373: New Tax Law & Your 2018 Plan – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guest this week:

Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group. 

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

069: SoMe 4 PG & Your Nonprofit In Politics – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Kristen Schultz, senior vice president at Crescendo Interactive

Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me two weeks ago when we had your plan. That was jason hutchins as my guest, he’s, the president of non-profit solutions. And he told you why you need a night plan and what belongs in it. We talked about budget equipment outsourcing the cloud and mme, or to help you avoid an crisis and the goods on google plus pages are tech contributor scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news. He’s on with me once a month, you kicked the tires on the recently released google plus pages for organizations. Should you take one for a test drive? How are they different than facebook pages? And last week i hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving. I hope you did not go shopping on thanksgiving day this week. So me for pg kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo, is going to share her research and interview results on the best uses of social media to support your plan to giving program video’s testimonials blogging tech in from technical information and she’s joining us from camarillo, california our next guest on the show is also from california. It’s going to be your non-profit in politics emily chan, one of our regular legal contributors from the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco, identifies the limits around political campaign activity and election earing we’re approaching a presidential election year. What can your non-profit do? And how does the irs decide whether you’ve crossed the line under the first amendment? What can your employees say on tony’s? Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour my block this week is thank you. There are many things i’m thankful for, and i’ll talk a little about those on tony’s take two. We’re live tweeting this week we have a guest live tweeter manette singleton from atlanta, georgia. Thank you very much, lynette, thanks for joining us. You can follow lynette she’s at s c g for non-profits and that’s a number four and to join the conversation on twitter with lynette’s live tweeting use hashtag non-profit radio this show is sponsored by g grace corporate real estate solutions. We’re going to take a break. And when we returned, kristen schultz from crescendo. So me for pg, stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com oh! Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio, i guess now is kristen schultz. Kristen is an attorney at crescendo interactive. She specializes in online marketing and social media for planned gif ts she speaks widely and is a principal faculty member of gift college christians on the board of the american council on gift annuities and isa boardmember for the partnership for philanthropic planning of greater los angeles, you’ll find her on twitter at crescendo tweet and her planned giving blogger is kristen schultz dot black spot dot com i’m very glad that kristin’s work brings her to the show. Christian schulz welcome tony, pleasure to have you on you did some research and some interviews to try to discover best practices for planned e-giving why don’t you tell us what your methodology was? Yeah, i was receiving questions on social media in my work with plan giving, charity and charities were asking me why my organization use social media were planned gift. Is anyone using these tools successfully? And how much time will this take? And really what they want to know is what is the return on their investment are they going to achieve any result from these efforts? And so i began looking for information in this area and found a lot really on the current giving side, but nothing specifically directed towards certain gifts. So i started to compile my own information i it took a survey and advertise it broadly and receive the numerous examples from charities across our community and began to share those as best practices that they spoke this last year and next year. Well, ok, and how many websites did you look at? How many charities did you hear from? I would say over a hundred different sites, and then i personally interviewed sixteen charities that i thought were the best example i found, and those are the ones i featured in my study, ok? And did those i guess the sixteen since you thought those were the best? Did they cluster around any particular mission? Charitable work? No, they were all different, i would say the majority of securities that are doing social media, our educational institutions in that makes sense because they’ve bought vast alumni networks and they’re already doing that for their students on. So i found a large group in the college and university field, but i have examples that are hospitals and medical centers and community foundations, all different types of organizations, okay, when i think that’s reassuring to charities to know that whatever their mission, they can do well with social media for planned e-giving maybe we should just give a little encouragement a little inducement, perhaps teo be using social media and promoting online giving? Well, obviously that’s an increasing trend right online, giving it is it’s an increasing trend and there’s been tremendous growth in that area there surveys produced by blackbaud, and they do the online giving report on video online e-giving group in two days ten by thirty five percent and at the same time, we’ve seen this rise of social media so there’s this explosion and growth on the web charities air trying to find easier ways to communicate more efficiently and cost effectively, and social media certainly is a place to be. Even if you think it’s a bad your donors or not, there they are, they’re there i looking at pictures of the grandchildren, and they’re on these mediums every day, and so it’s a perfect place to capture their attention? Do you find people who think that facebook, twitter linked in four, square are fads? Uh, you know, there certainly are some people that think that, but i think the majority of recognizing, like, the internet, a lot of people don’t want to set a plan giving websites, and now they realize that the direction the technology is going and we to be there and the charities that are there are going to capture that audience, and i didn’t mention google plus and i guess right, i guess you could say, you know, the i’ve seen written that tweeting it will be will be around for a very, very long time and there’s, the question is whether twitter would be around for a long time and that sort of captures, you know, the concept of meeting people online will, i think, is unending, but just whether it’ll be facebook ten years from now or google plus or something else that we don’t we’ve never even heard of, so i think the concepts will endure is just what platforms? Yeah, certainly we’ve seen changes in technology, you know, starting my face-to-face book, and now there might be a migration to google plus, we’ll have to see, but i think the idea is that individuals are out there, they’re using social media on a daily basis and whether you like the concept or not, that is where your supporters are at and if the captive audience and so i think there are a lot of charities that are really leveraging that they’re posting on facebook i daily basis, they’re not necessarily using it for fund-raising purposes and i don’t think that’s the goal, but they’re using it to build a relationship, and that really is the key. When we talk about plan, get what you want, a relationship and how should ah non-profit start in social media for planned e-giving yeah, i think the most important thing is to find out where your community is and the way you do that is through testing and listening there’s a lot of literature in this area that cantor kind of social media guru for non-profit she’s written about this non-profit technology network and ten has a lot of resources, but the idea is that you need to find out where your community is, and the best way to do that is to set up a facebook page, set up a twitter account, start posting and tweeting, advertise with your email on your website, and see where you are followers or your fans are at. And then, you know, this is the medium that’s working for me, and then you need to try some different types of posts or tweet to see what your community response. Teo so it’s a matter of really testing, listening and it’s going to be different for each organization. Christian schulz is senior vice president at crescendo. We’re talking about social media for your plan giving programme. We’re going to take a break. Please stay with us tooting, getting dink, dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz get in. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, back-up two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fund for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio kristen schultz from crescendo interactive and i are talking about social media for your plan to giving program kristen i since you mentioned that this is not necessarily for getting gifts directly, but really just in large part building dona relationships. One of the poll questions that i asked listeners for before the show is whether you’re non-profit is using facebook to build donorsearch ships on day, three quarters of the respondents said either yes, quite a bit or yes, slightly and twenty five percent. We’re not using it at all, so overwhelming majority using facebook to build dahna relationships, what do you like to see in in terms of goal setting for social media around planned e-giving i think in terms of gold, you have to set some basic objective and then begin to track your results. I like the smart objective that non-profit technology, uh, network uses smart. I mean your specific about your goals, they’re measurable there, attainable the relevant and their time bound. For example, in the plan giving context, it might be that i post a link to sign up for my organization can give you use letter on facebook and i might that’s the goal of achieving thirty new sign up in the next thirty days so that’s, quantitative and it’s time down. But once you’ve set a basic objective like that, you can use some of the measurement tools to actually measure how you’ve achieved your results and absolute organizations want to see they want to see that they’re achieving results from their social media efforts. Where will we find the and ten groups? Do you know? Do you know there you are, l ten ntn dot or ge and that’s the non-profit technology network? Is that right? Okay, i have a lot of resource latto resource is out there for people who are dafs or social media experts who are actually doing the actual posting. Most of the organization’s i’ve talked to in the plane giving arena are not posting to the page. They have a general charity facebook page and there ford and post to that person. Okay, so let’s talk about some of the methods that non-profits can use are around social media for plan giving. What did you see around the use? Of video. Yeah, i’ve seen a lot of the area video, and i think this is a growing area. Facebook allows you to drop videos on youtube and establish a link, or you can record a video via webcam. Texas am university is an example of security that has dropped number of donors testimonials. I had a great one a couple of months ago. A couple of made a request through their will, and they are a couple that has spent generations of their family, their children and grandchildren through texas a and m. And so they shared their story and talked about why you should contribute teo and m in their requests, gifts and the benefit of social media with dr stories and testimony, menu testimonials and videos that individuals can respond right on the paint and so you can share in that enthusiasm. Both seems staff testimonials where staff members, charities will talk about why they’ve made a commitment to their will on and then mission videos are very popular. The citadel foundation has a great video talking about the work of their organization. Save the chimps are really wonderful, custom branded video that shares images of their work so there’s a lot you can do with video about facebook and all summer long, andi want toby reassuring to our writings, which is small and mid sized non-profits that that these videos don’t have to be high end there’s been there’s really compelling stuff out there? That’s really just like a flip cam, right? Really, you could drop anything on facebook that meet their specifications, but you’re just simply dropping the video out there and establishing a link, you know, youtube or where, and it just doesn’t need to be, you know, high production value as long as that you mentioned some donorsearch s timoney als and another question that i asked around facebook and since you mentioned it for listeners before the show is, are you using facebook to support your plan to giving program? Nobody said yes quite a bit about a third a little more than third said yes slightly and then all the rest, about two thirds said no, they’re not using facebook at all to support planned giving so summer some are using it for donor relationships generally based on the first question, but on this on this question, not really using it. So much for plan e-giving and that is true, and i did my survey there’s only a small group that it’s starting to use facebook and twitter and lengthen and some of these platforms for planned gift. But i think it’s a growing group, certainly we’ve seen a lot of growth the current giving side no securities air out there talking about their efforts, and they also have cast donation button paypal account’s attached to their facebook pages. But yeah, there hasn’t been a lot said about this in the plane, getting community and that’s why this research was so interesting to me, and i wonder if if some of that reluctance to use facebook for planned e-giving is because the older, older community sixty, people sixty seventies and eighties are reluctant to use facebook beyond, you know, just tracking keeping in touch with family. I think that some individuals you that correct, but it’s actually not if you look at these fucking site survey’s biggest growth has been in recent years women age fifty five plus they are online and again, they’re looking at grandchildren’s pictures and they’re on their facebook pages every day. And so there’s actually a growing group of seniors who are out there one of the individuals i talked with david moore from chapman university he’s got a facebook page that’s just dedicated to his plane getting group, and he established it because he found so many of the seniors who were supporters of the university were out there on facebook. So it’s surprising, but there is a growing group there and it’s, a group that you can capture their attention if you are out there with a present for your carrying on with kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo interactive. We’re talking about planned your social media for planned e-giving remind you that we are live tweeting when that singleton is guest live tweeting for us. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter and if you have a question you want to call in, we can’t take your call at eight seven seven four aito for one two oh eight, seven, seven, four aito for one two oh, you mentioned the quests kristen, is that really the place to start? If if you’re a small and midsize shop, is that the? Is that the place to start your social? Media effort? Yeah, it really is. The majority of plan gifts are still bequest. Request our blanket virtually any charity can offer and it’s interesting. Because if you look at the statistics, lawyers got confidence survey, sixty five percent of adults have no plan. And so a lot of individuals have not even begun to plan for their future. But planning when it does start its beginning earlier than we previously thought. It’s actually not a sixty five at forty forty five, the average age for the first will of actually forty four. And this is based on a study that was reproducing if key eventjournal average age for first requested forty nine and you can see actually metoo start capturing the attention of individuals in their forties when we talk about plan gift. Okay. And of course, i want to keep myself out of george in jail on the show we have judge in jail. And, you know, i said bequests. I just wanna make sure that everybody understands that that is a gift in someone’s will i think most people understand that, but i want to stay clear of dark in jail because if i’m in george in jail than be nobody to talk to you way we just have to hang up now would be the end so that we don’t want that. How about getting testimony? Sorry, getting technical information to either donors or advisors? How much of that did you see? I would say the most common plan getting post on facebook or tweet on twitter are short they’re typically wanted two lines with a short length back-up teo plan getting website and it’s really important to use a short link when you’re linking teo anything on your site, go to billy dot com or tinyurl dot com the best toasts are always the ones that linked to interactive tools or ask the reader to take action or respond. One organization i’ve seen it done quite well in marquette community foundation in northern michigan. They are on facebook and they have established a series of link on facebook. Teo will kit, and they invite people to download this freak it it’s a guide to planning your will and trust and that’s led to request discussions on the page. Uh, it’s resulted in vivid when someone asked questions on the page, and it seems that they’re interested to get planner will then take the discussion off the page and going have a normal visit, just like you would do with any plan gift, and that resulted in commitments for the organization. Both cast cash gift, but also bequest. Okay on dh that’s ah, technical information for donors. Did you see much use of technical information for advisors on being promoted around social media? I mean, i know technical sites exist for planners and advisors, but did you see non-profits encouraging advisers to go there through their own social media? I have not seen as much of that, but what i have seen is that there are a couple of non-profit that have advertise seminars for sessions for advisors, you, twitter and facebook, and i’m thinking of a jewish organization, the washington dc area, that sundown fairly effectively, but yeah, i don’t see a lot of post directed towards advisors from charity. Ok, let’s, talk a little about blogging. I know you. You have some have some tips about blogging. What? Just let’s again. Tryto encourage people. Why should there be a plan giving block? Yeah, i think that blogger is your own expression the way teo. Talk frankly about your work, your mission. And there are some organizations that have done that very effectively. Valencia college foundation in florida. Sorry, where was that? Was valencia? Yeah, valencia kottler foundation that gives planner there. Dahna marino has a great blogged herb log is on the word press platform and she’s featured a number of different types of plant gifts. She’s talked about the quest, uh, stock gift. She in a bequest post, will post her bequest language so individual knows how to include the charity in their plan, she always post to a gift acknowledgement, forms a form where the individual can fill that out, acknowledge a guest and join their legacy society on and all of her posts link back to her plan, getting website and her email and so she’s using the bloggers away to drive people to the plan, giving sight for more information and what’s your advice around driving people to the bog. I think that’s a great idea as well, it’s just that unless you build a really comprehensive block, you won’t have all of the information that you might have on your plan giving sight so you would have to make sure that you have big coverage of the different gift model and also, you know, some really motivating stories, but certainly she’s making a good example, someone who has built up a plan getting file, she actually files and takes her block and all of her blog’s are filed under plan giving. So if i wanted to find all of the information on plan giving on her block, i would just click on plan giving and she’s built up a fairly comprehensive list of posts on plan getting topic. So i think you can grow that over time, but it might not include all the information you might have on your plan getting website, you know, write clearly, and i was just i’m asking about howto promote the blog’s that people go there, people go there to see it, and then they find the information elsewhere. How does she promote or what? What’s your advice around promoting the block well, when i drop a block, i always tweet to it right away and so my twitter followers no, i’ve just posted something and then my block also migrates over to facebook so a charity can connect their blawg to their facebook page and by tweets also migrate over to facebook, and then i have my facebook page and my twitter account linked, smiling, then account, and so anyone whose only sin will be able to view both of those. And so when you connect your accounts like that, i think it really saved you a lot of time you only have to post or tweet in one place and the information then migrates over to the different platforms. So you’re reaching different audiences, and i know that he does that also effectively, they post to the block with your face. So all these are inextricably intertwined. They’re all pointing to each other. Okay? And then the block is the source of information deeper information you said their links and archives pointed to from there right? I also spoke to someone from unicef foundation and they have a great block. They feature donorsearch stories and they will post their facebook page a link to the block every time they have a new story. Alright, kristen, we have to leave it there. That’s video testimonials, technical information for donors and advisors and blogging. Christian schulz is senior vice president for crescendo interactive. She mentioned that she actively tweets. You can follow her on twitter at at crescendo tweet. Kristen schultz, thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you, it’s. Been a real pleasure having you. We’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s take to my block this week. Thank you, and then after that, we’ll have emily chan talking about your non-profit in politics, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight, three. Conscious consultant. Helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable race? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back, it’s. Time for tony’s. Take two. My block this week is thank you. Thank you very much for listening to the show whether you listen live or to the podcast. There are a thousand of you that download our podcast from itunes and i’m very grateful for that. I also thank my clients for trusting me with their plan to giving work or their charity registration work. Thank you. Also to the eleven hundred people who get my weekly radio email alerts. I am grateful that you let me into your inbox thinly veiled as a radio show. Thank you. Thanks to those who follow my blogged and comment on the block, i have a lot to be thankful for. And there’s mohr gratitude expressed on my block this week. The name of the post is thank you and you’ll find my block at mpg a d v dot com. Thank you. That’s tony’s, take two for friday, december second. Joining me now is emily chan. Emily, how you doing? I’m doing really well. How are you? Excellent. Very good to have you back on the show. Emily is an attorney at neo-sage non-profit and exempt organizations law. Firm in san francisco, and she is principal contributor at the non-profit law blawg dot com. You can follow emily on twitter under her name at emily chan. Emily we’re talking this week about political activity we’re coming up on a presidential election year just generally what is the rule around political activity by non-profits so today we’re going to focus on five, oh one, three organizations, but it would be like public charities, and the general rule is that they’re absolutely prohibited from engaging in political campaign activity on so generally this means things like no contributions, no endorsement by the organization and no use of the organization’s resources by one candidate without giving equal opportunity to the other candidates. And i want to thank you for catching me. You’re very thoughtful when i say non-profits that’s really not right? We’re talking about five o one c three, the charitable part because there are lots of non-profits that are not five or one c three, not charitable, so thank you for that and you didn’t even even called me out and possible jargon jail violation was because i missed used the term we’re not talking about non-profits like labor. Unions or or membership associations were talking about exactly as you said, the charitable sector of the five o one see threes, but thank you you mentioned not using the charity’s resource is what what kinds of resource is do. Charities need to be careful about their employees possibly using or or the or board members possibly using so there’s actually quite an array of resources that could lead into political campaign activity if used improperly to touch upon the first one you mentioned about staff on board members there’s, a major confusion area for many five on three organizations about what their staff on board members could do in their individual capacity. Because people have first amendment rights so many times individuals want to engage in political campaign activity on their own behalf, sometimes it causes problems. So for example, when that individual uses their organizational email address, they make statements at an organization sponsored event basically things out with lead one to believe that it’s the organization speaking or asking that person to speak or supporting what that individual says. The organizations want to be very clear in making that separation between what an individual khun d’oh in. Their individual capacity on what the organization is prohibited from doing so that’s interesting just use of the company or the sorry the charity’s email. I mean, i think people probably use their office e mail all the time because it’s just so much easier than switching back and forth between that gmail account or something, but so if your if you’re using your charities email, then that’s gonna that’s gonna look like you’re speaking on behalf of the charity? Yes, it certainly could, and so organizations will wantto have policies to make sure that the individuals are aware of this. But i think in most cases, it’s not intentional. I don’t think the individual wants to get the organization in trouble, but as you said, it may just be a matter of convenience or just not being knowledgeable about the kind of restrictions on the organization. So the organization should really put this into a policy and educate their staff on board members about what they can’t dio another issue with the board members or officers in the organizational when they used their titles and they speak and then are identified as being what say, the president of such organization in most cases, you want teo avoid that one possible. But if identification is going to be used in that way, really have a disclaimer that it’s just for identification purposes, because, again, there needs to be a difference between, you know, joe speaking on behalf of joe it’s, president, when joe, as the president, speak on behalf of the organization. So if someone is introduced, then at an affair on and they are going to be talking about a political statement, so so let’s say, somebody introduces joe, and they say that he’s a board member of a charity and then joe goes and and gives his political opinion about whether it’s a candidate or an issue, you’re saying that the use of that charity’s name in the introduction could cause a problem it could. But again, there are ways to add more protection around that. So asking the host of the defense to put that disclaimer out there that it’s just for identification purposes, having now disclaimer language in let’s, say the event brochure just to be sure that the attendees who were coming in other outsiders who are seeing this know that it’s just being used. Teo identify this joe from another job, but it’s not actually on behalf of the organization that he people excellent advice? Is there a difference between talking about political candidates on dh political issues or they or it doesn’t matter if they’re certainly is so with this absolute prohibition? It’s a facts and circumstances, of course, many things god organizations care about are going to be related teo elections, i mean, the people who are in the office can really influence the kind of policy and, you know, laws that our leader decided, so there are some cream izabal election related activities. The best way i’ve had it described to me is that these air yellow light activities you always want to proceed with caution because of the fact that given any kind of facts and circumstances, it could cross over into this prohibited activity. So the kind of things that organizations can do with the would be activities like voter education, such a voter guide doing voter registration like we’ve seen get out the vote candidate education, so sending all the candidates to educate them, dr policy issues and also issue advocacy and if you have this in particular, is one area that organization should be cautious about as faras crossing into political campaign activities, especially if they have advocacy on certain wedge issues. So the kind of issues that really distinguish one candidate from another, such as, you know, pro life, pro choice, looking at all the facts and circumstances if an organization is only doing this in election years really close to the election that’s not going to look right to the iris, others, but if, for example, they do it all the years, including non election years made do with the same kind of mean and scope, and they’re really doing it then to highlight their charities agenda, then that’s going to be something that issue ads that is permissible okay. And again, the name of that test that the irs applies is facts and circumstances. Is that right? Yes, like most of their test way. Then you come back. Okay, well, i guess i’m context is important, but but it also that’s such a sort of a nebulous test that it doesn’t really give a lot of guidance to non-profits to charities, right? And so that’s again why these are yellow light activities. Proceed with caution certainly seek experts to help you, especially if you’re doing something that could be seen as possibly being in support or in opposition to a candidate for public office. It’s really important to note that because the rule as a friend and it comes right out of five one two three in the internal revenue code is absolute, the revocation is the penalty, so that is pretty severe. River give me revocation of charitable status. Yes, on so that’s a severe penalty that you know the death sentence, any charity? Generally speaking, you see more of intermediate penalties. And so there’s also a penalty tax that the irs can impose on the organization and managers who approved knowingly approve a political like senator. But because that way let me stop you. How does that penalty tax work tax on attacks on what so it attacks of the political expenditure. But it can be imposed on the organization, so that would be ten percent. And then it also could be imposed on a manager who knowingly approved the political senator. And that would be two point five percent of the political on does that mean the manager would be personally? Liable to pay that tax? Do you know or work in the charity? Pay it on the person’s behalf. The person would be personally liable. And there’s also a second layer of attacks that can come in if the organization does not collect it or the manager, another manager, or that the manager refuses to approve the correction. So again, there’s some serious final piece because the public charities really are not supposed to be election hearing organization there there for public purposes for the public. Good. Look, let me ask you, emily, how come things like voter education and voter registration? You mentioned how come those things are allowed? These are seen of activity that helped facilitate democracy, but the same concept, the pie again as far the organization needing to be mutual and nonpartisan. So, for example, with voter education guide, he should not be guide that rank candidate. They really should be informative so that it allows the individual to make the decision of who they will vote for voter registration again, that can’t be just targeted to certain political affiliation or, you know, some kind of group them that would be aligned more with party affiliations. Of the post suggest getting people to register so these guys really need to be fair and balanced on dh oh, my god, fair and balanced. That’s fox is to say that and then they told they can’t know that’s a bad phrase. Lynette singleton, don’t don’t tweet that out fair and balanced thes things need to be nonpartisan. They need to be neutral, right? Right? Is that it? Okay, um, something about the organization should keep in mind with all of its activities because again, they can help the facility with democracy help educate the public, but they really shouldn’t be making that decision for the public for who they vote for. Okay, what if a charity invites candidates to speak or invites a candidate to speak? How does that work if they want to have, like, a political night where the candidates themselves speak that impermissible election related activity? But again, there are certain back-up that the organization wants be sure they take care of so all candidates should be invited to speak. If you’re having something like a debate, you know each candidate should be able to have equal time to speak there should be unusual moderator creating as much of a mutual, unbiased environment as possible will be important. You know, no campaigning, far fund-raising should be taking place, and no one from the organisation should be making statements to support or oppose someone who was there. Okay, again, neutral, you even mentioned neutral moderator very good. Okay, we’re going to take a break. Emily chan is going to stay with us, of course, for our last segment, talking about your non-profit and politics and election earing. So stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to me, my chauffeur, ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit. You’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. They get non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you concerned about the future of your business or career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back. Emily chan is with me she’s one half of our regular legal contributing team of jean takagi and emily chan. And they’re both with the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco. Where is jean takagi this week? Emily? How come, she’s? Not with us? Xero jean is here. He’s taking care of some other matters that the office is busy. You know, that’s how the holidays go. Nice he’s in the office and you can’t come to the phone right away. He’s. Not in the office. Cubine is not the office. All right, you’re covering will be on the next. Okay, i keep document these things. There are records you mentioned training a couple of times, what’s what’s the best way to train employees about what the policies are so that they know that the constraints, the first step to training, i think, is having a policy, i think that’s something that many organizations don’t have when it comes, teo advocacy related work, having the organization first become aware and informed of what they need to know is so crucial to then passing on that training, too. Volunteers dafs so once they have the policy, it really just be something of going through the policy together of revisiting that every year and making sure it’s up to date with the law and making sure that that handbook essentially is acceptable to anyone who would be having access to things like the organizations, email or social media accounts or would be staffing and events. Something we haven’t talked about yet is on individuals, election choices. Can i use the charity’s email or platform and and say what i’ve, how, how i voted or how i feel about a candidate? I don’t know, not about a candidate, sorry, but can i say how i have voted or how i intend to vote that is most likely going to be viewed closer along the lines of prohibited political campaign activity, again, using the organization as a platform than to an outsider, it certainly can have the appearance of the organization itself now engaging in this prohibited political campaign activity, even if it was an intentional, really, you know, organizations should not be able to indirectly circumvent the rules, so in that case, organization should not be publicising how individual votes and individuals in the organization should not be. Using organizational resources are platform teo voice that since this fact in circumstances test is so nebulous, i’m going to guess that social media is going to be kind of a gray area, depending on what the activity is like. Like if the organization lynx let’s se teoh somebody’s into account its website. Yes, that’s correct. A social media is such a dissolving field right now, there’s a lot of uncertainties and question marks far how the wall will fall down on this, but it certainly creates more opportunity for organizations to unknowingly or even knowingly violate the rules. So the irs has suggested, basically, from most of it, revenue rulings, another information that’s coming out that it is going to hold charities responsible, for example, the links that they have established on their web site. Two other pages, so what’s item bob chat room bulletin for its face. But this is all being treated the same way printed material has been treated traditionally by the irs. Not something organization needs to be careful about, because, you know if you link to a page one day that page, maintain tomorrow and you may not know that so any kind of connection you have to outside link should be revisited and ensure that they’re not putting the organization in a bad position. How does the irs find out about these things? Do do we know? Do they randomly check oars that when somebody blows the whistle, how does how did they find out? There are many channels for which the irs will start investigating an organization. It may come from news reports from reports from the public from things that they know internally, but win organisations so out of form ten twenty three they also put their website. And so that is something that the ira certainly will look at at the initial stage, and it’s something that on record too. So there are many ways to find out what an organization is doing, especially today on and if you are let’s, say, a controversial organization, it would not be surprising them that the media would also be paying a lot of attention. He was, well, way talked about linking to candidates website. What if the organization links to all the candidates websites with that, then be election education or you think that would be over the line? It depends of course, so that the best you can always say no family depends what gene gene over here getting no, i’m joking it again. We want to look at the purpose for why they’re linking to begin with. So it’s it’s something more similar to a voter education guide where it’s saying, you know, descriptions about each candidate’s and then providing it as like a more information line that’s that’s more like, you know, neutral information being passed on to the individual. If it’s something though we’re now it seems like one candidate is getting, you know, kind of more favoritism, mama sight or, you know, kind of less exposure like you have three candidates on your main page and to that air four clicks in, so there are a lot harder to find then. Now the facts and circumstances changing there’s no real purpose for linking it. That also raises the question of why the winks or even they’re really it would depend on all the facts and circumstances for why those wings are on the page to begin with. And your answer that it depends, i think, is perfect because it is because charity’s it is a nebulous test. Facts and circumstances and charities need to be very, very cautious and risk averse. Yes, on a great point that comes out of the question to questions about the different ways that organizations can connect tio candidates. So i believe you mentioned things like friending or re tweeting or liking their pace. I mean, these are all questions that the irs is going to have to deal with. So from a more conservative standpoint, you know, organization stands, they want to be very cautious about kind of avoiding any situation that could potentially lead to being seen as a favour to them. No, again, if there’s no real purpose in doing it, it’s probably best to not put the organization at risk by testing the waters in those areas where the irs is not clear yet on how it’s going to take a position on the kind of action. Emily chan is an attorney at the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco. She’s, a principal contributor to the non-profit law block, which you’ll find at non-profit low block dot com. You can follow her on twitter at emily chan emily, thanks very much for being on again. Thank you for having me, it’s. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Give our regards to jean. I want to thank my guest this week, kristen schultz and, of course, emily chan and the net singleton thankyou for live tweeting lynette, you’ll find lynette at singleton consulting group that’s her company, and you can follow her on twitter at s c g the number four non-profits next week fund-raising throughout your life cycle, what does fund-raising look like in these stages of a non-profits life brainchild, startup adolescents, maturity, stagnation decline? And how do you avoid the last two of those stagnation in decline? We’re going to talk about fund-raising throughout your life cycle with jeff sobel principle of jeffrey sobel consulting and marrying major and planned gif ts are these two compatible? What do their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie gordy, the director of planned e-giving for harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home and consulting are going to reveal how to make this match one that’s made in heaven that was recorded pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning. Keep up with what’s coming up! Sign up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page. If you like today’s, show, please like us on facebook, click that button become a fan you can listen to tony martignetti non-profit radio live or archive on itunes that’s the place to listen archive, and you’ll find us at non-profit radio dot net. You can subscribe and listen any time on the device of your choice, you can follow me on twitter. The show’s hashtag is have said is non-profit radio, use it wisely and thanks again to our guest tweeter lynette singleton, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff. Our line producer is janice taylor. 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