Tony’s guest this week:
Barbara Newhouse, president & CEO of ALS Association.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
Tony’s guest this week:
Barbara Newhouse, president & CEO of ALS Association.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
Tony’s guests this week:
Tony Martignetti, host of Nonprofit Radio & principal at Martignetti Planned Giving Advisors, LLC.
Also, Maria Semple, our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
Tony’s guest this week:
Barbara Newhouse, president & CEO of ALS Association
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
Tony’s guests this week:
Jay Love, CEO of Bloomerang.
Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now!”
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.comView Full Transcript
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No. Hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host it’s february twenty second. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be aghast to hear that you had missed some raise money while some raise hell. I talked about women in philanthropy, with marshals to panic. She was founding editor in chief of contribute magazine and is the new media adviser to the new york university heimans center for philanthropy. We talked about limbaugh and koman leadership roles, traditional giving and how women organized themselves also, pinterest and slideshare amy sample ward returned she’s, our social media contributor and membership director of the non-profit technology network, and ten she shared how small and midsize non-profits khun reap definite value from these lesser known social sites. This week dahna retention j love is ceo of bloomerang we’ll talk about holding on to donors you’ve got because it’s much cheaper and easier to keep a donor than to replace one j has strategies for you. Also more maria sites maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder keeps up her reputation. As doi n of dirt cheap and free this munch this month, she’ll review donorsearch and list select between the guests on tony’s take two the irs publishes a list of charities that have lost tax exempt status each month, and in march, that list will be longer than it has been other months, and i’ll explain now i’m very pleased to welcome j love he’s, the ceo and co founder of bloomerang and senior vice president of avectra both companies serve the non-profit sector only with tools for fund-raising and communications. He was senior vice president of the arts and culture division at blackbaud. Before that, he was ceo and co founder of e tapestry jay’s, a member of the national board of the association of fund-raising professionals. And i’m very glad that his work brings him to the show. J love, welcome hey, thank you very much, tony it’s, good to be here this morning. It’s a pleasure to have you dahna retention. Jay, why is this important? Well, because it’s it’s continued to fall. The main source of the data that i’ve been referring to so often in the last year has been from the fund-raising effectiveness. Project, otherwise known as f d p that was a combined effort of the urban institute and the association of fund-raising professionals, and they’ve been doing this for the last five or six years and it’s the first time that data of this nature has come directly from the donor databases, so that they’re the charities that have the software that’s in used by the various vendors there now sharing the summary data and being able to tell from that summary data exactly what’s happening and retention of donors from one year to the next. And what it’s quite scary, and that that retention rate has dropped from the low fifties now to forty one percent in the most recent survey. Has it been dropping consistently through the five or six years that you’ve had this pair with a year or two that had held pretty steady? But overall, it’s dropped about ten or eleven percent since the time that the study has been an active let’s just reassure any charities that might be using software. You would certainly know if your data was going to be included, right? And it would have been anonymous ized and aggregated absolutely ill. It is summary, data and it’s part of the licensing with the vendors the very nice part about that is not only does it provide information that people can use, but many of the software vendors are allowing you to compare your results to the aggregate results. So you have a very good idea of how you’re comparing against the national average and like i said, let’s hope that your individual charity is doing better than losing six out of every ten donors from one year to the next because, you know, losing nearly sixty percent is a pretty scary proposition. It means that you have to be on a constant treadmill, bringing in a brand new first year donors and the retention rate for the first year donors is even worse in most cases that’s down in the twenties or thirties as far as three tension for those individuals and the next thing i was going to ask, what you just aren’t used answered it so thie retention rates are falling, which means attrition rates are rising and we’re now at fifty nine percent. We’re now fifty nine percent in the most recent study there and like i said it’s a trend we’ve got to turn around because, as we all know, just like the commercial world, existing customers or existing donors in this case are much easier to keep than bringing in brand new ones because the retention rate is at least a little bit hyre for those folks that have already been with you, do we know about how much this costs, how much it costs to acquire a new donor versus those organizations? Do you know that most people know that the cost to acquire a new donor is usually more than the money is received from that donor in the first year? You don’t get tau ah break even status until the second year in most cases and of course, there’s considerable time involved acquiring new donors versus thanking and keeping retaining existing donors. Yeah, and and there’s some basic things, tony, that people can dio, you know, one of things that we tried, teo, allow software packages to help people to realise is if a brand new donors in and it happens to be above the average doner level that you have, that might be a situation instead of sending out that tired old thank you letter that you might want to pick up the phone and call that person and thank them directly and get to know them a little bit, or try to set up that face to face meeting or get them to come take it to review facility or something, because if there’s a telephone contact the retention rate, doubles or triples and we’re going to get to a bunch of those factors that we know influence, retention. But jay, you’re your background is technology tapestry blackbaud now bloomerang and avectra is this strictly a technology problem or there’s a there’s a big donor? I mean, sorry, there’s a big personal factor to these to these relationships as well, very much so i don’t a relationship there is no different than any sort of a personal relationship, a friendship, and i know in some large organizations there those donors are people that you’re only meet via electronic communications or written communications in some way, shape or form. But even that, as we all know, if you had a pen pal, back when you were in high school, there were ways of building that relationship and taking it to the next. Level, even if it was only through written communications so that you can, you know, have that person on the other end of the receiving and feel like they’re more than just a specific there. There there actually are a person that’s connected to your organization into your mission and their money’s air going tio achieve something different than what they could’t someplace else with those dollars. But as well, technology has a role too. Oh, very much so it’s. Like so many things in life just being able to know what your retention rate iss tends to improve it. You know, i think of the old andrew carnegie story of going into one of this steel mill plants and asking the worker on the line how many of that particular widget or whatever that they made for the day and he took a piece of chalk and wrote it down on the floor and said, you know, twenty one and that was how money this guy did. A shift with the afternoon shift came in it too. Well, what’s that number on the floor, they so well, the big guy was here and they wrote down what they did. Well, that shift, they cross it off, and instead of twenty one, there was twenty five and this went on for weeks, until it was up over fifty, uh, to do that, and it was all because someone was noticing and actually saying, this is the number that we’re shooting for, that we’re trying to surpass, and then not long after that carnegie ah, lock down the steel mill on dh kept all the workers out, but that’s a different story, isn’t it that i was kind of humility at least started a foundation, right? Yes, he didn’t gave lot libraries and pools and lots of public spaces in the in the pittsburgh area, but it was a bit of a baronet. I want that to be any sort of ah, witness are a praise for their for his business practices. I heard quite cruel things came out of that i went to i went to carnegie mellon university, so i’ve heard those stories oh, very much so that haven’t. Yes, all right, so this is quite startling mean, we’re on ly retaining let’s round use round Numbers 16:40 were only retaining forty percent of our donors you’re get, i’m sure, you’re comfortable with the representativeness of the sample that this data is from, you know, just to give you a bit of an idea that this is based upon data coming for about thirty, two hundred charities that in the most recent time period raised just over two billion dollars and fund-raising dollars so it’s, you know, it’s it’s, a small percentage of the total of fund-raising world, but it is a very statistically relevant sample that’s being taken from that group. Now this is primarily focused, i think, what makes gives us so many legs, too it’s primarily focused on the small and medium sized non-profit there’s a few larger ones in there, but the vast majority of the non-profits that are in this represented sample are raising less than ten million dollars per year and most of our below five million. Okay, well and that’s the audience for this show, small and midsize charities jay, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, you and i will talk a lot about some these factors that we know influence, retention and what charity’s khun due to increase their retention rate and i know you’ll stay. With us j and i hope everybody else does, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. J love is ceo and co founder of bloomerang and we’re talking about donorsearch retention this segment, j we know that there are a bunch of factors that either positively or negatively impact retention and there’s a lot of lessons that i think donors khun takeaway, i’m sorry charities khun takeaway from these factors, why don’t we? Why don’t we get started with actually some of them know that that, um charities don’t have a direct influence over, like, like the person’s giving, all right on recency. You know, i can’t break these factors into three categories, tony one based upon financial one based upon activities, and then a third one based upon communications. Okay. And if we take a look at the first one there, as you were alluding to is the financial aspect of it, there are certain things that you can tell that are moving that engagement level or that engagement needle up or down such things is have they made a donation in the last twelve months? Was that donation higher or lower than their previous wanted? They upgraded today downgrade did they make? Multiple donations did they did they support multiple causes or multiple funds within your organization so that they’re, you know, involved in in different ways? Are they doing something in the way of pledging or in a recurring gift mode? We know that someone that has signed a pledge card or that’s giving in a pledging our recurring basis, it’s much more likely to be retained from year to year to year than someone that is not did they come in knowing that they were giving to organization rather than supporting a runner in a race or something of that nature? Some those air, all factors that i think from the financial standpoint can move that needle upper down accordingly. Okay, now charities can have an influence and some of these for instance, you you mentioned earlier if, uh, if an office sees that a new donors gift is above the average, they should you’re suggesting reply with an above average acknowledgement and thank you exactly, you know, do something outside of the ordinary whether it’s pick up the phone, calling them, trying to get a meeting, or maybe a hand written note or a handwritten t s several of the boards that i serve on the first part of the board meeting that we do, each one of us writes out ten handwritten notes during the course of the board meeting to a donor that’s an above average first time donor-centric come in and take a tour of the facility, and you’re doing that in every board meeting you take time begin before every boy, every single board meeting there’s the i’m on the board of the local food bank here in indiana, on the larger food banks, and we have a, you know, sixty eight board meetings a year, and that is part of every board meeting i don’t suppose you’re in bloomington, indiana, with the company named bloomerang are you? Well, we’re actually in indianapolis, indiana way should meet sometime because i’m in indiana very often. Oh, wow, i didn’t realize that’s indianapolis in in carmel, i’m there there quite often. Um, good. So there are other things now you mentioned recurring donations that’s a very positive factor and you’re more likely to retain that donor than then someone who doesn’t do a recurring donation. So how can a charity go out of its way, then to think that recurring versus non recurring donor? Well, i don’t think it’s much as much thanking them in that situation, tony, is it isthe trying to see if you can talk somebody or ah, have them be interested in doing a recurring gift or pledge, letting them know that at the time of making their transaction would be nice to be able to support that critical part of our mission on ongoing time periods, so that if you set that up to do that it’s much more, ah, widely used around the rest the world in the united states, of being able to automatically deduct from a checking account or from a savings account, or even a credit card on a recurring basis. So instead of making let’s, say, a one time gift of, uh, two hundred forty dollars, maybe having twenty dollars, per month taken out with no stop date there, that becomes a way of really having long term retention for that individual, so that may be worth looking into for charities that are not offering that. And if you if you want a lot more information on that. My other podcast, which is for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals look back in the archive of that, you’ll find it on the final on itunes. You also find it on the chronicle of philanthropy website, and i had a guest there named mark, and they are see help ert h e l p arty, and he was an expert in e commerce and talked about online giving and recurring giving and how to set that up so you might look back at that fund-raising fundamentals podcast if you want more detail on how to inaugurate a recurring giving program the way the way j love is explaining, would you like to look at a couple of the other factors here? The activities in the communication once tony well, give me a chance now, jay, don’t don’t take over the show, we’re going to get there, you know the answer, it’s just for that know the answers a quick no, you’re you’re off, we’re i’m goingto have eleven minutes of dead air time now. I had planned to be with you, but i’m voting you off now. Of course. Yes, of course we’re going to talk about activities and communications. All right. What do you have? Under what? Do you have under activities? Well, let’s think about all the different activities that you can track that would be involved with especially and you mentioned with some of your previous broadcast some of the social media, but whether or not someone attends an event or whether they attend multiple events, have they taken a tour of the facility? Uh, those were times of thanks that that happened, but the one night that i think really growing in popularity is all the activities that surround the social media have they posted on your facebook wall, they become a friend? Do they say something about your non-profit with a particular hashtag and a tweet or on facebook or in a linkedin profile for that? Are they? Are they active in some way of promoting your non-profit to do that? And i often think about in the days before their non-profits new tohave like facebook pages and stuff like that, we’re, uh, a very active volunteer. I think it was the american cancer site or something like that turn around found out that there was somebody that already had twenty thousand, you know, people following them are liking them and facebook and they were able to help them bring that facebook page over to there usage. But all those factors, if you can follow those and there’s ways of very easily electronically doing that technology has taken us to a whole new levels where you can be aware of those factors. And it can actually become part of your sierra mere database, knowing that someone has said something about you and giving that a particular value and their engagement level. Now, see, r e m. Of course. We have talked about this on the show, but i want to caution you about george in jail, which i have on the show. See? R e m. I just explained cr m in case listeners may not know. Okay. That’s, constituent relationship management durney aram it’s it’s. A fancy name for a donor database. Okay. And we have had guests on talking about c r m but i like to keep listeners on keep everybody on the same on the same foundation. Um, i think the key difference being instead of just being in a database of pure donors and maybe prospective donors it’s everybody that the non-profit touch is in some way shape. Or form so maybe people that are affected by its mission. It maybe vendors it, maybe suppliers so it’s every single communication interaction that’s taking place indeed. And we have talked about that and some of the platforms that support it on the show. Let’s, let’s focus on some of the things that charity’s can have. The most direct impact on you mentioned earlier tour of the facility, and encouraging donors to do that if they’re especially if they happen to be an above average doner first time, but that’s something that and it’s also a positive when you get the person to do the tour, then that’s a positive attention factor that’s something that a charity khun directly have impact on by extending invitations exactly a standing invitation, but just thinking about what their communications are. Some donors have never heard from their charity except in the form of another request for a donation. It’s always someone reaching out with a hand versus sharing information. So think about it. Perhaps you could set up a communication schedule and actually get back to the person and say, this is how we’re doing. We’re tracking ourselves, and this is how well we’re achieving our mission. And one that’s that’s absolutely magical that i just wish everybody would do is just telling every donor but their money’s air doing what if you can specifically say that those dollars went to this particular activity or this particular fund? And this is what it’s doing? And even if it goes into a general fund, you can just say these air what your money’s are achieving force and just share that information without asking for another donation. People tend to feel very appreciated for that being the case. And and i guess a lot of my experience has come over the years, tony, of becoming much more of a donor myself. And then i used to run an interesting experiment adi tapestry and bloomerang, where i would ask the new employees to take fifty dollars, that we would provide him fifty dollars, and say go out and make five or ten donations to five or ten different charities, and come back to me in three months and let me know who build a relationship with you and who did not. Excellent att those low levels. And what what did you find? Oh, uh, it was there were some absolutely marquis organizations that my employees would stumble upon that even for a five dollar gift, right, they would build a relationship. And what was ironic? Some of my employees are still lifelong donors to those organizations after making that small gift that was given to them to make on behalf of the company. That’s terrific that’s great! Listen, yeah, i just it was remarkable how you do it and i told him to try to mix. I said pick between a few national organisations and a few local organizations just to see what’s going on there because i honestly believe any small non-profit i know a lot of your listeners are in that category, tony. All they have to do is try that express themselves, take one hundred dollars and go make ten, ten dollar gifts or twenty five dollar gift to some national organizations and then just copy what those groups are doing. Find out which ones make them feel the best, and start building that into their own processes that they’re doing it. The local charity. Excellent, that za terrific suggestion in a great use, i think of one hundred dollars you khun khun! Survey, i think survey twenty charities for one hundred bucks, right? I mean, you get to do your own little, many mba, your research project for one hundred or two hundred dollars, and because you get to see every type of communication and i would mail some in, and i would do some electronically and see what the difference is listeners may want teo, listen back to some of the three, four months siri’s that i had with amy sample ward are regular social media contributor about riel engagement using the online networks because a lot of what jay talked about posting on the facebook wall replying to a tweet, etcetera, there’s, their real engagement strategies. And amy and i talked about that over four months of her being on once a month. How to really engage through the through the the social media sites. There’s also things just that people can report to the charity like if they if they keep their communication preferences current exactly things like that in the communication area, if you are able to. If your email system and your communication system is tied into your database, you can check real quickly. Does someone open? My e mails i sent to them are they clicking through to a link senate to read further on the stories? Ah, very important one are they forwarding it on to other people? And, you know, are they lying that you can get all that reported back to you? And it could be part of the data base that you can see, and then you hit upon a real important one there? If someone has taken the time to let you know that their address has changed, either their electronic email address or their mailing address has changed. Boy that’s a very special person you want to put a big red gold star something on that? Because that person, if they’ve taken the time to let you know that their address has changed is is probably four to five times more likely to become a major donor or a legacy donor to your organization in the long run, because they care that’s, they’ve done far out of the ordinary what anybody else would dio that’s so interesting because it’s it’s purely ministerial, they filled out a reply card with an updated phone number or address or email address. What can a charity? Do i mean, should there be a thanks for keeping current with us? I mean, because typically now i think the most charities doing nothing, that it goes to the database administrator, the donor services team, the database gets updated and then that’s it. What could we be doing? So i think that record person gave mark that this is someone who took the time out of the ordinary to do that, and that should be made to the attention of either a gift officer or fund-raising person or a plan giving person so that they can reach out and just try to get to know that person. Because if you combine the two, if that’s someone that’s been eh, multiyear donor, even at a small level, and has let you know that ah, and many of you out there i know have read the book the millionaire next door. That may be a good chance that that person falls into that category and could be a very, very substantial legacy donorsearch sometime down the road for your organization here we have just a few minutes left. Let’s talk about your the communications factors that we’re aware of. That we that we haven’t talked about yet, what are some of those that possibly a little bit of the people that have, you know, that opened up your emails and different things of that nature? Another big communication factor is if you can find out who has visited your website and who has downloaded information, i think every non-profit website should give people reasons to come back. That means that there’s got to be new content on there. Ah, and that could be something as simple as block post from the executive director or from other people within the organization are case studies or case histories, but i always love if you make available documents to download. This is this is a document that tells you about our mission that tells you about our performance metrics, what we’ve been able to do to achieve our mission. If there are pds and different types of documents in background information, annual reports, quarterly reports thinks that nature people love that, download them and look at them, particularly folks, that aaron, that the higher level of donors categories to do that, so being able to track those communication activities and then being wired into your front desk or your receptionist, anybody that calls your organization that should always be marked in the database to know that this person has reached out and actually dialed our organization, whether was asking for information or giving us information or something of that nature, those are people that are communicating with you and that’s half the battle. Yes, these air excellent on dh, very simple strategies. Really j we have just about a minute left. I have to ask you, what is it you love about the work that you’re doing, being able to help all size non-profits do their job better because if you could, i’d have hanging on my wall, something that my daughter created for me when she was in the elementary school saying that my dad works helping further missions of non-profits and i still have that hanging in my wall today, and it will always be part of my life, i think. J, thank you very much for being a guest. You’re welcome. Thank you, tony. My pleasure. J love is ceo and co founder of bloomerang, which you’ll find at bloomerang dot co real pleasure. Thank you very much, jay. Thank you very much money. But when we return, it’s tony’s, take two and then maria simple mohr, maria sites. Stay with me, e-giving. Anything tooting, getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? 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Lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Yeah, hi there, it’s time for tony’s take due at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. I wish i could send live listener love today, but we’re pre recorded, so i cannot do that. I know you’re out there live listeners and i do love you, but i just don’t know where exactly you are this week. My block this week is expect expanded i arrest revocation list in march. Since june two thousand eleven, the irs has released a monthly list of charities whose tax exempt status has been revoked because they didn’t file the annual form nine, ninety or one of its cousins next month’s list march will be larger than usual because the irs is changing the admission standard for getting on the list. It’s not it’s, not like college. This is it’s getting easier to get onto this list not like colleges. Starting next month. Charities, they’re going to get a one month notice that they’re facing revocation and up until now you didn’t get on the list until you were already had been revoked for six months, so you can see next month is going to be a seven month catch up all this. All the ones that are leading up to six months, plus the ones that are one month away from revocation and there’s a lot more information about that on my blogged, including a link to get your tax exempt status reinstated. If you happen to be unfortunate enough to be on this revocation list, my blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, february twenty second, the eighth show of the year. You know maria simple she’s, a prospect, find her she’s, a regular prospect research contributor she’s our doi n of dirt cheap and free resource is she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research? Her website is the prospect finder dot com her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now exclamation mark and you can follow maria on twitter at maria simple fremery a simple welcome back. Hey there, tony, how are you today? I’m doing very well, thank you. Good to have you back. Thank you. You have our doyin has two, two sites why don’t you just give a little overview of what we’re talking about this week? So this week i’m talking about two. Sites that have both a free and a fee based component to them so one will help you both with your reactive and proactive prospect research, which we’ve talked about the house in terms of lives buy-in sorry, no, yes, we’ve definitely talked about proactive and reacting, i would know that’s beyond jargon jail. Now we’re way past that, okay? And then then, you know, and then the other one is really about proactively trying to seek a new new prospects. I’m constantly approached by non-profits that say, you know, we really feel like we’ve tapped out our current donorsearch list and, you know, we’ve done the research and so forth on our list, but we just need to get some new names into the pipeline. So came across an interesting product that i thought might be helpful to at least discuss on the show. Okay, on the first one of these is donorsearch donorsearch yeah, so this is a company that does in depth prospect research, so they are there’s a number of competitors out there that do this on dh donorsearch is based in maryland, and they have they have both a c and a a free product. So i thought we’d start off, at least by talking about the free product first, if you want to do that, what’s the earl for donorsearch first. Well, it’s donorsearch dot net, however, for the free piece. It’s donorsearch lead dot net flash integrated search. Okay, so i’ll make sure that we get that up on to the lincoln. And first yeah, why don’t we do that for both of these sites? Okay, so let’s talk about the free part first for us. Donorsearch so for the free part, you would put in an individual’s name, this is under the assumption that you have maybe an event that you’ve had or maybe a new donor prospect name has been brought to your attention, and you want to do some in depth research on them. Or maybe you have an upcoming cultivation event, and you’d like to know about person in advance of the event so you can put in there their name, whatever you know about them already there named contact info. If you happen to know the company they’re affiliated with, you can put that in there as well and then hit the search button and what it will. Do is it won’t show you the search results on the screen, but it will email you basically, ah, profile of that individual. So it’s really, you know, a quick and easy way to get some vast information on an individual if you’re not already subscribed to a service that would be able to do that for you. So you’re doing this one person at a time, right? That’s, right, it’s one person at a time and you know that where, you know the upgrade to the sea bass portion would be useful is if you’re looking to screen, you know, a lot of names at once it’s going to give you that, you know that capacity, but also they have under the sea bass hold on, i want to i want to stick with the free for the free portion for a couple of a couple seconds more. Is there any limit to the number of searches that you can do on the free? So, no, so if you’ve got the capacity or a gn intern or someone willing to sit there and just plunking a bunch of names and and monitor those profiles coming back through e mails. And and certainly that can be done ok? And how robust are the profiles that you get back? What do they look like? So they cross check the types of databases that would give you both a philanthropic data, but also, you know, the traditional sort of wealth databases, so they’ll give you information about both charitable and political e-giving um and it will give you information about property records, dunn and bradstreet types of reports if they happen to be a corporate insider. Um, political donations, i think i mentioned that if they happen to be in who’s who the marquis who’s who’d database there, their biography will come up there also, if they’re connected to a foundation when their director on a board of directors on a foundation, they’ll come up in the guide star report. So there are, you know, a number of touchpoint that are very useful for you to know about, you know, and the thing i always tell non-profits so it’s really, you know, if you if this is for a major gift, you really don’t want to stop, no matter what company you’re using to get these quick profiles from i would never just stop that, you know, try and go a little bit more in depth look for articles in the newspapers and, you know, whatever else you can find out on the internet free or fee based resource is so i think this is a great starting point. Certainly if you have an event coming up or post event, you want to know some more information about an individual, i think it’s a great place to start it sounds like it’s it’s a pretty, pretty robust profile for for free. Yeah, yeah, it really is. It really is. So, you know, it’s definitely worth looking into. So again, if if you want that that website its donor lee dot net forward slash integrated search ok? And how about there a fee based service so they see the service is at the website donorsearch dot net, and already there’s been some information there about the various products they have, as well as their online screening tool. So, you know, if you’re a non-profit or maybe you’ve just taken over an organization, um, that has, you know, somewhat of a mass of a database that’s never been screened, and you’re new to the job and you’re just not sure g, you know, i’ve got to figure out a way to prioritize these folks a bit, you know, you might want to consider a screening through donorsearch or even, you know, some of the competitors companies out there, but, you know, donorsearch does provide screening services well, okay, do you get a more complete profile if you subscribe versus the free report that you get on donors? Yeah, thie sea based reports, the ones that you would get really as part of a screening would include analytics and what they called predictive modeling to try and figure out, you know, it’ll give you some idea about the person’s capacity, and usually when you have a full screening done, you know, your prospects are kind of raided for you, you know? So you’ll know which one’s elevator to the top as being perhaps the ones you want to focus on first. Okay, so you get something that’s similar to a screening, but you don’t have to buy their screening service, right? I mean, if you want to, well, you won’t have the actual predictive modeling and analytics through the free search, you know you have a batch of names i would, i would really suggest you if you’ve got a few hundred names or a few thousand names that you consider doing it through the sea bass portion. Renee offer, right? But i’m trying to get out. If you do the fee based, are you subscribing to their screening service? Or you can still get individual reports that have the predictive modeling in them? Yeah, you know, when these companies offered screenings generally, you also have access to the database afterward, usually for about a year. So this is definitely something to consider, and then i noticed on their website that they would offer a free screening of two hundred current records to kind of test their full product. Um, so folks are interested in taking them up on that particular offer they can go to donorsearch dot net and check out the information it’s right on their home page. Okay, i’m trying to i’m trying to get at one thing. If you’re subscribing to the fee based service you’re paying for it is that on ly a screening option, like in aggregate? Or can you still do searches of one or five or one? Hundred individuals still do searches afterward of you, no additional names. If they come forward, you’ll have that one off. I’ll go in on dh. Can you give listeners a sense of what the fees are? You know, i really don’t like to get into that type of conversation because sometimes these companies, you know, they change and, you know, this is a recorded show, tony, so i don’t want to really get into that because somebody might be listening to three, five years down the line on ice helps on dh. So certainly, you know, product pricing can change, so i think it’s really best for them, tio maybe just take them up on that free two hundred name offer where at least take a look at these free, integrated search tool that they have on day. If it looks like it’s useful to them, you know, they get into a conversation directly with folks donorsearch okay, i’ve been admonished by maria. Simple. I never. I never said that before. Okay, um, so you had you had talked about this as being a way of generating new prospects? Well, actually, the other tool that’s thay this is really this is really donorsearch is for existing names that you already know, right? Right? So this would be for, you know, screening and so forth, so, you know, definitely if they want to take a look at, you know, integrated search on a free bases, they can take a look at what the output looks like i got you okay? And i liked your suggestion of looking at people after an event, maybe it’s someone came to your event because they were invited by by someone who you do know, and now you’d like to find out more about this, this new person, ways to engage them, which the first segment was very much about today on dh you can use donorsearch to do that, i like that suggestion. Yeah, absolutely. I would suggest that to organizations especially if they’re having hyre cultivation events or even you know, we’ve we’ve you’ve probably talked on your show about these ask events where people specifically come and know that they will be asked to donate well, it might be might be kind of good to know in advance some information about those folks, maybe even advance troop even better. Ok, what’s what’s list select about that’s your next one so listselect is, uh, is by a company the company behind this is called anchor computer company, and they were they were actually started back in the seventies, and what they’ve done is they’ve come out with this product called listselect that could be useful both in for-profit and non-profit world, so it was originally designed for general target marketing, and so it has the names and addresses of close to ninety percent of the u s adult population and it’s compiled from public records and united states postal service data, and then what they do is they overlay it with demographic interest type categories. So i’ve gone in and i, you know, i’ve done a little bit of playing around just to give you an idea of what this looks like so you can actually run your searches just to kind of see, with numbers of prospects might look like, and then you don’t pay for the list until you decide this looks like a list that could be useful to you, um, and it’s. Uh, a list, a rental. I don’t know if you’ve talked about that on your show in the past. So you can either rent this list for a one time use or for a one year basis. Okay, we’re going to go away for a minute. And when we come back, you can talk a little about lister mental, because i don’t think it’s something that i have covered. And we’ll talk more about listselect with maria. Simple. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Durney i’m talking with maria simple, the strict taskmaster who put me in my place about fees. We’re going talk about fees anymore att least not in dollar terms will certainly let you know when something is fee based. Um, so what’s the fee for listselect now i’m getting well, actually, i did run a couple of just, uh ah searches that i thought would be kind of fun just to kind of see what the costs might be it’s very evident when you run a search so it’s, very clear up front what you’d be paying for that list, you know, before you, actually so they tell you, and so you can change the parameters, tio, what you’re looking for and really play around with it till it gets to a point where you feel like this is a new four doble list, andi something that, you know, would be useful for your organization, okay? In a minute, we’re gonna talk about list rental, but but do you know what the output is going to look like? What? What? Uh, information, you’re going to get about each person before you have to pay for the list? Yes, i’m told that. You get a first name, last name, address, phone number and in some cases, email addresses as well. Okay. Oh, really? So, it’s, just basic contact information. This is not the complete profile like donorsearch does that’s correct? That’s correct. So this would really be used for true proactive prospecting. You know what you think that you would hear in a sales world of, you know, getting more names, more leads into the funnel. So people who might have a certain affinity on do you know? So we could talk about what some of these parameters are way when we get further into the conversation. Okay, but let’s, talk about let’s rental. Now you’re just you’re renting this list. How does that work for you? So you now let me just set it up. You now have the contact information for these people. Email address? I guess. So you have. What does it mean that you’re renting the list? Well, i i think you get the full snail mail, ok? Yeah, and phone numbers. So you can decide that you need that list for a one time usage. So maybe you’re you’re going to send out some sort of a postcard campaign or targeted mailing some sort or targeted calling phone calling campaign? You know, i wouldn’t, you know, being as i also do email marketing as one of my businesses, i’m very sensitive to email acquisition, i wouldn’t necessarily advocate buying or renting email addresses and then putting them into your database and e mailing out i could get you into trouble with your email service provider because it’s, because it’s unwanted and it’s spam is that could be construed as spam. So i’m just very sensitive to that. I think it would be better to use these list, really? For snail mail and phone call purposes, okay? And what does it mean that you’re you’re renting the list? So you actually then don’t own only information? It truly is just a rental on, so, you know they have, i guess, it’s one see if you’re going to rent it as a one time basis and probably a slightly higher fee. If you need to have that list accessible to you, maybe you plan to do, you know, quarterly mailings to the list or something like that? He would need the rental for the whole year, so you’re going to pay maur if you do want to put that information into your donordigital base, i would think so, yeah, ok, interesting, i think. Okay, so you you mentioned talking about a little talking about the parameters of what you’re what the output is going to be, right? So i just don’t like a couple of quick search is just to kind of see, all right, well, if i were, you know, a non-profit executive, what might some of the fields of information be interesting to me so you could do a geographic search and then, you know, break it down further by certain points of demographic. So i had done just a sample search to see well, i’m interested in people who would have an income over two hundred fifty thousand dollars based in new jersey, who are also classified what they call mail order donors i think in our world, in the nonprofit world, we would call that, you know, male appeal donors, and it turned out that there were there was a total household account of just over fourteen thousand names close to fourteen thousand five hundred, and that costs came out to about in the four hundred fifty dollars. Okay, so that was you know what that parameter came up with our center decided to so these are thes air search these air inputs that you’re that you’re trying to narrow your list by our lorts yeah. All right, well, what if i were a non-profit executive with some sort of an animal welfare agency? I might be interested in trying to target people who have self identified as liking cats and dogs right on. Then i decided, well, i might be very geographically focused, and i wouldn’t necessarily need the entire state, so i thought, well, let’s, see what the costs would be if i were to look at maybe two counties in new jersey, morris and somerset counties for people interested in cats and dogs turned out it came up to nine hundred eighty as the household count on that on that costs turned out to be one hundred fifty dollars. Now, how did you specify cats and dogs? There’s a open field where you can have a word interest category interest, there’s like a main interest. So when you’re when you’re looking at the main interests, you can look at things like arts. And entertainment. Uh, babies, children, uh, education just tryingto slipping through here, some of the ones that would be of interest to non-profits outdoor enthusiast, uh, photography, religion. Um, and then they had what they call us sub interest category. You can really drill down even further. And that’s where i got into looking for people who were interested in dogs and cats, for example, i see. Okay, that’s that could be you could have some fun with the subcategories studio going to break it down by ethnicity. Gender. Maria, how do you find all these free and a fee based? How do you how do you how do you find all these new resource is? Well, you know, usually they’re not sometimes they find may and this actually happens to be a situation where rick hilary from from the company reached out to me through lincoln. And, you know, we’ve talked about the power of lincoln for so here was a situation where he brought this particular product, my attention, and we’ve had several converse stations and back and forth about it. And, you know, i took a look at the test because you can actually just kind of play around with it as i did without paying anything at all. Okay, so that that website you want me to give you that? Yes, give it, but we’ll also put it on facebook and linkedin, right? Sure, though, that website is demographics, research, dot com okay, and what’s the earl for listselect uh, that that’s that’s where the starting point is that’s you there? Yeah, they actually give you ah! Pdf that kind of walk you through, how to use it. And they also give you the log in credentials so that you can log in and try and play around with it a bit way have to stop. We have to stop there, maria simple. You know her she’s, the prospect finder, and you’ll find her website at the prospect finder dot com. You’ll find her on twitter at maria simple, and you’ll find the two of us together. We’re going to be doing a chat and online chat hosted by the foundation center on march twenty first about prospect research it’s a two p, m eastern and my burning question is why i’m invited i don’t know they between the two of us, they think we’re both prospect research experts but between you and me, we know that you are. I’ll be there, tio, i’ll do color commentary or something. I don’t know we’re hearing me on, okay, but you can. I have a i have a couple things to contribute, but not as much as you, but you’ll find information about that on the foundation with center website it’s. March twenty first, two p m eastern. Thanks for being a guest, maria, thank you always a pleasure. Next week, juliet fund had more white space to your life she’s, a consultant and speaker, and she also is the daughter of candid cameras allen funt that’ll be fun. Also, scott koegler is back next week. He’s, our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. We’re all over the social web. You can’t make a click without smacking your head into tony martignetti non-profit radio, by the way, smacking your head in italian is sparkle a testa i learned that when i was in venice asking for directions to a bar once and someone said, sparkle a testa your head on the wall and then turn and make a left and there’s harry’s bar so it stayed with me, um, pinterest, slideshare even before last week, by the way, we were on pinterest in slideshare, itunes, facebook, youtube, twitter, linkedin, foursquare, wherever we’re connected, i thank you very much for being connected wherever it is that i see you. Thank you. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, and the social shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think you did a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Take it good! Hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me. Larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday night nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio, dot com every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights, nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Dahna
Tony’s guests this week:
Bill McGinley, president and CEO of The Association for Healthcare Philanthropy (AHP)
Nancy Johnson, senior consultant at Target Analytics
Gene Takagi and Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.comView Full Transcript
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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. My thoughts this week, of course, are with everybody affected by sandy up and down the northeast than into western new york, the finger lakes and ohio. My thoughts are with you, i am calling in from north carolina because i couldn’t get back home in time to do the show. So what? We have a show and we’re proceeding, i hope you’re with me last week. Oh, it would hurt me deeply tto learn that you had missed a conversation with janet eggers she’s, a senior vice president of products and marketing for blackbaud at their bb con conference last month, we talked about what’s coming in the non-profit technology market, special considerations for purchasing technology and leadership lessons that she learned from being a triathlete. Also gps global positioning. Scott scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news in our technology contributor, we talked about location based services that use the gps technology in your smartphone. Four square, instagram, yelp and facebook places are examples of sites that you can learn from your partner. With to get to know your donors and volunteers better this week grow your grateful patient program bill mcginley, president and ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy, hp and nancy johnson, senior consultant at target analytics, sat with me at the bb con conference to talk about health care, grateful patient fund-raising why these prospects are critical and very generous privacy concerns and how to start your relationship. Also, disaster relief charities want to help hurricane sandy victims, but in the rush to help, you can’t ignore the rules around private benefit needs assessment and documentation, you’ll be on the right path with our legal contributors, jean takagi and emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group between the guests on tony’s take two i have a bunch of sandy disaster relief organizations that are doing very good work, and i’ll share some of those. If you’re on twitter, you could be using the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us. You take a break and when we get back, we’ll go right into grow your grateful patient program stay with me! They didn’t think dick tooting getting dink dink dink dink you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. E-giving, you could joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Geever. Durney durney welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty twelve we’re in maryland, just outside washington, d c my guests are nancy johnson she’s, a senior consultant, target analytics, blackboard company, and bill mcginley, president and ceo association for healthcare philanthropy, both of you. Nancy bill, welcome, thanks for taking time on a busy day. Delighted fundez your seminar topic is best practices for successful healthcare fund-raising strategically grow your grateful patient program. Bill president, ceo of association for health careful answer. I’d like to get the articles right that got you surrounded. Details report. I like the articles. Why is a grateful patient program critical to healthcare? Fund-raising let’s start with basics in health care and our group, particularly those were representing providers, hospitals, medical centers, long term care, hospice and such. The group that is connected that has had an experience that has been touched by the provider is a very important group. They’re very generous, they are involved. They know what the organization is about, what it can provide. So there they are more generous, the average member of the public simply because they’ve had an experience with the institution they know what it’s like they are part of a major part of the family, which is the physicians, the employees, the governance, the executive, the trustees of the hospital, and grateful patients. They represent over fifty five percent of individuals that give healthcare so they’re essential for us and their big givers help me understand why they’re not unapproachable because of privacy laws. Well, they are very approachable, and privacy rules allow the health care provider access to demographic information, so names, addresses of patients are part of what we do internal for our fund-raising is perfectly acceptable. So it’s acceptable for the clinician to share with you development office is that right? Think the physician at the hospital, the nurse, the janitor can refer a name to the foundation for somebody who might be interested to get okay is perfectly acceptable in permissible under the law. And nancy, why don’t we start with some of the tips that you have for growing this very important grateful patient program? Fifty five percent of individual fund-raising to health care’s from these people. How do we get started? Absolutely well, one of the main objectives have to be able to find the people that are. In the hospital immediately so that the foundation can really approach, not approach them for it. I’m coming to say hello, i’m introducing you to the foundation and letting you know that our goal of the foundation is to increase the awareness of what we do to help raise more money. And so what we see is the opportunity to find the best people to make the right gift at the right time, and what we’re doing is identifying with people that are most capable as well as the people that are already connected. How do we start that conversation? Once we’ve identified people, how do we initiate conversation while they’re in the hospital? It’s a quick hello, i want to connect with you now, if you’re already a donor, i’ve been wanting to meet you. You’ve probably been wanting to meet me. We’ve maybe meditate events, we’ve we’re friends, so you would expect me to come by and say hello to you. So these people were starting with the premise that these are people who are already known through the hospital, oftentimes they are ok. Other times you’re a new prospect. A new patient, that’s just came to the hospital and what’s important is to let them understand and know that we have a foundation that will be working with them for the future. Okay, bill, what do you hear from fund-raising professionals in hospitals about making that initial contact? What kinds of responses are our patients willing to talk? Oh, very much so. And when our members are making these visits there rounding and they’re there in the room with a patient, one of the things that are offering to do is they’re they’re our contact for you, anyone that comes into a hospital to have a procedure that is very unique for the individual. It may be a bit routine for some of the providers are member, you know, really steps across that gap, providing for as a resource answering questions, someone they could turn to for communication to make sure that they’re comfortable, what with what they’re receiving and the kinds of things that they’re going to undergo an experience while they’re in the hospital, because it is a foreign land to anybody. Who’s, a patient who’s coming in for russian scary that can be absolutely it’s unknown and while again, it’s very routine for the providers in the sense that they lived there, they worked there. It is a unique experience for any patient is coming. Nancy, i took you on a slight aggression howto make contact once we’ve identified, but what’s your advice around doing the identification. Current patients absolutely. We have a process that is totally automated, so no human hands touching the data way. Use the black boy as blackwater target analytics. Many of our clients use razors edge as their donor management system. So many of their donors are already no one, and we compare they’re the names of the new admits two there database as well as to wealth program, and we’re putting a radio, letting them know the best prospects for major gifts, the best prospects for annual e-giving and that allows them then to make a decision if they should go visit okay, and or put them into an annual solicitation lorts joining and something even better. Yet, if we’re visiting someone that we know that is a major gift donor. And maintaining their interest in the programs and their opportunity to support activities that are beneficial for others in their this is an opportunity for the foundation to reach out to people with them in the hospital. So i look at it is they’re coming to visit you there, there if you don’t reach out and say hello to them after you’ve had a relationship for years, not really good. I want to say at least a hello it’s not going to be a long visit, but i’m reaching out to you. What if it is someone who’s who’s due to the hospital? Not part of the family, not someone you’ve known for years still appropriate, too. Greet them while they’re in the hospital? Absolutely, i believe that most people when they’re in the hospital, they’re experiencing something unique buy-in it may be the first time they’ve known about the hospital, they become part of the health care family there and by reaching out to them they expect it’s, a buffalo here here’s i discount for gift shop or maybe i’m goingto leave the newspaper behind for you. I come in with a friendly face, i’m not bringing in needles. And i’m not taking blood from you and it’s. A quick high. Okay, okay. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot, or or a h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll durney i found that interesting. What nancy said in the session earlier today was that these people are coming to your home. They’re coming to the hospital are home, they’re coming into our facility. Ten there are any experience you have in the hospital there are there five, ten, fifteen people that air in and out that air touching your life during that process and tohave one focal point that could be helpful that, you know, you could turn to if you’ve got questions or a spot that you can go to a person, you could go to facilitate communication and make sure it’s clear among all these services that are being provided is very much appreciated by patients. That’s what we find so you’re encouraging the fundraiser to ask, act as a resource? Yes, from times they do on dh it’s quite appreciated, as you know. All right. So then, after we’ve identified we’ve initiated contact bill what’s what’s another strategy for growing this program. Well, that’s part of what we were talking about today, there are different levels of grateful freight patient programs at the very basic level, you find that contact that call being made that introduction and it may be sixty or ninety days later where we’re looking at that individual and deciding is this someone we wantto make an appeal to our reach out to bout some program or service that we’re offering where their donation can help someone else? Is it someone who’s contributed in the past or who has the capacity to do more? Do we want to put them way want to put an effort in front of them or an opportunity in front of them as a major donor, where they can make a significant difference because of their contribution to the community and, you know, that’s very basic there others where you’re doing the analysis in the analytics, if you will, you’re assessing wealth management capacity so that when you talk with someone, you develop a relationship, you clarify their interests and also the level of what you believe they can support a particular activity in helping others. Now, nancy, you’ll have to forgive me because i’m going to ask bill about what some advice for hospital may not have reasonscall so there are some way to walk away. I don’t want to have a conversation, but i’m just thinking of our audience is small and midsize charities, and there might be smaller hospital. It doesn’t have reasons aid xero identifying you wanna do it right? Well, i will tell you. Okay, identifying grateful patients. We often look we’ve compared to their database no matter what it is, and so doesn’t have they don’t have to be a razors that juicer. The ideas were helping them identify grateful patients and look into the patients that air there so that they’re contributing to their experience. So it’s a step just that they would have to be a mechanism for sharing the information from from no, i don’t know if it’s missions exclusions. It comes from admissions. Typically it kind of sermon ambitions. And then it’s submitted and and no one really has to touch it. It’s, elektronik lee done. We screen it, and then the results are back within ninety minutes so that the foundation can decide. Okay, who’s the best person to go visit this oversignt bilich and our members are clearly using razors, edges of tools. And one of the best advantages of this as a tool is simply that expands our members capability beyond it. Maybe multiple be able. To multiply the impact, one person can have two, twice a ce much three times as much because it is some of it’s automated but it’s more instantaneous than than operating off of written records comparisons that you’re making relative to wealth management to an individuals in the hospital or who has been discharged is instantaneous, as opposed to trying to make all those connections in your head. So this truly, really expands our members capacity, forgetting to more donors this right on that’s, that’s, invaluable. Okay, well, do you have specific advice for smaller hospitals, health care facilities that whether they’re using razor’s edge or not isn’t an advantage to be a smaller, maybe community hospital? Well, you know, it’s it’s so much like any everything you’ve heard around the world all fund-raising is local, and it is individual in many respects and again razors age is a tool enables that capacity if you don’t have razors, eggs, there are some other alternatives and things you could do all the way back to when i started, when it was, you know, index cards in a shoebox, but it’s, that kind of approach, so there are things in between certainly. Razor’s edge is sophisticated, and really, the value is really an expanding capability. But there are other ways you could do that. Part of it is more manpower, which is hard to get in smaller organizations. Part of it is a process and dedication to that process every day, no matter what the elements are that you put in place so you can make it work. That may not be quite as effective without some of these tools, but it’s still gonna work. Okay, so the smaller community, when i’m familiar with a smaller community hospital, shouldn’t avoid grateful patient program. No, not it all so quickly. If your foundation executive this fund-raising is part of your obligation, your purpose and it’s within the health care community. These are institutionally related foundations to the hospital, right? They’re not out raising money for the you know something else in the community focusedbuyer hospital? Absolutely. Okay, honey. Another area that we all thought blackbaud way want to be able to help all sizes of none. So we eat. Tapestry is a wonderful solution. That is many times used for the smaller community hospital. See tapestries at a cloud based. Is it ok? And so i don’t think we know history tells us we’ve worked together for many, many years that many of the hospitals use razors edge that it like you say some of the smaller, newer hospitals, maybe they don’t need the sophistication, and they have way have a wonderful opportunity for them to use a tapestry let’s talk about some other advice around building back to building this grateful patient program. Nancy what what, what, what what further advice did you give him? Your seven? Well, each hospital is unique. And when they started looking at what makes the program different, it’s getting buy-in from the whole health care community from the top all the way to the to the janitor that’s in the room with someone the foundation needs to be more than the organization of the part of the organization that says, hey, do you want to be, how much are you going to give to the employee program this year? We want to make sure that the foundation is connecting with the nurse is the people that are front line with patients and making sure that we’re hearing you need to stop in and have a visit. Kayman we need to make sure that we’re introducing grateful patient programs that can enhance all the different areas of the hospital so that everyone’s understanding those programs and bringing the community together because really it’s all about the services that were providing to these cubine what’s your advice about getting getting clinicians involved in fund-raising first, they’re busy, my my what i hear and my experience in doing some plant e-giving consulting for hospitals is docks are typically well, i don’t know a good number of doc’s doctors are not willing to partner really with fund-raising with development office for the foundation, what’s your advice for sort of breaking down those walls, i think when you really start involving the whole team and you have a new approach and it may be a totally new approach, you have to think outside of what you have done in the past, health care is we’re having to raise more dollars every year, and when you’re asked to raise more dollars with less, you’ve got to use the right tech what’s what’s into approach help us help the audience understand what what’s one new approach they go to their their doctors by implementing this information so that i can focus within ninety minutes and be able to be next to someone and introducing all the good work we do that makes it takes the guesswork out of it. It allows me to be more focus, and then it also allows doctors to have opportunity to refer people to us and a system in place so that they know as a team we’re working together. Will you have you have advice for breaking down those walls, getting into those characters who are often unwilling it’s, not just the doctors you’re talking about building a culture of philanthropy and awareness throughout throughout the community, right? You do that, you do that. You do that with the orientation, with new and ongoing employees that you have. You do that in the training opportunities with the nurses and with practitioners and such that you’re talking about philanthropy or letting know about the foundation with the physicians, they’re human beings, too. You need to embrace them the way you do others, and there are programs and activities that could be very supportive of areas that they are interested in, either in their specialty orin pieces of equipment. Or things that are going to make their delivery of care much hyre to their patients, so sometimes it has to be very specific for helping them to see what the foundation could do for them if they’re willing. Tto partner and i mentioned that family of donors, the physicians are large portion of that, right it’s not every physician, but it’s, the ones that turn on to see the fact that getting involved this way, and even being philanthropic myself, which, if i do it through plan giving or some other vehicles, can benefit me and directly, you know, that has a meaningful impact on my patients and that’s where doctors focus it’s all about them and their patients seems to me so if we could bring it down to the patient care level, the benefits of working with the foundation, making those clear and one one other element that struck me is that in that culture of philanthropy, what you want to get it too is a point in the overall institution that this isn’t something that’s nice to have. This is something that’s essential that needs to be elevated to the strategic level, the planning of the whole so that the executives on the hospital side are learning to plan for and depend upon and demand that philanthropy be a major part, their business, and what they’re trying to do with it has to come from leadership, right, creating a culture and and we see in our benchmarking service that we do with the standards where you have the ceo of the hospital involved in active way in, you know, signing letters in being president, making some of the calls with you as appropriate, you’re getting a much better result in a much better return on the dollars that are being raised, because donors want to know that there have any impact, and the important people in this business are aware of what they’re doing. And bill, i think we’ve seen that change over the years. The two of us sitting in these seats have watched healthcare philanthropy changed enormously. Wey have to leave it there. Thank you. Nancy johnson, senior consultant with target analytics and bill mcginley, president, ceo association for healthcare philanthropy, thanks very much for being guest. Thank you. You don’t know what you want. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of become twenty twelve. We’ll be back with additional guests. I, you’re here further seconds, stay with us, my thanks to nancy johnson and bill mcginley and all the people at bebe con. It was a pleasure to be there, and i have more interviews from b become twenty twelve coming for you. Right now. We take a break when we return. It’s, tony, take two, and then gene and emily disaster relief. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s, time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower. We’ll discuss what you’re born, teo you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me very sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower, radio, dot com every time i was a great place to visit both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven, it will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Time now for tony’s steak, too. I have a lot of ways that you can help hurricane sandy victims throughout the country because, of course it was not only the northeast, not only new york, that was that was hurt, but the hurricane then you know, from new york city went into western new york and upstate, into the finger lakes region and then into ohio. So nationally there’s the american red cross. Um, you can donate at red cross dot or gq, or you can text red cross two, nine zero, nine nine, nine, and you’ll be giving ten dollars, to their disaster relief fund, including sandy. Red cross is also looking for volunteers, so if you’re able to volunteer red cross dot or ge is the place feeding, feeding america, they have a lot of food and emergency supplies. Water uh, that they’re e-giving throughout the disaster zone and to donate to them, go to feeding america. Dot org’s save the children is also working to provide relief to families and their children metoo they are at save the children dot or ge craig newmark, who has been a guest on the show twice uh he’s, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects and he’s uh, he’s matching donations up to twenty five thousand dollars for sandy victims and he’s doing that through crowd rise. So to give to that fund-raising dot com flash sandy relief. And when you go there, a picture of craig pops up. If you want to be more local in in new york, there are a lot of blood drives. I read hundreds of blood drives that were canceled because of the hurricane throughout new york state. So now we need blood. And if you want to donate blood in the new york city area it’s, new york sorry. And why blood center dot or ge? If you happen to be a techie in new york, you have tech skills. Um, new york tech meet up and new work city are organizing volunteers that have technology skills to help with relief efforts to help new york area businesses and non-profits get their technology back up and running. For that, you can go to bitterly dot slash hurricane tech volunteers. So that’s, uh, which place is that you can give time or money too, in support of people that are really in need throughout the northeast and a pinto, i said, north northern new york state and ohio, and on my block this week is a post called researcher bias in smelters planned e-giving study. Delta company did a a survey of potential planned e-giving donors. These people, they believe, are potential plan giving donors, but i detail in my in my block that still, the company also makes its money in large part bye selling print materials, direct mail materials, no website and consulting services for for outreach. So to me, it’s in there, broad corporate interests to have a bigger base of, of playing, giving prospects than we traditionally have had, and that, to me, creates conflict. They want to sell their services, and they’re encouraging charities to look beyond the what’s. Been the traditional prospect pools in terms of age and boiled e-giving history, and that i detail at on the block again. The post is called researcher bias in altars. Planned e-giving survey and my blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com that is tony, take two for friday, november two forty six show of the year with me now jean and emily. Jean emily, are you there? Hi, tony. This is jean and least beside me, but it’s going to be me alone today. And we hope that you and your family and all your loved ones are doing well. Our thoughts and prayers for everybody affected by the hurricane. Thank thank you very much, jane. I know you’re familiar with natural disasters being in the san francisco area. Yeah, we certainly did. Emily is there she’s just holding your hand or what? You’re not going to die. She pretty much is holding my hand and promising, tell me what to say. Okay, of course. Jean takagi and emily chan, they’re firm is the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo-sage which you’ll find at attorney for non-profits dot com and jean jean’s blawg is gene. I don’t have it in front of me because i’m remote right now. Remind people what you’re what you’re bloggers, please. Sure. It’s just the non-profit lob log non-profit law blawg dot com and emily is the contributor to that as well. Um, so we’re talking about disaster relief, obviously timely. If a charity wants to do something, they’re so moved, maybe they’re in of a neighborhood that was that’s affected or whether they are or not. Can they just start, eh? Sandy disaster relief fund that’s a great question, tony, and, you know, charities are often the centres of their communities, especially in small communities and it’s really great to see communities pull together and non-profits wanting to help, but sometimes the non-profits mission is not aligned, oh are consistent with providing disaster relief. They might be in existence for doing some others types of services, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t help, but it does mean that they may have to take some steps before they help, and one of the things that they need to do is they need to change their mission. So they’ve got to make sure that on their website, on their marketing materials, and particularly if they’ve got a mission statement in their articles of incorporation or their by-laws to change that, to expand it, to be being able to provide those disaster relief services that they want to provide for pete’s sake. So if i want to do something, i can’t just do it the next morning, i have to look at my articles of incorporation first, yeah, you’ve got to get that board together and take a in an emergency action txtgive that that mission statement to the extent that it is constrained by your articles, so you’ve gotta operate consistent with your governing documents. So you’ve got to change those if there is that statement in there, that’s one of the reasons why we like to make sure that the articles purpose statement, they called a certificate of inc in new york, it’s not so specific that you can’t uh, uh, let your organization of all take on things like this in the future and then a tip for revisiting your mission statement for all non-profits so is there a phrase that is safe that is brought enough that you recommend it doesn’t have to say hurricane relief, right? Absolutely. So you can say we’re providing charitable services in whatever area you want to focus on on dh leave, it is broadly is that in your articles, and then you could define it more specifically on your website and on marketing materials like grant applications, but when you decide to engage in a new activity like disaster relief, and that really goes outside of what you’re doing. Perhaps you were providing music education, you know, when you really go outside of that pounds, you’ve got to make sure that you don’t use prior donors funds, which were dedicated towards music education in our example. But you’re using nufer funds once you’ve changed your mission statement to engage in that disaster relief activity. Okay, onda of course, once you start collecting funds for a certain purpose, then you have to use them for that purpose. That’s correct. You can’t then if if the if the disaster is is overcome, you can’t switch your funds back to music, right? So the money that you resent you raised for disaster relief, you’ve gotta make sure that they’re focused on that. And we had some issues with that after nine eleven. And so are some other duvette actors where organizations felt that they had expended enough money in that area and wanted divert the rest of the money into other areas beyond that could be a real danger. All right. Is emily passing you notes right now? She always passes me notice. Okay. Okay. Stop it, emily. Genes genes good on his own. He knows what he’s doing. Okay, so once you then expand the mission statement, if you need to, you also have to inform the irs. Is that right? Yeah, although you don’t have to do that right away. So you can engage in the disaster relief activities, which usually you’ve got to do pretty quickly. But you can report the change in your activities and the change in your mission to the irs when you finally form nine, ninety for the year in which you changed those activities. So for example, you wouldn’t have to file if you were going, you know, finally for two thousand twelve until may two thousand thirteen. Okay, okay. That doesn’t have to be immediate. I just realized i neglected to send live listener love during tony. Take two. And we have a lot of listeners abroad. Tokyo, taipei in taiwan and yung yung in korea and send gen china welcome live listening love to all those foreign countries and also to philadelphia, which is not quite as far into me. I live in new york, but philadelphia’s not quite as far in as those other. Cities, um, pardon me for that, but jean but i have to send my listeners love. Sorry, uh, that’s great. All right, so once so, then once you have expanded your mission statement, if necessary, then is there any limit to what kinds of relief you can provide? Well, there are so you’re still restricted by what we described on our last couple shows private benefit issues. Oh, man, private benefit again? Yeah. You know, charities exists to provide a public benefit, and they can’t be operated to promote private interests. So you’ve got to be careful. So we can’t give a million bucks away. Teo, somebody who was barely hurt by the hurricane that would that would not be appropriate. You’ve also got to be worried about conflicts of interest so forgiving to board members or toe officers of the organization and not in an objective matter, not as part of a charitable class of individuals affected or with preferential treatment to those insiders. That would be wrong, but we certainly can provide funds, services or good ensure that victims have basic necessities like food and clothing and housing and medical assistance and things like that. What can you define a class of people that you want to help. Yeah, i mean that’s, something you should do. So you should say, you know, this is good for business and not only legal reasons, but are we just going to help anybody affected by the hurricane? Are we goingto, you know, really look at financial need? Are we going toe not look a financial need, and we don’t have to. We learned after nine eleven that we can even help communities that don’t have financial disadvantages, but that were hurt badly by the hurricane and or any disaster and weaken give emergency relief so emergency relief services can be given without a needs assessment. Otherwise we want to determine what type of needs we’re looking for. Is it financial need? Is it medical? Need it, you know, for disabled individuals within a given area? Are we goingto limited geographically all sorts of things that we need to target our mission towards? And then when we get this whole pool of charitable class members that want our attention, we have to figure out what type of resources we have and how we decide who to give it to the needs assessment. Is something that’s required or it’s just very smart to do well, it’s it’s really required if you’re going to be required to go the scorning assistance yeah, it’s not so required if you’re just providing emergency assistance. So for giving out blankets and food and shelter in the next couple weeks for the hurricane victims. There’s no needs assessment required for that, you know, it’s pretty obvious who’s in need. Okay, but if we’re gonna be e-giving ongoing, you know, rental assistance payments and that’s going to last for several, several months past the hurricane, then we’re going to think about why are we just giving it to a select few individuals? And how did we choose them? We’ve got has some objective in good faith criteria there. What about helping businesses? We’ve been talking about people. Yeah, that’s actually possible, and some people, you know, don’t realize that that’s possible, but sometimes business owners are financially needy, and that would be okay to provide businesses in that case and otherwise they might be distressed or or to come back community deterioration or lessen the burden of government. And we’ve seen, you know, from the west coast we’ve seen the photos of some of the the impact of the hurricane on the seaboard, especially, and those air communities where, you know they’re not going to recover unless their businesses recover their small businesses. And the small business owners need assistance to get back in there. Otherwise, the community is not going to get back. And so that’s a case where non-profits can actually provide assistance, the businesses as well. Okay, but go and going back to people. We can’t define a class of people that, uh, illegal in or, you know, impermissible in other circumstances just because we happen to know that they were particularly burdened by whatever the, whatever, whatever the disaster is. Oppcoll well, i mean, you could certainly define your class how you want it. But it’s got to be again, pretty objective. So that you’re not, you know, favoring people who either don’t really have a need or favoring insiders of the charity over others. Okay. We can’t target this too specific individuals, but we can certainly say community’s, though, right? Yeah, and it could be a small neighbourhood community that you’re targeting that was especially impacted or where the charity is an existence and it’s kind of the hub of that community, or or we could have more expansive criteria. Okay? Bonem now, so the people need to fit into the the people you’re helping need to fit into that terrible class. As he said, um, a little more about conflict, potential, conflicts of interest? Sure, well, you know, if you’ve got a board of directors of a charity of charities should have and they’re determining who’s going to get aid from the charity, we certainly don’t want them to benefit themselves, though there others, even if they’ve been affected by the disaster, they might be able, teo, be eligible to be considered among the charitable class of individuals and so they might get some benefit, but it would be incidental, and they should certainly not be making decisions on benefiting themselves. They would have to abstain if they’re part of that charitable class on who to pick that will receive help. I mean it. Would be nice if charity’s could give help everybody, but obviously resource is air limited, so they’ve got a decide who’s most impacted or who they want to help the most in line with their mission. And board members and officers of the organization have to really be careful because they’re in power positions of making those types of decisions that that’s the conflict of interest issue. And sometimes when you have outsiders who are part of the selection committee, you know that can create more trust if you get community leaders who are not on the board but involved in selecting who might be able to receive relief that might give some, you know, assurance to the community that they’re not going to only benefit themselves the board of the charity, that is, but it also creates additional conflicts of interest so that we make sure that those people aren’t benefiting themselves, thie outside selection committee members or their families or their business partners or route, you know, and, you know, business relations. So we just have to be careful about those things i see and that’s consistent what we’ve talked about in the past. That’s absolutely right, we have just a minute before break gene it. Would it be permissible for a charity to say that the charitable class they want to help volunteers to that charity? People who have been volunteering with them in the past? Yes, longest that’s a signature una, significantly large enough and indefinite class of individuals it’s going to be okay. So if we’ve got, you know, one hundred volunteers and we’re open to taking more volunteers and we’re going to help our volunteers that’s going to be okay, especially if they if they, you know again, not preferentially board members and officers of the organizations who are volunteers. Okay, but if it’s too small a classic like five people who are volunteers, we can’t sir, you know that just those five people is a charitable class that would be impermissible private benefit. All right, we’re going to take a break team takagi stays with us. We’ll keep talking about disaster relief, and i hope you do, too. Talking. 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Got more live listener love to salt lake city and moscow and dallas, texas also south bend, indiana thanks for joining us live listener love to all those cities, jean what if you collect more money than there is need? Now you’ve you’ve said, you’re specifically collecting it for this purpose. It’s not needed anymore. What do you do? Yeah, that’s really tricky tony so one of the things that’s kinda boyd that situation. So you want to be careful when you read to find your mission? The only way that happens is usually when you defined your charitable class so small that you know you, you raised enough money to help them out through the air. Emergencies on dh you’ve decided you’ve got extra money left at that point, you’ve gotta operate as close as you can t to the charitable purpose for which those monies were collected, donors typically don’t have a right to get that money back, so, you know, you could go to court, and we figure out what to do with that extra money and people could bring you into court, too, to decide what to do with that. That happened with nine eleven i don’t want that to happen, so be very careful of that. You can usually find your way around it as long as you haven’t made your mission and your charitable class so so tiny and specific that that that it becomes a knish you later? Okay, but what do you do with the money? Well, you’re going to use it for close to that mission is possible, and if it’s if it’s really outside of that, then you’re gonna have to go to court and get them tio follow through an approved where that money is going to go and it’s called a sight prey issue. But i didn’t want to get into jargon jail, but i suppose they just have so i pray i like i like how that spell right? See why pr ess, isn’t it? That’s your sigh, pray okay, go ahead, go ahead, tell us, what’s, i pray is show off. Well, i pray it is, of course, latin and lawyers like to use it to impress other people on dh when i literally mean like you’re doing right now, james, i think it is near it’s possible or as near as i may be possible. And i think it’s latin. It may also actually be french coming from the old french language. So it’s often used where people have designated their gifts their charitable gift to certain purposes, and that purpose is no longer required or becomes impossible to fulfill. So that might be, for example, the eradication of polio which the march of dimes had encountered early on. And they needed to change their mission. Later they decided to otherwise polio had, you know, essentially been eradicated with jonas salk back scene on dh. They changed to birth defects. So i pray, is a very common doctrine used when charitable purposes have been completed or impossible to complete further. That sounds like a lot of trouble. Could we give the money that’s excess to another charity that does the type of work that we had raised the money for? Yes, certainly. If they can, if they can, if they khun do those type of activities and we no longer can then that that certainly is permissible. So long, focal donor’s intent and what the charity had said the money would be used for is still used for those purposes, you know. Okay, so there’s a dozen easier way out than going to court. All right, right. So long it again. You didn’t pick such a fine mission that nobody nobody else could do it either. Yeah. All right. We have just about two minutes before we have to go. Uh, let’s say a little more about documentation. We talked about the articles of incorporation amending those and we talked about the nine, ninety in that year. What else is required? Well, you know, what you should be requiring is the type of assistance that you provided, whether it be financial assistance or in-kind good blankets, food, housing, whatever the costs associated to the charity with providing that assistance, the purpose of why you’re giving that assistance and why you’re giving it to those individuals that are receiving the assistance over others. If the board was not making those determinations about who gets and who doesn’t get on dh, there was some selection committee. How did you choose that selection committee? On what criteria did they use for dispersing the aid you want? Also document the names and the addresses of the river citians of the financial aid that you’ve given or significant non financial. Aid given again, this wouldn’t be necessary for emergency relief, or you’re just giving food and shelter and blankets and things. But if it’s ongoing gauge, you wanted to make sure you know who those recipients are and you want to disclose that either there was no relationship between the recipients of aids and an insider, a director officer or substantial contributor to the organization our thirty document that i have one last thing, tony, make sure donors don’t hey don’t earmark their donations towards specific individuals that’s not allowed, so i can’t give a gift and say give it to my uncle, who got affected by the hurricane that we’re not allowed fifteen seconds. Where do we document all this is just inboard mitts you khun documented in board minutes or any sort of organizational document that you you hold and that the organization can attest it is the policy or the practice of the organization. Jean takagi, his firm is non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco and you’ll find him at non-profit law blawg. Thank you very much, jane. Thanks, tony. My thanks. Also to regina walton, live listener love going tow her in san francisco and she also very helpful in compiling the list of agencies that i had for tony’s take to regina, thank you very much. I have a new fund-raising fundamentals podcast out with the chronicle of philanthropy, it is how to recruit and motivate volunteers for your events. You’ll find it on the chronicle website, and you’ll also find fund-raising fundamentals on itunes next week. Career advice for your entry level and junior employees jonathan lewis produces career advice videos with leaders in non-profit social change uh, he his video interviews are free and they’re short, and i think they’re valuable as you lied and mentor twentysomethings who want to make a difference in the world, he and i are going to listen to, and he’ll comment on a couple of clips. One is called mentoring for dummies, and another one is called shut the hell up and also next week, maria semple returns our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder has resource is for researching privately held companies. You know, she always has a ton of free and low cost sites and ideas, and next week will be no exception. You can find us on linkedin reveling in group you can offer ideas for the shows and continue the conversation with guests on linkedin. We’re on facebook, you know that i haven’t said it recently, but that’s because you already know it. You can listen to non-profit radio, live or archives. The archive is on itunes at non-profit radio dot net on twitter you can follow me, use the show’s hashtag non-profit radio and you can also follow me on foursquare we can connect there wishing you good luck the way performers do around the world. We have left estonia, estonia is behind us so from estonia go west across the baltic sea and you land in sweden where they lightly kick performers in the bud before they go onstage. No hands allowed on ly a kick, please and when they’re doing it, they will say, breathe at the bend freak at ben, which means break a bone so i guess sweet don’t have femurs and to be his invidious, so just break any bone in your body is fine. You don’t have to be specific to the leg, so i’m wishing you breed at ben. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. I’m leaving, which is our line. Producer assistant producer janice taylor is sending me text telling me when the time is coming up. Thank you very much, general shows social media’s, by regina walton, of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get anything. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on so speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking dot com.
Tony’s guests this week:
Jeff Sobel, principal of Jeffrey Sobel Consulting
Charlie Gordy, director of planned giving for Harvard Law School & Margaret Holman, principal of Holman Consulting
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.comView Full Transcript
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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for friday, december ninth, two thousand eleven we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me last week for so me. For pg social media for planned giving kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo, shared her research on the best use of social media properties to support your plan, giving program videos, testimonials, blogging, technical information and more. And emily chan, half of our regular legal team from the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco, talked about political campaign activity and election earing what can your non-profit do? And how does the irs decide if you’ve crossed the line? What can your employees say under the first amendment this week? We’re fund-raising throughout your life cycle. What does fund-raising look like in these stages of a non-profits life brainchild, startup, adolescence, maturity, stagnation and declined? How do you avoid the last two jeff sobel principle of jeffrey sobel consulting shares his insights. This was recorded at westchester, a f p s national philanthropy day and then marrying major and planned gif ts are these two? Compatible. What does their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie gordy, director of planned giving for harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home and consulting, reveal how to make this a match made in heaven. This interview i pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning at tony’s take to roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. My block this week is the next-gen charity interviews from craig newmark, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects to neil strauss, who went undercover in a secret society of pickup artists. There are takeaways for your non-profit from all these interviews, and i’ll talk about a few of them on tony’s. Take to live, tweeting the show this week. Use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. Right now, we take a break, and then right after the break, we’ll start the pre recorded interview fund-raising throughout your life cycle. So stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Oppcoll hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day with the edith may conference centre in briar cliff manner, new york, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter. Joining me now is jeff sobel. He is founder of jeffrey sobel consulting and his unconference topic is non-profit life cycles and culture development strategies for each stage. Jeff sobel, welcome. Thank you. Happy to be here. It’s. A pleasure. What is? What are the development life cycles? Oh, sure. Well, there’s non-profit life’s like, well, just like sort of for-profit business non-profits also have ah, very natural life cycle to them. I have to say, over the last couple of years, those have sped up because of technology. So we’re seeing a compression exactly time compression. So really, the first life cycle is the start of phase or the not to start it, but the brainchild phase or the creation on dh for many people, it’s something that never comes out because it’s something they think about, they think there’s a great issue that they can tackle, but they never verbalize it, and he never sort of formalize it. But for the few people who do yeah, and there’s more, more people who were doing it, they put that out there on because of technology and the ability to get people together and formalized people. And also the back office stuff can be done much quicker. So that’s why? Quicker and cheaper? Exactly. The expenses is almost never minimal. The amount of stuff did you khun doing? Cloud and social media? You’re going, you’re going your office running in a week. Exactly. It’s it’s, it’s amazing. So what happened? You know, you don’t even need an office. You’re doing it out of your bedroom. Exactly. Okay? And the other the beauty of it is is that you can learn quickly whether it’s going to take a hold or you can say okay, we can move on from that idea. Okay, the brainchild let’s move on and then we’ll come back. So after you get through the idea and you verbalize it, everybody you get to the start up phase where you say, okay, now i’ve got a sort of developed by-laws i’ve actually got a file for a five twenty three i’ve got to get the board members together usually boardmember zehr close friends at this time people, you know what friends and family have been recruited exactly? You bring everybody on and in the close network what’s inside your tent on, and then you start figuring out, okay, programmatically how well, you know, the idea that the social impact that we want to bring or the particular idea that we’re developing what’s the program we’ll look like. So this also can happen a lot faster. Now you have to sort of do your research to figure out. Are there other groups doing what you’re doing in that space? We’ll talk about that, you know, we’re talking about some of the trend analysis and doing your own research, but let’s, move on to the next phase short fired-up once you once you get past the startup, you’ve gotto sort of get into what we call the adolescents and growth rays, so you basically become a teenager, you sort of. Now you’ve got beyond just your friends and family on the board, you’re not usually your first funder and multiple funders at this time. Most organizations, fifty percent or seventy percent is coming from either one or two major funders, which again, family and friends exactly where a big foundation who loves the idea wants to be in that space wants to develop a model. Usually these things are still in the model face, so i’m going to develop something they say is going to work here. Westchester, if it takes off, will branch out to new york and new jersey embarrasses identity after after adolescence and growth. So then you become what we call a maturity middle age. You’re already sure there’s a thoughtless growth phase is something that then you become a mature agency. You’ve got your legs. All right, you’re actually operating. You usually got an office of used nowadays? Not necessarily, but you have a space that people can sort of connect to. People know about to program fund-raising looks very different fund-raising you start have staff, you organize more like structurally, actually. But you actually have an organizational chart that you can live by and actually is reality. The founders usually probably still involved in the early part of this, but usually that person’s phasing out or somehow still connected, but bringing on more of ah non-profit professional to be the executive director someone who’s had a career in non-profit um and then you grow in your boards are you know you have professionals on your board. Okay? People have different skillsets let’s. Go so let’s, go back to the early the brainchild way. Have ah, this business. You mind if i just mentioned one real quick thing? No, i don’t mind. Okay, go ahead. Uh, the next phase and what isn’t face-to-face? Oh, i thought it was true. And act like you actually four faces. One phase we never like to talk about. But then the last phase is what we call stagnation. Sure, agencies fall backwards and they go into what we call stagnation phase for whatever reasons could be a funding reason. It could be because their programs are not needed anymore, and they have to sort of reinvent themselves. Probably the most famous example of this is the march of dimes. They were started and they solved the issue of but the disease that they were trying to work on. And then they reinvented themselves specifically around early childhood and birth defects in various things like that. So, you know, agencies at that point, the last piece is, unfortunately, agencies can decline and shut down if they go. Down to the piece, this is when we don’t like to talk about it when we don’t like to talk to happen, but it does happen and there’s a way to do it appropriately. Okay, so let’s, just see what we have time for now, because i i do get a lot of enquiries about from people who are i have an idea, they’re passionate, they want to do something burning that isn’t a ce far as they know isn’t being done or isn’t being done well there, so we’re back in the brainchild phase. What’s your advice there around development strategies. Well, i think there’s a couple different things. One to do your homework and research to see who else is in that space. If there’s nobody else in that space, obviously, then i think you can move forward. If not, you want to go talk to those other organizations. You might be able to collaborate and they save yourself enormous. Exactly their enormous administrative and fund-raising i know everybody. There’s, there’s, sort of an eagle at play and everybody wants that sort of be the founder and head of a new five o once i can do it. Better exactly, and if you don’t have the personal wealth to fundchat in a very difficult thing to do and the first i find the first thing that can sort of temper that enthusiasm is the irs thie application exactly non-profit exempt status after you’ve been through the right, the state inc exactly, the irs will help you put the brakes on right with their twelve to eighteen month process. Probably the best thing that you could do early on is have a strategy session, bring in experts on people that you know, that you trust that will be as honest as they can with you. People are our objective outsiders as well, sort of a focus group ten to twelve people bring the idea to them, get their feedback. What did they see? Do they talk about other organizations who are doing the same thing? Are they you know, they see this as something that’s funda ble people will like isn’t needed, you know, obviously, just because you think it’s needed doesn’t always messes and everybody else is going to see thie importance behind it. So doing an early focus group, you know, not keeping the ideas if you’re proud of the idea, or you think the idea really has can resonate, then vocalize it as soon as possible, share what as many people as possible, see what i guess they hastily used the phrase, but see what sticks to the wall and get that out as soon as possible, because then you’ll learn you’ll. If it’s going to take off those early conversations in those early strategy sessions, those of the people are going to help you formalize it. Not everybody, but some are going to hell. Wow, i love what he’s doing or she’s doing. I’m going to lend my support. We couldn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get you thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. No. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that calm mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. In this brainchild phase, we do need to put ego aside exactly it’s it’s a hard thing to dio it’s only human nature, but i think the way, the way i always preface things that people says, i personally think this would be a great idea. I’ve thought about it. This is my thinking’s, but i need everybody else to tell me what what is reality and have you if you’re good about listening to reality from others, it’ll save you an enormous amount of time because everything else that we’re going to talk about you could avoid if you don’t start a nonprofit but end up collaborating with with one that already exists that doing something related or close, right, i given example just real quickly, we just got contact we could contacted about this all the time, and i would say ninety percent of the time we get contacted, that person should be talking to another non-profit and they could bring that energy to that non-profit already created, and it could be a program developed within that and often running in. Lots of people are being helped and of that night, so go ahead, just everyone, some other is something new on dh? It has merit to wanting to develop a new organization. We’re working someone contest the other day who is a volunteer firefighter who happened to be very successful in business on wanting to develop something very specific for firefighters prevent heart attacks. It’s a highest rate of lye fire fighters die. Okay, so there’s a whole new program. He’s developing he’s. You know, within his first six months of the developing the idea he’s doing that, you know, we’re trying to counsel him through the right steps to see if this will resonate. Will it work and various things like that? So more times than not, though i would get back to your initial point is, if you put your eagle to the side and really get down to the facts, you could really decide whether it’s something you should be working with someone else or setting up that new non-profit in your experience, that ninety percent that ought to be talking to another non-profit how many of them actually do go talk to another non-profit about collaborating? I would say about half of those. Alright, okay, but it’s not that bad. And i would say unfortunately, most of them continue forward no matter what, i try to talk him off, go do what they’re supposed to do, and then they stop doing what they’re supposed to do, and you go off on their own anyway. Well, i think there’s something convinced them, you know, if someone lets give example, if it’s an entertainer or let’s say, it’s, somebody who’s been very successful as a hedge fund manager on investment world or some other business, right? They always feel like, hey, what we did in the business world, we could bring that expertise in the nonprofit world, and that was something that i could definitely say it was somewhat true, let’s say fifteen, twenty years ago, but the way non-profits operate now, you know, it’s very hard for someone who says, hey, just because i ran a successful coat company or some others hyre business doesn’t mean i can run a successful non-profit and have, you know, huge impact and changed on my own there’s just so much around compliance and regulation, you’re you’re starting a corporation. This is a non profit corporation, but it isn’t. It is incorporated, it has to adhere to a lot of those corporate rules as well as go find money. Well, the money parts really hard, you know, there’s so many non-profits in the space of trying to raise money. So you’re just, you know, you think your idea will cut through all that cloud and all that clutter of everybody else, but it won’t there’s ego and impossible. All right, let’s, move on. If we haven’t persuaded people that the brainchild faces really where they should stop and maybe ah, latto ally themselves with another non-profit if we haven’t persuaded them of that let’s, move on to the start up phase when your and your i know the focus of your talk is really around fund-raising in development strategy. So at this start up phase, what does fund-raising look like? Well, it’s a combination of things once again, it’s still going to be very close and that we’re friends, you’re going to develop a board, you’re gonna have to base it on by-laws and legal regulations and things like that. So those people are going to be you’re going to have to convince them in an early age, to want to be fund-raising on your behalf, you could be an early age of the organization really don’t don’t go recruiting five year old no that’s not fair, because they’ll come on five year olds will come, my love, you’re not gonna be like i know my eight year old, but they’re not going to reach adolescence by the time you do your organization does, they’re going to be exactly they’re gonna hold you back don’t don’t recruit the five year old no, i think the other pieces that you’re going to depending on the program and depending on the idea, what you’re also going to need to do is you have to harness technology. So between the social media, the youtube twitter than facebook’s of the world, you have to bring in an enormous amount of people who are going to learn about what you’re trying to do, connect to it early on, not that everybody’s going to move forward with it, but whatever whoever connect. So i guess you need to use the term, but you’re able to take it viral, then have some mechanism in the back to say ok, up to people who learn about it, who are the people that i need to go? Talk to the top fifty who are the top twenty five? You can’t be worried about that. One thousand people know about his thousand when early face of a startup, you have to find major donors early on, you have to find people who were going to buy into the concept take a chance they’re basically becoming investors in your idea of a philanthropic investor, and they’re going to take that that’s what’s going to be successful later on, you can build all the other traditional fund-raising ideas, but in the early start up phase, if you don’t do early on and get to capacity. Like i said, it goes back to also some people get started because they can fund it themselves. You know, michael bloomberg decides he wants to do something he can, he can throw his own a couple million teo. But aside, people can’t aside from from from being able to self fund, then this is really a marketplace test of your ideas and your marketing too, right? Right. And and that’s that’s going, you’ll never get to the mature phase of an organization if you can’t get major donors. All right, well, we’re gonna get people to adolescence before, before we get to mature. But how do they do something that you just mentioned? Identify the top twenty five or fifty out of the thousand people that are now, like, you know, like the facebook page and and r and r on the email list, how do you find those? The the top, right? Well, they basically had to use the tools that are provided for you from from a technology standpoint. So there’s a lot of research information out there that you confined on particular subject, whatever subject matter you are doing, even though if your programs unique there’s still people out there who have funded something in that arena. And so you have to find those people and find a way to connect and had those conversations with those foundations, corporations and major fund and potential individual donors. So most that information’s public knowledge now and you can create your own without spending a lot of money for fancy researcher you confined, you can create your own top twenty five prospectors. You can also listen to tony martignetti non-profit radio because we do have a regular prospect, research contributor maria semple, who comes on once a month, maria’s fancy socks you know what i do in the prospect finder? She comes on once a month. I’m with jeff sobel he’s, a founder of jeffrey sobel consulting, and we’re talking about the life cycles of a non-profit and different development strategies within each cycle, let’s go from start upto adolescence and growth. What does fund-raising look like now? Well, if this phase what you’re going to have a big change in your board, this is where you move away from your traditional friends and family board you’re actually recruiting people who have given to you connected to the agency professionals from other arenas, people you probably never met until you teo developed a non-profit so those trustees and you had to bring them on with the right expectations, too many matured agencies have they don’t have e-giving get policy, they don’t have a fund-raising component for their boards, and they try to integrate it afterwards. That’s the biggest mistake you can make what you have to do is in that early phase, when you move from start upto adolescents, you’ve gotta integrate the expectations of fund-raising for those who are connected, the board and volunteers because the only way you’re going to be successful in the fund-raising aspect is that i have a bigger network than yourself another people you know, the next. This is sort of a phase where you start moving into a traditional event, whatever that is e-giving example, agency we’re working with his only their foundation only has been around since two thousand five. This year, they did their first five k walk run on people connected to the walk run like you prior to the walk, when they had about a hundred people on their database after the walk run, they have over ten thousand people, not a smaller donors, the twenty five fifty dollars who donate to someone who walking and running into cause put down that now they have a database, that’s, actual prospects, people that take in mind and then move forward with. So you have to do something that’s going to increase that database, you’re going, you’ve got to really you can’t you can’t fund-raising without a database, but interesting, though you don’t, you know you didn’t start with event fund-raising back in the in the start up phase, you weren’t saying, have a gala. We’ll do a walk run, thie, but i do think a lot of people think of events is the only way to do fund-raising but so i think i’m just emphasizing all the message that you’ve said before this before you got to the events from the event was not the first way to raise money, right? Well, the biggest reason why lots of groups start that way is because most people connected to these ideas don’t have a non-profit background and most likely definitely don’t have a fund-raising background, a professional fund-raising background. So the only thing that they know is the traditional galas, golf outing, dinners and those types of things they don’t know the sophistication around major gifts and the moves management and the ways that are going to attract foundations and corporations, so they go to what they know that’s why i said that in the early stages, you’ve got to bring on some expertise, that’s going to help you sort of sort of figure out the best mode and bringing that money and get to the traditional type of stuff you need resource is it’s it’s it’s unless, like again, unless you have two dollars. To pay the caterers and the event and all the other stuff a front you can’t just do an event, events have a lot to cost to them and you don’t want to run a one something that’s not going to get you any profit, and they’re also incredibly labour intensive, very labor intensive, very labor, and i think a lot of people don’t realize what goes into making sure that the bunting matches the flowers. Well, the worst part about is they don’t realize that the real work for fund-raising happens after events, you know, it’s who attended, what did they get out of that event and who in that room has the potential to do something much beyond right? The price of the two hundred dollars ticket? You’re follow-up your follow-up on dh that’s directly now gets to what you said earlier when we were in the start up phase. You’ve got to find the people who come to the organization of those thousand or so that you found online who were the top ones that you need to follow up with same thing after you’re after your event. Who were the top attendees thatyou need to follow-up exactly in a strategic ways and maybe more personal ways than you’re following up with the other many hundreds who came, hopefully right, let’s move to maturity. Sure fund-raising here, what is our fund-raising model look like? Well, the fund-raising at this point, you should have ah, probably have a head of development, a director of development, smaller staff, some depending on the size agency. Much bigger staff, it’s going to be much more sophisticated. So your your development operations actually starts now breaking into two operations, you have your annual fund where you have to raise a certain amount of money to to need to keep the agency moving its programs, the staff paying everything that supplements all the other revenues of the agency. The other piece is creating the strategic longer term campaigns, whether it’s an endowment fund building a reserve if you own a building what’s, you know, the capitol pieces far building a new building or fixing things, you know, all sorts of reasons why you need to be in a major gifts mode, and you had to be able to manage those operations at the same time. You can’t just be in one and and do the other i’m insured agency amateur fund-raising development department can do both on last minute at least is also don’t forget about the plan giving component, which is very important by that by despite you should have the ability to really start taking your donor’s through their life cycle of e-giving on and that’s really important piece. Yeah, and if you’re not familiar with plans e-giving it’s it’s essentially encouraging people to remember the organization in their state plan, somehow that could be life insurance or simple bequest in their will. It’s like, sometimes it’s going back to the original founders and going back to the original people helped start the agency and saying, hayden, you know, we need you to leave a legacy you made something that now is around thirty five, forty years, whatever the years are, but it wants to be around for the next hundred years in order to do that, we need a sound investment. We need the sound endowment that’s going to secure an anchor, the agency what’s, the what’s, the key thing in the mature stage that you think non-profits don’t do a cz well as they ought to, they had to. Say one thing that you wish mature agencies organizations would do that they don’t, what would that be? Well, from fund-raising standpoint, i think the plan giving component is a huge one that i think too many agencies, i hate to use the word ignore, but put on the back burner or don’t put enough effort toward, but more important is thinking more strategic long term. So i think a lot of agencies plot along and do really well on the campaign and then when the moment arises or the question arises about hey, we need a campaign to do x, y and z above and beyond for whatever needs those are it’s it’s, they haven’t been doing enough to cultivate their donors, so that face takes a lot longer. So if i had the hole in the roof and we need to fix it and it’s going to cost us the two million dollars for the capital campaign, we needed to do it, you know, in a year from now, but we haven’t matured our donor’s ready to do it and it’s going to take more like two and three years so never think that the annual campaigns the only thing that’s going on the too many mature agencies think about the here and now, but, you know, i always think about your donors about what they’re doing for you anally, but also cultivating them to think about, okay, when we are ready to have a major initiative and they could be helpful to that major initiative, are we will we be ready to ask them? That’s the next stage is stagnation. That sounds like something we should avoid. Exactly, hoping i don’t mature that’s not part of my life cycle, right? So how do we avoid stagnation? Well, that is everything that you just described is a combination of that it’s also being able to evaluate taking a hard look once again it’s strategic planning process. But i’ma call organizational eagerness. Okay, so as we talked about in the start of face having egos, organizations, whoever tour sometimes have their own ego to themselves because i feel like the importance of whatever they’re doing or what they have been doing for many, many years still remains. So you have to be evaluating your programs. You have to be evaluating what you’re doing and that impact on the community. Can you be doing something new, evaluating the market to what if, what if the need’s right, that should be in the community all the time assessing whether your work is still relevant? Exactly. I mean, if you’re running let’s, say, youth program at a particular school and you know, when you first started about that, you had a waiting list and kids were climbing to get in there and in the last two years, you know, you go on visited in the half, the room’s half empty something’s not resonating there, so you can’t rest on your laurels and your funders will quickly get to that piece they’ll start seeing your outcomes. Obviously anybody who’s ever written the grant know is that at some point you have to write a report, and at some point, if you’re going to renew, you’ve gotta prove those outcomes, and when the numbers are not there, they’re not there, and so that will quickly. So you you can’t sort of live in that mode. You’ve gotta kind of always say, hey, we’ve got to be evaluating ourselves. What can we challenge ourselves with? It doesn’t necessarily meeting creating something off mission, because that’s what a lot of agencies, right is staying on mission, but creating something that will continue, you know, reinvigorating, reengage, you know, there’s various things, and the other thing is, obviously your volunteers, you got to be consistent with your board. Ah, there’s, nobody out there does that i’ve ever met who could be on a board for more than eight, nine, ten years and still be assed valuables they were from the beginning boardmember can leave, can moved often agency and still connect to the agency and still be important. But there’s a huge value, bringing someone new to fill that seat, new energy and many organizations, you know, they hold onto boardmember fearful to ask them to step down. We have just thirty seconds left. Jeff decline is the last stage what one piece of advice for avoiding declined? Well, usually that’s a hard thing if your agency the biggest thing that you can do to avoid declining a za non-profit is probably when you get to the stagnation phase, realize it quickly and devise a plan quickly usually it’s a deficit that you’re dealing with and never be afraid to cut a part of your program or your agency, because it could be the detriment of your entire agency, don’t hold onto something to to know in the long run we’ll put you out of business, even though you just hold on it because of legacy or just something you’ve always done. You have to be willing to cut your losses. Jeff sobel is founder of jeffrey sobel consulting and his conference topic at national philanthropy day is non-profit life cycles and culture, the development strategies for each stage. And i think this is jeff very interesting conversation, very relevant for people who are thinking about a non-profit there at that brainchild phase, they really should know what what lies ahead. Oh, yes. Is that there’s a lot? Thank you very much for being a guest. My pleasure. This is tony martignetti na non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter that was my pre recorded interview fund-raising throughout your life cycle. I recorded that with jeffrey sobel at westchester county chapter of the association for fund-raising professionals national philanthropy day in november two thousand eleven. Just last month. Right now we take a break and after the break it’s, tony’s, take two and then marrying major and planned gif ts. So stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m ken berger from charity navigator. Welcome back to the show, it’s time now for tony’s take to my block this week is my next-gen charity video interviews last month at the next-gen charity conference, i interviewed about eight of the luminaries who they had a cz part of their program. It was a pretty exciting conference close to a thousand people were their very jazzed up audience heard from a lot of very interesting people, and i got to interview a bunch of them. We were media sponsors for that conference. One of them is craig newmark he’s, the founder of craigslist, and now more recently, craigconnects craig and i talked about consistent messaging and knowing when to stop talking peter thumb and i talked about perseverance in the face of disappointment. Peter is the founder of ethos water aria finger, chief operating officer of do something dot org’s, which is a site devoted to getting young people involved in volunteering with non-profits joined me to share ideas about how to motivate teenagers to support your work market echo of eco enterprises, the well known clothing lines talked about his board service. Um, i talked with charles best he’s the founder of donors choose dot or ge and he and i talked about connecting donors to the causes they support. You may know donors choose that’s the site where teachers post their needs in the classroom, and then individual donors devote money to those to those needs. Neil strauss uncovered lessons for non-profits from his undercover work in a secret society of pickup artists. He infiltrated this society when he was on assignment for rolling stone magazine. You can learn what eric sapp kristen learned from taking two hundred of our nation’s thought leaders and entertainers out for a cup of coffee. He traveled the country in a volkswagen microbus and cold called about two hundred of our nation’s leaders and entertainers on dh people you know, from the arts and politics and invite him out for a cup of coffee, including jimmy carter, don rickles, henry winkler, let’s well, in the interview, i brought out some lessons that he learned from talking to all those people, and disney made a film about his his journey, and the movie is the journey so links to these and a lot of other next-gen videos are on my block mpg a dv dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, december ninth. Now we have a pre recorded interview marrying major and planned gif ts you’ll learn about how these two could be compatible from charlie gordy, director of planned giving in harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home in consulting see whether this could be a match made in heaven between major and planned gif ts and here’s that interview this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We are in the heart of san antonio, texas, on the river walk i guess now are margaret hohman and charlie gordy. Margaret is principal holman consulting in new york city and charlie gordy is director of planned e-giving at harvard law school. Margaret charlie welcome! Thank you. Thankyou, tony. Good to be here. It’s. A pleasure to have both of you your your session topic is job fusion or confusion marrying major and plant gifts. Charlie, let me start with you. What what’s the possible confusion. Well, as a lot of organisations respond to what’s going on in the economy, the pressure for outright current e-giving has led to a de emphasis on plan giving deferred e-giving and individual playing, giving officers or having to respond to that looking at being merged into a major gifts rolls, and that is causing some confusion for them, i think, personally and also institutionally in what the best approach is to overall fund-raising into their donors, okay, but is it not a good idea to be breaking down silos between major e-giving and plan giving? I think breaking down the silos is absolutely critical and the structure internally you should be very flat. Margaret pointed out in our first session that what she sees and obviously let her speak for herself, for what she sees in the future is a very flat structure. The silos should be broken down, and major gift and plan giving officers should work very, very closely together with donors, but they are different techniques of fund-raising they’re different processes you think differently when you’re focusing on on plan giving versus major e-giving, um, and all playing gifts are major gifts essentially just depends on how you get there, okay? We’re going to talk a little about what the different thoughts might be and margaret, we will get to what the future looks like, but before we get there. I just, you know, sort of leading into the topic too. Your your session description suggests that changes in the economy changes in the tax law are impacting this issue. Indeed, the more complex, constant and confusing change is that there are with tax laws right now from the charitable deduction that proposed change in the estate law. State tax law it coming it going? How do i plan for a bequest? Should i die this year? Should i die next year? Those are all things that are confusing not only to gift officers but also to donors and that is really driving a lot of the expertise surrounding both major gift work and planned gift work. Thie economy obviously has an effect to when the economy stumbles, major gifts go down. Plan gifts are not as affected by the economy because they are future gifts. They’re more long term on many organizations. If they have a plan gift program that has been working that will be the bridge between the bad economy and staying alive is because i’m getting bequests. I might not be getting major gifts now. Are you seeing in your consulting practice some regret among charities that don’t have a plan giving probono yes, wishing, wishing they started ten even five years ago maybe yes, and many organizations who said, hey, listen, our plan give program is just going a million miles an hour, we’re getting millions of dollars, so we don’t have to do anything now on then all and then it starts this gradual decline for about five years, and somebody in the finance office says, oh, my gosh, how come our be question come is going down it’s because we haven’t been doing anything well, let’s put some money into doing anything now they’ve got another five year wait, so you got a ten year trough s o that the name of the game is consistent, it needs to be this consistent effort indeed, from oh planned gift and go ahead, charlie. Yeah, tow follow-up on what margaret said, i worked with an organization a few years ago on a consulting basis, and the cfo there said, look, i could shut the plan giving program down tomorrow, and i wouldn’t see it, i wouldn’t see any impact for five years, and i’ve got a budget problem right now that i’ve got it solved. So, isn’t that a a good solution? And i had to tell him that no, in fact, it’s absolutely the wrong thing to do because you are going to hurt the long term financial health of your organization for a short term gain and, uh, our listeners, i want to point out charlie has a terrific bowtie on, and for those who are on the videos were doing videos is not a clip on i want to make it very clear, it’s clearly not a clip on much, much classier guy than then those clip on men. So what? What are some practical solutions, margaret, for breaking down the silos and bringing the two together? Well, one of the practical solutions is to train cross train land, gift officers and major gift officers in each other’s areas of expertise, so that in essence, you become a generalist. And i find now that my clients, when they do have an opening for a major gift officer, are looking for somebody who can talk plan gifts. We want two for the price of one. When i started in the fund-raising world nineteen seventy six, there weren’t planned gift officers. There weren’t specialties because of the way the economy went and democratic demographics of donors it caused institutions to create silos. Teo, answer that need the demographics are changing the old that big group of older folks who are prime plan gift prospects are dying off now. There aren’t very many of them left, and we’re entering this age of the boomers and the silence who can both make a major gift and a plan gift. And now we need to have people who can talk both things, but we also have to educate our boards, but more often than not, we really have to address the problem that charlie ran into and talk to our finance people and explain how this really works. Let’s, start with the first of the things that you mentioned, the cross training how how deep should the major gift officer’s training be implant e-giving are we talking about just the ability to open a discussion or that they could go further? Maybe even maybe even they can meet with donors? Advisors? I mean, how deep should that training b of the former plan gift officer now? Now cross training? Well, it is really is going to do for sort of the former major gift officer. Krauz right, it’s going to really depend on the individual and the institution? I like to make my major gift officers what i call dangerous going like for them to know when they’ve gotten to the point where they don’t have the answer and and can say confidently, i don’t have the answer that let me get back to you on and that way you accomplished two things when the donor gets the right information, but you have another contact with the donor, thus getting the relationship continuing our good relationship on. So i like to get them as dangerous as possible. They need to understand the basic concepts and know when to say i need, you know, i need to call charlie, okay, so now, charlie yeah, yeah follow-up on that i work with major gift officers att the law school that are are really exceptional a cz you’d expect, and they still aren’t very comfortable talking about plan giving on on a regular basis. I have one that asks me a couple of times a year again to explain the difference between a gift annuity and trust. And that’s fine, and i’m happy to do that and that’s a great role for me. What i like to do is educate them to know what to listen for. You know, i have a house that i’m no longer using very much. I’d love to give, but and then to follow on what margaret said when the donor says that, but i like them to say to no be comfortable saying, well, you know what? If we were able to show you a way that you could still make your gift and take care of those other financial concerns that you have, they don’t need to know how the gift annuity payments are taxed or how the charitable deduction is calculated, but that their their methods that the organization can present that will allow the donor to still make their gift and take care of those other financial concerns that have so that suggests that there there does still need to be an expert in planned e-giving at at the organization, we can’t all just be flat, absolute cross trained? Absolutely. I believe that one hundred percent. Yeah, well, the the other thing, too is well, i also believe that there should be a plan give expert on everybody staff not every organization can afford to do that is going to get there. So using expertise either if you’ve got somebody on the board whose attacks planning attorney or trusting a state’s attorney and you can use that and get some advice or there are a lot of consultants out there who would be more than happy to work with an organization on on an hourly basis or whatever other way you khun by the expertise you need, what you can’t buy is the donor relationship. Yeah, if you have the luxury of the budget toe, have somebody on staff that’s great, but as margaret points out in his, you point out, tony, if you don’t have that it’s available and you can find it and it’s it’s almost like the same link between the major gift officer and the in house plan giving person with more expertise and then thean house plan giving person in the outside consultant everybody knows how far they can take it and when to bring in somebody else to actually make the gift happen. Let’s, go into some of the little detail, charlie. About what you suggested earlier, what to listen for lets you know so that listeners can actually get some of the benefit of the of the training. What are some things that gift officers should be listening for? That would suggest a good plan to give prospect well, first in in, in doing the planning to visit someone looking at their history, their donation history, consistent gifts over a long period of time, maybe it’s one hundred dollars, maybe it’s, fifty dollars, over five, ten years, maybe it’s a thousand. So they have that that that philanthropic connection with the institution, when you’re meeting with them of and your goal, perhaps, is an outright major gift. And they say, well, i’m just i’m not very liquid right now, so they have assets, but they’re tied up, maybe in stocks or in real estate, and if they’re in stocks and real estate, those of the assets they have it’s, a perfect candidate for a plan, gift talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Durney okay, margaret, any any further advice on? Well, oftentimes i hear people say, i don’t think i can afford this right now, and i want to take care of my family so that that again gives us that opportunity to talk about some more unconventional ways, shall we say, to make those kinds of gifts? When i work with organizations toe to go out and talk to donors, i tell them often, teo, tell the donor to take care of themselves first their family’s second and us third. And there are ways that we can help you take care of yourself, your family and then us that don’t involve writing a check. Okay, what’s one of those ways. Let’s. Go into a little detail. Well, obviously, their life income gifts that can provide for your wife, your spouse, your elderly sister, whatever. You can still make a gift. That person is getting income gets it out of your state plan. There are a myriad of different ways that you can do this. I think baby boomers are going to be looking at life income gifts as good alternatives for retirement planning and that’s going to be the new frontier four. Major and plant gift officers and charlie. Those the most common life income gifts that we see, i guess, would be the charitable gift annuity and charitable remainder. Trust that that’s right gift annuity is much more common, usually for a smaller dollar amount less flexible in the planning process than a charitable remainder trust which can i usually take care of a need to have a growing income stream versus a fixed one. And the terms of the trust document can generally be varied. Mohr then a gift annuity, which is just a simple contract. Okay? And you also have a lot of state regulation around charitable gift annuities. We want listeners to know that it’s not it’s, not a lot of states. Most states it’s not something you can just start issuing tomorrow. No, there. There are a lot of things involved. I also sit on the board of the american council on gift annuities. And there are a lot of things involved when you decide to get into a gift annuity program. State regulations for sure need to be complied with, but also the liability, the contractual liability that you’re exposing your organization to has to be. Matched against the benefits of the program, you have tohave ah, the ability to assemble a pool of gift annuities fifteen, twenty, twenty five gift annuities so you’re diversifying the risk over the portfolio of annuities, you have to have an investment strategy that’s going to be appropriate to deliver that annual income. So there, it’s very simple to set up in terms of the contract and the gift, but much more complicated to maintain and run appropriately, since you’re on the board of the american council on gift annuities wanna give a little pitch just to give the web web? You know the girl for you? Www dot a hyphen, web dot or ge great organization has been around since the twenties recommending gift annuity rates, recommending not prescribing but recommending gift annuity rates that are really in the best interests of the donor and the organization over the long term. Thank you for that, and i want you to know that i didn’t know the girl in case i didn’t say i was happy to have you say, but i don’t want you to think, oh god, what if i don’t know what you’re on the board so i figured you’d be saying i told you there was a safe question. I hope that means i got it right. His hyphen web dot. Org’s that’s, right. Um, let’s see, margaret way talked a little about the future of this job fusion versus confusion. What? What were your points in the workshop? Well, the basic point is, is that while we continue to be donor-centric in all of our activities way we have to begin to understand that we’ve made these silos to define for ourselves as fund-raising professionals where we are in the hierarchy of our organizations, donors don’t care, they just want to deal with the right person at the organization and for some donors, learning that i’m going to be talking to the director of major gifts, paints a bull’s eye on my forehead, and that makes me uncomfortable. But if i was talking with margaret from the development office, who was going to help me make a gift externally, we have to be flatlined. We all have to look like we’re equal. We all have to be able to help our donors do what they want to do. So i see the future is that? That titles will pretty much be the same. Go away internally, we’ll have our organised beloved organization charts, but to our donors it will just be a flat line and that’s it extends beyond major and planned giving, though to visit, and you will giving corporate and foundation sponsorship and support work. I was at a event for a client recently, and everybody proudly was wearing their name tag with their job title on the front and the director of major gifts was walking down the floor, heading to see a specific donors and she could see the job title and she turned her back to talk to somebody else. You just bull’s eye, i know i’m going to be asked for a big gift, so i think this just continues to be donors and we have to pay a tent. We have to listen to what they’re saying, but we’ve been saying this for i don’t know at least a decade, but now i’ve been in play e-giving for fourteen years, not as long as either of you and i’ve been hearing donor-centric donor-centric put the donor’s needs first, but in terms of job hierarchies and descriptions, it hasn’t. Happened yet? Ah lot of that has to do with it coming from down from the top and how executive directors like to organize and how they manage on, and it takes a sophisticated executive director to understand how important it is the public perception of a donor to working with somebody, they really associate the person, not the title with the organisers. And i remember advice from someone i know you both know hyre robert sharps sr who used to preach that his preferred job title for everybody would be assistant to the president. Yes, because what don’t right, johnny, what donors wouldn’t want to talk to the assistant to the president? No, no, i think that’s right, and the the name tags that i like the most for me personally just say alumni affairs and development. They don’t say director of plan giving because i think margaret’s right? You get a very different reaction or when i send emails and i’m thinking about this as i’m saying it, i may change my email tag, take out the director of playing e-giving and just put in alumni affairs and development because people see that and the point about it. Being flat internally and donor-centric we’ve been hearing the donor center, as he said for about a decade, the flat internally i think it’s been less and less quick to come because organizations haven’t had to respond internally. Now, we’ve had the two budget crises over the last decade two thousand to two thousand eight organisations saying, you know hey, what are we doing in terms of how were structured and the danger is that playing giving gets lost in that shuffle in the in the flat, the flattening and it all becomes major gift focus with a loss on the play e-giving focus i think if it’s done right, you could do it both very successfully have a flat organization, somebody internally that has the plan giving expertise. I can work successfully without being siloed to enhance major gift officers success and still preserve the plan giving expertise and function and that’s the fusion in urine yourself in your workshop titled the job fusion i think that’s right. I want to bring these things together. Any closing thoughts, margaret? Well, we just want to say thanks again for having me us today and we, i hope, all of our listeners get one or two good nuggets of ideas that’s the idea. Margaret hohman is principal of woman consulting in new york city. Charlie gordy is director of playing giving at the harvard law school. I want to thank you both for joining us. Thank you. Thanks, tony. Pleasure to have you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning two thousand eleven. That was my pre recorded interview marrying major and planned gif ts from the national conference on philanthropic planning earlier this year. I want to thank jeff sobel and charlie gordy and margaret hohman and the organizers of a f p westchester’s national national philanthropy day that’s, where i talked to jeff sobel and the folks at the partnership for philanthropic planning, they were the hosts of the conference where i interviewed charlie gordy and margaret hohman next week. Social media inbound zombie is his consulting company, social media marketing for non-profits is his blogged john hayden will be my guest and also scott koegler, a regular contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news will share the latest on tech for your office. Keep up with what’s coming up on the show. Sign up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page. You know where to find facebook and then it’s just the name of this show. If you like the show like the page, please become fan. You can listen live or archive. Itunes is where you listen archive and you could get to our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net. You can subscribe there and listen on your computer smartphone tablet the device of your choice. You can follow me on twitter. You can follow the show on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio. 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Tony’s guests this week:
Rachel Emma Silverman, reporter at The Wall Street Journal and contributor to their blog “The Juggle”
Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now”
Joe Ferraro, board member of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, Westchester county chapter
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com