465: Buy-In Bitches & Process Blocking Your Progress? – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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This week: 

Buy-In Bitches
I gave that title to Carrie Lewis Carlson and Lara Koch as they explained how to get your boss to listen to you; to get your boss’s buy-in when you get it—and they don’t. They’re savvy, they’re straightforward and they shared tons of strategies. They’re bitchin’. Carrie is from CLC Consulting and Lara is at Smithsonian Institutions. (Originally aired 11/9/18)

Process Blocking Your Progress?
Stephanie Zasyatkina wants you to pay attention to your org’s workflow. Identifying and overcoming pain points and inefficiencies will put your methods in line with your mission. She’s with InReach Solutions. (Also from 11/9/18.)

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

443: Giving Tuesday 2019 Part I & Candid – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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This week: 

Giving Tuesday 2019 Part 1
It’s time to start your prep for this rapidly growing giving day, this year on December 3rd. Asha Curran, CEO of Giving Tuesday, gets you started.

Candid
GuideStar and The Foundation Center have merged to form Candid. Their respective former CEOs are with me to explain what it means for your nonprofit. They’re Jacob Harold and Brad Smith, Candid’s CEO.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, very nice to be back in the studio live after several weeks pre recorded and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of Mega Lo Kyra if you handed me the idea that you missed today’s show. E-giving. Tuesday 2019 Part one It’s time to start your prep for this rapidly growing e-giving day this year on December 3rd, Asha Curren, CEO of giving Tuesday, gets you started, and Candid Guide Star and the Foundation Center have merged to form Candid their respective former CEO’s air with me to explain what it means for your non-profit. They’re Jacob Harold and Brad Smith candids. New president on Tony’s take to summertime is planning time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and Technology enabled. 20 dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers whether cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to 444999 It’s a pleasure to welcome Asher current back to the show with a new title she is CEO of giving Tuesday the global generosity movement that we’re going to learn a lot about. She’s also chief innovation officer at the 92nd Street Y, but not for long. She’s a fellow at Stanford University’s Digital Civil Society lab. She’s at Radio Free Asha and giving Tuesday Is that giving Tuesday dot or GE? I should current Hello and welcome back, Tony. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. It’s my pleasure. Thank you. Um So tell me about your this new, exciting title that you’ve got CEO of of ah e-giving Tuesday. I didn’t know like that. Sounds to me like CEO of Of metoo are I don’t know, how does that work or CEO of Christmas? It is pretty funny. Well, so e-giving Tuesday’s the movement and on DH movements have lots and lots of leaders and all those leaders Coke create e-giving Tuesday e-giving Tuesday is also how the leadership and has a new organization. And as you know, we have seen incubated at the 92nd Street y forgiving Tuesday’s the 1st 7 and 1/2 years and so we’re going to be transitioning to become independent, which is really exciting It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference to your average e-giving tease, a participant or or a fan or super ambassador. But it makes a big difference to us because it’s really interesting. Actually, they consider that for everything giving Tuesday has has done and for how much it’s grown in the past eight years. E-giving Tuesday has never actually had a single full time employees, myself included, and that just became an unsustainable situation. So the 90 Seconds she wide Belfer center, which I direct the full time leadership and giving Tuesday, needs full time leadership. And and so I’m going to be transitioning out to work full time on giving Tuesday and really double down on arika. Wonderful, you’re our first guest on about giving Tuesday was Henry Henry. Tim’s the CEO of the many secretary. Why, after the first after the very 1st 1 Andi have sampled it from time to time after that, So So this is a paid position, all right, Where does the where does the money come to pay to pay you? Is that is that from the Why? No way. Stop, That’s that part’s not really changing. We fundrasing freezing Tuesday we had fund-raising for years has been very generously supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, so they will continue to support us and we will continue to raise additional funds as well to support all the different parts of the movement that that we want to support and cultivate, including our leadership team. Yeah, and what are the other leadership positions? I don’t I don’t think people know this And plus, it’s all brand new so but I don’t think I know that it’s not new. It’s actually it’s not brand new over there. Over the years, we have built up e-giving Tuesday team court what we call our core team because it’s really important to distinguish the are core team from the leaders that exist all over this country and all over the world who are leading like entire giving Tuesday country movement Right there. We don’t consider them part of our quarantine, but there’s certainly part of our broader community and our broader network. We all work extremely closely together, but our team of 10 is my self, A data lead. We have a strategy lead way, have a fund-raising and data support. We have a global community manager. We have a social media manager. So yes, there are definitely people that are devoting lots and lots of time, making sure that we amplify all the good work that giving Tuesday is doing all over the world. You know, sometimes we have, you know, certain strategic objective that come from us. But often what happens e-giving Tuesday is that we see something, something meaningful, something inspiring, something that we think a lot of tension organically emerging from the movement. And then we, as a team talk about how we can best support that. So there have been lots of different examples our community campaigns, for example, which are entire state or small cities or big town whatever that come together to create a e-giving Tuesday campaign that pulls together all of the different segments and sectors of that community and really reflects that communities, identity and population and a sense of civic pride so that we had no expectation that that who happened, We just had no idea when we first launched e-giving Tuesday and that first, you know, years that Henry and I were working on it. That’s not something we expected to see. It happened. And so our job as a team was to make it at six. Cecil, as we possibly could offer all of the additional support convening power, all of that to what was emerging organically. Another example is our country’s leaders. We had no idea getting Tuesday. We cross borders now, As you know, we we predicated it on Black Friday and Cyber Monday on Thanksgiving, for that matter. But I mean, that’s all pretty us focused. But almost immediately giving Tuesday started to cross Borders, and now we’ve We’ve passed 60 countries, so we spend a lot of time in this sort of Pierre learning ecosystem that those country leaders have come to comprise. Okay, I see so right, not new, but I still, I think, widely unknown. I think people think it’s all undistributed, and, um, I don’t think that’s commonly know that there’s this leadership team of 10. That’s really no, I think you’re absolutely right and partial Tony, that’s kind of fine design, like we’re not, You know, we’re not enough self promotion, you know, exactly minutes, and I think it’s really interesting. You know, a movement can be leaderless right and that there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just a different model on DH. Movement can be leader full, and we like to think of it in that way that we’re not the only leaders of the movement. But we are way are certainly hear ourselves as its backbone. Yeah, it’s all. It’s all very new power to give old Marge Teo Henry’s book and he’s been on talking about. He was on talking about it when it came out. Yeah, it’s all very new power. So are the Are the 10 people going to be full time e-giving Tuesday employees or just US CEO? No. So what? We’re going to be full time team final e-giving on Tuesday, the full time attention it really needs and hopefully, you know, fingers crossed. Many will raise enough money. Teo even hyre. Beyond that, I don’t think we need to ever become a you know, a a massive team. I don’t think we ever need hundreds of people, but I do think that as we expand to all of these different countries as we get more deeply into data work, we certainly want to be as well staffed as we possibly can be to try to achieve everything that we’ve achieved. But we’re very nontraditional when it comes to fund-raising as well, because we feel like we could do good with whatever we raised, right? So if we raise $100 will do $1000 worth of good with it. If we raise $1,000,000 etcetera Will Will will always parlay that into into exponential growth, as we have so far. All right, Well, congratulations on this new transition. Yeah, that’s happening in just a couple weeks, right? Is it July 1st? Is that one? It is, indeed. It’s happening on a lifer, so it’s really it’s really coming up, and I’m very excited about it. Awesome. Uh, we all are. All right. We gotta take our first break standby for me, Asha Pursuing two. They’ve got a podcast. Ah, and it is Go beyond. It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin, who is a friend of non-profit radio, of course, and has been a guest. Recent episodes of Go Beyond our Self Care for Leaders and for Digital Trends. For 2019 you’ll find their podcast go beyond at pursuant dot com slash resource is now. Let’s go back to giving Tuesday 2019 part one. All right, so that’s, er good news. Fabulous news. Congratulations again. So let’s, uh this is going to be the first of two times that Will, we’ll have you as, ah have the pleasure of you as a guest and now honored to have you as a full time CEO. Uhm, that’s kind of like that’s kind. Like any sample ward, our social media contributors. She started when she was marketing manager or whatever. What marketing lead for? Not for non-profit Technology Network. And then when she became CEO, she I’m glad stayed on as our social media on DH Tech contributor. So you’ll sew in your new position as a full time CEO of e-giving Tuesday. Well, we’ll look forward to having you back, and I’m glad you’re here today. So this whole announcement, Graham. I’m looking forward to you. Thank you. All right, um, so let’s get people motivated. Who have heard of giving Tuesday? Still, there’s still some reluctance, but I see I hear that waning. It’s not like in year one or two where, you know there was there. Was there a lot of naysayers that I think, at least in the press that I read. I think that’s declined. They’re still occasional, but you know, that’s fine. I mean, they’re entitled to their opinions. But for those who need some motivation for being involved with e-giving Tuesday on December 3rd of this year, what can you provide? How it’s growing, how easy it is to participate, etcetera. Oh, boy, we’re to start. You’re gonna have to shut me up, Tony. Okay, we’ll start with Okay, Let’s start with a couple of common misconceptions. Maybe works. So one thing that I hear expressed a concern is that e-giving Tuesday’s encouraging people to move money around on different days rather than being additive. Uh, we’ve done extensive data analysis on this and you know conclusively that giving Tuesday is indeed providing a net list and giving. So, you know, I think the concern that you’re simply moving the donor from December 31st to December December 3rd is pretty misplaced. I think instead, it’s best to think of giving Tuesday as as an opportunity to be more experimental as an opportunity to be more collaborative, not to use the buzzword, but as an opportunity to beam or innovative. I think that these are all muscles that be non-profit community really, really needs to flex its an opportunity to become more more digitally literate on fluent and and again, I think that that’s the muscles that the non-profit world needs. TTO play. So we see a lot of money being raised. Obviously, on the first e-giving Tuesday, we were able to count $10,000,000 being raised online, and they were able to count because, as we all know, data and the sexual notoriously poor and were able to count simply on aggregate total of the different transactional platforms to give us numbers and we add them all together. So that was 10,000,000 in 2012 and it was north of 400,000,000 this past e-giving Tuesday. And that’s that’s $400,000,000 that is made up of gifts, on average size just over $100. So we’re not talking big philanthropy here. We’re talking the grassroots e-giving. Our data also indicates, but be, uh, about 1/4 of giving Tuesday. Donors are new and about 75% are consistent, so it’s an opportunity both to rally your supporters that you have already and also to engage new ones so that sense of experimentation is often around. How could we speak to people in a new way that really gets them engaged with our cause or our issue? It means playing with a lot of traditional assumptions. And what I see a lot of is sort of operating, making decisions based on quote unquote best practices. That might have been true 10 years ago, even five years ago. That simply aren’t true now. And so I think it’s a really good opportunity. Just start from the ground floor, right? If you if you didn’t thank you. If you thought you didn’t know anything about donorsearch gauge Mint or stewardship, what would be the things that you would try? WAY have over 80% of our participating non-profits report to us that they use the day to try something new. To me, that’s a big metric of success. Even if they don’t make their goals because trying something new, that sense of experimentation bye collaboration. I mean reaching out to other organizations to look at them as mission aligned collaborators rather than competitors, as we so often do. We see a lot of that around giving Tuesday, and it really requires taking a step out of your comfort zone. But the lessons learned from things like that and the new muscles being strengthened, our things that benefit and organization all year round. Once you once you learn new lessons, you can’t unlearn them. So we don’t think of giving Tuesdays. Just how much money can you raise on this one day? But really, how can you think differently about engaging people around your mission, right? Not just around your bottom line, but really reasoned that you are the reason that you exist. The thing that you were here, the tackle okay. And the sector has been talking a lot about for years about collaboration. I I’ve heard it Mawr in grants, funding applications, clap teamwork, collaboration with other non-profits. But you’re talking about it in the digital space. So it’s it’s it’s billing over From from what I thought was the genesis of it, which was foundations wanting to Seymour collaboration. Yeah, I mean, when I when I talk about the kind of collaboration I see on giving Tuesday as far more than digitally, you know, we see groups of arts and culture organizations, groups of immigrants, rights organizations, groups, of women’s health organizations are looking out for each other to try to really Coke create not just a fundraising campaign, but really a storytelling campaign and awareness raising campaign. So it becomes less about how much can we raise versus them? Where’s our logo gonna go? How much credit are we going to get? And much more about we all exist to tackle this same mission. How creative can we get in telling a story about why this cause is so important? So I draw a real distinction between transactional collaboration, which is much more along the lines of I’ll scratch your Back, you scratch mine and transformational collaboration, which really involved taking the strength of different organizations and, frankly, different people. Right, because all of this stuff is actually driven by human thought organizations and bringing them together to create something entirely new. So I’m very in favor of that latter part of that lot of definition of collaboration, which also carries, Let’s face it, more risk right in giving up some control over exactly what you’re going to do in the first roll over some of your data, things like that on DH. I’m very much of the mind, that kind of risk tolerance, something that we that we very much wanna build If I’m in an organization and I want to raise this with my vice president or my CEO, how do I start to get buy-in? I’m going to find something that e-giving tuesday dot or gets going to help me get some organizational buy-in or get some talking points that I consulted. Thing. Raise the conversation. I think you know, doing this accessible giving Tuesday campaign. First of all, it doesn’t have to be its resource intensive. So that’s one way to get buy-in, right. Any any good leader should be encouraging their employees and not just only their senior employees, but all of their employees to really think creatively and to try new things and have some tolerance for failure. So I think trying something new on giving Tuesday can can be a pretty light lift financially, and that’s one way Teo that’s one way to sell it. Pointing to the data is another way, right? This is This is something that’s raising people a lot of money that’s forcing people to think different organizationally. That’s become so much greater than just a fund-raising Day that you know the reasons to try it are ample, and the reasons not to are few. It’s not going to do If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. We’re not about every single person participating e-giving Tuesday. But I think if you do go on giving Tuesday website way, always say there’s no such thing as stealing and giving Tuesday. There’s only joyful replication, so we way absolutely encouraged people go online. Read the hundreds of case studies that you’ll find their fund-raising case studies non sun grazing case studies, collaborative case studies, community foundation case studies and go on and on and on corporate, You know, houses of worship and find something that works for someone else and try it so it should be an opportunity to innovate. It shouldn’t be crusher to innovate, right? People should feel a sense of, ah, a sense of adventure when they embark on getting to a campaign. And I think one of the reasons that giving Tuesday is so sticky for people I mean real people, regular people, not sector people is because it has a very celebratory overtone right e-giving Tuesday is not about morning. All of the weighty issues that we all have to deal with it out, celebrated in our ability to make an impact on them. And so if you see all the photos we have the privilege of seeing from all over the world, we’ll see over and over again. Is Thies peace with pictures of people together and looking really happy? So there’s something about this sort of communal right giving as a human community that is very sticky to people. And I think that organizations do the best when they leverage that fact. Can you share a story? I know I’m putting on the spot. One of the one of the collaborative stories. Maybe it’s ah, couple of medium size non-profits. Anything come to mind that you can share so we could take this out of the abstract? Sure, although I hate to do it just there are so many. But I will take a couple of examples and before you do that, I will also say along the lines of selling it internally. Okay. Another misconception about giving Tuesday is that big organizations like multi national you know, huge budget non-profits do better than small and medium sized non-profits, and that is emphatically not the case. In fact, small and medium sized non-profits tend to do better, then huge non-profits, and I’m I’m quite sure that the reason for that is first of all, those. Those small non-profits can often tell Justus compelling a story, but also they often have the ability to be more agile. They left weighted down by bureaucracy, so they’re often idea they’re often able to just sort of put an idea out there, give it a try without having to run it through multiple layers of approval. Rating is important. That’s important for people to know. So one example that comes to mind is there’s a small community foundations in a town called Bethel, Alaska, which has, if I’m not mistaken, 12 area non-profits. Now this town is is the administrative hub for a series of native Alaskan villages that surrounded It has won four way stop, and a few years ago, on employee at that community foundation, not even the most senior employees decided to do a collaborative effort that brought together all of vessels non-profit. And so they did a volunteer campaign where people stood outside of that four way stop all day in a sub xero temperatures, and they gathered donations from passing motorists talking about their area, non-profits and all of the good they do. And then they divided that money equally between those non-profits. So that was an entirely new model and also just amazing story of leadership. That young woman is entrepreneurial and she is creative, and she was able to, you know, put this game changing idea out there. And so the fact that that could be implemented in a town like vessel and also in let’s say, the entire state of Illinois or New York or Arkansas is exactly what we had in mind when we created giving Tuesday as an idea that could really be adapted to anyone or any town or anything or any cause. One collaborative story that I really loved. Tony. There was a group of women’s health organizations in Wisconsin that had always been competing against each other for donors. Ellers we see so often that’s pretty much the default in the sector. And instead of doing that, they decided Teo again do this collaborative campaign. It was not about their their individual P and l’s. That was not about their individual brands But that was about the mission that they were trying to serve collaboratively rights and sew up. That seems so obvious, but I think often mission can become subsumed to brand. So these these organizations were all trying to help women in various ways. They got a local tavern to devote space to them tohave an awareness raising party, basically and fundraiser. And then they had that they got a ton of people came and they again distributed the funds equally. We also see models where organizations will come together, do a collaborative storytelling campaign, and then fundez goto directly to the whatever organization people want to donate too. So it doesn’t have to be that sort of equal divvying up of the pot. It doesn’t have to be anything right. It could be whatever a group of organizations decides hyre to co create together on DH more entrepreneurial better. In my opinion, this is a thank you. These this excellent storytelling in news for our listeners because they’re in small and midsize non-profits and your your larger behemoth organizations are are going to be to your point. First of all, it’s going to be difficult. And then in the end. It’s probably gonna not be so successful anyway, even if they’re even if you can overcome hurdles in willingness to collaborate. But but the small organizations, they have that agility. You’re right. They’re not so deep. And they can. They can knock on the door of another local organization or one you know, many states away, but you know, digitally, they can come together. Um, that so very good news for our listeners. Yeah, you’re exactly right. And then a big priority for us here. Tony is going to be too, too very intentionally Try to create more of those kinds of coalitions, even at a global level. Like so, even seeing organizations that are devoted to social justice of various types coming together to form interconnected network. Because we’ve seen how incredibly useful and productive and inspiring that is among the networks that have already been created with e-giving Tuesday if you can imagine an idea being born in Taiwan and then being implemented in Tanzania within the same two weeks, fan, if we created more of those kinds of network, imagine how radically change and improve the sector. How do you encourage that that international part elaborations about your first question, you know, why does e-giving. Tuesday Nida Core leadership team? I think part of what we what we exist to do is to set a culture and a set of behavioral norms and expectations within the broader giving Tuesday community on a big part of those norms and expectations are that we are as generous within as we are without. So the philanthropic community is often far less still in profit, inside itself, right inside, inside the bubble and with with each other with our what should be our colleagues. Then we are out into the world. And so our network of global leaders, for example, are connected every day, every single day of the year, not just about giving Tuesday. They consider it an obligation to share good ideas and things that have worked with the others in that community, and they find joy and reward in seeing those ideas picked up by others. So there’s no sense of I’m going to do something that works, and then I’m going to afford that ideas so that it only works for me. There’s a sense of I want to see this popping up everywhere because it’s because it’s done so well, we just have a couple minutes left. What are you alluded to? Outdated best practices. Could you, uh, identify a couple of those? Take a couple of those off that you think we’re holding on to need mistakenly. Yeah, sure. And, you know, I’m sure people will be very annoyed with me, but, uh, so one would be the conflict of donor fatigue. I think what I’ve seen, you know, from my observation and from the analysis that we’ve done of the data that we have available to us, donor-centric has become more of an excuse then a fact within the sector. Right? So you don’t see the corporate world worrying that it’s selling too hard. You don’t see the corporate thing that they’re making. They’re asking people to buy and buy again and by again, Right. But you do see that same worry in the sector that we’re over asking that people give. But then they get tired of giving quite on the contrary, our our observation and our own analysis find much more than generous. People are generous. They give over and over again. And they gave in multiple ways. And so you know when you look at giving Tuesday 2017 right? What you saw was ah, fall. That was a series of basically terrible things happening. There was a Hurricane Maria. There was Hurricane Harvey, that was, you know, any number of a natural disasters and people were giving after each one of those. And then they gave again in record amounts on giving Tuesday. So we do see some disturbing trends of e-giving going down. But we do see also these really hopeful trends of generous people giving and giving in multiple ways. The second outdated idea I think that I would raise is this idea that people give either in one way or another. So the way that that worry is currently manifesting in the sector is Oh, my gosh, people are giving so much to their neighbours kapin surgery on an individual cat with a crowd funding site that they’re not going to give anymore to non-profits. That seems to be a kind of logical reasoning, but we don’t see it and we don’t find it in our own numbers. On the contrary, what we’ve found is that he who gives the surgery are more likely to get non-profits because they are generous people and generous people give and they give in multiple ways. So I think, you know, back to your reference to new power everything has changed about the way that people engaged about the way that people communicate and about the way that people care about causes. And we need to pay such close attention to those huge ground 12 and tidal shifts so that we know what’s actually happening and react accordingly rather than do things based on the way people communicated and connected and engage her causes back in the day. All right? Or should we have to leave it there? That’s perfect. Thank you so much. Uh, so welcome. Thank you. Pleasure and perfect timing. Asha. Caryn. See, People think this all happens, but this is all planned out. This show was produced, for God’s sake Current. She’s CEO e-giving Tuesday doing that full time. Starting July 1st, you’ll find her at Radio Free Russia and you’ll find giving Tuesday and all the resources and the tool kit everything she’s talking about at e-giving tuesday dot or GE And I love seeing female CEOs. So congratulations again. And Asha, Thank you. Very much look forward to having you back in October. Thanks, Tony. And I do buy. Wonderful. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re accountants, for God’s sake. You know what they do? Do you need one? Do you need help with your 9 90? Do you need a review of your books? And maybe it’s not a full audit? Um, you know who to talk to. It’s you goto wagner cps dot com to start, and then you talk to the partner. You eat each tomb who’s been a guest of times two or three on DH. He will tell you honestly whether brechner is appropriate for what your accounting needs are. So it started at Wagner cpas dot com. Now time for Tony’s take to summertime is planned. Giving planning time. I think this is an ideal time to give thought to either moving your game up in plan giving or um, for lots of small and midsize shops. It might be starting your plans giving program, which I’m always evangelizing and advocating for summertime is good time for planning. You can get your CEO tto take your proposal on the beach with her or read it on the plane. It’s a little slower time. I mean, it’s not dead. That was, I think that’s sort of outdated, you know, summertime dead time, but you have a little slower time. You can give thought to what you want to do, what you want to pitch to get your plan giving program started. And, of course, I advocate always starting with simple charitable bequests. The marketing and promotion of GIF ts by will so use summer time so you can rule out in the fall. Or maybe it’s a January rollout. But use this time to, ah, to advantage for planned e-giving planning and is more about that in my video, which is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony’s Take you. Now let’s talk about Candid Sam. We have a guest. They are Jacob Harold. He’s executive vice president of Candid, the Data Platform for Civil society. He was president and CEO of guide Star. Jacob has worked at the Hewlett Foundation, the Bridge Span Group, the Packard Foundation, Rainforest Action Network and Greenpeace Yusa. He’s at Jacob. See, Harold, I hope we find out with C. C. Is for and candid is that candid dot or GE and www dot candid dot or GE and also a way of Brad Smith. He’s the president of Candid. He was president of the Foundation Center. He’s been at the Oak Foundation in Geneva and the Ford Foundation. He’s on the board of the Tinker Foundation and the advisory board of the United Nations Trust Fund for Human Security. Gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Welcome back to both of you. Got to be here. Yeah. Great feedback. Thank you. Thank you. Brad. Uh, Harold Jay Jacobs. I’m sorry, Jacob. What’s the What’s the C for in your middle name? What’s your middle name? The C is for Christopher, my eldest uncle. Okay, Jacob. Christopher. Harold. But he’s just at Jacob. See Harold. Ah. All right. Um, I feel like we should start with Brad, the president of Candid. This all this all emerged in February of this year. Uh, what’s going on? A candid bread. Well, first of all, yes, it emerged as a 1st February 1st, but it’s been a decade in the making. The original conversations about this actually started in shortly after the recession in two thousand 9 2000 Can, uh, we started a series of deliberate conversations between the CEOs of both organizations at that time was Bob latto Huff from Guide Star, and we began to see a week collaborate together, commissioned a study into 2012 in-kind consultants to make the case for to bring the two organizations together at that time. The advice. That’s not so fast, but here’s what you can do to collaborate. We did that. We learned a lot about each other, establish a lot of trust among our teams and brought back to consultants in 2017 to take another look. This time they said, full speed ahead. Go for it. So 2018 we we barton long process involving both boards, uh, to do the pre work toe. Actually bring the two organizations together and we inked the deal on January 31st and launch Candid January February 1st on What? Why the name Candid? Yeah, that’s a lot of people ask that question. Which is good, right? I mean, that’s what the name should D’oh! Okay, we didn’t want to call the organization buy-in Foundation Center because, well, that would not be that wouldn’t that wouldn’t have been fair to guide Star That would not have been fairly crowdster. So exactly one. What the foundation center did already wasn’t really captured adequately by the name. GuideStar, in a sense, might not have been fair to foundation center, but would really drove. It wasn’t external professional branding process, that consultant. They did a survey of the staff and surveys stakeholders and the South overwhelmingly decided We need a new name going to leave the past behind and be an organization for the future. And we began to look around at all the names out there in philanthropy, and they’re all the centre for this center. For that, they’re all effective. They’re all sort of similar, and they started to throw at us one word names and the one they threw out there, which he sort of corrects our heads and candid. I was the one that ended up sticking for a lot of reasons. One, because it’s a really word that one was made in. The last words I write to it actually evokes the history of both organizations and our approach to information, which is to be candid about the real information about the sector to really show the sector as it is. So the people in the sector can can do good and make the world a good as it could be. Um, see, So Jacob what? What is the the advantage for non-profits? Our audience is small and midsize shops. How will they benefit from the new from candid? Well, you know, for the first year, you know, from the perspective of a small to midsize non-profit, not a latto current change. Both of the parent organizations programs are continuing, and we’re trying to strengthen them. But over the long term, we think that together we’re going to be able to serve the field as a hole in I’m totally new ways, and I’ll mention a couple. One is to provide a multidemensional view of the work of trying to create social good. What’s happened in the past. We’ve had these fragmented databases grant information over here, information about non-profits over their information about social indicators in 1/3 place, and we believe with databases and resource is and networks of the two parent organizations, GuideStar in Foundation Center. That candid can offer that full of you. Um and that’s gonna be important for small non-profits that don’t have the resource is to constantly hyre consultants to God and do a ton of research or don’t necessarily have the network’s toe have connections, too. The biggest foundations or, you know, the partners that might allow them to do more together. Um, and we also think that the set of resource is that the two organizations provided, um, can be presented in a way that’s just easier for non-profits access organized in a way that that really brings to the top. What’s most important? That’s one thing. The next thing is that by bringing the two organizations networks together, we think we can begin to weave together many of the different fragmented activities around the field. And for a small to medium sized non-profit, the most concrete example is filling out a proposal for foundation funding. But right now, if you were applying to 10 foundations, you’re probably filling out 10 proposals that are all different from each other but are actually asking a lot of the same questions on. And there’s a ton of waste in that process. And not only is their waist i’ma non-profit side, it makes it harder for foundation’s tto. Learn and compare with their peers. And when you look at the networks that Guide Star brings with some of the major technology platforms Google, Facebook, Amazon or major national donor advised funds. Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab. And then you look at the network that foundation center has with local partners all around the country and indeed, all around the world, hundreds of them where their actual training’s actual relationships. You have a combination of bricks and clicks of a cyber network and human network that we think it’s really powerful. And so we believe that together we’re going to be positioned to begin to establish some common systems of how information flows around the social sector, not making judgments about one organization versus another, but just creating some efficiency in how people learn and how they share their story as an organization. Will we be seeing new new new tools and databases and similar to the Teo well, the foundation directory or the 9 90 offerings that Guide Star has? Will What what’s What’s plan? So right now we’re going through a process of trying to really understand each other’s tools in a much deeper way. Um, we certainly both parent organizations knew the other organizations core tools. We didn’t know him from the inside. So we’re going through that process right now. All of that functionality needs to continue because the ability to find a foundation or I learned about a non-profits programmatic objectives is going to continue R sort of medium term opportunities begin to weave them together so that we can, in one interface, begin to see how these different types of information interact. Um, there are some brand new products that we’re looking at. I’ll give one example is give lists, which are lists of non-profits recommended by experts or that reflect the portfolio of giving of a given foundation. There a number of other ways to generate them. Um, and that’s a tool that we’re that we’re working on right now. But the truth is, right then we have a lot of separate tools. What’s most important is to create a user experience that’s easy for people, and that helps them do their jobs better. So that may mean overtime, just like in the this combination of two organizations that we built that we blend together some of those tools, but keep the core functionality just make it easier to use. Tony, I think it’s, you know, it’s important. Both organizations have you No one through the the Syrians of you, you tell them I work in foundations dunaj, murcott, GuideStar. And usually they know you were sort of one thing. Like I’d say, Oh, yeah, I get nine nineties there or, uh, foundations that are in your foundation director online. Individually, we do so much more than that. So it’s taking all that so Muchmore putting it together, focusing and making much more tighter building synergies between the existing products and services, then building some new ones on top of that. But most important is making it really easy and clear for the user howto access. Exactly what that non-profit Exactly what that foundation social entrepreneur individual donor needs to do what they want to do in the world. Yeah, Andi, I’m glad you mentioned individual donor. This is Guide Star has been a wonderful, important resource. I think 10,000,000 users last year, Jacob. So this is all coming together for individual donors, too. So it’s so it’s ah, holistic in that in that respect that it’s it’s all elements of the community as well as people who are supporting it. A cz well as institutions that are supporting it. Yeah, way talk. You know, we sort of all state non-profit sexually say philantech sector. I think we’re all struggling for exactly what you call the sector. I mean, sometimes I hear it candid. We’ve been, you know, talking about the social sector. Because in today’s world, you have non-profit. You have individual givers. You have social entrepreneurs. You have be corpse. You have corporate social mance ability. You have a mission or impact investing. You have a lot of different kinds of organizations and individuals. They’re using a lot of different mechanism to create good in the world. And that is something that we feel as a combined organization. We can capture and synthesize and put out a really powerful way. All right, we’re going to take We’re gonna take our last break standby text to give. They’re five part email. Many course dispels myths around mobile giving. Earlier, Asher was dispelling myths around fund-raising. These do not mobile. Giving these these gifts do not have to be small gift. They could be in the hundreds. They don’t need to go through the donors phone company. That’s one way of doing it, but you don’t have to do it that way. And phone companies typically put a cap on these gifts. That’s why the misconception that they have to be small double digit gifts to get the email. Many course from text to give you text. NPR November Papa Romeo to 444999 I want to do the live listener love and and there is a lot of it. We’ve just going to go down the list of alternating between abroad and domestic. Young San Young, San Korea, Korea On your haserot comes a ham Nida Live listener loved their Henderson, Nevada, Tampa, Florida New Bern, North Carolina. Special, of course. Teo New Bern. Close to where I live, Washington, DC Reid City, Michigan. San Francisco, California. Brighton, Massachusetts. And Hanoi, Vietnam. Sand Salvador, El Salvador. I think that’s new. San Salvador. Welcome. Live love to you, Palestine. We can’t see specific region. We just know there’s a listener in Palestine, New York, New York. We have multiple and Brooklyn New York. Where’s Bronx? Queens? Staten Island. They’re not checking in today. Uh, but that’s all right. We’ve got Manhattan and Brooklyn live love to each of our ah, live love goes out to each of our live listeners. And, of course, the podcast Pleasantries toe are over 13,000 listeners in small and midsize non-profits, where they’re an executive director, fundraiser boardmember consultant to non-profits. That’s sort of the declining proportion that you each bear to our audience. The pleasantries air with you. I’m glad that you’re listening on the on the time shift in the podcast when it fits into your schedule. So glad that you’re with us. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners. We have, Ah, we have but loads more time, actually. For for Candid with Jacob Christopher, Harold on Brad Smith, Bradley Case Smith Don’t be formal. Let’s see well, some of the materials from Promise that Candid will further increase transparency and collaboration. Nasha and I were just talking about collaboration around giving Tuesday. Brad, how is this? How is candid going toe foster collaboration among entities within within our community? Well, you know, if you start to think about it, the two most important things to know if you’re going to collaborate our first of all sort of the lay of the land who is doing what? Where let’s say you’re under certain charter schools, you’re interested in animal rescue. You’re sitting human rights, whatever you need to know, and for a specific geography where you wantto work, who’s already working there and where the resources are flowing. And then the second thing you want to know is, Well, what to those that are already working on this issue? Know about it. If you don’t know those two things, you’re you’re likely to put your money where you can see they’re not needed or it won’t be effective. And if you don’t really know what people have already learned, you’re basically gonna be recreating the wheel. So with the vast resource is that both organizations bring to the table of candid, we’re going to be able to actually for geography issues and causes. So you, who’s doing the work on the ground? The different flows of money that air coming metoo support that work where there’s probably more money than I should be going where there’s not enough money and when there’s no money at all, and also by by capturing the outcomes and output to these organizations through our profile program, the research and evaluations and case studies who are issue lab resource. We’re also going to be able to tell you what’s working and what’s not. So you could really hit the ground running and figure out who the best partners are for you work. You know, the lack of collaboration in our sector in our sector is what keeps it from being more than the sum of its parts of the world. Needed to be more than the sum of its parts. You can pull all this all this together breath. We can pull it together. We’re already putting together quite a bit of it, obviously. You know, for some, geography is more difficult than the other. And we have global ambitions. We already have a lot of global relationship, do a lot of global work. Obviously, no one’s ever going to be comprehensive for the entire world. We have a really good shot at being pretty close to a conference on a lot of this information in the US. Okay. Okay. Uh, and of course takes time to develop this with the expertise and the data. The data gathering are, um oh, and and I apologize. Uh, your Bradford Smith, not Bradley got that wrong for that that happens all the time, But most people just call me Brad. I know. Well, that’s what I’m doing. But you could’ve corrected me. I would have been offended. Redford Cat. Okay, um, now I see lots of offices. Um, are those the old those of the foundation Centre offices in New York? Williamsburg, Virginia, Washington, DC, San Francisco, etcetera. Those those foundation centre offices? No, they’re actually have both offices. We had overlap in way have overlap in Washington, D C. And in the Bay Area. And we’re consolidating those into single offices in both places. And the other locations are either foundation center locations or, in the case of Williamsburg, where guys start has the bulk of its tech and customer support step. Okay. Okay. Um, Jacob, I wouldn’t ask you last time you were on several years ago, it was talking about the the overhead myth letter that you and I, Ken Berger and Art Taylor had signed as a CEO’s of ah, Charity Navigator and the Better Business Bureau. Wise giving alliance. Do you feel like way overcome that now? Are we gotten past the the anxiety that was Experian that donors were experiencing about overhead and the overweighted focus that some donors were putting on overhead. Are we past that now? I wish I could say we were, um so I don’t think so. I do think, though, in the last few years we’ve made some real progress. At least the nature of the conversation I hear within the sector has completely transformed the assumptions that non-profit leaders are making the way that some of the data platforms talk about and share information. Even the way the journalists address these issues, I think has shifted. But I think we have a long way to go to really have that message get into the minds of donors we keep in mind just in the U. S. We’re talking about 100,000,000 people. Um and we have decades of having reinforced this this false idea that the administrative cost ratio was a proxy for the quality of Ah non-profit. So I’m hopeful, but I also recognize it’s gonna take a while and a few other things that are going to be necessary if we’re going to get to that future where donors are really paying attention to results in potential and not an inappropriate accounting ratio And the most important thing is for non-profits to proactively offer an alternative to say I don’t want to be held accountable by this accounting ratio. I want to be held accountable according to results against my mission. And I define that as X, y and Z, and I really does put the onus on non-profits to articulate whatever numbers they think makes sense for their strategy in their mission. Um, and this is something that I think that candid will be especially well positioned to facilitate. We’ve already had 71,000 non-profits achieved transparency seal on Guide Star, which is now part of the Candid Portfolio, with many, many thousands of those providing specific quantitative, programmatic metrics that we can focus on instead of looking at, um at the administrative cost ratio and then, increasingly, some of our platform partners. He’s, you know, big technology companies in Silicon Valley and elsewhere are really thinking about how they might be able to help distribute that information as well. So I see a path to a future where the overhead myth is truly dead. But I think we still have a ways to go. All right, Jacob. Any any bitterness that that Brad is the CEO on your the executive vice president. Any lingering bitterness there? I mean, of course. Of course not. You know, Brad and I have known each other for a decade on, and we we have a pretty good sense of our strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, I think we both think that the two of us can each play important leads in this new organization, but that you need to have a division of labor on DSO. Brad is the chief executive. He’s leading the organization, and my primary task is to really think through the long term vision and strategy for candidate. We’re calling it candid 2030. Um, we’re really trying to think about big technology trends, big social trends and how those match up with our current capabilities, what we need to build, what we could accomplish over the next decade. So a lot of my attention is on that. But on that long term, um, and that’s really only possible, because I can count on Brad as he, you know, make sure that candid as an institution is coming together and, you know, becoming the institution. It we think it could be. All right, Brad, we still have a couple minutes left together. What else you want us to know about? Candid. That I haven’t asked you. Well, first of all, just, you know, a few things we learned from this. I mean, I think there’s a lot of interest in organizations in the nonprofit sector emerging, combining, working together. There’s a sense sometimes that there’s too much duplication. What organization doesn’t know what the other one’s doing and a lot of people are sort of seeing this is is really kind of an inspirational story because first of all, the idea came from us. I was a thunder for years. Jake, You know, I worked at a Ford Foundation Jacob murcott Hewlett Foundation and we, we, you know, probably presided over our share of shotgun weddings right where we basically used grants to tell non-profits they needed to work together or submerged. And those seldom really are successful. I think one of the keys to success of this is inspiration really came from the two organizations. The second thing is the thinking of Jacob mentioned taking up have known each other in a lot of different roles. They could was my program officer right When I was foundation center, he came and he did his first White Glove inspection tour, a cz, the program officer from the Hewlett Foundation to see if we’re worthy of continued support. Now we’re working together in this relationship, but that really establishes a foundation. The third thing is, the we learned to work together is organizations are tech. Teams are marketing our sales different kinds of teams through specific confidence building projects. Before we decided latto actually combine the two and then the last is the role of incredibly strong, dedicated board that you asked the question about you know who the CEO is. All those things were negotiated early on by the board, Um, and they had to master an enormous amount of information about the both organizations in order to go through those negotiations and did a fantastic job. So there’s a whole back story to this. What I think has a lot to learn from in terms of how these things work in the future for the sector. I like the idea that you’re you’re walking the walk in terms of merger and collaboration, Jacob, we have we have about two minutes left. Anything you know, you’d like to like to add? You sure? You know, I think it’d be good to just talk about division of Labor for the field as a whole. Um, and you know that a meeting a few days ago with a number of partner organizations, and we’re we’re talking about the need to figure out where and when do we defer to each other? Um, and that there are lots of topics where candidates Not the expert, um, say board governance of non-profits. And we want to defer to our partners at board source on that, um, we may have something Teo bring, but we we recognize that they’re playing a role, and we want to support that. And similarly, we hope that the field will look at us and say when it comes to questions of organizing data, which often can be really boring. But it turns out a really important. We hope that the field will embrace, um, things like data standards that we propose and know that if we are suggesting that these air the 10 questions we need to ask about a particular topic that we put a lot of thought into figuring that out and that we hope others will adopt that language. And the flip side of that is that that puts the onus on candid to really be accountable to the field and to really listen to the field and to ensure that the voices of those who are impacted by our decisions are heard and those voices are folded into the decisions we’re making. So we really do hope that the field will help us succeed, Um, by adopting some of the standards and tools that we’re putting forward. Um, and we also hope that the field expresses what it needs so that we can listen to make sure that we make the best choices possible. Alright, Tony, your international listeners heard there’s quite a few out there We are. We’ll have more and more information of that kind would be talking about tonight, um, from around the world, Southeast Asia, South Asia, Africa, Europe, Latin America. We have strong partnerships. We’re going to develop more, and it’s an important part of the future because, you know, this is a a increasingly globalized world we live in and are the information we provide. You have to take account of that. All right, that’s Bradford Case Smith. He’s the president of Candid. Andi with him. Jake of Christopher Harold, executive vice president of Candid. You find Jacob at Jacob. See Harold and Candid is at candid dot or GE and www dot candid dot org’s Gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Alright, pleasure. Good luck and good luck. Okay. Next week, we’re gonna have more smart tech gift guests from 19 and t. C. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuant by Wagner SEPA is guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to 444 999 Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Label, which is a line producer, shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy. And this cool music is by Scott Stein You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great oppcoll. You’re listening to the Talking alternative network. Good. You are listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs Thie Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us. Right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking altum dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. No. Yeah. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration? and your consciousness. Um, Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant. And on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Awakening humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to the Talking alternative network duitz.

427: Flash Fundraising & DEI and Governance II – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2This week:

Flash Fundraising
Prepare. Launch. Engage. These are the essential elements for rapidly and successfully fundraising when breaking news intersects with your cause. Matt Scott from CauseMic talks us through.

DEI and Governance II
Gene Takagi and I wrap up last week’s thoughtful convo on diversity, equity and inclusion, with mechanics for your board: by-laws; recruiting; committees; decision making; oversight metrics; and more. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.”

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

426: DEI & Governance – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2This week:

DEI & Governance
Diversity, equity and inclusion run deeper than having folks of color on your board. Are you managing treatment, access and opportunity for non-white males? Gene Takagi and I talk through the issues, goals and methods. He’s our legal contributor and principal at NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

346: Persuading The Wealthy To Donate & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Ashley Whillans, assistant professor at Harvard Business School.

Also, Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

340: Healthcare Funding Options & Shared Leadership Options – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Chris Labbate, regional executive vice president at Marsh & McLennan Agency.

Also, Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

295: How We Got Here & New Overtime Rules – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Dr. Robert Penna, author of “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox.”

Also, Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and managing attorney of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO).

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

254: Online And At Risk? & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Diane Oates, assistant attorney general in the Consumer Protection Division of the Florida attorney general’s office and a former National Association of State Charities Officials (NASCO) board member.

And Gene Takagi, principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

199: Online And At Risk? & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Diane Oates, associate assistant attorney general in the Ohio AG’s Charitable Law Section and a National Association of State Charities Officials (NASCO) board member.

Gene Takagi, principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

113: End-Of-Year Campaign Coordination & Compensation Clarity – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

John Murphy, CEO of Zuri Group

Karen J. Collins, Technical Strategy Consultant of Zuri Group

Chris Coletta, social media coordinator for Conservation International

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host, thanks very much for being with me this week. Um, i’m dedicating my show this week. Tio my dear friend dave, who i know has been suffering from depression for many years. And i just learned this morning that he took his own life and it’s very sad. I’ve never dedicated a show to anyone, but this one is for dave in north carolina. He leaves ah, beautiful wife kathleen and their teenage son. And this show is for him this week. It’s going to be the end of your campaign coordination. John murphy is the ceo of zuri group. Karen collins is zuri groups technical strategy consultant and chris colletta, social media coordinator for conservation international. There were my guests that blackboards bb gun conference earlier this month. They have strategies to boost your end of your campaign with planning, branding, leadership and creativity. Now is the time it’s the fourth quarter and also compensation clarity how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for your executives? What happens of compensation is excessive what’s that automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t disclose benefits. Plus, we’re going to a board role play let’s. See who ends up chairing that meeting between the guests on take teo tony’s, take to the value of a quest on i give a hungry man pastries on the subway, and it got me thinking, are you on twitter while you’re listening? You can use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us right now, we’ll take a commercial. When we return, it’ll be directly into my bb con interview on campaign coordinate end of year campaign coordination. Please stay with me, it helps to feel you out there today, didn’t didn’t, didn’t dick tooting good ending? You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get in. E-giving duitz joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot, or or a h a n j dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Sametz durney welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty twelve were outside washington, d c at the gaylord convention center and my guests now are karen yeager collins, john murphy and chris colletta. Karen is technical strategy consultant for zuri group that actually seated next to karen is chris coletta he’s social media coordinator, conservation international and at the end is john murphy, ceo of group. Please. Chris, why don’t you acquaint listeners with what conservation international workers? Thanks. Yeah, conservation international is, as the name implies, an international non-profit conservation organisation, we work in about forty different countries. Our mission is to protect nature for the benefit of people human well being a sort of at the heart of what c i does so, you know, protecting forests because they help us by climate change or protecting our oceans because they give us fish and, you know, products and things of that nature. So that’s what it’s all about what’s the annual budget there roughly about hundred million dollars? And if i’m wrong on that, you know, guide star will slap me down, but i think that’s about right, but nobody listens to this show way. John john murphy, what lies would you like to tell about the missouri what’s, the work they’re xero groups in online technology agency focusing on non-profit success? We’ve been partners with blackbaud for five years and worked with primarily with their customers, helping them be successful and filling gaps in their organizational. Okay, karen, what your seminar topic for the three of you was taking your end of your campaign outside the box is very timely. We’re in getting of the fourth quarter what’s, the what’s, the first piece, but i see you have for building the end of your campaign. What we’re trying to promote is that a lot of people have their end of your campaign one more begging them to plan for their end of your campaign as opposed to coming up on november first and not actually having a plan to go out to the biggest part about it is making that plan the other thing we’re what should we want to start that? Well, when did when did you start your campaign planning way? Started our campaign plan for this year at weeks ago, and it is today, october. Once we’re taping, you started planning. Just just a few weeks ago. I mean, you know, probably the beginning of august is when we sort of sat down as a group in earnest and really went for it, you know, maybe even earlier would be optimal if you have the time. You know, not everyone does, but certainly, you know, by, you know, this time of year, hopefully you’re pretty well along. If not, you know it’s. Ok, there’s still time you could do last there’s definitely things that you could do now, and you’ll be okay. But it’s going to move on so that’s, what we’re trying to promote is that planning and to plan early and then the outside of the box thing is, what can you do, teo to make sure that people choose to donate to you because you’re going to be inundated, everybody has an end of your campaign. So how to think outside the box to get you noticed. And then ultimately to cultivate that donor to your organisation as opposed to all the other ones that air filling their end boxes or filling their social media, new speeds and things like that. Okay, john, beyond you have the plan. But how do we start? Get some of these outcomes that karen is talking about executing the plan? Obviously so if you have to plan and most organizations start their plan, hopefully after last year, so january february rolls around and you’re starting to look, then what you’re gonna do that holiday season? And then you start implementing the plan. It usually kicks off right in the beginning of november, so organizations that look at holiday fund-raising you’re looking pretty much november one through december thirty one so that it could include black friday type e mails all the way through urine tax giving. All right, so what are some of the elements of this plan since the planet is so important? John it’s, it’s really a planning calendar so you you really start with a planning calendar, and you look at your database and you’re looking at how you’re approaching all of your constituents so you addressing them with direct mail or you’re addressing them with email, address them with phone calls or some type of event for a holiday season and that calendar than usually across all the organization we’re seeing organizations taking there, direct marketing efforts and putting him under a single point of focus so that they don’t get multiple people overlapping and spending extra resource is and during the time okay, chris, what’s up. How is some of this playing out of conservation international? How are you doing some of the things that john well, john, especially john is talking no, you’ve already done your planning. How does this work? What? John’s talking about working at cia? Great. Well, certainly, you know, i sort of want to stress that, you know, and are talking talked a lot about what? See i did last year. We work, you know, intensely was very group, you know, on some various things, one of the first things that we did is we actually built a map where people could go online and, you know, sort of show their support for conservation and not just show their support, but actually say why conservation matters to them. And, you know, sort of that was i like that because was very on brand is we need a teacher, and you’re going to tell us why and by the way, when you do that, of course, we’re also going to get your name. Andrew email address and your interests because you’ve told us why you care about nature and your twitter handle if you decided to post it. So making my life is a social media coordinator really great, because now i can go and i can, you know, match some of those folks with their twitter handles personally thank them, get them on board and hopefully start a relationship that you know eventually if they get enough content from us if they get enough good stuff, wait until the relationship so they become a donor just let’s just pursue that altum or whether it has to do with end of your campaign or not building from i do twitter relationship you get it, you get a handle, you have the information that you just you just described about a person, their interests. How do you take that relationship beyond twitter? Well, so social media in general, i sort of think of it as you know, you’re getting someone to say that they’re interested in you, whether they follow you on twitter, you know, like you on facebook follow-up board on pinterest reno look at your photos on instagram, whatever you know, it’s sort of platform agnostic. Whatever it is, they’re there because they have signaled that interest. Falik so, you know, then you had to ask someone out on a date they signal their interests. You actually, you know, start sending things about your organization. Um, and hopefully if you are giving them relevant content, what they care about, not what you think they need to know, but what you no, that they care about, because you’ve done your research and you’ve done your hopefully, you know, either, you know, ask people what they care about. You done focus groups, you know, in some other way, you know, following sort of best practices research ends, they get interested, then you can ask them, hey, you know, have you signed up for cia’s newsletter? You know, some of them will sign that perseus knew slater six months, they’ll get six newsletters and some, you know, start to get campaign e mails and they get enough campaign e mails and they like what they hear, then they’re going to make a donation, it’s all about getting your foot in the door with a person and then, you know, treating them, you know, sort of. In a very human, you know, personal way. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time, join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio broke in the ivory tower. We’ll discuss what you’re born, you society, politics, business, it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry. Sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com karen, you want to say more about that? Not you nodding off a lot. You want to add to it? Absolutely, absolutely so what kristen has done with that math, it was called connect for conservation is what we did for that pretty campaign for them last year. Not only did they get their twitter handles, but they also got like he was saying to expand upon what the conservation connection was, there was options for health, there was options for climate, there was options for, you know, all different types of connections, and so what chris was able to do and what he was speaking on is now we know that not only they’re interested in conservation organisations, but they’re also interested specifically in climate, so therefore that was how chris was able to personally thank them on twitter, but then now we know that climate is their main concern, so the way that you cultivate and as chris a date that constituent and turned them into a donor is to listen to what that that attraction is to the organization and continue to hit on those spots so that then all of a sudden they realize that they’re not just somebody that has pockets that they could give two, but there’s somebody that you care about and you want to educate and therefore that makes them i want to better your organization and better your mission and that’s, what we’re trying to do here is not just continue bringing people in tow us, but to better our mission and to solve our mission and that’s how you do it through those touchpoint of social media, okay, and let’s, bring this back to the end of your campaign. What would we then do specifically with that person? We’ve given the information that we know? Absolutely so with the end of your campaign. What were stressing with that social media point is if you have somebody that you’re reaching out to via social media, you need to make sure that they know when you touch them and other organization or other outlets that they know that it’s for the same campaign, so the branding around that is really important. So if your hashtag in twitter is going to a certain level of detail than that needs to also follow through on facebook and the facebook brandy needs to follow the branding that you have in your e mails and your email, brandon needs to be on the landing page or the donate page that you have on your website. So we’re really trying to make sure people understand that it’s not just sending them to donate form. That’s been on your site for eleven months, it’s sending them to donate form that’s branded towards what your campaign is, regardless of whether it’s end of year or not, so that you can really bring them in and let them know that everything you’re doing is targeted towards something, whether it’s an end of your campaign or whether it’s a campaign to save the ocean, you know, so that’s, really where that planning comes in place is well, is that you make sure that all of your touchpoint are branded towards what you’re trying to do. John wants a lot more about the importance of brandon as it relates to the end of your campaigning or not just important co-branding friend of yours cause in general, or just, well, certainly toward fund-raising gold. I think when you brand mean, so if you’re branding this pacific campaign and then you bring your it’s really to attract a new face or in this case, it was more online people, right? So you’re trying to grow your list through these different types of brands and appealing to people where, what, what strikes them and what’s going to make them react to you so that you can then go on and foster that relationship going forward? Okay, so i think one of the things that conservation international did well last years, they thought of a brand that spoke their mission, so it was people need nature to thrive. And so that was the brand that that was underneath conservation international for their end of your campaign, which was so fantastic because it spoke their mission, but then it also gave them away toe brand the unique pieces that were connected to the end of your campaign to a smaller micro campaign that was still a part of the entire organizations goal and mission overall. And so they picked something, and then that theme carried through all of their channels so that people knew that when they were getting something that said people need nature to thrive when they hit the website. It also said people need nature to thrive, and they were able to kind of carry on that slogan throughout all channels so that they could whenever they had a touchpoint or whenever somebody interacted with conservation international, it’s stayed on that campaign and gave them a really fresh look without stepping away from their brand. John, it sounds to me like leadership is critical in this because we’re talking about talk about different departments working together exact about them were going to your heart striking to the heart of the mission. Yes, and you have me on that and leadership non-profits is sometimes very like a university where you have siloed leadership. Will you have different organizations that are responsible for certain budgets, and sometimes they don’t play nice with each other and you can see organizations where they do have overlapped, so have a unified front within an organization where there are looking too a goal going forward for this type of campaign is very important. So it’s gotta come from the top. Yeah, and that’s the way it using the right it’s just it’s the top saying here’s, your number, meet your number but it’s really usually two or three levels below the top where it actually gets implemented, where the plan actually gets put into place and that person is unifying the team to get the results, and so the top is sort of they want and number and when they don’t need it in there, you know, there’s things to pay, but you know that that is a struggle that we see quite often in non-profits so weii deserved you try to help also bringing that together, bringing fresh ideas, bringing the best practices that we’re seeing from the hundreds of clients that were working with that have the year and campaigns, and then helping them get through those hurdles and get through those home. Oppcoll yeah, i was just going to say that, you know, this sort of two conversations that were having, you know, about branding and about, you know, leadership in the case of conservation international, specifically last year’s you’re in campaign or sort of one of the same, um, you know, having a brand, a strong brand is important for any organization, whether you know is for-profit or non-profit or, you know, just a kid with a lemonade stand, you know, on the side of the street and so, you know, we really try and cultivate that twelve months out of the year, and people need nature to thrive is actually sort of cia’s tagline, you know, we sort of adopted it, and so when it came time to, you know, do a year and campaign, you don’t have to reinvent the wheel like we literally just made our tagline the theme of our year in campaign, and then we put it on everything because that’s, what we do and that’s what we believe and so, you know, this sort of leadership approved idea, you know, sort of the core see i’m messaging is what we call it, you know, internally, you just have to tweak it a little bit and, you know, use it to fund design things and, you know, make sure it sort of has a visually consistent identity and that you’re telling compelling stories and all of a sudden you have yourself a year and campaign and the thing that i like about that is that when if you do have that trouble of siloed if you do have a campaign that has a specific theme, even if your direct mail team is on a completely different side of the building or is, you know, not even in the same office building as your media team, then because you have that common theme, even if you are silent and you’re working through those blocks that you’re trying to break through, if you have that common theme that gets hit onto your direct mail piece or gets put onto your social media board or gets set up on your donation form all of a sudden least it looks upon appearance that you are branded and cohesive, even if, on the back end you’re working with suri group or working with somebody else. Teo, get that strategy together so that all of those silos are speaking to each other. Karen, what else should we be saying about bring it back to end of your campaigns that we haven’t talked about yet? One of the things that we’re trying to do so that the title of the talk is thinking outside the box so we’re trying to get people to look at what they’re doing now. And maybe do something a little creative, so we’re going to talk about a couple of organizations, especially conservation, international and all they did something unique that helped them stand apart from all of the other organizations that are going to be fighting for the same donor’s because you, you know, there’s only so many people out in the world, i know we have over seven billion, but of those you are going to be fighting with organizations, not just the same ones of your mission, but just all organizations for those donors and there’s only so many dollars out there, and you want to win as many as possible for you. So what can you do to be unique? And so we’re going to give some ideas, and then our hope during the session is to get people to brainstorm together so that maybe they leave the this session with that one piece that’s going to make them creative. Are there more ideas that we haven’t talked about yet that you plan to share tomorrow? Absolutely. Well, okay, well, who wants to wants to throw another one out? I’ll go ahead, since you know we’re going to be talking. About some of our stuff, you know, just one of the things that we did, everyone has a light box at the end of the year, you know, you get a gun organization’s website and it pops up and you know, it says either you donate or, you know, you know, take this, you know, activist direction latto light boxes, okay, yeah, yeah, sure, let’s back-up said so i don’t have to explain why rebecca, because on tony martignetti non-profit radio, we have drug in jail, i am in charge in jail. The youngest may be the youngest, i’m not sure, but wait to have anybody drug so quick, quick parole, if you’ll explain what a light boxes so i will exercise my get out of jail free card and say that a light box, if you, you know, let’s, think of it it’s, like, sort of a non annoying pop up if you go to a website, if you go to most non-profit websites, i suspect you’ll see some right now as they’re getting ready for the end of your campaign, you know, will pop up sort of, you know, transparently, you know, over the main page and it will have, you know, a message, you know, and that message might be donated. Might be please take this action, you know, like save the whales cia doesn’t really do save the well stuff. I don’t know, i said that, but it just sort of came to mind what all of whales and you connects out of it and just go to the main site, okay? So you’ll see a lot of that a year and, you know, because we’re trying to get folks attention right off, you know, we don’t want them coming to our website and, you know, doing other things, you want him paying attention. John has something that was going to say a light box is a very good year at strategy. I mean, as far as gathering email addresses and growing your list prior to your end, to give you new people to connect with as part of your plan, lightbox has been very successful. Okay? Okay. Good christmas. Yes. So i’ll be quick. So it’s, you know, sort of a china tree strategy using light box. What we did is, you know, we had designed for us a light box where it was sort of tiled photos of both people and, you know, biodiversity, species, animals, and they literally started disappearing when you came to our site, you know, it said, i believe ignore them and they’ll go away that is using sort of an old classic and just putting a little bit of a creative twist on it, and that was an extremely successful both, you know, acquisition and fund-raising tool for us because it’s so emotionally powerful over northern, they’ll go away and, you know, just little things like that is what we want to really stress, you know, what our panel is? It doesn’t have to necessarily be something crazy, you know, you don’t need but with a clown, you know, sort of running all over your fund-raising marketing who knows things just i need, you know, some clever ideas that air on brand that, you know, sort of expand on, you know, best practices, you know, that the industry that you know you’ll get to hear, you know, places like we begun, okay, john, you want to wrap up, we just have a minute or so because you have to you have to depart shortly, so i’ll give you i’ll give you the parting words around end of your campaign. I think if you don’t have an end of your campaign, you need one and you need to plan and execute it, and the creative strategies are are sort of our this sizzle to the steak, right? So you need to do the creative strategy to drive and grow your grow your campaign’s awareness and get people more excited. And in this case, there last year is very successful, and i think it tapped into a different audience and your standard non-profit donating audience and i think also serbia murder is part of your campaign is you don’t necessarily only have to ask for money, you can ask for people to volunteer and participate in your organization in other ways as well. That was john murphy he’s, ceo of zurich group on seated next to him is chris coletta, social media coordinator, conservation international and next to me is karen collins, technical strategy consultant for the jury group or thank all fever for being guests. Thanks very much. Real pleasure. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of pecan twenty twelve my thanks to everybody at b become earlier this month got live, listener love going out san francisco. I think i know who they are. You better be calling in shortly. Carpinteria, california, or carpinteria, california. Welcome, charleston, south carolina, and new bern, north carolina, which makes me think of my dear friend dave, also arlington, virginia. We got the coasts covered, west and east live, listener love out to all those folks. Right now. We take a break when we come back, time for tony’s, take two, and then our regular legal consultants, gene and emily, join us to talk about compensation. Clarity. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot, or or a h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. I got more live listener love going out. Tokyo, japan. Welcome. Welcome back took it was frequent listener welcome back. Tokyo tony’s take to my block this week is the value of a cross on on the subway. I gave a hungry man some a bag of pastries that i had bought for a client. Teo cut up and, you know, putting their kitchen for them tio tohave during the day. And when he asked me if i have anything that that he could eat, i looked at the bag and i realized that it would i mean a lot more to him than it would to my client. So i gave him the bag of pastries, and and he enjoyed it. And it was it was actually it was very touching. He afterwards, ah, he looked over his shoulder and gave me, gave me a thumbs up, and i gave him a a wink back and what? It reminded me of his how much i have and how much a tiny, tiny fraction of what i have would mean to so many people who have so much less than what i have and trying to be more conscious of. That because there is there’s no there’s abundance in my life and it’s easy to take it for granted. And that subway episode ahh brought me back. T recognizing how fortunate i am tryingto stay conscious of that more often and there’s a little more on that, my blogged the post is the value of a quash sewn on my block. Is that tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, the twelfth of october and the forty third show of the year. Right now we have jean takagi and emily chan on the line. We have them, don’t we both excellent. Jean is principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular blawg at non-profit law block, dot com and he’s at g tak gt a k on twitter. Emily chan is an attorney at d’oh and she’s, principal contributor to the non-profit lob log she’s the american bar association’s twenty twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer and you can follow emily at emily chan at emily c h a m a million gene welcome back. Hi, tony. Hi, tony. Good to have you back. We’re talking this month. About compensation because it seems to flow from what emily and i talked about just a couple of weeks ago. So, emily, why don’t you? Why don’t you lead us into this from from last month? Sure, so are lots. So he talked about the private benefit rules as a tea ad buy squeezed in a very big phrase there the preventable cruise up to the reasonable miss, and we’re going to get not this show, but basically we’re going to look at the penalty that the irs usually will impose when they find an inappropriate benefit going. Teo insider as we talked about last week, ok, so now we’re really looking at, i guess, practically speaking, the kind of penalties that organizations should be very knowledgeable about and also very wary of so that they could follow the best practices and make sure they’re protecting their organizations. All right, you were cutting out a little bit, emily, but we were able to fix the sound quality. Just say that. Say that. Say that very, very rich and wordy phrase again from from last month that will talk more about just say that again because you cut out a little. Bit there, rebuttable presumption of reasonableness. All right, we look forward to getting into that gene. What are the general guidelines for compensation for? And who are we talking about? Whose compensation are we talking about? And what of those general rules? Well, practically speaking, we’re talking about the compensation of the executives. So that would be the executive director or ceo or president and of the cfo or treasure the organization has compensated. Chief financial officer. Okay. And what are the rules generally, that just that it has to be fair and not excessive, that that’s practically the rule, tony. So it can’t be excessive and and the way we try to judge that is we try to look at what comparable organizations air paying. And so the big question is, what is a comparable organization and what is a comparable position to compare? You know who we want to pay another organization and what they’re paying. Let me throw something interesting. Least interesting, too. May our maybe you had illegal minds may not find it interesting, but but i do. Over here, um, you said it’s only for executives, but what i see in ah lot at colleges. And universities, the highest paid people there are often coaches. Sports coach is like a basketball football coach at at a big big, you know, big name program does does this this excessive compensation apply to them? Also are on ly to the executives of the organization that’s a great question, tony. Thank you. We’ll bring you back next month. Thank you. Drinking area. When we’re talking about big institutions like colleges and universities and healthcare systems and big non-profit hospital, the range of what we call disqualified persons or insiders definitely goes up. People have substantial influence over the organization or a particular segment of that organization. So football coaches will probably be drawn in into that equation when they have a huge influence on on the institution itself. Okay, there are just more general rule beside the what we call the intermediate sanction rule their excess benefit transaction rolls the night i go into jargon deal for that. Oh, my god. Yeah. All right. We’re gonna get to that stuff, parent and broader doctrines that you could get in trouble for as well. Okay. Broader than just the executive. So it’s so it’s those who can exercise ah. Lot of control over the organization, wherever they are, wherever they are in the hierarchy. That’s a good way to think of it. Okay, cool. That’s the late person. I’m gonna turn it on. You wouldn’t know it the way i talk. Okay, let’s. See, what is this intermediate sanction? Emily what intermediate? To what? What’s, the more extreme. So the more extreme penalty comes from the world. We have that last month with private benefit private kermit, we’re technically really the penalty is reputation of sabat on that thing’s pretty severe, especially benefit confirmed it was only a little bit more than what it should have been. So what the irs produced then was something that they called their intermediate sanctions. Also the excess benefit transaction will, which instead of replicating tax exempt status, so actually impose a penalty tax on that access benefits so it can be imposed both on the insider who benefited. And it usually starts with a twenty five percent penalty talks with the excess amount, but also boardmember should know that they can also be taxed of ten percent of the excess amount if they knowingly, i’m approved. Ok, knowingly mean let’s, just stick. With compensation at this point, let’s not let’s, not get too the xx of benefits. We’re just talking about direct compensation, cash, cash compensation. So so boardmember sze, who knowingly approved it meaning meaning they knew that it was excessive, right? So they have actual knowledge of the transaction. And when i use the term access benefit, i don’t mean the stuff on top of what say base salary, just an excess benefit itself, which could be a large compensation. Oh, the way that i used that term in the way that fused with the rules. So um and boardmember, who would be considered knowingly approving such a transaction, would be someone who knows the terms of the transaction. I’m also aware of the possibility that that transaction might be excessive in violation of this excess benefit. Transactional, i’m and also, you know, failing to make those reasonable tends to figure out whether it is actually excessive, but this goes back to the fiduciary duties of directors and making sure that there, meeting their duty of carrie’s, loves their duty of loyalty and making sure that they’re making informed decisions and that it is in the best interest of the organization. By not saying something. That’s excessive. Okay, and we have talked about those those duties, those fiduciary duties previously can can. These penalties that are levied against boardmember is, can they? Can they be paid by the organization? Generally, no. So this would actually be triggered under state law of there are provisions that have to do is indemnification, which is the organization’s ability to cover expenses that would come out of situations like this. They’re being stewed in your capacity as like an officer, a director of the organization on dh. Generally, that probably not going to be okay under state law, no matter what. Okay, okay. Let’s. See? Okay, gene let’s, let’s. Turn to you and let’s talk a little about the this the rebuttable presumption of reasonableness that emily mentioned before. What? What what’s that how does that play in here? So these procedures are useful wherever you’re no good for you know that you’re going to compensate one of these insiders amount that is not obviously way below market level, but you should go through these procedures just the general rule. Anyway, if you’re anywhere near paying market rate compensation and their three step, the first step is getting advance approval by the board of directors before you enter into that compensation transaction. Actor thie interested party if there’s uninterested director in there is going to be compensated, obtained from that boat and does not participate in that. Okay? And that would include a gn executive officer who’s who’s on the board. Because of that position, ex officio boardmember they should they should abstain as well if we’re talking about their compensation. Right. Okay, so you get the advance approval with with the abstention of the person who’s involved what it would else duitz step two is reliance on appropriate comparability data. So we’re looking at comparable salaries from similarly situated organizations for similar positions of similar work. So it’s all about getting the right comparable. It might be done through salary surveys, working with professionals that our salary experts in the non-profit mary-jo or maybe looking at form nine nineties, they’re different concerns about just taking other organizations form nine nineties to make sure that the right comparable but a lot of smaller organizations do it that way. What what are those? Well, before we go on, what are those concerns about using the nine? Ninety? Well, they might not reflect in the nine, ninety special payments and vesting of, like deferred compensation. So some organizations may look like they’re playing a really high salary, but those were just the result of past. Things that have been obligations that were paid in the reporting year. So you can’t really consider that a part of the the annual salary, for example, of that executive that showing on the nine, ninety that would not be good. Comparable. Okay, so, i mean, can a small charity avoid having to hyre ah, compensation expert to do these comparability surveys? What are the other ways? Or maybe there is no other way. Well, there are some compensation surveys that are out there for free as well. You confined things from charity navigator. And i believe guys start might have some some compensation norvig wolber free. You have to be careful, though, because sometimes the ranges of the size of the organization don’t play in your favor. So, you know, they may say, well, this is the average compensation for organizations with annual budget between one million and ten million. And depending upon where you fit in that structure, using the average may not be appropriate for your organization. Right? Okay. Okay. Um, and then add a couple more things to the comparability that it’s? Because you brought a small organization a general rule for organizations with less than one billion and gross receipts toe have at least three. Comparable. So it’s. Not necessarily this. You know why spread search for comparability data. But tow have three is generally considered reasonable. And another thing to consider is this really just giving you an idea of the band with a salary that’s out there, but it would be problematic. Front organizations just look based purely on numbers and decide. Ok, just because it’s it’s in the band with that that’s appropriate on that kind of goes back to your example of the football coaches where sometimes just so you that if you keep pushing the upper limit of the band when you just start to see these ranges leaves up and up and you really do need to look at the performance and the duties that are being like that? Yes. Okay, of course. The right, the person’s performance as well. Not just what other people are paying somebody similar in a similar organization. Okay, thank somebody. Thank you. Look at the geography. Because i know in manhattan in san francisco, where we are the average salary’s going to be much higher than somewhere in des moines, iowa. Yeah, okay. Okay. And there’s one more part to the rebuttable presumption. Can you can you explain that in about a minute? Gene? Yeah, the third part is just timely an adequate documentation of the board action. So that means really putting it down in the minutes on getting those minutes approved by the next board meeting. So you just want to make sure that you’ve documented it and if you’ve got comparable, attach the comparable to the minutes to prove that the board has actually looked at these before making that determination and approval. All right, now that we’ve explained the three prongs of the rebuttable presumption gene, please explain what the hell a rebuttable presumption is that’s great, what what it does is it shift the burden from your organization have to prove that the salary is reasonable and shift it to the irs to prove that it’s unreasonable, which the irs doesn’t want to do because it takes a lot of work. So if you just go through these procedures, you kind of put a big barrier to the irs to go after you brew for paying excessive amount because you say i’ve used the procedures that treasury regulations have approved. This is the way it should be done in the iris used to get it back off at that point, unless they think they have a really big fight. So then write if you follow these procedures, the compensation is presumed to be reasonable. But the irs has the option, although it it’s unlikely that it would exercise it to rebut that presumption and try to prove that the compensation was unreasonable. Is that right? If they want to take it to court if there were. Okay. Okay. Likely. Okay, but it’s presumed rash reasonable if you follow the three prongs that you laid out, correct. Okay, we’re going to take a break. And when we come back, jean and emily and i are going to a little role play exercise, we’re going to be the board of directors and we’re going to decide on somebody’s compensation. Um, i don’t know one of you two is going to chair the meeting, so you’re welcome over this break to figure out who that’s going to be and i’m going to be a boardmember and then the other person be boardmember too. So stay with us for that role play. Exercise don’t know. What’s going to happen. I hope you’ll stay with us. Talking. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Than you need. Aspire, athletic, consulting, stop second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney i got more live listener love laurel, maryland bend, oregon, and tokyo. Welcome to our second listener in tokyo. We got more tokyo listeners than we have oregon or south carolina or north carolina listeners maurin tokyo than, uh, most other states listening. Okay? Jean emily, we’re talking about compensation, compensation, clarity, and we’re going to our role play board board meeting now. Who’s the chair. I’m okay. Genes. The chair. Emily, you and i are board members or way just regular boardmember zor is one of our compensation under discussion or what? I think we’re about boardmember okay, but neither of us has our compensation under consideration. We removed that person’s removed. Okay. All right, go ahead. Jean. You’re gonna share the meeting. Okay, tony so right now we’re talking about approving the compensation of the candidate who is going to be our executive. Wait a minute. We didn’t approve. We didn’t prove last month’s meeting meeting minutes. What kind of what kind of foisting? Of ah, fake what? We didn’t approve last minutes less months. Meaning melkis consent agenda earlier, tunney and now we’re on the second part of our meeting. We’re okay. All right, go ahead. I’m taking my time, taking my fiduciary duty very seriously. I don’t care, loyalty and what’s my third fiduciary duty. Besides karen loyalty, a lot of people like this, they obedience obedience. Okay, well, i’m not all right. Well, i mean, i’m failing on three, but but i’m taking my first two very seriously. All right, go ahead. Emily. Emily obviously doesn’t care, but she’s like lester, let me see lackluster boardmember i hope your term is up soon. Emily all right, okay, so we’ve got an executive director that we need to hire, and this executive director is pushing us for a salary of one hundred thousand dollars and the possibility of bonuses of up to twenty thousand dollars for pizza. We’ve got a million bucks in our budget, and we’re not really sure whether approve this compensation or not. He looks like a great candidate, but there’s some other candidates out there as well. What do you think, tony? Should should we hire this person that the salary they’re asking for? Well, do we have any comparable data by organizations that are similar to ours? Go thin geographics and also annual budget on dh with that data also be comparable in terms of this person’s responsibilities. Emily, i think you were convicted. You right? Collecting this data? Yeah. So i researched some organizations that of similar type similar size and similar roles of executive directors. And i found three different data points. So, uh, one and these they’re all in our geographical area. One is eighty thousand one. Report ninety thousand and another one report. One hundred and ten thousand. Okay. We’re looking at one hundred thousand with the possibility of a twenty thousand dollar bonus. What do you think, tony? Um, i guess the bass sounds or so we have. Eighty ninety. First of all, i’m assuming that emily knows what she’s doing when she says that these things are similar. And i’m putting a lot of faith in her because i could be personally liable if this turns out to be excessive compensation. Um, only if you know that it’s excessive, sonny, but that’s. All right, that’s. Right. Ok. Raise a good point about the line. What do you need? A reliable source. Okay, well, your outstanding young lawyer. So i’ll assume that you’re on. You’re on the board. Very in doing this. Surveys what i brought. To the board meeting, and we’re going to attach them to the minutes of the okay, i like the i’d liketo like the base of one hundred. I’m not sure about the extra bonus of twenty family. What do you think about that extra bonus of twenty when the high of our comparable is only one ten? I don’t think it’s necessarily problematic if we have adequate justification for allowing that for example, if thiss opportunity with this executive director is probably going to pass us by, we are in a bind because we’re now doing an executive director succession that we didn’t anticipate and the organization’s going to be really hurt if we don’t find somebody who’s qualified and this is the most qualified person we found and we’re actually getting a really good deal for this person and it is discretionary, so it’s going to be up to the board at the end of the year and we have put a limit on it, you know, maybe we should evaluate again looking at our revenues and looking again at the comparability data whether twenty thousand is reasonable, but i’m not opposed to putting the opportunity of a bonus. Into the contract right now, that’s. A bunch of malarkey. I’m walking out of this meeting. Did you hear me? Did you? My footsteps and i just slammed the door closed, proposed i’ll ask to see if there’s a motion to approve a one hundred thousand dollars based salary with a possibility of a ten thousand dollar bonus. And we will actually look at the possibility of a further ten thousand dollar bonus if we hit certain revenue goals that might allow us to look at other comparable, do you think that’s reasonable? All right, i’ll come back into the meeting. All right? I’ll go along with that. We have to wrap up our meeting very quickly. Yes, i would approve that. Okay, so then we make the most of it. Tony wilbekin were approved way as we wrap this up, being the diligent boardmember right? And just a reminder that we need to have adequate documentation and our board minutes. So i’m going to write down the terms of the transaction. We approve the date it was approved, the board members that were present during the debate. Who voted. I’m not going to attack the comparability data on there and as well document the fact that we followed our conflict of interest policy and removed the executive director from the conversation that was emily chan she’s, a maternity at neo, the non-profit exempt organizations law group and our board chair was jean takagi he’s, the principal of neo. You’ll find them both blogging at non-profit law blogged, dot com, gene and emily, thank you very much. My pleasure. I hope you will be here next week because we’ll be talking about leadership with normal sanski he’s, a consultant and co editor of you and your non-profit that’s a book and he shares his advice on non-profit leadership, his premises. Everything starts with leadership also linked in news. Maria simple, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor, has two new offerings from linked in board connect to help you find the right people to serve on your board. Hopefully you get better board members and we just had and reasons to call, reveals touchpoint for making contact with the people you want to talk to have you joined are linked in group pakistan is in, i’m telling you, pakistan is a member. Are you in the lincoln group along with pakistan? Continue the conversations with our guests in the lincoln group i’m on twitter you can follow me the show’s hashtag is non-profit radio. I’m also on foursquare. We can connect any of those places. Check us out on facebook next week i will have a new way to wish you good luck the way performers do around the world have been doing this for weeks. So right now you’re still with last week, i’m wishing you a nail in your tire from estonia. No, comey, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules today’s show dedicated to my dear friend dave. Ironically, what i remember about him most is his laughter and his smile. I’m very sorry, dave, that you were suffering so much hope you were with me next week. Friday one to two p, m eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hyre durney durney i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get anything. Cubine hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Buy-in you’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. 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