louisville, kentucky, an example of which is the level orchestra and that’s what? Should be funded first, but if one hundred years from now there’s some other something, then the larger purpose is funding live classical music and louisville today, we can’t really conceive of that it any other way than an orchestra that may be true in one hundred years, but but who knows? Education is another really good, and you have the issue of bankruptcy. Our orchestra and birmingham went bankrupt and took down with it a number of funds that donor said contributed so in attorneys example, what do you do? Have you protected the funds in one of our jobs? Is planners if we’re representing the donor, is to protect those funds for the use that they intended. So what do you do in that situation? And i hear that a lot from potential donors. What happens if the college or the orchestra doesn’t exist any longer? How do we protect the donor? Well, they’re they’re number of ways you could do that, one of which is you can put the assets the endowment in a separate organization in a philanthropic fund, a private foundation, a community foundation, a supporting or where it is not the charity’s directly, so that’s one way to do it another way is to have a gift over it’s a little extreme. What does that mean? Gift over way have jargon jail here on tony martignetti not probably don’t my antenna are always up when i’m with an attorney, right? Right? No way. What did you say left over as long as as long as that particular organization is doing x, then the endowment will be theirs. But if not, it will go over to a second organization. So the second organization has an incentive to police what the first organization is doing so let’s say let’s say that what i do is i create endowment for ah, for a hospital that’s supposed to be used to support it’s it’s women’s programs and for whatever reason, the hospital stopped doing that it goes in and becomes a long term care facility. If i have a gift over to another hospital, the other hospital is going to raise the red flag and say, oh, first hospital isn’t doing this anymore where’s our money? Well, that’s, a very that’s, a very good way to do it, and you’re finding non-profits are willing to accept that oversight. By another local non-profit i mean, but but because again they don’t they don’t think they’re ever going to get out of that business, and so it helps them do whatever it is they want to do. The harder ones, quite honestly, are something like a library where you have donors who really want to fund collections, and you have to have the very difficult conversation, particularly with elderly people, that collections may not be books, and they really don’t know when they say not books, they think, oh, it’s, going to be some endless room of computers and dvds and and a bunch of kids playing and this is not what we want to do, and you have to say, well, it’s, not entirely true, if, if in in, you know, the year one hundred somebody had endowed the creation of a pirate’s manuscript, you you would have wanted them to fund gutenberg, and they all kinda well, yeah, that’s, that’s, true, but but those air harder organizations, catherine let’s, take a step back and think about some smaller organizations that that really just wanted. Maybe they’re at the stage where they say we need to have an endowment. We want to start an endowment. What should they be thinking of our around the issues that you attorney are concerned about? I think the first place to start is the role of endowment, both internally. I always looking to cases for endowment. One is thie internal case. Why do we need an endowment, how we’re going to use it. So everybody over the board is saying, we need one, you want to, you want to question, why, okay? And why do you need one? And what is its role going? Tobe a and i don’t think people talk about that enough. And then that second case is washing donors. Invest in the endowment, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community oppcoll oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales or maybe better? Writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Told you. Durney what attorney, in terms of structuring endowment, from a legal perspective, what does the charity beginning that process need to be thinking of? Well, you you need to decide, is it going to be an internal endowment or an external in down there? You’re going to keep it on your books or are you going to create an organization or creative fund at a community ways you mentioned earlier, communiqu, conditional donorsearch vie, having donors use their own donor advised funds that said, ok, so what do you want in house or do you or do you not? And then what sort of what sort of restrictions are you going to impose? What sort of gifts are you going to solicit? One of the things that that i fine at least, is that often time, endowments and plan giving generally very unfortunately serves a work avoidance function, it is we’ve got somebody on staff or the board says, oh, we’ve got a lot of older donors we need to raise endowment dollars from them, but nobody really wants to go ask anybody for endowment money, so they say we’ll order some brochures and we’ll mail the brochures out and we’ll have a plan and we’ll have a committee, and at the end of the day, they’re shocked to discover that nobody gives any money and so they then divert the person to doing special events, and three or four years later, somebody on the board says, we need to get serious about endowment, and we start the process all over again, you know? Oh, and and and you see it when you look at resumes, most of the resumes among the smaller charities in certainly in our area there the plan giving officers have us much special event experience as they do playing e-giving experience the ones where you have success are the people who are committed, and they say, it’s future, we’re going after the future all of fund-raising at the end of the day, it’s just telling your story. And if you have people in the organization who aren’t comfortable telling the story, i e fund-raising that’s a problem kapin you’re shaking your head, as tony was saying, future anything you want to say they’re no, i agree, i agree with him. Absolutely. I generally look at annual operating annual fund-raising supporting operations plan giving and deferred giving supporting endowment because it’s a one time gift, it perpetuates the donor’s ongoing gift. We know that those gifts come from the most committed donors, so i don’t disagree with you. You know, i thought maybe you were shaking your head in chagrin over over organizations that might be doing what i do. I see it all the time. So how should we structure internally in terms of fund-raising to avoid the the problems that attorney is describing when we’re starting an endowment, campaign or program? You know, i think an endowment campaign on its own is the hardest thing any charity will ever do. I look at it as part of the bigger picture, part of the bigger case. Two donors that they need to invest now and in the future, i see. I really think having people the son to play e-giving and having the disciplined allocate those gifts to endowment as quasi endowment, which is bored. Allocated as opposed to donor ellicott. Ok, let’s, talk a little about that quasi endowment. That was okay, too. Real types of endemic one is true endowment. That is where the donor places to restrictions on those funds that you cannot spend the principal. You may only use the earnings. The other is quasi endowment, and quasi is bored. Allocated endowment. That means the gift comes in without the restrictions. But the board itself places an endowment because it has the discipline to do that. And that is the easiest way. Oh, so that’s that’s an unrestricted gift that might just be a thousand dollar annual gift. It’s and the board makes a difficult decision. Yes, to not spend it right and put it into its true endowment. Right. And, you know the other argument i usually give, charity says if you budget a state gifts, you are basically budgeting death and that it’s a little tricky in terms of the unrestricted gifts being allocated to endowment by the board. Is there ah, policy or a guideline that you like to see a certain percentage of unrestricted gifts being devoted to endowment? I look at it. Mohr is all the testamentary gifts. The things that are triggered by the death of the donor. If the charity will put one hundred percent of those an endowment, it will basically in tao in many cases, the donor’s annual gift i wanted to. See have all that discipline and then if they need, if you have policies it’s, goingto be howto we withdraw some of those funds, but how do we use them that’s so hard to do, though in especially in the midst of a recess? Shin still, but attorney, i see you nodding. You agree it is, but you could never make any progress. It seems to me if you’re if you are always having to find new donors, you want to be able to tell the story two new people every year, but you want to continue to capture the story of our capture, the people you’ve already told story too. So if you’ve got a donor who gives you a thousand dollars a year, if you could get ten thousand dollars as a request or is a longer term gift of some sort, then this is good because they’ve basically funded their gift and now i can go after the next person aunt, i can actually expand and grow and develop in a way that it’s very difficult to do if you every year are starting from scratch. Of course, catherine, as our consultant, we know that the cost of acquiring a new donor is considerably greater than e-giving follow-up gift from an existing it isthe and i look at it it’s maximizing the donor’s role with the charity. If they are giving to you every year, you need to make that ask that they give in perpetuity and many of them will you’re not going to find people walking around on the streets that there going to make it down my gifts that haven’t that don’t have any other connection to your charity know you’re looking for that commitment in terms of and doesn’t that commitment. Evenflo teo two donors who were giving it small levels, right? Let’s, talk a little about that. Catherine. I see direct mail organizations whose average gifts eyes on an annual basis is very low. They don’t have those hi n major gifts, and yet there is committed and they might leave an average of st gift of thirty or forty thousand. It may not be as large as the major gift donors, but it’s significant, no charity would turn that what? So look to your small giving your donors were making small gifts, but doing it consistently maybe that zach decade arm or decades? Sometimes we see in longstanding organism right best the number one indicator, and what i have learned is that many of those donors make their only major gift at death because they can’t afford to do it doing like we have to leave it there been with katherine miree principle of katherine w miree and associates in birmingham, alabama, and turny bury a partner in a law firm, wyatt, tarrant and combs in louisville, kentucky. Catherine, attorney welcome. Thank you very much for being here. Thanks. Enjoyed the topic was breaking the mold options in traditional endowment designing your listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on films about the planning two thousand eleven. That was my interview with katherine miree internee berry from the national conference on philanthropic planning on breaking the mold in traditional endowment design. I want to thank everybody this week, my thanks to rob mitchell for being a guest on dh catherine miree and turny berry for taking time. Teo, sit with me at the national conference on philanthropic planning and also thanks to the organizers of that conference. It was a pleasure to be a media sponsor there. Next week, tapping entrepreneurs for your cause with jerry stengel principle of stengel solutions were going to talk about the value that entrepreneurs khun give you and how to approach them. 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