442: Disrupt Unconscious Bias & Your Normal Is My Trigger – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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This week: 

Disrupt Unconscious Bias
Our panel encourages you to dive deep into your own biases and how they influence you and your brand. Then deconstruct and disrupt those you no longer want. They’re Joe Shaffner at International Center for Research on Women; Minal Bopaiah with Brevity & Wit; and Sarah Boison from Communities In Schools. (Recorded at 19NTC)

Your Normal Is My Trigger
Accept without blame that your normal is not everyone’s. This panel helps you recognize differences and manage across generations. They’re Barbara Grant with Crux Consulting Consortium and Eve Gourley from Food Lifeline. (Also recorded at 19NTC)

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xero Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of trick Otello, Sis, if you split hairs with me over whether you missed today’s show disrupt unconscious bias. Our panel encourages you to dive deep into your own biases and how they influence you and your brand, Then deconstruct and disrupt those you no longer want. They’re Joe Shoffner at International Centre for Research on Women Minal, BOPE IA with brevity and wit, and Sarah Boysen from communities in schools that was recorded at 1990 si. Then you’re normal is my trigger except without blame that you’re normal is not everyone’s. This panel helps you recognize differences and manage across generations. They’re Barbara Grant with Crux Consulting Consortium and Eva Corley from Food Lifeline that’s also recorded at 19 and TC Tony stay too pissed in Brussels, Responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuant by witness Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers regulars wetness cps dot com My goodness and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to 444999 I got that one already is enough. Here are Joe Shoffner, Middle back-up Aya and Sarah Boysand from 1990. Si. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990 Si. That’s the non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Oregon, Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. This interview, like all our 1990 si interviews, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising. Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are Joe Shoffner, Mental BOPE Aya and Sarah Boysen. Joe is senior communications specialist at the International Centre for Research on Women. Excuse me. Mental is principal consultant at brevity and wit, and Sarah is director of digital strategy for communities in schools. Welcome everyone. Thank you for your pleasure. Have you, uh, we’re talking about your seminar topic, which is disrupting unconscious bias as we grow our brand. Uh, let’s start down at the end. Sarah. What? Before we unpacked What? Unconscious biases? What What’s what’s the trouble? What are non-profits not getting right about growing their brand that you wish they would? Well, I would say a lot of non-profits are really struggling Teo identify where some of the problems are coming from. In terms of things like hiring a promotion in terms of the communications, I think a lot of organizations are starting to see that diversity isn’t something that just could be thrown around is a buzzword. But it’s something that they actually have to embody within the organizations, and from there it usually flows through the word. Okay, mental. You want to add to the headline on the leave? Um, yeah. I mean, I agree with everything. I think I’m sorry agree with everything, Sarah said. And I think in this day and age, brands do need to be very conscious of diversity and equity and inclusion if they want to have a brand that’s still relevant. I think thie millennial general generation is probably the most inclusive generation of it’s time. America is more diverse than it’s ever been. And if you want to appeal to all segments of the United States, if you want to be a global NGO, and in the end, the in the era of social media where a misstep can go viral, it’s really important that brands protect themselves by having an awareness of how unconscious bias could have affected their brand. Okay, Joe, you want to lead us in a swell, I think the one point, I would add is, is that unconscious bias within a browned is both individual and group. So in order to work as a team to tackle unconscious biases that come out in your brand, you have to alert look internally as an individual and as a team. Okay, let’s define unconscious bias. What do we mean? Sure, So they’re going to throw it to me since I have the degree in clinical psychology. And so I’m technically supposed to be able to do this. So it’s It’s easier with slides and with visuals, to be fair, if you are a picture of the brain. But I’m gonna I’m gonna do this via just speaking and see how this goes. Basically, within the human brain there, two systems of thought. There’s automatic thinking, and there’s deliberate thinking. Dahna condiment talks about this and his work thinking fast and slow. I prefer the words automatic and deliberate, because you can have delivered thinking that is fast as well. And unconscious bias happens because thie automatic thinking pathways, which air dictated by the limbic system, which contains the amygdala and the hippocampus. And those are areas that are really responsible for creating emotion and creating memories tend to fire together. And what that allows you to do is to make quick split second decision. So, for example, if you’re in a dark room and you you walk in and it looks like there’s a snake on the floor, you would recoil. Now, if you turn on the lights, you may find that that snake is actually a rope. And so you’ve based your data, your based your reaction on what your brain has perceived and made a split second decision that’s protected yourself. We’re talking about such decisions about people. Yeah, so if people in groups, yeah, so if you are not exposed to people of a certain race. But all of your data has been for movies that portray that raised negatively you may have if you meet somebody of that race, your initial reaction, maybe based on poor data at the same time, that automatic system can protect you. So I used to be a rape crisis counselor in a previous life, and a lot of women have said that they had the sense they had a flag that said maybe this guy was dangerous, but they didn’t want to be biased against them. And that’s not the time to just go against your bias is what we really talked about in our session was that if you want to mitigate biases, you have to start employing that more deliberate system of your brain. And bring your unconscious biases, too, your awareness, and really start to look at whether you’re basing those decisions on accurate data or not. If you’re a woman who’s in a position where you physically feel threatened, you need to get yourself out of that space first. But then reflect back as to whether your fear was based on something realistic or whether it was based on a past memory that was maybe inaccurate for that situation. Or worse, just something culturally that understood. Yeah, and grossly. It could be grossly and actually wrong, and but it it could be really accurate. And it it’s up to every individual to really do the work to explore where their biases air coming from and be able to respond from from their deliberate thinking from their from their executive functioning part of the rain. Rather then just that primal urge of their brain. Okay. And then Sarah on I may even be asking youto repeat what already said, But I’m trying to I’m processing this. And you all have been thinking about this for months. Relate this back now to brand, please. Yeah. So in terms of the brand, I mean one thing I can say that, at least in my organization, that community schools, what we’re doing is we’ve implemented diversity equity and inclusion work. So what we were doing is we’ve identified a taste of the basic level that there’s some work that we need to do organizationally, right? So we recognize that as we work with one point 6,000,000 students across the country, that each of us individually may, you know, we all hold biases, and it’s up to us to do that work to ensure that we’re able to better serve our students and better understand their circumstances. So what is happening at my organization is that our board of directors is actually mandated that we implement d I work across all of our affiliates across 26 states and D. C. So there’s work that’s being done from the top down and also from the bottom up. So what we’re doing as well is that we’re we’re going to our affiliates and we’ve actually way have affiliate representatives that are on a d. I planning team. And what they’re doing is they’re actually creating a tool kit, and they’re creating actual work flow for the entire organisation for us to follow in order for us to better serve the students in our community. So this sounds like I mean, even though I asked you about Bram, this sounds like mission. I mean, it goes right to it, really is more of your work and your what your mission is. Absolutely. I feel that if you can’t address a lot of the things that go on in terms of diversity equity inclusion, I almost feel like you really can’t as an organization served. You know, many of the populations that way Do you want to help? So d I needs to be identified as a core value of the organization? Absolutely. It’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of First Impressions had a combined strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. It’s all about donorsearch acquisition. It’s on the listener landing page. You want to make that terrific first impression so that your donors stay with you. They’re attracted to you and they stay retention as well as attraction. You’ll find it at Tony dahna. I’m a slash pursuing with a capital P for please. Now back to disrupt unconscious bias. I mean for a non-profit. Hold on. I want to find out what his communities in schools do. What’s the work? S o Right now we serve one point 6,000,000 students across the country. Essentially, how it’s structured is we play psycho. Nader’s within schools. So we work with school district and schools and state offices. We have sight coordinators in schools that helped afield. Resource is between the schools in the community to help the students and their families. Okay, pulling together resource is from local communities. You’re in 26 states. Yes, we’re 26 states in D. C. Okay. Community resource is for the benefit of students. Yes, So it is. It’s academic and community resource is so good example would be like if a student comes in and their and their families facing homelessness instead of the student putting that responsibility on the family and the student, the site coronated will help so one identify what some of their needs are and work with those in the school as well as some of the folks in the community to ensure that the students able to get the resources that they need so they could focus on school. We’re gonna know I was just going to put a finer point on Sarah’s comments and say that you know, for non-profits how you execute your mission is your brand. And so that’s why I like if there’s bias and how you’re executing your mission, that is a reflection of your brand reputation than in the space and goes back to, you know, how do you want to be known in your community in the country? Okay. Okay. Um, so from your session description, your dive deeper into our own biases on how they influence us on the point being made that we’re not only talking about organizationally, but also individually, Um, how did they influence us? I mean, it could be positive. My my thinking is that it’s I mean, I think, is that it’s mostly negative. But it could be positive, I don’t know. Or is it all negative? How did the job your turn? How does how does how did these biases influence us? What’s don’t go by me? What’s the consensus of the pattern? Sure. So I think one thing mental untouched on was the snake versus rope on DH. You know, applying that to Ah non-profit setting where it shows up is actually because there’s so many things going on at one time that you have to make decisions quickly so you don’t have a lot of time. It feels like to process and to think about these decisions that you’re making so to an extent, what we wanted to focus on them. The session was how to bring that out and discuss it in an honest way with those in your organization and also focus on who is in the room who is at the table discussing this because you do get caught in these cycles sometimes of having the same people making these decisions, whether it’s events, whether it’s what photos you’re choosing. Teo, display the Bowler hat brand. What project you’re taking on and a great way to mitigate that is bringing other people in from different backgrounds, different perspectives, different views and how you work together to come up with solutions of that. Create that change. Okay, the how and the who Let’s talk about some of the house. How do you bring it up? So one of the things that we’re working on at I c e w is the International Centre for Research on Women is an event checklist. So we’re aware that with all these quick decisions we’re making, sometimes you bypass the thought process and how to, uh, figure out how who’s on the panel for the events on DH? The checklist brings into mind, um, you know, who are you bringing in for the planning stage? I think that was the most important point that we came out with is who’d you bring in the room? And then you look at, um what photos? For the invitations you look at, you have considerations of who’s on the panel. So, for example, if you have a panel on talking about youth and there’s no one represented who is in the category of youth, right, so, uh, kind of bringing all those perspectives to the table. Okay, Sarah, anything you can add about who should be in this conversation? Yeah, I’d liketo piggyback on what Joe was talking about. So for me, like working in the use sector, what I’ve seen is a lot of times you have people who are making decisions that, uh, that that impact other people. And one of the things that I really want to challenge, not only just ourselves, but other non-profits do is to really allow the people that we’re serving to be the experts on their lives like, yes, we have the resources and the tools to maybe empower them, um, to shift course of change. But I really do feel that we’re doing ourselves a disservice by not bringing the people that we serve into the conversation to be a part of the solution. And that’s one of the things that including when their school age Absolutely that’s do-it-yourself. Absolutely. And I for us, I mean, there’s definitely a perception that young people aren’t ready for leadership right now, but many of them are already leaders in serving in their communities, and many of them are very well versed in what’s going on and some of the problems at their peers phase. So we’ve actually found it to be incredibly powerful toe bring in students early on in the process. When we’re doing the programs, when we’re doing projects and asking them, Hey, what is going on? And what do you feel would actually be a viable solution? And we actually just did a student in it. Evasion Challenge in Las Vegas and we had four students. Three of them were from Charlotte, and 11 was from Michigan. And they actually presented ideas that they worked with on a student team to help mitigate some of the issues that are happening at their school on. It was a great opportunity, one for adults to kind of just sit back and listen to these students. But it was also another opportunity where we were actually e-giving Students of resource is to be able to actually create change in their own neighborhood mental about how to raise your advice, how to raise this in in your organization. Yeah, it’s an interesting question because I think it’s sort of organically being raised in a lot of non-profits right now because, like I said, the younger generation of employees who are coming in are very aware of this and really wanted When you have an intergenerational office, Yeah, and and I think, really, when we’re talking about building diversity, equity inclusion when we’re talking about building inclusive cultures, what we’re talking about, his power dynamics. And so you really need to be able to study power to be successful in any diversity and inclusion initiative. And that means working with leadership. If leadership is not bought in that diversity and inclusion needs to be a core value of the organization, it is unfair to put the burden of change on people who have lesser power. And and that’s really critically important for organizations. Understand, once leadership is bought in, then it needs to be like any other operations or business unit where there is actual commitment in time and money and metrics for progress. How do you get this buy-in What? So much of the power is white and male. Yeah. Andi, let’s assume the leadership is because a lot of it is not all but a lot is Yeah. How do you How do you go to the CEO? The white male CEO and try to get this D I core value buy-in from? Yeah, the guy whose power he perceives is being threatened. Yeah, so not assumes. Powers xero some, but But ah, lot of guys do. Yeah. So how do you overcome that? Yeah, so that’s a big question. So I’m gonna take it in multiple ways. Got two and 1/2 minutes now we have more than yeah. No, that’s a really good question. And I think it gets to their multiple approaches. First of all, like somebody died. So I would not recommend somebody like me because I’m much better at strategy than I am as an executive coach or facilitator. I think it takes, um, Riel s o. I worked with a lot of diversity inclusion. Consultants are facilitators, and they’re exceptional at their ability to have a conversation at that level That doesn’t trigger people’s defensive isn’t Isn’t this almost essential? Tohave an outsider facility trained facilitator. Sarah, you’re shaking. Did you did you use a a facilitator? Yeah. So currently way Do bring in outside facility. Other conversations I’ve had with other guests. They’ve said that it’s almost essential because it’s doing conversation. Could break down. Yeah, rapidly. And you need you need sort of an outside there. But, I mean, I think of a diversity inclusion consultant almost like a family therapist, like their job is to give you that outside perspective and help you to see things in a new way on DH, then within, like, sort of having those conversations. There’s multiple things that you could speak to. Some people like to go the fear and avoided through, which is what I mentioned before about brand reputation. You know, if you want your organization to continue to be successful in the 21st century, you need to get on top of this. Bring a Brown. Once gave a talk at Were Human last year, where she said, If you are a leader who is not talking about diversity and inclusion, you will not be a leader in five years from now. And if you are going to talk about it, you were going to mess up and you were going to fall flat on your face and you were going to make mistakes. And you need to learn how to be an evolved enough leader to make public mistakes. And like rumbled through it and get through to the other side. So it takes a lot of it takes a very mature leader to be able to do this. The second part is to make what people like to call the business case, which is There’s research that shows that shone and this is from the for-profit sector. But companies that have diverse product teams have three times as many patents as companies that don’t. So the leveraging diversity will inevitably help your programs, your operations, your bottom line. And that’s really important to know, especially as we live in a more globalized world. I mean, I remember growing up is an Indian American. I didn’t think most of the television and most of the magazines were relevant to me. I didn’t buy any of that stuff. Nobody got my dollars because nobody was marketing to me on the third way is really too, you know, I think that there are enough white men like Joe, and you probably like you, Tony, who are you who are men of conscience? You know who who understand that you shouldn’t. There is a business case to be made, but you should just write this was the right thing to do for God’s. You shouldn’t always have to make the business case to do the right thing. And more importantly, like how, like, Why don’t you want to create a place where you wouldn’t recruit the best talent? You know, like Sara shared an experience today in our session. I’ve had a similar experience of being in organizations where we wanted to give our best. But the lack of an inclusive culture made us leave. And so you’re losing exceptional talent because of unconscious bias or because of your lack of commitment to including creating an inclusive culture. And so if you want to create the best products and services, if you want to have the best programs, if you want to have the greatest impact, this is is absolutely critical to all of those goals. And so diversity Inclusion isn’t something you do because it’s nice. It’s something you do because it’s mission critical and a strategic goal for every organization. I feel like the conversation has been raised to another level just within the past few years, and that may be the result of black lives matter now metoo. More recently, metoo No, because for so many years it was just It’s the right thing to do. But now, on DH, that was unavailing, obviously, to the white power structure, white male power structure, because things weren’t changing. So doing the right thing wasn’t sufficient a za motivation necessary but not sufficient. But now you know we’re so buy-in next level, we’re making the casing in different ways. That you can argue should have been, should not have been necessary. But Aziz said change wasn’t happening. So, you know, making the business case, for instance, Yeah, If you have to bring it, bring it to the bottom line and say you risked relevance, you risked losing talent. Well, I think it’s a communications professional, and other communications professionals here can speak to this. It’s important to speak to the values of your audience, and I think it’s it’s hubris on the part of people who actually care about these things to believe that the other person must think like you in order to be able to enact diversity inclusion initiative. I really think that Dee and I needs to take the same approach that truth campaign took to smoking. They created a multitude of ads, and they basically was like, We’re going to target everybody. We’re going to target everybody based on whatever they care about. And so when you would see the ad, maybe one out of 20 adds spoke to you, but then they got 20 different archetypes that they could speak to. So they weren’t saying, Oh, you have to care about this one thing in order for you to buy into this way of living. And I think diversity and inclusion needs to take that approach that different people are going to be motivated by day, different things. And we need to be able to speak to all of those motivations instead of sort of rank ordering and saying This motivation is better and more noble than this other motivation. I think that’s really judgmental, and it doesn’t move anything forward. Okay, Joe, we haven’t heard from you in a while. What you want to contribute? So, uh, we focused a lot of the session today on, uh, workplace, but I would extend that to say, particularly for white males. Um, this is a conversation that I think needs to be had in the home. A school on the street because of some of the issues that we’re facing. It worked. We bring in tow work. It’s not just something that comes up at work. So it’s something where to have a coffee with someone and and just try to shift perspective a little bit. And there’s in the us in particular is a lot of this attitude of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Um, which, yes, that’s worked for some. But there are others who don’t start out at the same level where there is race, gender, economic way, same level. But you don’t have the same opportunities, right? Don’t have. You don’t have the power. Yeah, So it I think by avoiding, um, even reflecting on that, that’s where the biases come in. And that’s also where we continue doing the same thing, Um, at work, at home. So it’s like, how do we create that shift? And part of that? Is this through honest, open communication? Ok, uh, we still have, uh, another two minutes or so. Two and 1/2 minutes. What else have you done your panel yet? Yes, you have. Okay, So what else you had 75 minutes with in front of an audience. What else did you talk about? That we didn’t talk about here or more detail that we didn’t go into enough. We got a couple of bones talk about white privilege of fragility. Sametz. Well, actually, actually want anything I want to bring up was we had a bingo card which included some of these terms, but we did have, ah, exercise on privilege. So essentially, we made some statements. Uh, and people would raise their hand if they felt that reflected on them on DH. Keep their hand down if they felt like it didn’t which there’s been a breach has such a sure such as? I have no college student loans. There were some that raised their hand, Some that didn’t, um that one’s a little easier to answer than others. Like I’ve never been bullied. Some might think, Uh, yes, I’ve kind of been believed, but it hasn’t been to the level of what I think. Other people have been bullied. So what we focused on through that was that it’s a little more complex. It’s not binary either, or sometimes the decisions made in those moments, um, are more complicated. And I think That’s kind of what we want to focus on here. Um, so relate this back to white supremacy. Yeah, sure. Um so white supremacy, white power, White power, White privilege. Okay. Yeah, No. So a lot of, for the most part, this is just to reflect on the fact that the privileges are there. I think that’s Ah, it seems simple, but for a lot of there are a lot of people who will not associate themselves with privilege. Or they’ll say, But I grew up in a poor area without reflecting on the fact that maybe someone else of a different skin color or different gender also did. But it’s staggered. So that and this white powers, you say, white privilege. It’s structural. It’s ingrained in our systems and our institutions, um, and and too tow have those conversations. And to create change, we really have to be reflective and admit that they exist. Okay, way. Have another minute left. So let’s, uh let’s give the wrap up sorrow that I asked you to start with you. Have you mind wrapping up what you want to leave people with? I just really want to challenge people to do the hard work of really looking within themselves to identify any bias is that they may have on and just know that it’s a lifelong commitment. I think a lot of people go into it thinking like, Oh, I’m going to do, you know, for three hour sessions this year and I’m going to be woke check, Yeah, and you know, I definitely want to challenge people, not to feel the pressure to be quote unquote woke. I feel like that’s a word a lot of people have been throwing around recently, and I just think that people need to just do the work consistently in order to be able to change their perspective on different peoples in places and things. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much for all three of you. Each of you think they are. Joe Schoffner, senior communications specialist at the International Centre for Research on Women. Manabu piela, principal consultant at Brevity and Wit, and Sarah Boysen, director of digital strategy for communications for communities in schools. Thank you again. Thank you. Thanks to you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 sea as non-profit technology conference in Portland, Oregon. This interview. Like all our 1990 si interviews brought to you by, or partners that ActBlue free fund-raising tools to help non-profits making an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break When you see piela CPAs, it’s in the title. You know what they do? Do you need one? Do you need a new one? If you think you might need help or your tinkering around the edges of maybe changing accountants, check them out. You goto weinger cps dot com. Do your due diligence there, of course, and then pick up the phone. Talk to the partner. Yet each tomb who you know because he’s been on the show twice already and he’s going to be coming back. He’s not high pressure. He’ll explain whether they can help you. All right, that’s the process. Get started at Wagner’s cps dot com. Now time for Tony’s Take two. My video is pissed in Brussels. Yes, uh, manic in piss, and that is what it’s called. I’m not being crude, so if you turned off well, if you were to turn off the volume or shut me down, then there’s no point in me saying Don’t because you’ve already done it. But for those of you were still here, like on the fence. Don’t be offended, because that is what it’s called. There’s a statue in Brussels, Belgium, called manic in piss. Okay, maybe it’s peace in Belgium on these manic and peace, but it’s spelled like this. So, um yeah, so I got I got assaulted. I got assaulted by the little statue. Um, he pissed on me and you can see it. You can see it on the video at tony martignetti dot com and then go to Brussels, Belgium, and get some for yourself. Just keep your eyes in your mouth close. That’s all on DH, that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s do the live. Listen, 11 the, uh And you know what comes after that? So the live love goes out. Thank you for listening. I’m grateful. The live love to those of you listening at, uh, Friday 1 p.m. Eastern time. And whatever time zone you might be in, the love goes out to you and the podcast pleasantries My gratitude to our over 13,000 podcast listeners. Sometimes I wonder why you stay with with all the I don’t know the talking about piss and everything else. But you have you have you still here? So the pleasantries go to you and you should stay. Don’t Don’t wonder why Leave? Leave the wondering and the and the worrying to me about that you just stick around Ana. Now here is from 19 NTC. Your normal is my trigger. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 1990 Si. That’s the non-profit Technology Conference 2019. We are in Portland, Oregon, at the convention Center. This interview, like all our 1990 si interviews, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests now our Barbara Grant. She is CEO of Crux Consulting Consortium sitting next to me and even Gourlay. She’s director of information systems at Food Lifeline Barbara Evey kruckel. Thank you. Thanks for having a pleasure. Pleasure. Your topic is a little provocative Little bit, er when you’re normal is my trigger unpacking multiple generations and white privilege. Let’s start with you. What? Uh what do we need to know? Give us Give us the headline in the lead. Well, what’s going on here? You fundamentally, you have a normal that you view the world of particular way. That is your way of viewing the world. And you think that’s the real way. That’s the truth of the world on you interact with it like it’s absolute, but you don’t appreciate. You do sort of live your life like other people’s normals of the same as your normal. And that causes real problems for people, particularly in regards to white, privileged white. People think that they’re the normal and they don’t attend to the concerns of people of color, and people of color lose out, significantly weaken all these different measures of public health will show that. But it’s very hard for people to see why their behavior is white people houses impact on people of color, and we’re going to delve into the dynamics, underlie the and really give people some access to engaging with how that their behavior has these negative impacts on the world. Okay, what what are some of these negative impacts? Barber? Well, I think that first we start with generations. And so what we’re trying to look at is that if my definition of What is normal is not your definition of what is normal. So, for example, what should be on a recruitment form like if you’re filling out a job application, should you ask people for their gender or not? So some generations would think? Of course, it’s a recruitment Forman application. You put your gender male, female, other generations would think, Why are you assuming my gender? Other people, other generations might think I don’t want to work here because clearly you’re more interested in my gender than my qualifications for the job. And so part of what we’re looking at is it’s not about one thing being bad or good. It’s about looking just to understand. The fundamentals, like Evil is saying, is that there are different definitions of normal and they shape your judgments and the shape your behaviour. And how can we look at that together? In-kind oven on blaming context because too often when we try to talk across differences, what we find is that people are talking, blaming like I think this is normal. You think that’s normal and I’m judging you is wrong. Uh, without trying to make excuse, though. But if we’re talking about across the generations. It’s what those of us and the older generations were brought up with Your butt s o to not make its use something but we can relearn wear depends on which people you’re tryingto hyre were trainable were trainable. Well, I think I just take it from a perspective of utilization based perspective. If you’re trying to hire people who aren’t exactly like you, it might be useful to understand what they think is normal because those are the people you’re trying to hyre those people are trying to work with. It’s not like what you think is wrong or how you were brought up is wrong. It’s just now there are five generations in the workplace, maybe for the first time in human history, because we’re all living longer and we’re not leaving. And we’re actually caring what younger kids kick would think. And another traditions. Other generations, you know, people who are younger really haven’t been accorded a voice, and people who are older either died sooner or left the workplace. So now we have five generations, all of which have been shaped by different understandings of what’s normal and so part of what we’re trying to do is to say these air who were working with on purpose. And so how do we create a workplace that is inclusive and gets the job done that we want? E. What is this normal that we’re talking about? If everyone’s normal is different or their cohorts that so you just coalesce around sort of more or less together. But But as an individual, what’s what goes into my normal? What goes into your normal what? What’s the normal? What are we talking about? Yeah, because you don’t you don’t think about it. It’s like you wake up in the morning and sort of put on your normal right. What is it? The world just seems to be to you a particular way. And the way that it seems to you isn’t necessarily the same way it seems. Other people want me to think about it. I mean, I don’t get too conceptual, but it’s an interesting talking to delve into right, like the context of your world and the content of your world are different things. If you’re a man, you have a view of the world in an expectation of what public safety feels like So it’s you know, too. Am your your friend’s house. You don’t call for a cab. Gonna walk home like it’s an hour. Like as a man, you have a view of whether that’s safe or not, and you’ll have your own opinion of it. If you’re a woman, you’ll have a very different view of that. Now there’s no Is there a reality or whether it is or isn’t safe to walk home? No, there’s no actual like, objective measure of what safety looks like, But I’m a lot of people don’t really understand it. Don’t appreciate that. They do have these. These contexts they view the world through. When you actually start attending to them, you realize that it’s not just like a couple of things. You have this entire world view on this entire perspective that informs everything about your existence, and you’ve probably never thought about it. Once you start thinking, you start finding things that you wouldn’t choose to believe. You know you you have come to believe that based upon experiences that you’ve had and lessons that you’ve learned and you pick up these ideas and you know it’s really good work to do that reflection figured out because it’s not just about race. I mean, it certainly has an impact on race, but it can affect your relationships that can affect your success in business. Your coworkers, like everything that you do in you, your life is in form. But this context and doing the work of digging into it’s really important. We like to look at it from levels in your workplace. In your non-profit. There are things that people you’re trying to attract, people you’re trying to retain professional development, how fast people are promoted, what’s appropriate use of technology in the workplace, What’s appropriate professional behavior, what’s appropriate communication, all of these things of what is appropriate in the workplace, these air. What you think is normal is common sense, and so, but that normal common sense is different, according to these different five generations. And we think it’s pretty funny because we catch ourselves all the time saying, Oh, I guess I thought I just what I thought right? But But it’s not funny when it happens in a space where the dominant normal gets to decide. Like I might think, it’s funny that you think that, but if you are in the dominant position, then that’s what it is. It’s gonna happen. So part of what we try to do is to just open up the conversation so that its future oriented decisions, instead of how we’ve always done it in the past. I had a panel last year at NTC, and, uh, it was related to this topic, and the subject of job descriptions came up, and it was the use of the word professional. You know, a professional makes makes a professional appearance. Yeah, well, that exclude, I think the guests. It was a panel of, I think there were three think there were three. And it was, I think, was Raja Agarwal on everything. He was sitting next to me and he said, So that excludes everybody with dreadlocks in a white privilege world. Those are not professional. So does that exclude everybody who’s black because their hair is different and you know, so that’s where that dominant. But the perspective is different than a note. A new miracle perspective. Yeah, but just to use the word professional, I mean, it’s an office. I do want people to be professional, but then, you know, professional appearance. You know that’s different than comporting yourself as a professional. You don’t even need to say professional. In the job description, you can consult season, think out of an interview. So it’s fun when you start scratching away at that word like professional like, What does it mean to be profession? Doesn’t mean, like no skilled at using office communication tools for understanding. I was 14 XL, but doesn’t mean where’s a shirt and tie e mean it does mean those things, but unless you actually do the work of unpacking it, you don’t know what you mean. And it could be really detrimental to people like my own personal experience. I’m originally from Ireland. Dahna immigrated United States and was about 20 because I immigrated. I interrupted my college experience, and I never actually finished college. But a lot of job descriptions will say, you know, college degree required, and that’s that’s an assumption that people make about, like hiring that that’s a normal for people that if you’ve been to college, you’re there somehow qualified or somehow more capable of doing a particular job. Now I like, almost finished going. I was like one semester away from getting done and I have no regrets about coming to United States like that was absolutely the best decision I made. It was totally worth giving up, called my degree for. But you just got to really take the time to really investigate what you really mean by what you say because it has an impact on people and those impacts show and they’re often invisible. I think if you talk to people, United States, no one’s ever well, very few people will actually claim to be racist or will endorse racist perspectives. Or, you know, it’s very, very rare to find someone who’ll do it. If we do find them, we isolate them pretty quickly. But racism’s vivid and clear it. She was really clearly in the statistics. So how does it keep happening, like word of these, these negative influences come from. You have to be able to look beyond the surface in order to see that, and that’s where this but this work is about. I think what’s really important about the generations conversation, why we’re using this as a vehicle for talking about privileges, that this is a fun and accessible, an easy way to get into this conversation is not anywhere near is. Confronting is talking about race. It can be challenging, but generations it’s it’s a It’s a fun conversation right on dure. Your topic is generations and white privilege. So let’s overlay the white privilege to this. But now we’re at a disadvantage. There’s three white folks talking about white privilege. Well, one of the things we found is that oftentimes one of the dominant mentalities is that people of color should help us talk about white privilege because we don’t know how, which is once again, kind of layering a burden there. So part of one of the thing you just said is why people we don’t ever learn to say the word white like that’s because it was normal. Like if you look, if you read a book, a novel, the characters air never described by the color of their skin unless it’s not white because, like so you don’t say, he walked into the station, his skin was pasty, like the underside of a dead halibut. You know instead, But you would say like this. He walked in, She walked in, they sat down. He set down his skin, was dark, like cinnamon ice cream or something like it’s only described if it’s not white. So these are the kinds of things that that why people have to be able to start talking about. And so but no one ever talks about generational differences too much, either. So we tried it. We call it Training wheels is like if if I can try to talk to you across a different generation if I’ve had people come up. I was working with the A different client group last year and someone came up and said, You know, now I understand how to talk to my son, who’s been living in my basement, and I feel like we’ve never been able to talk to each other like I get it. Our definitions of normal are different. You know, there’s a There’s a lot of desire as what we call a part of a week circle. So, like we are all different generations. But we’re part of a family or we’re part of one circle we already identify as though we were just different, whereas across other things, like race or class or other dominant privileges way don’t see ourselves as a wee we see is us and those people. And so part of what we’re trying to do is even within our circle of who we already think is us. How do we talk across differences well and respectfully. And then how do we use that experience to try to talk across these bigger differences that are a little bit more charged? What kind of worker is the two of you doing together? You’re doing work for food, Lifeline Barbara. Yes. So I’m a consultant. I worked with international NGOs, NGOs, local domestic non-profits, and one of my clients for many years has been food lifeline, which is where I met Yves. And so there was even even if it’s even, that’s right. And so so and our work together is been issues around, trying to change a culture within their non-profit and also doing a move and trying to figure out how we do that move in a more inclusive way to this glorious, gorgeous new hunger solution center that they’ve just taken off the ground. And so a lot of my work has been with this system, and so we met, and here we are. Okay, um, and how did this topic Come, Teo, how each of you get drawn to this topic in the concerns. So one of things I’ve been studying since I do work with many non-profits and associations across the country has been this kind of she drops out in there. This this as I worked with years of all stripes and sizes and you’ll find me at six for 62 What I’ve found is that for the last 6 62 5 to 10 years, people have been very anxious about all these generations in the workplace and also about the great retirement fear that all these people are going to retire. We’re gonna have a leadership gap. And so I started studying what that meant to have a generation retire and what the composition was of the domestic and international non-profit in particular Workforce were all these leaders about to leave what was gonna happen with succession planning and became very interesting to see that they didn’t leave and then the next generation. So those easters air, now 26 at the top. And so now there are people in 1/5 generation. So everyone was all like, oh, skies falling is going to be four generations. And then these people are going to leave. They didn’t leave and these guys came. And so it’s a phenomenon. Now that is very interesting. And people are trying to figure out who are you trying to hyre? And it’s a very different mindset of tryingto hyre now when you’re trying to hyre outside of an assumed normal of a generation, and that could be across lots of industries and sectors. So I was drawn to it by my clients who were concerned and also, by finding it very like. It’s an interesting inflection point in our history as a sector time for our last break. Its text e-giving They have the five part email, many course to dispel the myths around mobile giving. You get one part each day it’s over five days soon as you sign up, they start coming. And then four days, Uh, we say four days hence, yeah, in four days hence, right that the right, Yeah, Hence his post post fact, post facto four days. Expos facto of the of the sign up, you get the remaining courses one a day. It’s an average of one per day. One is also the mode and one is also the median as well as the average. That’s what you get per day after you sign up for the course. What you do at by texting npr to 444999 And we’ve got butt loads. More time for your normal is my trigger. You baby. How about you? Barbara knows me from Food Lifeline and in my work, I’m the director of information systems for Food Lifeline. And what you do in that role is not only manage the system, but also the Iast systems. All the databases that base are works. I’m involved in every aspect of the organizations activity, right from our entry level staff and our new stuff right up to the executive team and then the CEO. So I cross the generations. Anyway, when we started talking about doing this the session together, some of the real issues that I have in my work came up in our discussions, and we really got into them and use this methodology to address those concerns. And we actually cover some of this in the presentation. And it became not just an opportunity to talk about what we love, what we what we care about, but actually to develop food lifelines business as well. So it’s really, really become really engaged in. It’s really become part of our work. Um, okay, you say, in your description, used the framework of generational understanding and predictable triggers to have deeper conversations. I paraphrased a little bit. But what is the general generational understanding of predictable triggers? Is that first of all, is that one that one one of the processors, too? So one of the things that we’ve found is that there are some predictable triggers that will show up across generations. For example, if we say Oh, you know, some of those people are so entitled there’s a whole set of people in the room that will not and laugh and say, I know you’re talking about in a whole other set of people in the room who will feel like the mute button just happened and disrespected and turned off, or one of our other favorites is when someone says, Well, this is the way we’ve done it successfully for the past 10 years and they think that. And so I have now sealed the point and half of the other people in the room think, and so it must be a relevant. And so some of the things that I feel like the most normal thing in the world for you to say someone else receives, like like you just said something completely different. There’s a very real world challenge that I have with this with regard to training and you software. So if I had, like, a new tool like any of the vendors here at this conference, if I had their suffering, if I take this out to the staff, it’s okay. We got this great new tool. It’s going to be awesome. It’s gonna make a big difference in your work. There’s two kinds of responses I’m going to get from older people, you know, boomers and maybe Gen Xers. You’re going to say, Okay, we’re going to training, which means we have to hire a trainer. We’re gonna have a training day and a reason to calm. We’re going for coffee and bagels and everyone going to sit in chairs and listen to the training, and then we’ll go through it. When we’re done, you’re going to find her and you take a binder to death you sent in your desk and okay, you’re trained. Now go and use the software, which means no one’s trained and they just sort of sit there and stare at the screen now. But when I when I try to train people who are younger, like millennials and sisters, it’s an entirely different model on approach. They don’t need that. What they need is give me a can account. Let me access the sulfur and sit down with me for like an hour and show me the basics and then go away would be available. I want access to the knowledge base online. I want to able to watch videos on the Web site. A chat room for users is great, and it’s an entirely different model of training. And my real challenge with that is that in order to train those easters in the millennials how to use the software, which is really what I need to do because they’re the ones that are gonna be using it anyway, I have to convince the leadership that it’s okay and that it’s safe to do that. So we do the training day, we forget about it, and we trained this Easter’s. It’s that there’s a lot of different generational challenges in the workplace that we have to go. Um, but I feel like way diving into the depths of this. I mean, I feel like we’re talking around it a little bit. Are we? Are we getting to the meat of the real issues here? Well, we’re getting to the middle of a generational issue. Just be circum superficial. So one of the most important things Tony is that is just the fundamental except acceptance that you might have a different normal, that it might guide your worldview like Eve’s even example there was and then to say, Okay, so then what? What do I do if my normal is this other thing? But once you fundamentally accepted that it’s different than thinking. Well, those people are idiots, and they should just do this thing or everybody knows, or common sense. People leave that stuff behind, and then they approach the issue like, Well, then how do you do it across five generations? And that’s the attitude where we can then begin to talk about privilege and dominant privilege, because many times, if people say well, you know you’re white So therefore you’ve inherited all of the benefits of being white, and then a person of color has not. There’s all kinds of stuff that goes off in people’s minds like, Well, I’m not racist and it’s not my fault. And I worked as hard as the next person, and it’s all defensive, defensive, defensive. It’s not curious, like if we go back to the other part where we have with generations, where people are like Okay, people have different definitions of normal, what do we do next? That’s curious. That’s like saying we’re we and we have to do something forward. But when we get into issues that are more charged and that are more layered with blame and oppression and dominance, then people generally defend and any kind of diversity training or an attempt to do that generally ends up with people often feeling worse than they felt before and more blamed and more isolated. So part of what we’re trying to do is to bring these two things together and to say, if you can learn this way to move forward with curiosity, what if we took those same tools into these conversations and to say wow your experience of being a woman in the workforce is very different of being a man in the work force or your experience of being cyst. Gendered is very different of my experience of being trans or your experience of being a black woman. Professional manager Leader is very different from mine of being a white woman, professional manager, leader Like what? I work for Microsoft for 10 years and at one point in the building, I was often the only woman in the whole huge restroom. And I would get startled if I saw another woman in the restroom because it was so unused to there being another woman in the building, you know, super different, then going to the theatre where women will wait for, you know, 15 minutes and then I walk in and out of the of the restrooms, right? And so So this is just something to start noticing that your experience is different and if you can fundamentally just accept that without blame, then you can say, OK, what is the workforce we want of the future? And how do we acknowledge that our experiences have been different? Someone may have had a glass escalator and somebody else has been clawing through a ceiling. But once were here together in this organization or in this moment in history, How do we lean towards each other with curiosity? Even you mentioned earlier? I think he said some of the physical manifestations of this among the people who are not the elite in the privileged. Yeah. Oh, our sound like you were referring to research of physical physical manifestations of this in terms of health outcomes. Yeah. Yeah. So, like life acceptance E on DH infant mortality or 22 rates. You can really see health outcomes on people of color in United States. What? We would actually we’re just setting this. Yes, we were talking about the impact of red lining on communities of color. Um, throughout the sort of last century, people color, black people couldn’t buy houses in neighborhood hoods and the weapon looking buy houses. And if people did buy houses in those neighborhoods, white people would leave. And judging the price of the property, this isn’t long term impact on the ability of their children to go to college or, you know, be set up for life. And so you can actually check? Was it like net and come or no wealth for for people, white people have a lot of black people I think is actually about xero. On average, across the population is a really impact on people’s lives and immeasurable. We still have another five minutes or so together. What else can we say about this topic? One thing that I think is really important for me, for your listeners and non-profits is like Take a look at all of the issues you have in your organization. Like what’s holding you back in good terms of growth, that every step of the way you’re going to find some touch of technology and each of those things. I think that’s a contemporary phenomenon. This is this is the era that we live in, and if any of those areas, if you investigate, I bet you find generations underlying those conversations. This is this is not just like an abstract thought exercise around understanding privilege. This is very riel way have, ah, my organization. We’re dealing with a challenge right now. Unlike who makes decisions about process about system, Wei have many experienced people who might be sort of boomers or Gen Xers have been trained, and they’ve learned their skills at a time whenever technology wasn’t a major part of their work. They’re now dealing with that migration to a system that’s very much technology based there, having to get on databases if they’re fundraisers they’re dealing with, like online giving an email and that kind of stuff ability. Younger people who are native in that in that world and they’re coming in wanting to participate, expecting different systems, to be available to them and then not having access to that expertise. It’s challenging. I think we’re going to see in a lot of non-profits shift from expert expert lead programs, toe having technology and performance management systems and business intelligence systems driving management for organizations. There’s a major cultural shift happening in the realm of technology. You’re gonna have to understand how that impacts in the community and the culture of your organization or to be able to deal with it. And one of the things I was I’d say that builds right off of what you talked about about digital natives, one of the one of the huge questions that’s happening right now in our culture in this country is, What does it mean to be native? And what does it mean to be an immigrant or a refugee? And who do we let in? What does that mean? Toe let in and when we look a technology across generations, there’s a concept of at one point people became digital natives. And that’s somewhere in the middle of the millennial generation, where you were born into a system where you had rights and you had privileges and you understood the language. And often when I’m working with people with generations, I’ll say, What does it mean to be a native citizen of a country? And so people will say what you have rights, You know where your addresses and even comes down to, you know, the right language to use. So first generation children well often have to inform. Their parents know you don’t have to say that to school or a siren doesn’t mean that they start interpreting the culture for their parents. And so it’s the same thing with digital native kids who basically interpret the culture for us and say, Oh, no, let me fix it for you. Just hand it over and so but this whole idea of understanding what it means to be in a land a digital land in which you are not native, in which you feel anxious where you feel like things, are at risk, your privacy is at risk. Your data is at risk. You don’t know what you’re doing. You feeling that and allowing people to have some time to think about that generationally. It’s slightly safer. But then it it it rolls back around to say So. What does that mean when we think about who has rights and privileges in our whole society, and what does that mean? And how are we translating that with each other and thinking about, for example, in public education, when your children are your English speakers and the parents may speak primarily another language? How do we think about is our system in English only system in school? Or do we think if we really want family engagement, we have to reach across that in some way? We’ve to begin to think differently. So a lot of the things that we’re talking about with generations and technology while we’re here, you know what the anti unconference and we both have technology backgrounds. And so he’s There are people to some extent, but we also are, you know, we are. You know, Eva and I are not exactly the norm in many other ways in our lives as well. And so we have the experience of not being the dominant norm in a space. And so we bring that to this conversation, not just to say that we’re white people, so we know everything about people of color instead, what we’re saying is that we’re white people and we understand what we’ve taken for granted as the dominant normal. And and we’re trying to figure out a way for people to have conversations that doesn’t involve blame and separation. We’re often times it’s like what I call the diversity sidecar, where you take all the people of color and organization. You put them on the diversity committee, and you kind of sideline them from the main business, right? Right. And so instead, what we’re trying to talk about is what if we were all You know what I call that? I call that divers Committee. Yes, they’re not. They’re not doing diversity for the organization. They are a showpiece committee that is diverse. I call that the divers committee and many of my colleagues who are amazing engineers or consultants or leaders or architects or artists. They’re not invited first to be on the top engineering or architect or artist committee. They’re invited to be on the diversity committee as an assumption because there are people of color. And so part of what I think we have to do is to begin talking about this because it’s not just because what we want to do is tow have organizations and a society where people are able to bring their best expertise into the space and we can talk about it. We’ve got to leave it there. All right, thank you. She’s Barbara Grant, CEO of Crux Consulting Consortium. And next to her is evey Gourlay, director of Information Systems of Food Lifeline Ladies. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thanks to both of you, This is non-profit Radio coverage of 2019 the non-profit Technology Conference from Portland, Oregon. This interview, like all brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Macon impact. Thanks. So much for being with us next week. E-giving Tuesday with Asha Curren It’s not too early to start your planning. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you Find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner’s Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy text. NPR, too, that for 44999 creative producers Clam Meyerhoff Sam Lee Board says the line producer Thie shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. We’re a little late there, Scotty. Yeah, big non-profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking Alternate network way You are listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Thie Best designs for your Life Start at home. I’m David here. 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426: DEI & Governance – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2This week:

DEI & Governance
Diversity, equity and inclusion run deeper than having folks of color on your board. Are you managing treatment, access and opportunity for non-white males? Gene Takagi and I talk through the issues, goals and methods. He’s our legal contributor and principal at NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

343: Youth On Boards & Crazy Good Turns – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Michael Davidson, board coach and consultant, and Dr. Brett Carey, millennial board member.

Also, Brad Shaw, host of “Crazy Good Turns” podcast.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

306: Going Social In The Boardroom & Creative Commons 101 & Seth Godin – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Jeanne Allen, principal at Jeanne Allen Consulting, and Nancy Rose, executive director of North Carolina Center for Public Policy Research.

Also, attorney Carly Leinheiser.

And Seth Godin, blogger and speaker.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

266: Your Engaged Board & In-Kind Gifts – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Michael Davidson, board coach and consultant.

Also, Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, our prospect research contributor and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now!”

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

261: Anti-Legacy Society & Deep Pockets – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Claire Meyerhoff, planned giving marketing strategist & creative producer of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Also, Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, our prospect research contributor and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now!”

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

116: Grow Your Grateful Patient Program & Disaster Relief – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Bill McGinley, president and CEO of The Association for Healthcare Philanthropy (AHP)

Nancy Johnson, senior consultant at Target Analytics

Gene Takagi and Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. My thoughts this week, of course, are with everybody affected by sandy up and down the northeast than into western new york, the finger lakes and ohio. My thoughts are with you, i am calling in from north carolina because i couldn’t get back home in time to do the show. So what? We have a show and we’re proceeding, i hope you’re with me last week. Oh, it would hurt me deeply tto learn that you had missed a conversation with janet eggers she’s, a senior vice president of products and marketing for blackbaud at their bb con conference last month, we talked about what’s coming in the non-profit technology market, special considerations for purchasing technology and leadership lessons that she learned from being a triathlete. Also gps global positioning. Scott scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news in our technology contributor, we talked about location based services that use the gps technology in your smartphone. Four square, instagram, yelp and facebook places are examples of sites that you can learn from your partner. With to get to know your donors and volunteers better this week grow your grateful patient program bill mcginley, president and ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy, hp and nancy johnson, senior consultant at target analytics, sat with me at the bb con conference to talk about health care, grateful patient fund-raising why these prospects are critical and very generous privacy concerns and how to start your relationship. Also, disaster relief charities want to help hurricane sandy victims, but in the rush to help, you can’t ignore the rules around private benefit needs assessment and documentation, you’ll be on the right path with our legal contributors, jean takagi and emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group between the guests on tony’s take two i have a bunch of sandy disaster relief organizations that are doing very good work, and i’ll share some of those. If you’re on twitter, you could be using the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us. You take a break and when we get back, we’ll go right into grow your grateful patient program stay with me! They didn’t think dick tooting getting dink dink dink dink you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. E-giving, you could joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Geever. Durney durney welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty twelve we’re in maryland, just outside washington, d c my guests are nancy johnson she’s, a senior consultant, target analytics, blackboard company, and bill mcginley, president and ceo association for healthcare philanthropy, both of you. Nancy bill, welcome, thanks for taking time on a busy day. Delighted fundez your seminar topic is best practices for successful healthcare fund-raising strategically grow your grateful patient program. Bill president, ceo of association for health careful answer. I’d like to get the articles right that got you surrounded. Details report. I like the articles. Why is a grateful patient program critical to healthcare? Fund-raising let’s start with basics in health care and our group, particularly those were representing providers, hospitals, medical centers, long term care, hospice and such. The group that is connected that has had an experience that has been touched by the provider is a very important group. They’re very generous, they are involved. They know what the organization is about, what it can provide. So there they are more generous, the average member of the public simply because they’ve had an experience with the institution they know what it’s like they are part of a major part of the family, which is the physicians, the employees, the governance, the executive, the trustees of the hospital, and grateful patients. They represent over fifty five percent of individuals that give healthcare so they’re essential for us and their big givers help me understand why they’re not unapproachable because of privacy laws. Well, they are very approachable, and privacy rules allow the health care provider access to demographic information, so names, addresses of patients are part of what we do internal for our fund-raising is perfectly acceptable. So it’s acceptable for the clinician to share with you development office is that right? Think the physician at the hospital, the nurse, the janitor can refer a name to the foundation for somebody who might be interested to get okay is perfectly acceptable in permissible under the law. And nancy, why don’t we start with some of the tips that you have for growing this very important grateful patient program? Fifty five percent of individual fund-raising to health care’s from these people. How do we get started? Absolutely well, one of the main objectives have to be able to find the people that are. In the hospital immediately so that the foundation can really approach, not approach them for it. I’m coming to say hello, i’m introducing you to the foundation and letting you know that our goal of the foundation is to increase the awareness of what we do to help raise more money. And so what we see is the opportunity to find the best people to make the right gift at the right time, and what we’re doing is identifying with people that are most capable as well as the people that are already connected. How do we start that conversation? Once we’ve identified people, how do we initiate conversation while they’re in the hospital? It’s a quick hello, i want to connect with you now, if you’re already a donor, i’ve been wanting to meet you. You’ve probably been wanting to meet me. We’ve maybe meditate events, we’ve we’re friends, so you would expect me to come by and say hello to you. So these people were starting with the premise that these are people who are already known through the hospital, oftentimes they are ok. Other times you’re a new prospect. A new patient, that’s just came to the hospital and what’s important is to let them understand and know that we have a foundation that will be working with them for the future. Okay, bill, what do you hear from fund-raising professionals in hospitals about making that initial contact? What kinds of responses are our patients willing to talk? Oh, very much so. And when our members are making these visits there rounding and they’re there in the room with a patient, one of the things that are offering to do is they’re they’re our contact for you, anyone that comes into a hospital to have a procedure that is very unique for the individual. It may be a bit routine for some of the providers are member, you know, really steps across that gap, providing for as a resource answering questions, someone they could turn to for communication to make sure that they’re comfortable, what with what they’re receiving and the kinds of things that they’re going to undergo an experience while they’re in the hospital, because it is a foreign land to anybody. Who’s, a patient who’s coming in for russian scary that can be absolutely it’s unknown and while again, it’s very routine for the providers in the sense that they lived there, they worked there. It is a unique experience for any patient is coming. Nancy, i took you on a slight aggression howto make contact once we’ve identified, but what’s your advice around doing the identification. Current patients absolutely. We have a process that is totally automated, so no human hands touching the data way. Use the black boy as blackwater target analytics. Many of our clients use razors edge as their donor management system. So many of their donors are already no one, and we compare they’re the names of the new admits two there database as well as to wealth program, and we’re putting a radio, letting them know the best prospects for major gifts, the best prospects for annual e-giving and that allows them then to make a decision if they should go visit okay, and or put them into an annual solicitation lorts joining and something even better. Yet, if we’re visiting someone that we know that is a major gift donor. And maintaining their interest in the programs and their opportunity to support activities that are beneficial for others in their this is an opportunity for the foundation to reach out to people with them in the hospital. So i look at it is they’re coming to visit you there, there if you don’t reach out and say hello to them after you’ve had a relationship for years, not really good. I want to say at least a hello it’s not going to be a long visit, but i’m reaching out to you. What if it is someone who’s who’s due to the hospital? Not part of the family, not someone you’ve known for years still appropriate, too. Greet them while they’re in the hospital? Absolutely, i believe that most people when they’re in the hospital, they’re experiencing something unique buy-in it may be the first time they’ve known about the hospital, they become part of the health care family there and by reaching out to them they expect it’s, a buffalo here here’s i discount for gift shop or maybe i’m goingto leave the newspaper behind for you. I come in with a friendly face, i’m not bringing in needles. And i’m not taking blood from you and it’s. A quick high. Okay, okay. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot, or or a h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll durney i found that interesting. What nancy said in the session earlier today was that these people are coming to your home. They’re coming to the hospital are home, they’re coming into our facility. Ten there are any experience you have in the hospital there are there five, ten, fifteen people that air in and out that air touching your life during that process and tohave one focal point that could be helpful that, you know, you could turn to if you’ve got questions or a spot that you can go to a person, you could go to facilitate communication and make sure it’s clear among all these services that are being provided is very much appreciated by patients. That’s what we find so you’re encouraging the fundraiser to ask, act as a resource? Yes, from times they do on dh it’s quite appreciated, as you know. All right. So then, after we’ve identified we’ve initiated contact bill what’s what’s another strategy for growing this program. Well, that’s part of what we were talking about today, there are different levels of grateful freight patient programs at the very basic level, you find that contact that call being made that introduction and it may be sixty or ninety days later where we’re looking at that individual and deciding is this someone we wantto make an appeal to our reach out to bout some program or service that we’re offering where their donation can help someone else? Is it someone who’s contributed in the past or who has the capacity to do more? Do we want to put them way want to put an effort in front of them or an opportunity in front of them as a major donor, where they can make a significant difference because of their contribution to the community and, you know, that’s very basic there others where you’re doing the analysis in the analytics, if you will, you’re assessing wealth management capacity so that when you talk with someone, you develop a relationship, you clarify their interests and also the level of what you believe they can support a particular activity in helping others. Now, nancy, you’ll have to forgive me because i’m going to ask bill about what some advice for hospital may not have reasonscall so there are some way to walk away. I don’t want to have a conversation, but i’m just thinking of our audience is small and midsize charities, and there might be smaller hospital. It doesn’t have reasons aid xero identifying you wanna do it right? Well, i will tell you. Okay, identifying grateful patients. We often look we’ve compared to their database no matter what it is, and so doesn’t have they don’t have to be a razors that juicer. The ideas were helping them identify grateful patients and look into the patients that air there so that they’re contributing to their experience. So it’s a step just that they would have to be a mechanism for sharing the information from from no, i don’t know if it’s missions exclusions. It comes from admissions. Typically it kind of sermon ambitions. And then it’s submitted and and no one really has to touch it. It’s, elektronik lee done. We screen it, and then the results are back within ninety minutes so that the foundation can decide. Okay, who’s the best person to go visit this oversignt bilich and our members are clearly using razors, edges of tools. And one of the best advantages of this as a tool is simply that expands our members capability beyond it. Maybe multiple be able. To multiply the impact, one person can have two, twice a ce much three times as much because it is some of it’s automated but it’s more instantaneous than than operating off of written records comparisons that you’re making relative to wealth management to an individuals in the hospital or who has been discharged is instantaneous, as opposed to trying to make all those connections in your head. So this truly, really expands our members capacity, forgetting to more donors this right on that’s, that’s, invaluable. Okay, well, do you have specific advice for smaller hospitals, health care facilities that whether they’re using razor’s edge or not isn’t an advantage to be a smaller, maybe community hospital? Well, you know, it’s it’s so much like any everything you’ve heard around the world all fund-raising is local, and it is individual in many respects and again razors age is a tool enables that capacity if you don’t have razors, eggs, there are some other alternatives and things you could do all the way back to when i started, when it was, you know, index cards in a shoebox, but it’s, that kind of approach, so there are things in between certainly. Razor’s edge is sophisticated, and really, the value is really an expanding capability. But there are other ways you could do that. Part of it is more manpower, which is hard to get in smaller organizations. Part of it is a process and dedication to that process every day, no matter what the elements are that you put in place so you can make it work. That may not be quite as effective without some of these tools, but it’s still gonna work. Okay, so the smaller community, when i’m familiar with a smaller community hospital, shouldn’t avoid grateful patient program. No, not it all so quickly. If your foundation executive this fund-raising is part of your obligation, your purpose and it’s within the health care community. These are institutionally related foundations to the hospital, right? They’re not out raising money for the you know something else in the community focusedbuyer hospital? Absolutely. Okay, honey. Another area that we all thought blackbaud way want to be able to help all sizes of none. So we eat. Tapestry is a wonderful solution. That is many times used for the smaller community hospital. See tapestries at a cloud based. Is it ok? And so i don’t think we know history tells us we’ve worked together for many, many years that many of the hospitals use razors edge that it like you say some of the smaller, newer hospitals, maybe they don’t need the sophistication, and they have way have a wonderful opportunity for them to use a tapestry let’s talk about some other advice around building back to building this grateful patient program. Nancy what what, what, what what further advice did you give him? Your seven? Well, each hospital is unique. And when they started looking at what makes the program different, it’s getting buy-in from the whole health care community from the top all the way to the to the janitor that’s in the room with someone the foundation needs to be more than the organization of the part of the organization that says, hey, do you want to be, how much are you going to give to the employee program this year? We want to make sure that the foundation is connecting with the nurse is the people that are front line with patients and making sure that we’re hearing you need to stop in and have a visit. Kayman we need to make sure that we’re introducing grateful patient programs that can enhance all the different areas of the hospital so that everyone’s understanding those programs and bringing the community together because really it’s all about the services that were providing to these cubine what’s your advice about getting getting clinicians involved in fund-raising first, they’re busy, my my what i hear and my experience in doing some plant e-giving consulting for hospitals is docks are typically well, i don’t know a good number of doc’s doctors are not willing to partner really with fund-raising with development office for the foundation, what’s your advice for sort of breaking down those walls, i think when you really start involving the whole team and you have a new approach and it may be a totally new approach, you have to think outside of what you have done in the past, health care is we’re having to raise more dollars every year, and when you’re asked to raise more dollars with less, you’ve got to use the right tech what’s what’s into approach help us help the audience understand what what’s one new approach they go to their their doctors by implementing this information so that i can focus within ninety minutes and be able to be next to someone and introducing all the good work we do that makes it takes the guesswork out of it. It allows me to be more focus, and then it also allows doctors to have opportunity to refer people to us and a system in place so that they know as a team we’re working together. Will you have you have advice for breaking down those walls, getting into those characters who are often unwilling it’s, not just the doctors you’re talking about building a culture of philanthropy and awareness throughout throughout the community, right? You do that, you do that. You do that with the orientation, with new and ongoing employees that you have. You do that in the training opportunities with the nurses and with practitioners and such that you’re talking about philanthropy or letting know about the foundation with the physicians, they’re human beings, too. You need to embrace them the way you do others, and there are programs and activities that could be very supportive of areas that they are interested in, either in their specialty orin pieces of equipment. Or things that are going to make their delivery of care much hyre to their patients, so sometimes it has to be very specific for helping them to see what the foundation could do for them if they’re willing. Tto partner and i mentioned that family of donors, the physicians are large portion of that, right it’s not every physician, but it’s, the ones that turn on to see the fact that getting involved this way, and even being philanthropic myself, which, if i do it through plan giving or some other vehicles, can benefit me and directly, you know, that has a meaningful impact on my patients and that’s where doctors focus it’s all about them and their patients seems to me so if we could bring it down to the patient care level, the benefits of working with the foundation, making those clear and one one other element that struck me is that in that culture of philanthropy, what you want to get it too is a point in the overall institution that this isn’t something that’s nice to have. This is something that’s essential that needs to be elevated to the strategic level, the planning of the whole so that the executives on the hospital side are learning to plan for and depend upon and demand that philanthropy be a major part, their business, and what they’re trying to do with it has to come from leadership, right, creating a culture and and we see in our benchmarking service that we do with the standards where you have the ceo of the hospital involved in active way in, you know, signing letters in being president, making some of the calls with you as appropriate, you’re getting a much better result in a much better return on the dollars that are being raised, because donors want to know that there have any impact, and the important people in this business are aware of what they’re doing. And bill, i think we’ve seen that change over the years. The two of us sitting in these seats have watched healthcare philanthropy changed enormously. Wey have to leave it there. Thank you. Nancy johnson, senior consultant with target analytics and bill mcginley, president, ceo association for healthcare philanthropy, thanks very much for being guest. Thank you. You don’t know what you want. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of become twenty twelve. We’ll be back with additional guests. I, you’re here further seconds, stay with us, my thanks to nancy johnson and bill mcginley and all the people at bebe con. It was a pleasure to be there, and i have more interviews from b become twenty twelve coming for you. Right now. We take a break when we return. It’s, tony, take two, and then gene and emily disaster relief. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. 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That’s, ivory tower, radio, dot com every time i was a great place to visit both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven, it will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Time now for tony’s steak, too. I have a lot of ways that you can help hurricane sandy victims throughout the country because, of course it was not only the northeast, not only new york, that was that was hurt, but the hurricane then you know, from new york city went into western new york and upstate, into the finger lakes region and then into ohio. So nationally there’s the american red cross. Um, you can donate at red cross dot or gq, or you can text red cross two, nine zero, nine nine, nine, and you’ll be giving ten dollars, to their disaster relief fund, including sandy. Red cross is also looking for volunteers, so if you’re able to volunteer red cross dot or ge is the place feeding, feeding america, they have a lot of food and emergency supplies. Water uh, that they’re e-giving throughout the disaster zone and to donate to them, go to feeding america. Dot org’s save the children is also working to provide relief to families and their children metoo they are at save the children dot or ge craig newmark, who has been a guest on the show twice uh he’s, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects and he’s uh, he’s matching donations up to twenty five thousand dollars for sandy victims and he’s doing that through crowd rise. So to give to that fund-raising dot com flash sandy relief. And when you go there, a picture of craig pops up. If you want to be more local in in new york, there are a lot of blood drives. I read hundreds of blood drives that were canceled because of the hurricane throughout new york state. So now we need blood. And if you want to donate blood in the new york city area it’s, new york sorry. And why blood center dot or ge? If you happen to be a techie in new york, you have tech skills. Um, new york tech meet up and new work city are organizing volunteers that have technology skills to help with relief efforts to help new york area businesses and non-profits get their technology back up and running. For that, you can go to bitterly dot slash hurricane tech volunteers. So that’s, uh, which place is that you can give time or money too, in support of people that are really in need throughout the northeast and a pinto, i said, north northern new york state and ohio, and on my block this week is a post called researcher bias in smelters planned e-giving study. Delta company did a a survey of potential planned e-giving donors. These people, they believe, are potential plan giving donors, but i detail in my in my block that still, the company also makes its money in large part bye selling print materials, direct mail materials, no website and consulting services for for outreach. So to me, it’s in there, broad corporate interests to have a bigger base of, of playing, giving prospects than we traditionally have had, and that, to me, creates conflict. They want to sell their services, and they’re encouraging charities to look beyond the what’s. Been the traditional prospect pools in terms of age and boiled e-giving history, and that i detail at on the block again. The post is called researcher bias in altars. Planned e-giving survey and my blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com that is tony, take two for friday, november two forty six show of the year with me now jean and emily. Jean emily, are you there? Hi, tony. This is jean and least beside me, but it’s going to be me alone today. And we hope that you and your family and all your loved ones are doing well. Our thoughts and prayers for everybody affected by the hurricane. Thank thank you very much, jane. I know you’re familiar with natural disasters being in the san francisco area. Yeah, we certainly did. Emily is there she’s just holding your hand or what? You’re not going to die. She pretty much is holding my hand and promising, tell me what to say. Okay, of course. Jean takagi and emily chan, they’re firm is the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo-sage which you’ll find at attorney for non-profits dot com and jean jean’s blawg is gene. I don’t have it in front of me because i’m remote right now. Remind people what you’re what you’re bloggers, please. Sure. It’s just the non-profit lob log non-profit law blawg dot com and emily is the contributor to that as well. Um, so we’re talking about disaster relief, obviously timely. If a charity wants to do something, they’re so moved, maybe they’re in of a neighborhood that was that’s affected or whether they are or not. Can they just start, eh? Sandy disaster relief fund that’s a great question, tony, and, you know, charities are often the centres of their communities, especially in small communities and it’s really great to see communities pull together and non-profits wanting to help, but sometimes the non-profits mission is not aligned, oh are consistent with providing disaster relief. They might be in existence for doing some others types of services, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t help, but it does mean that they may have to take some steps before they help, and one of the things that they need to do is they need to change their mission. So they’ve got to make sure that on their website, on their marketing materials, and particularly if they’ve got a mission statement in their articles of incorporation or their by-laws to change that, to expand it, to be being able to provide those disaster relief services that they want to provide for pete’s sake. So if i want to do something, i can’t just do it the next morning, i have to look at my articles of incorporation first, yeah, you’ve got to get that board together and take a in an emergency action txtgive that that mission statement to the extent that it is constrained by your articles, so you’ve gotta operate consistent with your governing documents. So you’ve got to change those if there is that statement in there, that’s one of the reasons why we like to make sure that the articles purpose statement, they called a certificate of inc in new york, it’s not so specific that you can’t uh, uh, let your organization of all take on things like this in the future and then a tip for revisiting your mission statement for all non-profits so is there a phrase that is safe that is brought enough that you recommend it doesn’t have to say hurricane relief, right? Absolutely. So you can say we’re providing charitable services in whatever area you want to focus on on dh leave, it is broadly is that in your articles, and then you could define it more specifically on your website and on marketing materials like grant applications, but when you decide to engage in a new activity like disaster relief, and that really goes outside of what you’re doing. Perhaps you were providing music education, you know, when you really go outside of that pounds, you’ve got to make sure that you don’t use prior donors funds, which were dedicated towards music education in our example. But you’re using nufer funds once you’ve changed your mission statement to engage in that disaster relief activity. Okay, onda of course, once you start collecting funds for a certain purpose, then you have to use them for that purpose. That’s correct. You can’t then if if the if the disaster is is overcome, you can’t switch your funds back to music, right? So the money that you resent you raised for disaster relief, you’ve gotta make sure that they’re focused on that. And we had some issues with that after nine eleven. And so are some other duvette actors where organizations felt that they had expended enough money in that area and wanted divert the rest of the money into other areas beyond that could be a real danger. All right. Is emily passing you notes right now? She always passes me notice. Okay. Okay. Stop it, emily. Genes genes good on his own. He knows what he’s doing. Okay, so once you then expand the mission statement, if you need to, you also have to inform the irs. Is that right? Yeah, although you don’t have to do that right away. So you can engage in the disaster relief activities, which usually you’ve got to do pretty quickly. But you can report the change in your activities and the change in your mission to the irs when you finally form nine, ninety for the year in which you changed those activities. So for example, you wouldn’t have to file if you were going, you know, finally for two thousand twelve until may two thousand thirteen. Okay, okay. That doesn’t have to be immediate. I just realized i neglected to send live listener love during tony. Take two. And we have a lot of listeners abroad. Tokyo, taipei in taiwan and yung yung in korea and send gen china welcome live listening love to all those foreign countries and also to philadelphia, which is not quite as far into me. I live in new york, but philadelphia’s not quite as far in as those other. Cities, um, pardon me for that, but jean but i have to send my listeners love. Sorry, uh, that’s great. All right, so once so, then once you have expanded your mission statement, if necessary, then is there any limit to what kinds of relief you can provide? Well, there are so you’re still restricted by what we described on our last couple shows private benefit issues. Oh, man, private benefit again? Yeah. You know, charities exists to provide a public benefit, and they can’t be operated to promote private interests. So you’ve got to be careful. So we can’t give a million bucks away. Teo, somebody who was barely hurt by the hurricane that would that would not be appropriate. You’ve also got to be worried about conflicts of interest so forgiving to board members or toe officers of the organization and not in an objective matter, not as part of a charitable class of individuals affected or with preferential treatment to those insiders. That would be wrong, but we certainly can provide funds, services or good ensure that victims have basic necessities like food and clothing and housing and medical assistance and things like that. What can you define a class of people that you want to help. Yeah, i mean that’s, something you should do. So you should say, you know, this is good for business and not only legal reasons, but are we just going to help anybody affected by the hurricane? Are we goingto, you know, really look at financial need? Are we going toe not look a financial need, and we don’t have to. We learned after nine eleven that we can even help communities that don’t have financial disadvantages, but that were hurt badly by the hurricane and or any disaster and weaken give emergency relief so emergency relief services can be given without a needs assessment. Otherwise we want to determine what type of needs we’re looking for. Is it financial need? Is it medical? Need it, you know, for disabled individuals within a given area? Are we goingto limited geographically all sorts of things that we need to target our mission towards? And then when we get this whole pool of charitable class members that want our attention, we have to figure out what type of resources we have and how we decide who to give it to the needs assessment. Is something that’s required or it’s just very smart to do well, it’s it’s really required if you’re going to be required to go the scorning assistance yeah, it’s not so required if you’re just providing emergency assistance. So for giving out blankets and food and shelter in the next couple weeks for the hurricane victims. There’s no needs assessment required for that, you know, it’s pretty obvious who’s in need. Okay, but if we’re gonna be e-giving ongoing, you know, rental assistance payments and that’s going to last for several, several months past the hurricane, then we’re going to think about why are we just giving it to a select few individuals? And how did we choose them? We’ve got has some objective in good faith criteria there. What about helping businesses? We’ve been talking about people. Yeah, that’s actually possible, and some people, you know, don’t realize that that’s possible, but sometimes business owners are financially needy, and that would be okay to provide businesses in that case and otherwise they might be distressed or or to come back community deterioration or lessen the burden of government. And we’ve seen, you know, from the west coast we’ve seen the photos of some of the the impact of the hurricane on the seaboard, especially, and those air communities where, you know they’re not going to recover unless their businesses recover their small businesses. And the small business owners need assistance to get back in there. Otherwise, the community is not going to get back. And so that’s a case where non-profits can actually provide assistance, the businesses as well. Okay, but go and going back to people. We can’t define a class of people that, uh, illegal in or, you know, impermissible in other circumstances just because we happen to know that they were particularly burdened by whatever the, whatever, whatever the disaster is. Oppcoll well, i mean, you could certainly define your class how you want it. But it’s got to be again, pretty objective. So that you’re not, you know, favoring people who either don’t really have a need or favoring insiders of the charity over others. Okay. We can’t target this too specific individuals, but we can certainly say community’s, though, right? Yeah, and it could be a small neighbourhood community that you’re targeting that was especially impacted or where the charity is an existence and it’s kind of the hub of that community, or or we could have more expansive criteria. Okay? Bonem now, so the people need to fit into the the people you’re helping need to fit into that terrible class. As he said, um, a little more about conflict, potential, conflicts of interest? Sure, well, you know, if you’ve got a board of directors of a charity of charities should have and they’re determining who’s going to get aid from the charity, we certainly don’t want them to benefit themselves, though there others, even if they’ve been affected by the disaster, they might be able, teo, be eligible to be considered among the charitable class of individuals and so they might get some benefit, but it would be incidental, and they should certainly not be making decisions on benefiting themselves. They would have to abstain if they’re part of that charitable class on who to pick that will receive help. I mean it. Would be nice if charity’s could give help everybody, but obviously resource is air limited, so they’ve got a decide who’s most impacted or who they want to help the most in line with their mission. And board members and officers of the organization have to really be careful because they’re in power positions of making those types of decisions that that’s the conflict of interest issue. And sometimes when you have outsiders who are part of the selection committee, you know that can create more trust if you get community leaders who are not on the board but involved in selecting who might be able to receive relief that might give some, you know, assurance to the community that they’re not going to only benefit themselves the board of the charity, that is, but it also creates additional conflicts of interest so that we make sure that those people aren’t benefiting themselves, thie outside selection committee members or their families or their business partners or route, you know, and, you know, business relations. So we just have to be careful about those things i see and that’s consistent what we’ve talked about in the past. That’s absolutely right, we have just a minute before break gene it. Would it be permissible for a charity to say that the charitable class they want to help volunteers to that charity? People who have been volunteering with them in the past? Yes, longest that’s a signature una, significantly large enough and indefinite class of individuals it’s going to be okay. So if we’ve got, you know, one hundred volunteers and we’re open to taking more volunteers and we’re going to help our volunteers that’s going to be okay, especially if they if they, you know again, not preferentially board members and officers of the organizations who are volunteers. Okay, but if it’s too small a classic like five people who are volunteers, we can’t sir, you know that just those five people is a charitable class that would be impermissible private benefit. All right, we’re going to take a break team takagi stays with us. We’ll keep talking about disaster relief, and i hope you do, too. Talking. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Than you need. Aspire, athletic, consulting, stop second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Got more live listener love to salt lake city and moscow and dallas, texas also south bend, indiana thanks for joining us live listener love to all those cities, jean what if you collect more money than there is need? Now you’ve you’ve said, you’re specifically collecting it for this purpose. It’s not needed anymore. What do you do? Yeah, that’s really tricky tony so one of the things that’s kinda boyd that situation. So you want to be careful when you read to find your mission? The only way that happens is usually when you defined your charitable class so small that you know you, you raised enough money to help them out through the air. Emergencies on dh you’ve decided you’ve got extra money left at that point, you’ve gotta operate as close as you can t to the charitable purpose for which those monies were collected, donors typically don’t have a right to get that money back, so, you know, you could go to court, and we figure out what to do with that extra money and people could bring you into court, too, to decide what to do with that. That happened with nine eleven i don’t want that to happen, so be very careful of that. You can usually find your way around it as long as you haven’t made your mission and your charitable class so so tiny and specific that that that it becomes a knish you later? Okay, but what do you do with the money? Well, you’re going to use it for close to that mission is possible, and if it’s if it’s really outside of that, then you’re gonna have to go to court and get them tio follow through an approved where that money is going to go and it’s called a sight prey issue. But i didn’t want to get into jargon jail, but i suppose they just have so i pray i like i like how that spell right? See why pr ess, isn’t it? That’s your sigh, pray okay, go ahead, go ahead, tell us, what’s, i pray is show off. Well, i pray it is, of course, latin and lawyers like to use it to impress other people on dh when i literally mean like you’re doing right now, james, i think it is near it’s possible or as near as i may be possible. And i think it’s latin. It may also actually be french coming from the old french language. So it’s often used where people have designated their gifts their charitable gift to certain purposes, and that purpose is no longer required or becomes impossible to fulfill. So that might be, for example, the eradication of polio which the march of dimes had encountered early on. And they needed to change their mission. Later they decided to otherwise polio had, you know, essentially been eradicated with jonas salk back scene on dh. They changed to birth defects. So i pray, is a very common doctrine used when charitable purposes have been completed or impossible to complete further. That sounds like a lot of trouble. Could we give the money that’s excess to another charity that does the type of work that we had raised the money for? Yes, certainly. If they can, if they can, if they khun do those type of activities and we no longer can then that that certainly is permissible. So long, focal donor’s intent and what the charity had said the money would be used for is still used for those purposes, you know. Okay, so there’s a dozen easier way out than going to court. All right, right. So long it again. You didn’t pick such a fine mission that nobody nobody else could do it either. Yeah. All right. We have just about two minutes before we have to go. Uh, let’s say a little more about documentation. We talked about the articles of incorporation amending those and we talked about the nine, ninety in that year. What else is required? Well, you know, what you should be requiring is the type of assistance that you provided, whether it be financial assistance or in-kind good blankets, food, housing, whatever the costs associated to the charity with providing that assistance, the purpose of why you’re giving that assistance and why you’re giving it to those individuals that are receiving the assistance over others. If the board was not making those determinations about who gets and who doesn’t get on dh, there was some selection committee. How did you choose that selection committee? On what criteria did they use for dispersing the aid you want? Also document the names and the addresses of the river citians of the financial aid that you’ve given or significant non financial. Aid given again, this wouldn’t be necessary for emergency relief, or you’re just giving food and shelter and blankets and things. But if it’s ongoing gauge, you wanted to make sure you know who those recipients are and you want to disclose that either there was no relationship between the recipients of aids and an insider, a director officer or substantial contributor to the organization our thirty document that i have one last thing, tony, make sure donors don’t hey don’t earmark their donations towards specific individuals that’s not allowed, so i can’t give a gift and say give it to my uncle, who got affected by the hurricane that we’re not allowed fifteen seconds. Where do we document all this is just inboard mitts you khun documented in board minutes or any sort of organizational document that you you hold and that the organization can attest it is the policy or the practice of the organization. Jean takagi, his firm is non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco and you’ll find him at non-profit law blawg. Thank you very much, jane. Thanks, tony. My thanks. Also to regina walton, live listener love going tow her in san francisco and she also very helpful in compiling the list of agencies that i had for tony’s take to regina, thank you very much. I have a new fund-raising fundamentals podcast out with the chronicle of philanthropy, it is how to recruit and motivate volunteers for your events. You’ll find it on the chronicle website, and you’ll also find fund-raising fundamentals on itunes next week. Career advice for your entry level and junior employees jonathan lewis produces career advice videos with leaders in non-profit social change uh, he his video interviews are free and they’re short, and i think they’re valuable as you lied and mentor twentysomethings who want to make a difference in the world, he and i are going to listen to, and he’ll comment on a couple of clips. One is called mentoring for dummies, and another one is called shut the hell up and also next week, maria semple returns our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder has resource is for researching privately held companies. You know, she always has a ton of free and low cost sites and ideas, and next week will be no exception. You can find us on linkedin reveling in group you can offer ideas for the shows and continue the conversation with guests on linkedin. We’re on facebook, you know that i haven’t said it recently, but that’s because you already know it. You can listen to non-profit radio, live or archives. The archive is on itunes at non-profit radio dot net on twitter you can follow me, use the show’s hashtag non-profit radio and you can also follow me on foursquare we can connect there wishing you good luck the way performers do around the world. We have left estonia, estonia is behind us so from estonia go west across the baltic sea and you land in sweden where they lightly kick performers in the bud before they go onstage. No hands allowed on ly a kick, please and when they’re doing it, they will say, breathe at the bend freak at ben, which means break a bone so i guess sweet don’t have femurs and to be his invidious, so just break any bone in your body is fine. You don’t have to be specific to the leg, so i’m wishing you breed at ben. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. I’m leaving, which is our line. Producer assistant producer janice taylor is sending me text telling me when the time is coming up. Thank you very much, general shows social media’s, by regina walton, of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get anything. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on so speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking dot com.

064: So You Want To Be A Consultant & NextGen:Charity 2011 – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Hank Goldstein, principal at The Oram Group

Jonah Halper, co-founder of the NextGen:Charity conferences

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Durney welcome to the show, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host. We’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I certainly hope you were with me last week when we first talked about giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving interview was recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was earlier this month in san antonio, and my guest was michael king of the national christian foundation, and he shared the process for closing gif ts of unusual assets, like collectibles, real estate and intellectual property second guest last week was proactive prospect research with our regular contributor, maria simple, the prospect finder. She followed up on her earlier conversation with me in a previous show by going into greater detail on making your small shop prospect research proactive this week. So you want to be a consultant? Hank goldstein is the author of so you want to be a consultant for the association of fund-raising professionals and he’s, a partner at the orem group he’s going to share his insight into the ups and downs the ins and outs of consulting for non-profits when should you start thinking? About consulting what personality does it take and how much should you charge? We’ll talk about all that with hank after that next-gen charity two thousand eleven i have with me the conference co founder jonah helper. We’re going to talk about this year’s conference on november seventeenth and eighteenth in new york city will find out who the great speakers are, what that conference is all about. My show is a media partner of the nextgencharity conference between the guests. As always, tony’s take two. My last week’s block post separate the juice from the pits is getting a lot of comments. A juicer at a restaurant got me thinking about fund-raising and how you should best spend your time. We’re live tweeting this week. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join our conversation on twitter that hashtag again non-profit radio we’re going to take a break, and when we returned, i’ll be joined by hank goldstein. We’re going to talk about being a consultant for non-profits so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Dahna hey, are you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney welcome back to the show with me now is hank goldstein. He is a principal partner of the orem group consultants to non-profits he’s, the past chair of giving us a foundation and former chairman and president of the association of fund-raising professionals, both nationally and in new york. He’s, an adjunct professor of philanthropic management at the new school. And he’s, the author of the association of fund-raising professionals monograph. So you want to be a consultant? I’m very pleased that his work and that booklet brings him to our show. Hank goldstein. Welcome. Thank you. Good to be here. Pleasure to have you. Why did you write? So you want to be a consultant? People were always coming up to me at conferences and wherever, and would sell your consultant. I’d like to be a consultant. How much should i charge? What do i have to know? And so i thought about that for a while and finally decided to put it on paper. And a f p was good enough to publish it was. How much should i charge? Always the first question. It’s right at the top of the list that you can read it in. Their eyes, we’re going to get to that had a charge, and how much to charge we’ll get to that later is do you think this is ah, natural progression to do? Most people think about this who are working in non-profits i think at some point it crosses the mind of just about everybody on it could be a variety of reasons they’ve had a bad day at the office, and they’re angry at their boss is one reason, well, maybe that’s not a reason, but it’s a rationalization. And then another reason a good reason is they think about their careers very often there ten or fifteen years in, and they’re thinking about what should i do with my life? And it arises in that fashion. They’re laid off from a job, and i seen some very senior people laid off in the last couple of years, and instead of looking around for another job, they say, well, maybe i should be a consultant and some of them do i always tell him it’s easy to start it, it’s hard to stay in it, okay? And we’re going that’s. Excellent. Well put, we’ll talk about that, too, do you have to wait ten or fifteen years. I mean, if you’re if you’re thinking of it consciously yourself, without any of these external loser, all external reasons for thinking about it lay off for ah, bad day at the office. But if you’re thinking about it on your own, do you have to wait ten or fifteen years? No, not at all, but i think you need to have a few years experience under your belt. I had a call the other day from a very bright young woman who graduated from princeton. She’s done this she’s done that she wants to work for dahna for non-profits for the rest of her life, and she wants to be a consultant. And i said, well, pile up a couple of years experience working for somebody, particularly in the area of non-profit hearing that attracts you, then we can talk about your being a consultant, but right now you haven’t got anything to sell to anybody, and we’re talking about consulting. Are we thinking, are you thinking this is independent work or working for a consulting firm? Well, it’s both used to be that one could aspire to join the staff. Of the consulting firm that’s. What i did way back when and in those days it was possible consulting firms had fatter payrolls, and i guess they were paying lower, but it was possible to get in that way today with virtual consulting the firm’s of mostly shrunken size there only a few really large ones that take people on most firms are one, two, three, maybe four partners and that’s it s so it’s much harder to get a job in a consulting firm unless you bring in a client or two on that, of course happens. And i guess having that client or two would would help you either way. I mean, if you want to be an independent, sure, it helps a lot to have somebody that, you know, is going to travel with you as as your first first or second client. Yeah, and the way that first or second client often comes about is hyre you’ve either been separated from your job or you decide to separate from your job, you decide to become a consultant and you say to the powers, i’d like you to be my first client, and very often that happens. And that’s, what gets people started? So that gets them going then as i said earlier, it’s easy to start, harder to stay in where is the second, third and fourth client coming from that’s going to pay the rent, the overhead and your salary and your health benefits and your dogs, chow and laura’s? What does it take to be a successful consultant if you’re thinking about it? Well, i think you have to look at your personality in in shorthand. I think that there is such a thing as a consulting personality. What is it? It’s it’s a person who’s willing to take risks probably has a slight case of attention deficit disorder because you like to do more than one thing at a time, you can discipline yourself so that your time is well spent. You have expertise either as a generalist or in some particular aspect of not-for-profits work and that’s and you can work without a lot of structure. The other side is this staff personality you, khun you like structure you don’t mind having somewhat someone tell you what to do, you can abide the politics of the organization with which you’re a silly ated and it’s a single thing and you don’t have to struggle with trying new hunt for clients and serve clients at the same time, which as a consultant one is obliged to do no matter how successful you are on staff. I imagine some people get a little frustrated by having lots of responsibility but not so much authority see that goes between those. Well, i think that happens quite a lot that in not-for-profits where thie asset base is thin, throwing a lot of work at people without consequence. Responsibility is one of the major sources of frustration or as i like to put it, stresses combustible and people burn out, and one of the reasons they burn out is number one. They don’t really control their environment. When you are a consultant, you control your environment, whether you do it sagely or not is another question buy-in environment you mean who you’re working with, what your hours are, how you work, how you build exactly, you want to sit in your jammies and work? You couldn’t do it, it’ll depend, but it does depend a lot on your own self discipline. Five we’re going to take a break. Sure, hank goldstein is going to stay with us. Of course, we’re going to talk a little more about attention deficit disorder as it relates to consulting and other things. So stay with me. I didn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, you waiting to get you thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to the show. Hank goldstein and i are talking about his monograph for the association of fund-raising professionals. So you want to be a consultant, hank let’s. Talk a little more about the personality that it takes because this is this is the first thing you mentioned when i when i said, you know, what does it take to be successful? You gotta have the right sort of personality. So you mentioned risk acre, or at least i guess not. Risk averse. What? What are the risks? Well, several risks are, first of all, getting in keeping clients is one. A second risk is longevity. You’ve got to be able to stick it out on maybe go a while without an income. Wait, let’s, stop there. Go a while without an income. Well, you start up something. If you’ve married well, it may not be a problem. Otherwise coupled. Well, that was my mistake. I see. Yeah. Now i know where you were when you know where you major state where years ago. But the point is, you have to be able to sustain yourself if you leave a job and maybe you take that employer with you. Is your first client? How long will that last? So there is that these days on that sort of a big, maybe two it’s a big you might just be leaving. Ah fund-raising zor staff job, and they have no intention of your first glass so that’s, right? And when you leave the harbour, you think you know where you’re going, but it’s a big ocean and you don’t always you don’t always know. S o i think that’s important in these days providing healthcare for yourself for your family, that’s an expensive proposition on it has to be calculated providing for retirement benefits along the way. So there are a lot of benefits people get when they have staff jobs that they have to replace when they’re on their own. Now that frightens some folks and they take, you know, wake up in the morning and they realized, oh, my gosh, that’s, that’s a big order. Maybe i better just say it. Stay where i am. It may be boring. I may hate my bus, but it’s safe onda lot of people don’t, you know don’t believe isn’t that sad though it well, it depends on the personality no. It’s not sad if you don’t have the personality to be a consultant to be an entrepreneur, to be a risk taker, the worst mistake you can make is if you’re not built for that to go out and try and do it, you’re going to fail and you’re not going to be a happy camper. But then you could s o and this is outside your monograph, but you could then look for another job as an employee has a statue and that night count, boss, absolutely no it’s not outside the monograph. I counsel people that all the time that you know what, you strike me as a really great person, terrific at what you do. But my bet is you would be better off if you’re not happy here. Look for another job is an employee. Don’t try to be a consultant. I don’t think you’re going to like it. All right? What about the attention deficit disorder you mentioned for? Well, that lady d’ya know what i mean by that? Is i i’m a multi tasker. I like to do several things at the same time. And i like working for a client very intensely, but then that burns down, and i’d like to go on to something else. And work just is intensely and come back to the first one sort of the way i do puzzles. So a lot of different juggling. A lot of different things that weren’t so yes, andi, i think that i could do that. I have personality for that. So in my work, that stands me in good stead. But it’s, not for everyone. Some people like to have a single task. Like to stay with it. I have a daughter who’s, a scientist totally opposite from me. She likes to sit in her lap and concentrate on one thing for a very long time. The you also mentioned discipline. Your your time is your own right. You gotta manage it. Right? Your time is your own. You have to manage it. And these days, more people work from their home krauz. And that makes it even harder because there are a lot more distractions for many years. First one, i had a company. Then i sold it. Then i was a smaller company. I’m still a smaller company, but i switched from having an office on fortieth street. Toe working from my loft downtown and i didn’t realize how much of a shift that would be because there’s a discipline in just getting on the subway and going to the office and being in an office, i thought i’d been working at home, on and off forever. I didn’t realize what a big difference actually being near all the time would make, but because i am a really disciplined person, i had no problem taking care of all my obligations, doing everything and still stirring the soup literally because i love to cook so i could handle that, and i know that that’s, not everybody. Some people just can’t do it, they procrastinate, they never quite get to work or they’re too busy shopping online. Teo, pay attention if you feel that you have the personality than what what’s the first step. I mean, imagine you have to have some money to get started. I think you have to think about what you’re earning now and either how long you can go without an income or what, at a minimum, do you need for the first year? And if you’re really conservative as i am in some regards. Maybe over three years, how much would you have to generate in order to maintain a lifestyle that you would feel comfortable with? And don’t make the mistake of thinking that when you work for non-profits as a consultant, you’re unnecessarily going to make more than you did as a salaried person? That’s something we haven’t talked about yet? It is not written that because you’ve become a consult, buy-in you will make more than you did before? No, not necessarily. Maybe if you’re at the lower scales of not for-profit employment, you will, but i see top people who were making two, three hundred thousand dollars a year laid off their very unlikely to make that as a consultant any time soon. Okay, the balance would be, i guess, quality of life, the balance is quality of life, and i think along those lines in deciding whether you want to be a consultant, decide whether you’re going to be regional and sleep in your own bed every night, or whether, like me, you get hives if you don’t get airline tickets twice a week, so this is sort of leading to marketing, which is which goes to the point. You’ve mentioned twice, is different to get in and versus staying in. You’ve got if you’ve got your first one or two clients, you’ve got, you’ve got to keep it up. There are really three pieces that have to be balanced out once you decide that you’re in this and you’re working at attracting clients, some marketing and branding is obvious of obvious importance website and so forth, so so within that you have to be willing to self promote right, you can’t be can’t be a shrinking violet really modest about your ability and what you can learn the value you can add through. No, i think, you know, and i think you need to have a track record that’s why i send people back to the office who haven’t really got the experience or a specialty or whatever. I regard myself as a generalist dahna with a an inch inch deep in a mile wide, and you can consult that way because you can hand off to specialists as need be, but certainly marketing and branding is one piece serving clients, of course, is the most important piece because the first client leads to the second and into the third and so forth, and of course, you have to manage a business and buy-in once you hyre receptionist, you’re a totally different game. Once you have employees, you really are in business, and a lot of folks will tell you that and it’s true, once you have employees, you’re working for them. They’re not working for you so it’s a totally different model than if you’re just by yourself. Bring calling yourself a consultant, which sounds like a way to get started because you don’t have that overhead. Right with hank goldstein and he’s, the author of the association of fund-raising professionals monograph. So you want to be a consultant? Let’s, talk about serving those clients because you made the point. Client referrals are critical and very inexpensive. Way to get the next client, right. Some of the most common way, ninety eight percent. How can you make sure? Oh, is that right? I think. It’s all word of mouth. Okay, i know there’s. Certainly in my practice, right? How can you make sure that you’re going to serve the clients? I mean, aside from having the experience service servicing multiple clients at the same time is a delicate balance it’s a delicate balance. And i think that for me and this may be oversimplified and we only have a limited period of time. I think the most important thing and serving a client is to make the correct diagnosis. The problem they come in with is almost never the problem arika and understanding what the problem is is ninety percent of the solution. It’s when you go to the doctor when she or he makes the diagnosis correctly, that’s most of the cure because then they give you a bunch of pills, but if they make the wrong diagnosis and they give you a bunch of pills, you’re not going to get better. I think it’s the same with serving clients, figuring out what it is they’re actually looking for, whether they understand that or not, and then delivering that that to me is the essence of the practice and that’s above the neck. It isn’t running around looking busy, it’s thinking it through and advising accordingly. Yeah, there are mechanical things to do in their important, but the first thing is to understand what the client really needs. So how come the c suite? People in a. Non-profit don’t understand what their problem is. They talk to themselves. Okay? What do you mean? Well, it’s, easy to too insular. I think very often, i think very often there’s insularity. I think that very often there trying to read their board and deliver what the board expects them to deliver hyre training to the test, so to speak and a cz organizations grow, they developed what i call hardening of the categories and it’s less possible for them to think freshly. One of the great advantages you bring as a consultant is your gut and your enthusiasm and your experience. But most of all, your honesty not to be a nice guy, necessarily. You don’t have to be a bad guy, but you have to be willing to tell the truth. And oddly enough, people don’t always like to hear the truth. If they look fat in that dress, you have to be able to tell them that, and they don’t always want to hear it on dh the they’re often more receptive to that difficult to hear message when it is an outsider who they’re paying a fee to versus somebody on the inside is a staff person, right? I can’t tell you the number of times i’ve been in a situation where someone said, but you know what? I’ve told them that, but they won’t listen to me. They’ll listen to you that’s because you’re outside, yes is very important to have that independence, but got to make the most of it and that khun b o okay, well, forget what i was going to say. What do you mean, make them? Well, you have to make the most of it by being a good consultant. You have to listen, we’re not in listening mode right now. We’re talking, but i’m listening. I know you are, and i appreciate it listening to what the client says help to make the right diagnosis, listening carefully on not just popping off. So when you do deliver a judgment it’s considered even if you i had a hypothesis before and turned out to be exactly right, you try to hear it through before you deliver a sermon about what they should be doing. What did you say your name was? No winkelstein i’m listening gets harder and harder, so the part of what i was going to suggest is that this can also be very gratifying. As a consultant, because you can bring the perspective and there’s a greater likelihood that it will be heated. It’s a great insight that we haven’t talked about that there’s a great satisfaction in helping folks, but you have to also keep in mind that a client has an inalienable right to reject your advice, and they do that about fifty percent of the time. So the best thing you can do is deliver it and hope for the best. Very often, i find myself way out in front of my client on a particular matter, and instead of being either egotistical about it or frustrated about it, you accept them the way they are. You try to bring them along, but it’s very important that you respect their perspective. So even with that limitation is very satisfying to be changing the world let’s, talk about some of the harder side the financial side of this. You said that one of the early questions you get, you can read it in people’s faces. How did they not so much what to charge yet? We’ll get to that. But how do you decide how you’re going to charge for your time? To clients, yes. What i tell people or advised people who are thinking about this question about what am i going to charge? What salary would you like to be able to maintain? Just take a number, whatever it is, one hundred thousand fifty thousand seventy five, whatever it doesn’t matter, add thirty percent for taxes and maybe some benefits, or even thirty five percent. Um, where you going to sit in your garage or in your kitchen? Or you’re going to have an office? What other expenses air? You’re going, tohave. You gonna have to upgrade your computer. You’re gonna have to have new phone lines. Figure out a budget for do-it-yourself when you have all of that done. That’s your base that’s the amount that you have to cover. That’s the nut, as we say and that’s where you that’s where you start, everything on top of that is money that comes into the business. Remember that you have to market it and branded buy-in you have to be able to find clients. And sometimes that means traveling, which is not compensated. You have to spend time writing proposals that are not acted on. You have downtime on you have to. Build into your fee the fact that you’re not able to deliver five days a week, every single month if you have an application rate of seventy or eighty percent that’s sensational. And what does that mean? An application? Right? Well, that means that even in a place like mckinsey, they can’t keep an employee an associate one hundred percent of signed, even a law firm can’t keep an associate or a partner one hundred percent of sign there’s certain amount of downtime, that’s not covered. And you have to build that into your structure. I wanted i asked you because i want to keep you out of jargon jail on this show. We have judge jails in jail. No, i hope i haven’t gone near no. You traded closely. But i kept you out most. Most people i could do that for. Thankyou. So in just a minute or so that we have left all these factors go in to deciding how you’re going toe. How you’re going to charge for your time. Yes. And then you know how much you’re going to charge, right? And then you can divide it anyway. You want you can divide it by day, hour week, however, and charge accordingly, i generally i i prefer a per diem it’s, easy for clients to understand. It’s, easy for me to understand. I was a liberal arts major. I’m not real good at math, so i know that labbate that works for me, okay? Hank goldstein is the author of. So you want to be a consultant for the association of fund-raising professional he’s, also principal partner of the orem group consultants to non-profits hank, thank you very much for being a guest, thanks very much. Been a pleasure. We’re going to take a break when we returned. Tony’s, take two, and then i’ll be joined by jonah, helper of the nextgencharity conference. Stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharpe, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com no. Welcome back to the show. Time now for tony’s. Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour, my block post from last week was separate the juice from the pits. Juicer in a restaurant that i like on twenty third street organic. I saw it and i saw in action and it got me thinking about fund-raising and how you should allocate your time to things that are valuable, the juice and disassociate yourself from things that can be big. Time draws the pits and it’s getting a good number of comments. So that’s what? I want to talk about it again this week, someone sheila bonem sheila recommended. She suggests the daily five that you always make five calls to donors every day, irrespective of everything that’s going on around you. Your goal is to always do at least five calls a day and those other things that could be going on around you. Could the administrative requirements you know, meetings could be volunteers sort of committee work that can take a lot of time, but she always tries to make five calls a day. Two donors toe. And also i think that probably helps ground her. In what her riel work-life needs to be, it could be very centering. I think nancy, in the comments on the blogged, shared her bless and release approach, meaning that you have to recognize when a relationship isn’t going to be fruitful and, as i said earlier, sort of start to disassociate yourself from that person or that relationship could be a corporate relationship to not necessarily individual person. So some very, very good comments on the block this from last week’s post the post again to separate the juice from the pits. Um, your time is valuable and it’s limited and that’s basic message you’re not just going to find time, you have to make it so make it an allocated wisely. And my blogged as always, is that mpg a dv dot com with now jonah helper in the studio. Very pleased that he’s with me. He is co founder of the next-gen charity conference along with our e t men who couldn’t make it today. And jonah is a consultant to non-profits his company is altruicity jonah helper. Welcome to the show. Thrilled to be here. Thank you. Pleasure to have you now. And i want people. To know that this show my show, by the way, it’s twenty martignetti non-profit radio because you’ve forgotten the name of the show that you were listening to, um, we are a media sponsor of the next-gen charity conference, but sadly, yes, you are with you from the first last year, and we’re going with you this year too. Why did you and ari start? Nextgencharity last year short, i was a professional fundraiser for the better part of ten years right out of school, twenty years old started doing it and loved it. Absolutely that i actually my first job, i didn’t even realize it was a fund-raising job. It was called the campaign job, and i thought it was political. I get there, i find out it’s actually fund-raising but but what i what became really my calling was the education piece of this? What happens is if you’ve a donor and you want to get from zero to ten thousand dollar gift there’s an education that happens. There’s a buy-in there’s ah there’s, a riel passion that you’re trying to convey over to this individual getting bought it and that’s what excited may andi throughout my ten years doing fund-raising i began to see a knowledge gap. I saw that the big organizations where i was trained was trained in the jewish federation system. Established been around one hundred years. You know, incredibly, you know, incredibly successful, sustainable organization. But what i found was that became very insular, very kind of focused on on who they were. I’m not really looking outside some of what goldstein was saying earlier. Precisely. I definitely identified with that on dh. You know, being young, definitely the federation system. I was on the news on the young end of the spectrum, i began to realize that the big organizations were not looking outside of their usual peripheral vision on does great things to be learned from all people. In fact, everybody does some things right. And if you believe that to be the case, if your antennas are up, you begin toe look, successes that happened outside of your organization, or even your industry, or even outside of the non-profit world. And, you know, being somebody who is constantly looking toe learn, i felt that there was this need to develop something that would be built around ideas, you know, and then ultimately became a conference around ideas my men ar e he was on the committee of mine when i was working for a special needs organization. He was there very vocal kind of that loose cannon on the rolling deck spoke his mind was very opinionated, but a lot of the same things that we were a lot of the same issues that we had in the nonprofit world. We realized that we have this common interest to see this education happen and kind of over a falafel or swarm on whatever it is. It was almost like that cliche, right? The business model on a napkin, and we said, we can do this. We were inspired by other conferences, but like the ted conference or gel where they were built around ideas, they weren’t built around certain institutions. It wasn’t just for fundraisers or wasn’t just for marking people wasn’t just united ways it was basically, if you have something innovative, something is game changing. We invite you to come and share that, whether it’s on stage, you know, whether you’re one of our successful presenters and you get on station share that or even in the audience. I mean, we have great, great audiences with people from all over, from startups to meet major marquis names. And they have a lot to learn from each other as well. Now, i am disappointed that you didn’t know that between short on dh, full off. Now. I’m very one is a deep fried, and the other could be lamb or chicken. So you mentioned ted in jail that next-gen is based on those models? What makes next-gen a different type of conference. Okay, so the conference that most people are familiar with is the type where you may have a general session with some big flashy name that would be like a draw, you know? Wow, they no one, you know, keynote for the day, the plenary session precisely, and sometimes that person has some real value to add and sometimes it’s purely the name. And then most of the conference is built around workshops, workshops to teach you how to be a better fundraiser, better market or better, you know, keeping employees happy for whether it’s middle, middle management or wasn’t where, whether its executives, that idea is to train them and have them in these workshops, and that happened throughout the day. The ted model andare model is to just have short innovation, innovative or game changing ideas shared on stage, like a broadway experience where instead of having workshops it’s that kind of general session or the keynote session, we’re taught where presenters speak on ly for up to eighteen mini snusz because that’s pretty much persons attention. Span. Oh, so that’s the longest long longest will hear a speaker is eighteen minutes exactly. And in fact, that speaker has a countdown clock on there on the stage. The countdown accounts down from there a lot of time so they know exactly how long they have. And for these presenters, these are people who have successes. Some are big names and some are not. But they have something that will really change the face of philantech. This is what you said earlier. Everybody does something. Well, precisely. Maybe some of us do most things well, but everybody does something well. And so you found what? People’s niches. Andi invited them to speak. It’s definitely curated. I mean, we we we we have a lot of focus on making sure that it’s the right person on stage, they obviously have to be eloquent and be able to convey their idea. There’s a lot. People of great ideas but may not be right to convey it, but at the same time, we want to give people a certain but a little bit of focus. Even though it’s not workshops, we want to unite people. An idea that they’re going to. Get something specific out of these presentations, so the theme the arc of the day this year is educate, inspire impact so educate focuses around the education system, but also about how knowledge and powers our decision making on about how constantly having your intent is up makes a world of a difference. I mean, a lot of us take that for granted, but if you’re not if you’re kind of in your tunnel, if you have that tunnel vision and you’re not looking around you, then you’re not in a learning mode. S o, you know, educate is one one aspect, and then we have inspire, which is, you know, anyone who gets into this business in philanthropy come in and come into it with great deal of passion, you know, my father is a partner in the firm, right? I’m sure unless it’s in the rules that, you know, children can’t work for the family, but the business for the partners, that would be something i could easily get into our investment banking. I mean, if i’m a good fundraiser from good at raising capital for non-profit, i might be good at raising capital for a hedge fund. And a lot more money to be made over there, so people who get into this line of work are doing it for a bigger reason than the paycheck s o they get into that, but when you start getting down to the nitty gritty and you’re dealing with the paperwork and you’re dealing with all the, you know, the more monotonous aspects of fund-raising or development or whatever you’re doing in the organization, you need to kind of really reignite that passion and remind yourself why you’re doing what you doing so that the inspire pieces there as well, and then the last one is impact there’s a great deal emphasis nowadays on accountability for organizations to say, you know, we’re going down this route, and we have measured reasons for doing it. Labbate a lot of every organization has noble aspirations for what they’re trying to accomplish with our mission, but i believe it’s, melinda gates who said it’s bowling in the dark, you maybe bowling for those pins, but if you’re not, if you don’t know where throwing you might not be being, you know, as effective as you can be, so we definitely have a focus. This year on the impact component as well and and what that means for the organisations in attendance, there’s a lot of conversation in the non-profit community about impact of i’ve had ken berger on ceo of charity navigator talking about impact and outcome measurements had an author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox on talk about the same thing, so impact of of the three i know that impact is a lot of what i’m hearing in the absolutely absolutely absolutely so so how many speakers they’re going to be on a two conference it’s amazing, you know we have right now, i think sixteen or seventeen, we always end up getting a couple aa couple late stragglers people kind of want to see how it all looks and then say, okay, i’m interested in doing it. It’s it’s a numbers game like in fund-raising we have our wish list, we ask our wish list and plenty them say no, but the ones that say yes, we celebrate in the office and ones that say no is just one more no before yes, we’re going to keep pounding them so the audience is going to see roughly eighteen speakers eighteen to twenty three bodies in the same argast ditore, iam speakers just come on and off the stage, you expect the theater. It’s it’s actually properties to the tribeca performing arts center. So it’s it’s, where they do the tribeca film festival, it’s, a it’s, a it’s, the real deal outstanding. My guest is jonah helper, co founder of the nextgencharity conference. We’re going to take a break, and, of course, john will stay with me, so i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors. Magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing hyre your services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is, we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Told you. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. The nextgencharity conference two thousand eleven is november seventeenth and eighteenth at the tribeca performing arts centre. You could get information registration, but next-gen charity dot com. My guest now is jonah helper he’s, cofounder of the conference. Who are we goingto see among these eighteen speakers coming across the theatre stage? Sure. All right, so some of them are big names. Craig, you mark from craigslist, who i believe was on your show was a guest on the show. Yeah. Talking about then he was talking about craigconnects. Okay. So what’s he going to focus? Well, obviously, craigconnects is one of his more recent projects that he’s doing he’s. I believe it was insider information, but i believe he is doing a talk on customer service. He kind of views himself as a customer service expert. And he has some really, you know, creative and resourceful things to share a two conference. And then we have other individuals, like dr peter diamandis, who is the founder of the x prize foundation. That is the foundation that gives big pools of prize money towards certain campaigns of innovation. So they want to get private spacecraft into space without, you know. The use of, for example, nasa, but to rely on ingenuity and teams a big pool of money, whoever could get into space, you know, fulfill a certain number of criteria and come back down, you know, alive and safe and that’s one of the projects that they’ll fund if they’ll find that they do something built deep sea exploration, their board is incredible if you look at their board, i mean it’s it’s, larry page from google and it’s james cameron, the director, obviously has the deep sea water thing don’t for him. It’s it’s, a real he’s got incredible board and so he’ll be talking at our conference about, you know, pushing innovation. We’ve got marc ecko who’s, a famous fashion designer echo unlimited here in new york city. Ah, he is a champion of ah breaking through bureaucracy he’s incredible, incredibly talented at spreading the word and also rattling the cage. He did a couple things definitely just google his name and see what he did to air force one. I’ll leave that as a teaser for you. How is his last name? Spelled e c k echo. Hey, is he has an organization on called unlimited? Justice that is, that mission is to stop corporal punishment in class and believe it or not, in twenty or twenty two states in the us, it’s still okay to hit a child in the classroom? The same states it’s it’s illegal to hit a prisoner in the prison system, but you can smack around a kid on dh that would sound like something that would be easy to change, you know, go to the you know, whatever it takes, we’ll go to the powers to be in the city in the state and say you can’t hit kids but it’s not so easy. This tremendous bureaucracy and he’s already gotten two states to change thiss wanted to put in a ruling to effect a law into effect that you can’t hit hit a kid in the classroom. So he’s another person who’s presenting we definitely have other unconventional ones. Teo neil strauss, famous journalist for the rolling stone magazine hey also wrote a book called the game, which is for for ah kind like the bible for how to pick up women he’s b he became the number two pick up artists in the world he was under taken. Under the wing from the by the number one in which for so we could write this book, he wrote this book tremendously successful, and we’re having him talk about how to seduce your donor. Oh, excellent, yes, it is interesting because you can go to a conference here in here from a gazillion fundraisers or consultants on how to fundraise. So we thought, well, how do we approach is from a new direction, you know, it’s about relationships and fund-raising about relationships and why don’t why don’t we have somebody? Who’s, an expert on relationships in a kind of a sexy, offbeat way? Give a talk, you know, to that end so definitely you can go online, see the full roster that we have, and we’ll be adding a couple more between now and the conference in november seventeenth. So, you know, we’re very excited with our ostro’s here, all right, and it’s eighteen to twenty speakers on that first day in november seventeenth and then what’s the second day eighteen okay, so the second day is very not traditional for unconference most conferences have predetermined workshops, you select rich which workshop you want to attend, so between the nine and eleven hour in the morning you could choose between four or five different topics sometimes, you know, i don’t know which one to go. This is very different. This’s calling unconference or open space. The model isn’t isn’t created by us, but it’s something that’s still not heavily adopted in the conference world. We’re basically attendees come no pre assigned agenda no preassigned workshops, they come and basically it’s a new agenda developed by the people who comes. So i get to the room and i say, okay, you know, i’m having problems of my organisation with donor attention or another person comes along and says, i’m trying to get volunteers how do i get volunteers? They come into the room big ballroom, big giant like three m giant post it notes they can write their issue and different a lot of areas in the room, they can post their issue, and then people congregate. Either they have answers, or they might have similar questions, and they can network around those issues. So it’s kind of organized chaos where where they come in and they and they get the solutions that they need andi network on a high level you know, we’ve all been to conferences with networking the conversation khun tend to be very superficial. You know where you’re from when you go on home. What did you have for breakfast? This is networking in its finest form it’s around the issues. And so do you know how many issues will you’ll be able to accommodate what we have? I believe we have the ability to accommodate ten issues at a time we have in the big bar and there’s these ten pillars which kind of create these natural pockets for people to congregate around. And we’re gonna let people post their their issues around these areas. We wanted to be organic. We want people to be ableto get the solutions that they need. And we’re not going to try to put a square. You know peace in a round hole. We want to give them the ability to say this is your programme. This is your agenda. This is your networking event. Get the solutions that you need, not the ones that we think you need. And how many blocks of time do you have allocated, teo? Ten topics per block. So? So basically the you know, the whole of the second day the conference, which actually is at the broad street ballroom, which is about a mile away from the tribeca performing art center, which is on day one, the broad sea ballroom wait, we’re going to be in there from nine a m to one p m and so the first two hours is going to be focused on this this unconference a smile where people can write their issues the second two hours with lunch in between is going to be industry round tables. So if you are in the health, carrie, you know, area of philanthropy or if you’re in education or if you’re in sciences or the arts, whatever it is, you can network with people in your industry so instead of it being a random experience at another, not another conference, you’re able to congregate with other people who are in your areas of expertise and then have these, you know, with these around table captains or hosts from the attendees lead the discussion with that with that round table group in each of the you know areas and the conference is the next-gen charity conference it’s november seventeenth and eighteenth with the second day being an unconference it’s ah, at the tribeca performing arts center on day one and jonah what’s day to where’s the forty, forty one broad street is the broad street ballroom. You could get information about the conference and registration at next-gen charity dot com. And as i said, this show is a proud media sponsor. You have one more thing to absolutely, you know, because you were one of our earlier doctors. Well, you know, we’ve made early adopter discounts available to attendees, which are no longer available because you were an early adopter. We want your audience and your friends and your colleagues to have that early adopter price. So if use the tony radio as a discount code, check out, you’ll take three hundred dollars off the price, which isn’t available to anybody else. Can i block that? Absolutely. Tony radio. Tony radio. Any idea? Check out. Excellent. Thank you, jonah. Thank you very much for being a guest. Andi, i also want to thank hank goldstein next week. It’s going to be year end giving tips. That’s going to be the subject. But i don’t know yet who the guest is. Going to be so if your ah fan of the show on the facebook page, you will find out, but that’s going to the topic next-gen next week, you’re in giving tips, and then scott koegler, our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news is going to share the latest in tech for your shop. Keep up with that’s coming up for pete’s sake. Sign up for the insider email lorts on our facebook page. It’s, facebook dot com, of course, and then the name of this show like us click that like button you can listen live or archive you’ve been listening live listen archive it’s on itunes every show is archived there. Find our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting. His sam liebowitz and our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. Help you be with me next week for talking altum at talking alternative dot com the show tony martignetti non-profit radio always big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent next friday one to two p, m eastern. Well. Think think, think, think, think, think, think, think. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You waiting to get a drink? Cubine duitz looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? 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