106: Campaign Volunteers & Fiscal Sponsorship – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Rich Foss, consultant and author of “Greenlight Fundraising”

Gene Takagi & Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 106_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20120824.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T22:57:21.954Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2012…08…106_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20120824.mp3.235442709.json
Path to text: transcripts/2012/08/106_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20120824.txt

Hello and welcome to the show, it’s tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, how i hope you were that you were with me last week. That’s all i just hope you were here. We had grow grassroots michael o’brien, founder and principal of mob advocacy. He knows how to bring people to your cause with grassroots advocacy. How do you activate people? What are grass tops? We talked about that and how do you engage those people? Where do you go to meet potential coalition partners and what’s the added value for your work around grassroots advocacy and divine devices, desktops, laptops, tablets and handhelds? Scott koegler had tips for picking the right device to fit your budget, your work style and personality. You know him? He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news and our monthly tech contributor. Of course, this week, campaign volunteers rich foss he’s, the author of green light fund-raising we, he and i are going to talk about the importance of volunteer leadership in your campaign, how to recruit your chair and lead donor and the other volunteers you need in place and what their jobs are and has lots of descriptions and other resources that will go up on linkedin and facebook after the show today and fiscal sponsorships. Our legal team jean takagi and emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group make sense of this complicated relationship. What it is, why your office might become a sponsor or sponsoring and what that looks like and how to get started between the guests on tony’s take two big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent you’ve heard that already. Today my block this week is to encourage you to listen to the show and since that’s a paradox, i’ll have some other things to talk about other ways to connect on tony’s take two here’s the first one, of course hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter right now, we take a break, and when we return it’s campaign volunteers on rich fost will join me. I hope you stay here co-branding think dick tooting getting dink dink, dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Thank you. You could join the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna welcome back, live listener love going out new bern, north carolina? Oh, how i miss north carolina haven’t been there for a few months, but i will be there soon september welcome new bern and we’ve got more live listener love as the show goes on right now, my guest is rich fuss he’s, the author of green light fund-raising your sustainable fund-raising guide to raising fifty thousand to five hundred thousand dollars a year to light up the eyes of people you serve and your donor’s hope the book is shorter than its title. Rich he’s been in fund-raising over twenty nine years as both staff and a consultant he’s with me from rural illinois, where he’s, the leader of a mennonite community rich fast welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. I’m really glad to be here today. It’s my pleasure to have you, uh, we’re talking about campaign volunteers. What what’s the role of volunteers in a campaign about in my career, i worked with community non-profits and usually there’s only one or two development staff, and so i really wanted to develop a system that could be a multiplier for for staff and also that could really use the gold standard of fund-raising, which is, is. You raise a lot more money when you sit down face to face with somebody and describe the organization and ask them for a gift. Face-to-face and so, basically, i developed this system where you recruit volunteers and have them sit down with face-to-face with people and ask forgiveness for your non-profit and, uh, uh, not promise that have developed our have a doubt that it it’s been very special for them. Now we have a drug in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio, and i hate to do it to you in this very first segment. But you said volunteers are our multipliers for for the charity? What? Why do you what does that mean? Basically, what it means is that that a development director, even if they go out and ask forgiveness, face-to-face, uh, can only meet with so many people each week or each year, and if you have aa group of passionate volunteers, uh, bacon meet with her a lot more people in a much shorter period of time and, uh, that’s why i call it a multiplier, okay, so early parole from jog in jail, but what your step you don’t you don’t want a second offense while you’re on parole. The let’s see, i’ve heard that it’s really? I mean, volunteers and i’ve had guests say this volunteers are the leaders of the campaign. Is that do you? Do you believe that over rather than the staff of the charity? Uh, definitely definitely. And that’s why? In setting up the system, the very first step is to recruit the campaign chair person who you want to have a very influential person in your community be the campaign chair person because their leadership will influence a lot of other people to, uh, to join your campaign. And so that that leadership role is extremely important. Okay? And we’re gonna have some time to talk about how to recruit that campaign chair is as well as some other volunteers, but what’s the role of the charity’s staff in all this. Then if the if the campaign is being led by volunteers, well, basically, i describe it. The role of the the, uh, campaign staff is particularly development staff. He used to run the system. Sometimes i like in these campaigns like an ipad. The ipad spring is very simple. And yet behind it, there’s a whole lot of details. Well, what you want to do in these campaigns is to create the systems and the details in such a way that it’s very easy for the the er staff are executing the volunteers to do their work, and so that requires a lot of work, a lot of organizational detail, a lot of of of work on the part of the development. Okay, now you’ve been doing this for nearly thirty years, so you can’t always have been like getting this toe ipad. What you used to look like in tow the old pong game or what? What did you used to liking it, too? Twenty nine years ago. Oh, okay, well, i didn’t have any metaphors until i was the brother typewriter. When you push the half space key. What i love just love about those type, you know? You know there’s? No, they didn’t used to be an exclamation mark on typewriters. I’m sure you remember that, right? Right. Had you had to do a period and then a back space and then a apostrophe to get an exclamation mark and that’s my theories. Why they’re overused now because there is an exclamation keith but that’s a little bit of a digression. I suppose. We have just a couple minutes before we take a break let’s from so so the so the staff is doing the systems. I mean, they’re they’re basically they’re supporting the volunteer leadership then is that is that? I have that right. Okay, okay. Now, before we could do the campaign chair, your advice is that there be a pre campaign committee. I don’t want to spend too much time on that, but just like a minute and a half before a break, tell us about the pre campaign committee, okay? Basically, you know, a lot of community non-profits their boards don’t get formed based on fund-raising. And so when i developed the system, i decided that we needed to have a group that was focused right on fund-raising and so generally what you do in the pre campaign committee, you get together, the executive director, maybe past boardmember the current board members, people who are influential, the most influential people in your community that are connected to your organization form that that, uh, campaign committee, because basically it takes influential people to recruit influential people, and so that prepaid campaign campaign committee gets together and identifies, okay, who are? The the top five people that could serve that in our community, that could serve in that role of campaign chairperson. Of course, if you put it, if you put dick cheney on your pre campaign committee, then he’s going to want to be campaign chair. Well, if you’re lucky, there might be somebody on your on your your pre campaign committee who could serve his chair. But especially in the first year, you want to go after the absolutely best person in your community, because that’s going to make your campaign sustainable because you want to do this every year, okay, which way a person. First, it works much better the next year. Okay, we’re going to take a break. We’ll come back and talk more about the campaign pre-tax paint committee leading into the campaign chair. Stay with us, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what you’re born, teo you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven, new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower, radio, dot com for every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. We’ve got more live listener love going out to massachusetts, spencer, massachusetts and no handup massachusetts, welcome to the broadcast with rich foster. We’re talking about fiscal sorry we’re talking about campaign volunteers, which fast, you probably want to talk about fiscal sponsorship, do you? I don’t care. You have expertise. Yeah, i don’t even particularly. I’m not looking forward to it, but we are going to want to talk about campaign volunteers on dh were in our pre campaign committee. So the this group of community leaders is assembled to to choose the people who would be good prospects for the campaign chair. Correct. Okay. And you did say if the pre campaign committee should include the the executive director of the charity? Correct. All right. Is that really the only should that be the only staff person employee of the charity? You’re often the development director will also be a part of it. Okay? And then other people who are prominent in the campaign co-branded community in there, in the community. Okay, so what’s their what’s, their process this as they as they narrowed down the prospects that they move toward asking somebody, uh, basically what? They do is the first thing they do is identify probably five people, possible people and then rank them. And basically, i suggest this because, uh, i learned from my mistakes the very first campaign that i was involved with. We we identified the next best person asked that person and they said no, and that happened four times. Yeah, so that’s. A lot of disappointment for a committee of mostly volunteers. That’s, right, that’s, right. Very disconcerting and out. The fifth person said yes and ended up to be a very a very good campaign chair person. So what was the lesson lesson from that? Yes, i learned from that identified five people right away. Rank them and that way, if you if somebody says no, you don’t have to push the panic button. Okay, your committee of volunteers is not disillusioned. That’s, right? They got others to go to. Ok, it’s right on. You have some pretty specific advice about about this process and even the meeting with with the candidates. Yeah, yeah. The the recruiting of volunteers is really, really serious business tonight i have a son who played division one basketball in fact, colgate university and so i got to see first hand the basketball recruiting process, and one of those guys are highly organized, and the same charities have to do the same thing. I have to plan things out very carefully and basically, you have to identify, okay, who’s going to on this pre campaigning committee, who’s the best person to invite the person to a breakfast or lunch where they can be approach who’s the best person to ask them to be the campaign chairperson and in the there’s, a lot of details that you and i have planned out, and you’re doing this for each of your five candidates. Yes, well, you do it for the first one and and then, you know, if you have to go to the second one, you do it, but all planned. I mean, do you even recommend people sort of role, role playing or any kind of mock mock meetings? Teo, talk about you’re going to say this and she’s going to say that, etcetera, i don’t know if you need to do the role playing, but you need to identify who was going to say what you know, so that that, uh, like the reason you involve the executive director is you need to have someone who could describe the non-profit and also who can tell a powerful story about the work of a non-profit and, uh, so you basically need to figure out the roles before you before you set up the meeting, okay? Okay. And at what point should you share the the sort of job description of the campaign chair with the with the prospect? Well, i, uh i would do it verbally during during the meeting and then, uh, attended the meeting just give them the job description, ok? You don’t want to read it during them during the meeting, but you want them to have something to refer to when they’re when they’re considering it. Rich has a model job description for the campaign chair and lots of other helpful resource is we’re going to mention a couple of them, but you’ll find, ah, whole list of them around this topic of campaign volunteers on my on linked in group for the show and also on the show’s facebook page after after the show, those will be posted and rich, who lets see who i should be the person to actually make the ask at the meeting is that should not be the person who’s the the closest to them. Or should it be the executive director? Or how do you decide who actually says we invite you to be our campaign chair? You basically need to ask who is the most influential person in terms of who’s who provoc perspective, campaign chair, person who’s? Who are they most likely say yes to ok. And that’s also the campaign pre campaign committee simply asked that question and hash is without among them and that’s, the person you asked, okay? And around a giving a gift expectation for the campaign chair. Certainly the person’s going to need a campaign they have to give. Correct. What do you like to see in terms of asking what? Telling them what they’re what the charities expectation is around that in an ideal world, they would give the elite gift. Uh, but way lived in an ideal world. You’d be on a much better. Show them this way. So we know that that’s out. Okay, i would be much more fluid. Uh, so you more support thing is influence not with e-giving ability of course you want them to give you want. You prefer to get them to give a major gift they clearly have to give, but they may not be able to give at the league gift level. Okay, uh, but their primary role is to be the chief influence in the campaign. So if they’re involved, you want everyone to say, wow, this is this is an important bilich event or important campaign in our community because this person i see ok, and also they become the person that it’s hard for other people to say no to write that’s, right? Because right, because they’re going to be responsible for recruiting other volunteers and asking people for gift. So say little about that, okay, the, um the campaign chair person will be responsible for recruiting the division chairs and that’s going to vary from community community, uh, in a larger city, you might do it by, you know, geography or, you know, a suburb or by industry that’s sort of part of the planning process. But whatever divisions you come up with, there needs to be a chairperson for that debate division. And, uh, you want your campaign chair person to recruit, recruit them. Okay, right. And you want to make that somebody that it’s hard to say no to that, right? Okay, so let’s spend a little time. By the way, just listeners were talking to rich boss he’s, the author of green light fund-raising we’re talking about the use of volunteers in your campaign rich why don’t you tell people where they can find your book? Green light fund-raising that or okay, green light fund-raising dot org’s let’s talk now, since you’re starting to lead us there. But you’re not taking over the show, which for some some guests get a little presumptuous. Take over the show. You’re not taking over the show. Appreciate it. I’ll follow your lead. You’re in trouble going off a cliff. Thie let’s talk you started brought into a bigger staff of volunteers. What should that? What? It’s? A little more. Besides the division heads. What should this broader volunteer kadre look like? Okay? One of one of the things that the development director needs to do is to develop a gift charges and the gift chart basically says what level of gifts need to be asked for and received in order to achieve. The goal, and then there are are once you have that, you can identify the number of volunteers you do, and i won’t go into all the process. But basically for every gift you need, you need three prospects. Right? Okay. And you want your volunteers to, uh, ask five people for gift. So this is hyre mathematics now. Okay, it’s. Just a matter of each volunteer. No, it’s hyre math for me anyway, so every volunteer as to ask five people that’s, right? Ok. That’s, right. And so well, you can figure based on your gift chart, you can figure out what you need to talk to so many prospects. And are you okay? Tio, meet your goal and you divide that by five. And then, you know, you’re a number of volunteers, okay? And that’s another one of the resource is that we have is that is not in the list of raving. Okay, there’s there’s a, uh an excel spreadsheet that has, ah, gift shark in it. And it also includes the breakdown of volunteers. Okay, excellent. And again, you’ll find those on the linked in group for the show and also the facebook page and then those air links back to teo richie site um, now we like to see volunteers recruiting their own teams isn’t isn’t that right? Yes, rather than having them posed by the staff that’s, right? It’s basically, because, you know, this is all volunteers doing it. They’re going to have to the leaders of the team leaders we’re gonna have to yeah, you know, do some gentle pushing to get things done, and they’re going to be able to do that much better with people that they know their friends. And so you want them, you want to strongly encourage them to recruit people that they know it, and, like and trust that the charity is putting a lot of faith and trust and like into it’s volunteers? I mean, there really are e-giving a lot of responsibility to this to this volunteer. Kadre yeah, yeah, and so, you know, one of the one of the the important roles, but particularly the development director does is is built strong relationships with the campaign leaders so that the campaign league leaders know that they’re going to have the support of the staff, and it really gives them confidence in their work and that kind of flows through the whole campaign. Okay, just the important point that this really is a ah delegation to the volunteers it is it is, yeah, yeah, and part of what happens is that, you know, i emphasized over and over again is you have to tell the stories of your non-profit because these dramatic stories of either wives transformed or also of, uh, the needs of non-profits mitnick is meeting really energizes the volunteers and gives them really meaning and purpose and what they’re doing way have a segment on the next show. My guest is rochelle shoretz and she’s going to talk a lot about storytelling in rain in the second half of next week’s show. Great, because i would really encourage people will listen to that or has, uh, stories are just absolutely essential when working with volunteers, which what is it that you love about? Fund-raising it seems, lives transformed, you know, the i’ve had so many people, you know, talk to me over the years and say things like, man, i can’t do that, you know, that’s begging for me, it’s not begging, you know, i tell people, you know, a panhandler bag. A fundraiser transforms lives. Yes. Give us a story. Give tell a little story about some some life that you’ve seen transformed our lives. Yeah, i was actually influenced in developing this model by doing a capital campaign. And, uh, when i did this capital campaign, i was working for an organization that provides services to people of developmental disabilities. And, um, there were about seventy people that we had living in a nursing home, and we wanted to shut that nursing home down and make it possible for them to live in a small group, homes. And there was one guy, particularly, uh, and, uh, i want to give his name, but i would talk to him. And any time this topic came about pizza, you know me. I like peace and quiet. And he was living in an extremely noisy nursing home, you know? And, uh, i remember we did this campaign. You know, it was a tremendous dahna taking for the organization never dahna campaign before raising one point, two million dollars dahna, uh, community of, you know, seven thousand people. And i went and visited him in his new home. And that was so moving you. Know to see him, you know, getting the peace and quiet and he’s long he probably living this nursing home for twenty years or so, you know, and see his life. How has changed? It was just amazing just by having a quiet environment very touching. Yeah, rich, we have just a minute left. I’m going to hold you to that. But can you tell us what? What lesson? What a lesson that we might all take from the mennonite community around fund-raising of the mineral rights. Uh, not only do fund-raising but they’re also very action oriented. One of their one of our services called mennonite disaster surface and so many knights from all over the u s will go to places where tornadoes go through hurricanes and they’ll clean up. No, they were down in in er not bad. Duitz of louisiana, new orleans, new orleans yeah, you know, helping clean green. And i remember hearing the stories of, you know, incredible work that they did buy the good friend who is on their way. I have to stop their rich shirt rich boss is joining us from rural illinois where he’s, the leader of a mennonite community. He’s, the author of green light, fund-raising, which you’ll find at green light fund-raising dot org’s rich. Thank you so much for being on. Yeah, thankyou. Tony, i really appreciate being here. It’s been my pleasure. Thank you. Now we take a break, and when we return it’s tony’s, take two little more live listener love and then gene and emily on fiscal sponsorships. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order or a nj dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. I’m ken berger of charity navigator. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back, we got live listener love going out to laurel, maryland and also malaysia. I don’t know which city in malaysia, but laurel, maryland, malaysia welcome tony’s take to my block this week encourages people to listen to the show you are obviously already past that, so i have the advanced course for you. I want you to know that i continue the conversation from the show in the linked in group last week, i had a follow up question for michael o’brien about civil disobedience, which we didn’t get a chance to talk to talk about in his conversation around grassroots organizing, and this week, as i mentioned, the templates and other resource is from rich foss will be in that linked in group. They’ll also be on the facebook page, so next time you’re on linked in, please check out our group and join also twitter no there’s me and the hashtag, and you can follow me on twitter the hashtag of courses non-profit radio if you want to know who the guests are going to be each week, i send email alerts every thursday on the facebook page. My voice just broke thursday like i’m twelve again, um and you can sign up for those email alerts. I just said that on the facebook page and then you’ll know in advance for the guests are maybe you don’t care. I understand you may just be subscribing and you don’t really care who’s going to be on because you know that the guests are all going to be smart and that the host is in question, but you can always count on good guest. Um, i also won four square. If you want to connect with me on four square, i’ll see where you are in the world and you can see where i hang out. Check me out on foursquare and that is the end of tony’s take two for friday, august twenty fourth, the thirty sixth show of the year we have jean takagi and emily chan gene is the principle of neo, the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s g tak g ta k on twitter. Emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage she’s, principal contributor to the non-profit law blogged, and she is the american bar association’s two thousand twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer i don’t know why she’s still on the show. I’m sure she can have certain you could do better than this. Now that you have that appellation, you can follow emily chan on twitter she’s at emily chan, jean and emily welcome back. Hi, tony. Tony. Hello, emily. You’re still on that. You’re still coming on the show. Thank you for that. Everything about you for having me even if you got the prestigious award. Um, let’s. See, we’re talking about fiscal sponsorships. If there was ever if you ever needed evidence that the contributors choose the topics, this would be it fiscal sponsorships. A little little technical, but i’m willing to go into it. What is jean a fiscal sponsorship? Well, i’m gonna try to get a dog in jail. Yeah. Good luck. Were already there. Fiscal sponsorship let’s define this before out and its most common form. It’s. Really a way to start a non-profit project without creating a whole new nonprofit organizations. So basically, what happens? You’ve got a charitable project or an idea that you want to implement. You bring it to a charity willing to serve as the fiscal sponsor on who’s willing to operate that program within the organization so it becomes a negro part of that organization. And you reserve the right by contact. Be able to move the project to another physical sponsor if things don’t work out or you could even move it into your own nonprofit organization that you form once you know that the project is viable. That’s great. Thank you. Okay, you cut out a little bit. There is great incubator, i believe, is what you said, right? That’s okay, so we have the sponsor. Is it the sponsor? And the sponsoring? Is that how we should be referring to these two? Mostly referred to them as a sponsor and the proud sponsor and project. Okay, all right. We’ll keep our terms straight. Okay? And could gene could the could the project be another charity or that that’s? Not that’s, not how it works. Well, the like a smaller charity could be a smaller another charity don’t have to apply for tax exemption. Just actually running a program that you’ve introduced to another charity. And so you’re kind of head of that program. But the program is owned by the other to charity with the caveat that you, khun, take that program and bring it to another charity if the relationship sours in some way. Okay, okay, now, emily, i’m going to guess we would we would only want as a sponsor of our project. Oh, and established charity. Yes, picking the right physical sponsor is a huge part of getting the advantages of a physical sponsorship relationship, as jeanne mentioned. You know, they have a lot of control over the project. They take on a lot of responsibility generally with, like the admin and all the back office things, and they’re also managing the funds that would help fund your project that you definitely want to pick someone or excuse me of charity that has a good reputation in the community has some experience, possibly with physical sponsorship already. So they have the process is in place and one that aligned well with the mission. Otherwise you’re going to run into a certain problems. Sure. Well, and i would imagine a charity wouldn’t wouldn’t take you as a project if there wasn’t mission alignment, hopefully not. And that is a big part for the physical sponsor to be sure that they understand why. They’re taking on certain projects. Sometimes, you know, you’re so eager to want to help a charitable project that you do start to go outside of your own mission without, you know, taking care of your organization. Emerge. That’s risky. Mission creep. Mission creep. Okay, now what? Um what should a charity be looking? Oh, no, wait. I want to want to ask you, emily, you mentioned that the sponsor manages the money, so the money doesn’t belong to the project. It belongs to the sponsor. That’s correct. So entertainment in the typically a project that doesn’t already have tax exempt status, would it really make sense in that situation? So essentially, the physical sponsor is taking in money for the charitable purposes of the project, but that sinful sponsor, in order to not essentially acted like a conduit or to collapse and basically give money teo, non exempt entity. They have to have discretion and control over the funds. So there’s a certain level of oversight that the physical sponsors should be exercising with the project to make sure that it’s no operating properly, that the money being used the right way and that at every juncture, essentially when it does. You use the money to fund a project that is making that decision as opposed to just letting it pass through. Okay. And when you refer to the non exempt entity that’s, the that’s, the project. Right. Okay. Okay, let’s, stay with you, emily. So what’s the advantage for an existing charity cause our clients. Sorry. Our listeners are our charities mostly. And when you guys were first on the very first show that you two were on, we talked about alternatives to creating a new five. Oh, one c three charity. And we just barely touched on this subject. S o we have we have talked about altum other alternatives to creating a charity, but what’s the advantage to an established charity. Emily tbe a fiscal sponsor of projects for the fiscal sponsor it’s really about furthering that sponsored mission. So again, we talked about mission alignment. If you find projects that further, you know, the charitable purpose of your organization, not a huge benefit for the physical sponsor. Additionally, they do take generally a cut of the funds to take care of that back office stuff. I mean, they’re taken care of let’s. Say, you know payroll, you know, their insurance, maybe covering the project. All of these things take some money as well. It’s not really a money maker again. It really should be about furthering the mission. The charitable mission of the existing sponsor. But they do take some money generally in order to cover their cost. Ok. So now, gene, i assume we can just look to the internal revenue code and that will lay out these fiscal sponsorship responsibilities and relationships. Actually, no tony physical sponsor ship is not defined in any laws. I don’t think any state laws and definitely not in the internal revenue code so it’s all about the contract. So we want to make sure that you’re working with an established sponsor who can establish the right contacts to comply under the regular five a onesie, three rules. Holy cow. All right. So eyes. So there must be things that are supposed to be in these contracts. And again, were you know, our listeners are are the charities. So if somebody’s going to take this on this fiscal sponsorship because they do see mission alignment and the things that emily described? What what’s your advice around creating this? Contract if there’s there’s no statutes governing this relationship well, this may sound a little funny, but you’ve got to talk to the lawyers think this arrangement for the does that lawyer have to be the outstanding young lawyer of twenty twelve from the american bar association? You can’t go wrong with that, right? That’s what you absolutely cannot just outstanding and it’s in the title, so we know, but in case you don’t happen to have access to emily, although through the internet there’s no reason anybody shouldn’t be hiring emily, but you’re right, so you definitely this is definitely a legal relationship, and you need a lawyer drafting this contract, right? And to understand your responsibilities as a sponsor, there’s a great book out there from a no attorney colleague of ours, greg colvin called physical sponsorship six ways to do it right. And there’s, a organization called the national network of fiscal sponsors that publishes guidelines for fiscal sponsors and their best practices, including what they put into a physical sponsorship, agreements and policies. Those are definitely things that wanted checked out. Okay, and how does your friend, your colleague, spell his last name? Greg coben, ceo b i n okay. The guru of fiscal okay. Six ways to do it right. But there’s probably dozens of scores of ways to do it wrong. I’m sure in fact we actually put out a block both staying six days to do it wrong. So they definitely are. Did you? Okay, let sze not a copyright infringement. Wait, you do intellectual property work over there in the non-profit exempt organizations law group, not it out you don’t that’s. Very convenient. Okay, so it could very well be a copyright infringement. No, i’m sure it’s not a lawyer now. It’s fair. You some sure or something? I don’t know who does. Okay, so, emily let’s go into a little detail about structures around this sponsor project relationship and just we have about two minutes before first break. So what? What does it look like? Yeah, the structures, there’s models? Yes, there are. There are a handful model that actually comes out of that book that great colden. I wrote that gene mentioned the most popular one is the one that we we’ve been discussing. Model a also called the comprehensive or excuse me. Comprehensive physicals, sponsorship or direct project and it’s, when the charity basically houses the project, okay, in terms of all the management and the insurance and all that, all those things that you laid out, right, so it would be just like any other program it’s operating. Except for that caveat that is a relationship to find my contract. And there is a contemplation that the project may leave at some point. Ok, i don’t model a not a very clever name. I mean, i thought great could come up with something better than model a, but we’ll work with it. He’s the he’s, the guru. So we’ll work within his his, uh, sort of lacklustre. Um, his his, uh what i want to call this this is the, uh uh, i can’t think of the word i’ll think of it later. Okay, um and so all these things that you talked about before these all have to be in the contract, right? In terms of management responsibilities and insurance and oversight and all this it should be. And again, it just helps to lay out exactly what this relationship is going to look like because of the fact that it’s defined by the contract, i mean any pickles sponsorship could look a little different from another one. That is important to contemplate as much as possible at the outset as opposed to finding those problems. When you start trying to do this, ok. And the one that interested me, that gene mentioned a couple times is the right to leave the, uh, leave the, uh the the sponsor. Yeah. So that’s, very important for both the project on the sponsor to understand what terms and conditions might apply for that. So in some cases, maybe this sponsor is going to require that the project finds another five oh, one c three entity to house it. Maybe they’re willing, teo, do some other kind of due diligence to grant those funds that they held for those charitable purposes to the project. These are all things that you really want to think about beforehand. Ok, ok. Rubric. That was the word i was looking for. Model a is a rubric. This all falls under the rubric of model a i do. It was the board would come to me rubric. Of course, we’re going to take a break. And when we return, gene and emily stay with me. And we continue talking about fiscal sponsorships. That’s, another rubric. Com. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop, second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it, aspire, athletic, insulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back. We’re talking. Toa jean takagi and emily chan are regular legal contributors about fiscal sponsorship. I want to send live listener love out to little wet british columbia, canada, and i apologize if from mispronouncing it, if it’s in the way or something different than i just said it, i apologize. We got last week, we had ontario in ottawa, where’s, where’s, saskatchewan. Why is saskatchewan in manitoba? Never checked in alberta? Never checked in. We need to get these provinces listening live gene let’s, turn to you and see what else we might flush out about other models around fiscal sponsorship. So since we have the very rich model, eh, there must be a model b. There are the model ate a model at the rubric. Okay, rubrics, the lackluster rubrics. I’m sorry. I’m sorry for your colleague. I’ll stop calling them lackluster. So okay, what does model be matter or or his model? See better than be? Or how does this work? Well, model is by far the most common form. Okay? I was believed to be that in, like, eighty to ninety percent of the cases. The next biggest is model b, which is called a preapproved brandt relationship models this is you cut out a little bit there. This is model season charlie model using bravo baizman bravo is not as popular as sees charlie that’s. Right? So shouldn’t see bebe. It kind of flows from the structure of the i don’t know if we can recommend this book anymore. No obstacle. Ok, tell us about model charlie model charlie is the way that an existing non-profit that still doesn’t have tax exempt status, perhaps it’s a fight to the irs but hasn’t received determination yet. Khun starts to get fun now. The sponsor can act as an intermediary if you will receiving grants intended for the project, but foundations aren’t willing to. That project until it has its own five. Oh, one team status. So it gives it to the fiscal sponsor. The fiscal sponsor re granted to the project. But it has to use its own expression and control in order to make that re grant. The foundation’s put the onus on the fiscal sponsor to do all the due diligence. Okay, emily, how does this differ from model a alfa? I’m in a lot of ways, actually. So going back to model a it’s, the project is not its own entity. It’s really? Just a program, essentially that’s being operated by the fiscal sponsors. So all the employees, all the volunteers, all the liability, it’ll sit with the physical sponsor model. See, you have more separation. So he mentioned that its own entity now the project. Maybe. You know, it’s, just the taxable corporation. It might be in its period right now. Where? It’s, waiting for its five twenty three determination. So a lot of more of the liability from that program that it’s running a charitable project with the entity. The other entity, not the physical sponsor. Okay, so this is it. Shifting the responsibility is different. That’s how? It’s different than a okay, emily, what are some examples of fiscal sponsors like could could’ve come? It is a community foundation of fiscal sponsor or could it be? It could be they’re really as there is no riel limitation on who could be or what type of entity could be a physical sponsor. Generally speaking, you see it more calmly and just five a onesie three entities, because they’re able to get those contributions that can offer a tax deduction to individuals as well as bring in some private foundation grant. So you see it a lot with five eleven three entities, but as far as the mission of those entities or what it is that they’re doing this there’s no limitation on that, okay? And just we have just a minute left. Emily, where do we usually see this conversation begin? Does it does it start with the ceo of the of the sponsor thinking about bringing in projects or just started the board level where i think it actually starts with the project approaching on today’s out there that either have already decided to do it? But i think most commonly, it might start with the project. That is looking for a physical sponsor. Gene could shed somewhere like him and he actually sits on the board of community initiative, which is a physical. Okay, jean, we have just thirty seconds. Do you want to shed some light as emily cast it upon you? Sure, there’s a website called fiscal sponsored directory dot org’s, which is a good place to find a physical sponsor in your area or in your eyes. Area service. So that’s a good face to go to community foundations often engage in sponsorships and sometimes there sponsoring a project that our collaboration amongst many existing non-profit organization okay, we have to leave. I’m sorry, we have to leave it there. But that website again was fiscal sponsored directory dot org’s jean takagi. Principle of neo non-profit exempt organizations law group emily chan and attorney at neo-sage even emily, thank you very much. It’s. Always a pleasure will talk to you next month. And also, of course, want to thank rich fast for being on the show next week. We’re pre recorded because i’ll be on vacation in beautiful block island, rhode island next week. We’ll have. I had a great interview, but i didn’t get the job suzanne felder was with me at fund-raising day this past june. She’s, a consultant in outplacement for lee hecht harrison and she has advice around job search. Then, as i mentioned earlier storytelling with rochelle shoretz, founder and executive director of shark charette, they have built a culture of compassionate storytelling to help their members through their cancer diagnoses and treatments. Rochelle will have really valuable ideas on helping your charity create stories and who’s best to tell them, and she has her own touching story as a two time breast cancer survivor. Come, i want to shut out one more live listener love right here in the studio, indianapolis, indiana in the studio actually, carmel, indiana, to be exact live listener love in the studio, you know that i host a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy? Did you know that? Did you know i do it’s fund-raising fundamentals? That one is a ten minute monthly podcast and it’s on ly devoted to fund-raising topics i have a summer siri’s going on on grantspace eking the latest is building relationship with foundation program officers, and the first two were researching foundations and writing winning proposals. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals you’ll find on the chronicle of philanthropy website. You’ll also find it on itunes, continuing to wish you good luck. The way performers do around the world last week was chalk us, which means chicken in australia, in slang australian do you remember why they say chicken? You’re gonna have to go back and listen, i don’t have time to tell you today from spain monisha merida, a lot of ship, it comes from the success of a play. People would arrive at shows by carriage and what pulls a carriage, horses and what their horses leave behind shit. So the more of that you have, the better your show is. So i wish you much mierda for the week. Our creative producers claire meyerhoff, with this kind of content it’s hard to believe we have a creative producer, actually. But there is actually is one but she’s not responsible for these language lessons and this performing that comes from janice taylor. So i want to thank janice taylor. Sam liebowitz is today’s line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, how i hope you will be with me next week. One, two, two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Durney dahna. I think a good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get anything. Cubine hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks. Been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Buy-in you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Dahna

074: Podcasting Primer & Twitter Organization Pages – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

John Federico, principal of The New Rules

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 074_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_01132012.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T22:48:40.818Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2012…01…074_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_01132012.mp3.563575779.json
Path to text: transcripts/2012/01/074_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_01132012.txt

Metoo hello and welcome to the show it’s friday, january thirteenth, two thousand twelve this is tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Were you with me last week? If you weren’t, you missed three next-gen charity interviews abby falik is the ceo of global citizen year, and she had thoughts about innovation and leadership for social change. Charles best leads donors choose dot or ge where teachers post their classroom needs, and he and i talked about connecting donors to the causes they support. And wally collins is an author and stand up comic, and he wants you to live a regret list life after those three pre recorded interviews, it was your two thousand twelve prospect plan maria simple, our regular prospect research contributor, helped you devise a sensible and execute herbal prospect plan for the new year this week. Podcasting primer john federico principle of the new rules is going to share what podcasting is, how to do it to support the outreach of your non-profit how do you get started? With budget gear, content format distribution, going to talk about all that may be it will. Induce you to start your own internet radio show, but don’t call it tony martignetti non-profit radio no point in treating on that name it has no equity. Also your two thousand twelve prospect plan. Scott koegler is our regular tech contributor, he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news. We’re going to talk about twitter organization pages. What are they? Should you jump in? And if you should, how do you get started between the guests? Tony’s, take two on my block this week is my next-gen charity interviews part three i’ll tell you about the three video interviews that are up this week. We’re live tweeting the show and we have a guest live tweeter dan blakemore dan hello out there, he’s, a professional fundraiser in new york city. You could follow him at dan underscore blakemore and to join the conversation on twitter with us use hashtag non-profit radio dan, thanks for joining us. This show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services, and i’m very grateful for their support. Right now. We take a break when we returned john federico and podcasting primer, so stay with me. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Cerini are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com no. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Always big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My guest now, john federico, is principal of the new rules. John is known in digital media circles for innovation, his expert perspective and bottom line results very importantly. Formerly the senior director of podcasting for audible, where he created and manage the company’s podcasting business unit. He’s, the host and executive producer of on digital media. A podcast about the technology, creation, distribution, consumption and monetization of digital media. And it has over twenty thousand listeners. John is also the remote producer of this very show. Very pleased to welcome him and talk about his work in the studio. John welcome. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you in the studio rather than remote. Yes, exactly. We’re not surrounded by hundreds of conference goers in any time. It’s. Nice that’s. Right. Thanks to quiet here. Just just sam and janice are listening in for those who are listening live and may not know what is podcasting? Well, podcasting began as as a method of distributing digital media starting originally audio in an automated fashion. And that was the difference between posting a sound file somewhere on the internet and having someone to go get it versus having it automatically show up in your computer and even sometimes automatically show up on a portable device so that you could listen to it in your car, on the train, in the subway, that sort of thing. Okay, so it was the automated distribution that sort of made podcasting what it is you mentioned. Audiobook could be video also could also be video. Yes, audio. You know, this was let’s. See, podcasting was two thousand five and so pushing around pushing around video files was not like it is today. It was pre youtube, and so audio was was kind of the thing, especially since one of the people who originated podcasting was it was an old radio show host s o it was sort of a natural thing for him to record audio. Okay, tell us that what’s that history two people actually one of the technical side, one on the well also technical but somewhat creative man by the name of david dave winer. If you know technologists might know dave, he was the creator of this technology called r s s and it was it was the used as the platform for delivering these audio files. And the other person was and i’m sorry. Jargon, dja that’s, right. He’s told me, raised right here. Actually, he’s knows he’s in charge in jail right now for our i know that. And actually, no one really knows what our stance for has that because there are lots of interpretations. Really simple syndication is the most common is the most common use of the term. And explain what our senses briefly s oh, oh, gosh. I have to think of think of ourselves as email and think of the audio or video files that come with it as attachments. Okay. That’s, that’s, the simplest that’s it that’s a good lehman’s, you know. So, um, i meant instrumental model. A method of distributing audio. Exactly. Okay, exactly. It’s it’s it’s. A method of distributing of distributing the thiss media jargon, jailed aggression, right back to the history. And the other person was adam curry. You may know adam from him from his mtv days in the big hair and all that and adam’s always been very involved in technology. And the two of them collaborated and more or less delivered the first podcast, and that’s that’s sort of how it was born. Okay, and do we know if podcasting that that term comes from the ipod? It does. It does early, early on. You know, we all know that apple protects his trade, its trademarks pretty aggressively. And so early on, people didn’t want to claim it was podcast because they were afraid that that apple would shut it down. But yes, that is definitely words from okay, what’s the value for a non-profit in podcasting. Well, let’s, put this way. Let’s take it in a different direction. I’ll answer with a question like this he takes over the show. Then i can’t help it. I would go to a break if you keep this up. I’m gonna go to a break, sees podcasting has no breaks because, you know, we create the mess. We’re taking a break. We’re going to take that right now though blakemore e, i want you to tweet this that the show’s being hijacked. Okay, go ahead. Alright. So very simply. If you’re a non-profit and i gave you some airtime, what would you do with it? Right? So the first response to me this is great, you know, i can’t say i have a have a commercial now you don’t have a commercial. I’m giving you thirty to sixty minutes of airtime that where you can, you can get your message across and you can activate your donors and your volunteers and your alumni and all those people. What would you do with it? And that’s? Really? That’s let’s. Leave it there. Ok. What would you do with it? What could you do with it? That’s? Pretty wide open that’s. Right? You can use it to tell your story. Okay? So if we’re if we’re thinking about embarking on podcast and we just have a minute before break what? What might some of the objectives be? Some of our goals. That’s? Well, that’s definitely where we would start. So you know, if you now that you have this opportunity, what will you do with it? Well, start with your goals is fund-raising a primary goal is activating your volunteer your volunteer bases that your primary goal is it reaching out tio peoples on behalf of a cause to contact their congressman? You know that it could be that sort of campaign what what is it that you’re looking to accomplish over any period of time? So let’s, just say, starting with your first six months, you know, start with those goals and then work backwards, okay, we’re going to take a break. Dan blakemore, live tweeting for us to join this conversation used the hashtag non-profit radio. Of course, john stays with us talking about podcasting primer, and i hope you do, too. E-giving didn’t think tooting, getting demanding things. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. E-giving good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Oppcoll hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed on montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt. Y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Schnoll lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Welcome back. We’re talking about podcasting. Primer with john. Federico. Um, is this something that small non-profits should be afraid of or can kind of smaller midsize shop get into podcasting? Oh, i mean, anyone can can produce a podcast and distributing podcast is a matter of fact. When you know, you open up your apple itunes and tune in and see all those big names and, you know, in media companies, you know what? You could be right alongside them with very little work involved. A little commitment, but but not a whole lot of work. Okay, let’s, talk a little about the commitment. What? What does it take? Well, let’s say we go back to our first point, right? Figure out your goals. So once you’ve got that all figured out now, we’ve talked about format, right? So okay, let’s, just say i’m going to make up to make something up. You and i talked on the phone last week and i made up a non-profit so i happen to like pets. So let’s say, it’s ah it’s a local rescue. Actually, i have a cocker spaniel rescue here that we got our last doc. So it’s a cocker spaniel rescue. Okay. And so this this rescue their job, of course, is to get their pets adopted. And so what’s in many ways, what’s. A good way of doing that well, let’s, create a format. Let’s say the format is too featured the backstory of each of the dogs that get brought into the shelter every time they come in and even better let’s make it video and audio. Right? I can do this right with the camera on my phone, right with my phone and we can have let’s say it’s nice to have some continuity. So maybe we’ll have the director of the non-profit or of the shelter. She’ll actually tell the story of each of the animals as as they come in the shelter. And then, of course, provide what? What? What’s the key messages there then at the end, how they can adopt this dog. What the title docks. Temperament is where they can pick the dog up, etcetera. Wonderful. And, of course, she can solicit donations. Perfect it’s short, you can probably tell a dog’s story and two to three minutes and you can do that on a regular basis or an ad. Hoc basis, right. So now there’s our format, and even better, you can take the audio file from that video and produce an audio podcast is, well, now you’ve got two ways of reaching people, right, so you have your goals. You have your format, and ultimately you have a schedule or not. It could be at hakkas, i said. So once it’s. So now let’s talk a bit about the tools to make that happen. I i just mentioned a phone. Yes, actually. Tony, what do you want? That or for g that? Yes, i have an iphone for as fundez support. May i have a three g s and tony? What do you use me? When we recorded conferences, i record into. Yes, a speaking as remote for producer. Now i’m answering questions. Are he’s questioning me as remote producer? The content gets recorded onto the phone. We have ah, remote. We have mike. So we have headsets and the mixing board. And it all goes into my three g s phone through an app called fire right now. Uh, that’s, that’s pretty elaborate set up, but really, you know, you and you’ve done this in a coffee shop, having you at the last minute. This the microphone on this phone is absolutely perfect for recording audio interviews so that you and i we’re going to sit down and have a conversation. I could hold it up to your mouth and hold it up to my mouth. Or i could she laid here on the table like this. And let it record away. And guess what, we’ve got a show it’s a matter of fact, the podcast i started producing back in two thousand five began when i and a group of my colleagues went to lunch one day, and of course, we always like to talk shop and i said, you know, this would make a great podcast. We just stuck a microphone in the middle is to be a lot of fun and two weeks later, that’s what we did, everyone came teo to my home studio and we cracked open a couple of bottles of wine and and that’s what we did. And we recorded our first podcast. So what? We started broadcasting here. We don’t have we never had wine here talking alternative. So i got screwed. Essentially i got i got talking alternative owes me two bottles of wine. I’ll take a red and a white i zinfandel and sauvignon blanc. Let me just explain to people what you want. Things you mentioned that i had done this in a coffee shop. There was there was a schedule mix up. And i had a guest here and she wasn’t gonna be available any other time so i did exactly what john just said. I took my phone and did an interview with her and then brought that audio just from the phone here to the studio, and we used it on the show. Yeah, and so so that’s just one way of saying you don’t need to spend a lot of money. In fact, if you own one of these phones, you don’t need to spend any more money, right? So record the audio on dh let’s say it’s good enough for production. You know, you don’t want to worry about taking out the gums and oz because i typically don’t i don’t do that anymore. Now you’ve got this audio file and all you had was your phone. So now now you have to have some place to put it. So to generate this thing called on rcs feed, right? Which i hate using the jargon, but so you need the best way to do that is to use block software so you would need to have a block where you could walk software. Meaning, like wordpress, like wordpress, wordpress blogger any anything that any arm? Ah, any software that produces an rcs feed will do on typically block software does that thing in this day and age, you won’t find block software that does not output a valid rcs feed. We’ve talked about non-profit, blog’s and wordpress versus blogger and other sites, so we’ve we’ve covered that. But go ahead. We want youto talkabout your broadcasting on the block. So so now, instead of distributing articles that you write, you’re distributing audio files by uploading these audio files for all intents and purposes to your block and when, when people subscribe here are ss feed they get so they get the what it called enclosures, or the audio files or video files with it. So again, think about the rcs feed is your email. Think about the enclosures, your attachments and that’s how it arrives on for people to consume. Okay, this is sounding ex, getting a little technical, trying to keep it as simple is like most people get email, but to do yeah, all those people on the shame what an attachment is, right? I’m hoping that helps. Oh, it does. So i think the explanation is simple. I mean, the actual doing of this is this something that a non-profit without experience now that they’ve produced their first audio podcast on their phone, khun do on their own absolutely absolutely it’s. In some cases, plug ins are required, and again, we’re getting a little little nerdy, but you can go get a free blogged on blogger dot com, which is a google product. You can create a block post. Tell the instruct blogger where the audio file lives. In many cases you could just uploaded to blogger, or you can put it somewhere else on the that’s a simple upload like you might upload photos, jack a similar process, similar very similar process. You find that on your hard drive clicks, you know, selected, click, upload, wait for it to get up there and then once that’s done, you publish it so it’s it’s not that difficult, not as difficult as people think and actually, tony. Okay, getting backto. I set, i help you set up your podcast, right? And, you know, once i showed it to you, what was your answer? Well, that was easy we can do this weekend is all right. And i would. And as you’ve said before, you know you’re you know, the tools of your trade, but you’re not exactly, you know, a technologist. So nothing. Nothing? Incredibly. Yeah. The only thing i boast about is that i i’m not afraid of the technology, so you don’t want people to be fearful of it, and i don’t understand it anywhere near the level you do, but i’m not afraid of it. I actually kind of enjoyed working with it, but i need some hand holding. Yes. Okay, so so but it’s all it’s, all manageable. Andi understandable. Um, so we could do and you mention the phone. I mean, someone could do audio well as video, right? The video doesn’t have to be high end video to be interesting and compelling until the tell the story of the back story of the dog’s life. Right. Exactly. I mean, it could be, you know, these phones that we have here produce very high quality video, but you don’t necessarily need that, you know. Ah, simple, actually. The three gs produces vj video that’s that’s. Perfectly suitable. Okay. And there’s produces a little better, right? Yeah, this does full hd, but that’s, you know, he’s. Not going to boast, but all remind people in case you need to say the first time he has the four of us, but okay, so i just wanted people think of it doesn’t have to be to recognize that there’s got to be spotlights and and full production value. This could be just very heartfelt and and simply produced absolutely and especially, i would think using our using our cocker spaniel rescue was an example, you know? I mean, what are the most? What are the most shared videos on the internet? Well, typically cats and pets, right? So, you know, a cute animal with a sad story that needs a home? You know what? It doesn’t have to be hollywood, right? It’s enough just it’ll probably get the job done. I’m talking to john, federico and he’s, principal of the new rules, which you’ll find at new rules dot com we’re talking about podcasting primer, hoping to encourage non-profits teo think about podcasting is a way of supporting while their other social media work um, let’s just talk a little about maybe doing this remotely. So if you’re not just going to in terms of maybe budget and gear, if you’re not going to do it just in your premises. But you want to do something remote, maybe at an event, andi want to have a little little set up at a at a gala, perhaps to do some interviews of donors and and board members what might be involved with doing something remote versus in your own office? Well, the tools i just described would work remotely, right? But some of that then comes down to a little sizzle. Little little possess a little bit about presenting this media opportunity. Two people attending your gala as a big deal, right? So i would say that it’s nice. If if i were you, i would i would set up a tripod. I would it wouldn’t hurt to get a mic flag, right, mike? Fuck is that thing that news reporters have on their on their microphones so that it has the name of their of usually of the television station, right? And i might have some lights right on, and obviously, i would have a cat someone operate the camera so that you yourself can focus on the real reason why you’re there, which is to possibly interview the people who are attending your gala. Maybe it’s your donor’s, maybe it’s it’s volunteers, whoever it might be. Okay, but the tools of the trade don’t don’t differ very much, you know you have when you struck it into, like noisy environments like we experience unconference is you need a certain kind of microphone. Some microphones work better than others. Right? Um but but for the most part, you can. You can you can use your phone, right? Okay. I i wanted to go just to the next level for people that might short be curious about that. But you made the point in the beginning and the end, the phone is still adequate. Yeah, as long as you have ah, fairly quiet place too to record the phone still works in a remote yes, you know, one thing to point out one day i will point out is that there is a balance between quality and in content, quality of the recording and the quality of the content. I have listened to some podcast that i wanted to listen to, really, i generally wanted to listen to, and i finally had to delete them and get rid of them because the audio quality was so bad that it was just it was just it was grating on my nerves, and i couldn’t do it, so it doesn’t have to be perfect. But, you know, you don’t necessary don’t want something that has, you know, audio rah pouts and skips and weirdness in the audio and all of that. So, you know, just strike that balance, but again, it doesn’t have to be hollywood quality. We have a question from at wild woman fund-raising zoho i know is measuring treyz she’s been a guest here, she’s she wants to ask what you’d recommend for people who don’t use an iphone. Well, more importantly, i okay, well, i guess i’ll look he’s always perverted there’s contorting the questions thiss guy doesn’t answer a straight question like he’s under cross examination or something. Well, let me answer this question instead. Well, alright, mazarene don’t worry, i’m gonna hold him two feet to the fire. I live that i’m getting back my job aren’t my show is panel style, so i have four to six people in any time, so you’re not there now raining joint anymore, you know? I know, i know. Okay, so good. So ok. The flipside, of course, is any smartphone, so an android or windows phone would also work, but the real so i guess the real question is if you don’t have a smart phone, if you have an android phone, other applications for it windows phone same. If you have say, a feature phoned like a regular flip phone, you actually there are there are services available where you khun dial in and record using. You can record audio using that phone using nothing but the telephone line. The quality’s not so good. Thiss block talk radio is that an example? That’s one example. That’s there’s, another one called talks you talk shoe talk. Shoo. Shh. Okay, on da and they’re all you know, they’re ok. They’re telephone quality, but you’re it was a matter fact. I don’t know which service it was, but the show i just described that i wanted to listen to, it was recorded on one of those services and it’s not it’s, not a dig on the services themselves. It’s the fact that you’re dealing with telephones, right, your link with telephone quality audio and in many cases, you’re dealing with voice over ip, like, you know, telephone calls that occur over the internet, and so things drop out and stuff and that’s just, you know, part of the technology, okay? But we want to try to stay away from the lower quality is you’re saying there is that balance there’s a balance there’s definitely a bounce labbate, you know, and and sometimes if you’re if what you’re saying and what you’re presenting is just so compelling many times, people will ignore it. True enough, but it yes, it’s too much trouble to listen to. All right, mazarene i think we got that. Way. Got a satisfactory answer out of him. Let’s, talk about some distribution. You talk about rs s doing that doing the distribution through your blogged but there’s places like youtube. If you’re doing video or itunes let’s, talk a little about some other distribution channels in just a couple minutes. We have left. Sure. So the simple answer i should say that the simple thing to focus on right now is ours. Many people in in, you know, the business of podcasting upset our recess is dead. And in some respects, it is in term, in the meaning that it’s not put in front of the consumer anymore. And it shouldn’t be right. It should just happen in the background. No one should know what our senses it’s just work. So but if you would like to appear in places like the itunes podcast directory or even the zune marketplace, right, which is for windows, phones and other things that zoon has expelled. Z. You any okay? Zune used to be a device that microsoft produced. They no longer do. But the marketplace is still there. Um, the only way to get in those directories isto have a valid rcs feed so that’s very important that’s and that’s for audio and video. Just as importantly, if you’re if you’re distributing video, don’t just rely on youtube. If you want to get on devices like the like raku, raku set top boxes and get one of their, they have up channels there where you can create your own channel on roku box, you have to do it using s s, but distribution is is obviously critical, and our sex is the best way to get yourself found and distributed. Okay, i have ah, some some results from our pre show listener survey, and while i’m going through these, i’m going to ask you to think about the question also from at wild woman fund recommend a particular flip? Would you recommend a flip camera over talk shoe? And while you’re thinking about that, how many people in the audience listen to audio podcast about seventy percent and the other, you know that there do not? Do you put recording gear into the hands of those who serve your populations so they can show off the work that they do on ly ten percent doing it with video gear and the rest are not putting here putting stuff into their into the hands of volunteers and employees actually doing the work of the non-profit and who’s active in youtube, only about twenty percent then it’s split between forty percent that don’t have a youtube channel it all and the remaining forty percent who have won but are not keeping it current so well, disappointing in terms of the especially the last one. The distribution on and also let’s get mohr podcasting into the hands of people who are doing the work as there as they’re meeting your constituents doing your good work let’s have them documenting it and sharing it. Absolutely. How about mazarene question? Would you recommend a flip camera over talks? You so that’s that’s essentially what i recommend talk she was ah, is a live broadcast thing with the telephone. A flip cam? Absolutely. The audio. The audio quality and video quality on those devices are excellent and there’s there’s absolutely nothing wrong with him. I happen to be a fan of the kodak zia models or any of the any of the c i x models. Whatever they are there’s a new one that just came out. And they’re great, and they allow, even for a microphone, have a microphone, jack so you can record video and still get very good audio using an external microphone. I can vouch for those because we use those on our remote. And john federico is the producer of this show, he’s, also more importantly, principal of the new rules, which you will find at new rules. Dot com. We have to leave it there. John federico, thanks very much for coming to studio. Thanks for having me telling great pleasure. We’ll take a break when we come back. A very abbreviated tony’s take to stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Yeah. Welcome back to big eyed big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio. Scott koegler are you out there? I’m here tell me, it’s, good to talk to you, scott koegler is our regular tech contributor, he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, and we’re talking today about twitter organization pages. Yes, we are okay, what’s, what’s new over in twitter well, organizational pages, now that you ask, yes, there’s something that people have have been kind of asking for ever since facebook allowed youto put up a business page or some kind of page about your organization, and and especially since google now has a similar kind of pages where you can actually not just be a person who could be a business or organization non-profit and talk about the entity rather than the person. So the the idea, wass and guess has come to fruition that twitter instead of having a personal information page, which, of course we want seen now has the ability to make an organizational page and so that’s come, you know, come to life that’s there are these essentially the same as the personal page it’s just allowed. Now for organizations or is it a different format? It’s slightly different, i’ve looked at a few of them and for the life of me, um, it’s tough to tell the difference in the format overall because if you have, if somebody has put together a highly customized personal page, if we’d taken the time to do that, it’s pretty obvious that they could have also done a customized business page. So personally, i’m not really enthused about it, but okay, you’re not so enthused, i’m not okay tell tell us why. Well, for a couple of weeks but let’s talk about what it does for ok, give me that kind of thing, why it’s there and what it’s for? And then i’ll tell you why i don’t think everybody’s taking over the show today, you may as well is also good that’s a total hijack. Damn blakemore, i want this documented on twitter. So twitter is you know that twitter pages, they’re easy to set up you khun, you go in there and you can identify non-profit you could put your message up there. I think the most important part of it aside from just co-branding put in here. Their logo on some links along the left hand side that allow people that visit that page to go where you want them to go is that you can also take tweets or postings and make them sticking you khun have them stay there at the top of the page, visible first for essentially as long as you like. Of course, if you follow a twitter stream on your own on your own page, you know that twitter messages come and go pretty quickly, depending on you’re following, right? So you can pick one one tweet tb stickies that how does i believe that there are some number of tweets? I don’t know exactly what the number is, but it’s more than one and probably less than a hundred, but you can say these messages, but i want people to see when they come to the page. Okay, so if you feel you’ve been particularly insightful or descriptive of your organizations, work in one or maybe a couple of hundred forty character posts, then those are the ones you can choose to be sticky is is that it? Yes, and i believe that it’s available for any tweet, not just your own ok, you have a somebody who tweeted cubine service is great and i love you guys. You really do wonderful things in the world. You khun you know, make that sticky and let the rest of the world see it without having that have passed by, you know, out of recognition in about five minutes. Okay? Do you know if the’s organization pages allow multiple administrators? They do? Actually, how does that work? Um, well, pretty well, um, you know, there’s there’s, lots of tools around that external twitter that allow you to do that. So i don’t really count that as a new future, maybe move built into twitter but, uh, things like, i think, sees mick and tweet deck and there’s, another one called market new suite, and those allowed groups of people to manage put it postings, streams, that kind of thing, okay, from very high end applications that are for large corporations that, you know more than just allow you to post, uh, multiple people post they actually do cem statistical analysis and they say what tweets has been recognized, what’s been retweeted all those kind of things, and so so yes, um, multiple people posting to a twitter stream is something that really has been done for a while, okay? Let’s talk just ah, briefly, i think about the analytics of this. I mean, there are ways of a cz you just mentioned finding out what’s gotten the most play or what the most retweets in the and to use their to use their language and seeing what’s basically what’s most popular, right, right, right and echoes a couple of measurements of that one is how many retweets did a particular comment get? Of course that you know, that’s when something goes viral, real popular and, you know, the first person tweeted it and there was five people tweeted it to their friends and then on from there, and it takes off so there are tools, and i wish i could tell you which which ones they were, but i’m just not that well versed on on which tools are around to do that. But i can tell you that, uh, there are many of them, certainly more than a dozen some of them do very, very deep analytics in a group setting. I don’t how much you want to talk about this? Portion of the group setting where you have multiple people managing a twitter stream, it becomes important which of those people are active in which are not which of those people are contributing tweets that get tweeted and recognized, commented on and which are not oh, excellent. All right, so you can cross analyzed across you can analyze across different contributors within your organization exactly, and that becomes really important. I mean, if you want to incentivize the people that are managing that forty becomes real important if you just want to weed out the staff, you know, same thing you want to know who’s the champ, right? Excellent. Scott, since we’re in the middle of this deeply, why don’t you tell us what your twitter ideas uh, my my twitter ideas real simple with scott koegler c o t t k o g l e r and be happy to have any more followers, although i have to say is i kind of alluded to i don’t really follow twitter all that much, you know? Well, okay, well, now, that’s not to say it’s irrelevant to everyone, but it it has become less relevant to me. Ok? And so why is that? Oh, so wait well before instead of asking that, what is it that twitter generally is not, uh, something that you spend a lot of time with? Or you meant earlier that the twitter organization pages are not really thrilling you? Well, let’s talk about twitter organization pages topic, you know my personal likes and dislikes you probably relevant, but, um it’s faras the twitter organization page here’s the first thing how many times do you go to to some organizations? Twitter paige? Yeah, probably rare, right? I mean, maybe one looking at their own stream on dure, often not doing it on twitter dot com, right? So the first time you did, maybe when you got, you know, when you saw them join your your twitter fan club and he went over there and wondered who this organization wass took a look at it, but but frankly, that’s, probably the last time, and so my recommendation is you spend whatever, whatever reasonable, half an hour or an hour, ok, get up your twitter organization page and i just forget about it because, you know, i don’t think there’s going to be much traffic and that’s very different from certainly from facebook where, uh, that paige is, will you get interaction that’s where people find out about you that’s where, on your content lives and uh and, you know, i think that, uh, we’re gonna find pretty much the same thing and google plus, now that they have a couple of pages organization pages, although i think google plus probably has more attraction to a to its organization pages, then put a will, you know the difference with twitter being that people are largely managing on following it off on different applications like hoot suite or tweetdeck, right? Right, exactly so so it’s just it’s a different breed of social media property where people just are not going back and not so apt to see the teo look for that page eso you don’t, you don’t find so many features that it makes it attractive to go to someone’s to an organisation twitter page. Exactly. I don’t even see how you really are going to invite people to your page. All right? Eso while at wild woman fund, is asking on twitter, how do you find a non-profits twitter page is through a hashtag or what? How? Was that done? I, uh you can always check the non-profits page twitter page, so if you click on the name of the non-profit it will take you to that page and what’s happened is that my fault user page that was there before has been replaced by the organization page, okay, but unless that’s advertised on the organization’s website, which actually is probably a much more populous place and much more active place in a better place to put them that you want people to find out about, uh dahna twitter page, there really is going to be still left let’s reason to even go look, yeah, ok, well, i think it’s valuable that you say, you know, it’s something to spend a little bit of time on, but don’t don’t go crazy like you would, you know, maybe designing ah facebook landing page is not like that exactly, i would say don’t ignore it, you know, put a little bit of time into it and and use it for whatever it’s worth. But i do have a couple of things that came up in a study that i read about dahna about they were talking particularly aboutthe twitter. Pages. But i think this is really good in general, ok, and scott, we just we just have a minute before a break, so just summarize a little bit and then we’ll come back. We’ll have more time, ok study that was done by a simple usability, and they essentially studied twenty or so brand pages on twitter, and they also have expertise in landing page designs. So we’ll go through some of these when we get back. And, frankly, the things you probably ought to already know what they were thinking about, particularly if you can’t spend minimal time designing your page. Okay, we’ll come back with those. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio with scott koegler talking about twitter organization pages. Stay with us, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community dahna. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent zoho in-kind welcome back to the show we have ah contribution from at wild woman fund talking about measuring twitter results and she’s recommending the girl short inner sight. Nine that’s the number nine dot tc and there’s a way that you then you shortened earl and add a plus sign at the end of your short linc, and it’ll it’ll give you stats. So that site again is nine dot tc, and that, of course, comes from our own live tweeting, which dan blakemore is doing for us today and you, khun, during the conversation using the hashtag non-profit radio, scotty kegs you, uh you had a little more for us, right? I’d like to go into some of the findings that the simple usability analysis company and again, these things are pretty straightforward things that you probably know already, but, uh, just go through him. So what they’re saying is that that what they looked at, where people’s reactions to these landing pages in particular, they were looking at twitter pages, but i would say it really is valid for google plus pages and also for facebook pages first one is, uh, they’ll make it to corporate, you know, if it has that kind of a corporate feel um, you know, people are going goingto look elsewhere, they’re going to think those too much about sales going be branding and, uh, so you want it to be kind of late, maybe lively, more personal, no, and they recommended you do use contests and promotions, you know, we use that in an email marketing a lot to put a contest or a promotion, and and it gets people more involved, it makes them want to come back if nothing else, it there’s a new contest to see if they won on the biggest losers that they that they call on sights and brand pages that look like they’re really just telling you what to do. In other words, they’re selling something to and we want to keep away from that so there’s a delicate balance between not looking to corporate but offering prizes in promotions but at the same time not being sales for non-profits that comes across those don’t don’t ask for contributions every single time. I’m sure most of you already know that mantra pretty well, no, but always worth repeating where khun listeners get this surveys is available. For free let’s. See, i found it on reed. Right. Web. Um, read rite web dot com it’s? Uh, yep. Lead right. Web dot com. And if you search for, uh, twitter, just do a search on site twitter brand pages you come up with, uh, that was probably a couple of hours, but i know that for sure. Okay? And what was the organization that did that one again? It’s called simple usability. Simple usability. Excellent. Okay, we have just a minute or so left. Scott, anything you want to leave us with about twitter organization pages? You know, just once again, go ahead and take advantage of it. It’s free it’s not going to hurt you. I’m not sure it’s going to be much good, but, you know, go ahead and don’t ignore it. Make sure that you have some kind of presence out there. Certainly, when you, when you have the opportunity to include a link to that page, just as you would madeline to twitter stream adeline to that page it’s one more set of exposures that may be good. Kayman so, you know beyond that it’s standard things you know make it make it useful. Make it easy for you to digest. Easy to understand, not too busy, all those kind of design issues always want to think about scott koegler is our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com scott, thank you very much. Good to have you again. Thanks, tony. My pleasure, it’s time now for tony’s take to which i, which i neglected tio do you earlier because i got so excited about twitter organization pages that i was more excited about them than scott was my block this week is my nextgencharity interviews part three, and i just want o explain what those with the three interviews in that part three were, and by the way, they were all recorded with the help of john federico, my guest earlier, because he was on that remote with me producing that rachel chung is the founder of catch a fire dot or ge, and she has ideas about making volunteering meaningful, trying to get highly skilled, busy people who want to help non-profits connected with those non-profits and she’s got some idea about some ideas about making that experience important. There are branding and other business lessons applicable charities and some of those come from the founder of the very consistent brand echo enterprises i interviewed the founder and ceo mark echo, neil strauss has non-profit tips from the art of seduction and attraction learned when he was on assignment for rolling stone to go undercover in a secret society of pickup artists. This is all true. I’m not making this up. I wish i wish i had this kind of imagination, it’s all true. One of his lessons is don’t open with your clothes. So, guys, if you want to pick up more women women, if you want to pick up more men charities, if you want to raise more money, listen to that interview again. That’s neil strauss interview and his book is called the game, and those three videos air on my blogged at m p g a d v dot com this week’s post, which is called my next-gen charity interviews part three, and that is tony’s take two for friday, january thirteenth, the second show of this year. I want to thank my guests, john federico, you’ll find him on twitter at gadget boy and scott koegler of course, my very deep thanks to dan blakemore on twitter, he’s at dan underscore blakemore, thanks stand for doing the live tweeting today is a real pleasure having you knowing you were out there. Thanks for your help today and thanks also to at wild woman fund for all the questions you had today next week, revel in real estate. Chase magnuson of george washington university and alan thomas from the american college have small and midsize non-profits in mind as they describe how to identify prospects for real estate gif ts how to cultivate, solicit and negotiate those gif ts what is the due diligence that is required to keep your charity safe from a bad real estate gift? Also board oversight basics our regular legal contributor, jean takagi, from the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco, is going to define oversight and explain how it should be executed. To keep again, protect your charity and also your board members and that’ll be the first part of ah tu parte conversation, which will continue in february. Keep up with what’s coming up on this damn show! Sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page if you like the show like the page for pete’s sake what’s keeping you away, you can listen to the show live or archive it’s been live toe listen archive goto itunes, where you can subscribe and listen any time on the device of your choice and our itunes pages that non-profit radio dot net on twitter, you can follow me just using my name and the show’s hashtag is non-profit radio used that often use it wildly. The show is sponsored by g grace and company. If you’re worried about the rising costs of rents for your organization or need to capitalize on real estate, you’re non-profit owns g grayson company provides you, and you’re bored with analysis, so real estate decisions are made with transparency and thoroughness. George grace has been advising non-profits on their real estate decisions for over twenty five years. You will find them at g grace dot com or eight eight eight seven four seven two two three, seven. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, our line producer today is janice taylor, the owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and our remote producer for the show is john federico of the new rules. Very glad that he could be on with me today. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio, always big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I hope you’ll be with me. Next friday, one to two p, m eastern here at talking alternative dot com. Durney i didn’t think that shooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. Take it. Cubine looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m julie, hi, i’m julia, what are you wearing? Welcome to jay and jay. Secrets of style and beauty. We know there’s, beauty and style, and all you do, whether it’s a job interview, first date or wedding, we also know that not everyone understands what works best for him or her. We’re here to help. Think of us as your personal beauty style and grooming guru’s, as industry experts will give you the best information for men and women on howto look phenomenal. Tune in tuesdays at eight pm tto. Learn how to look your best. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s, really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry. Sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Bonem

055: Explaining Earned Income & Leading the Leaders: Motivate Your Board to Fundraise – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Gene Takagi and Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group
Andy Robinson, consultant, and Kerry Kruckel, vice president for development and communications at WNET TV

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 055_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_08192011.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T22:46:41.781Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2011…08…055_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_08192011.mp3.358718259.json
Path to text: transcripts/2011/08/055_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_08192011.txt

Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me last week for got women donors from the fund-raising day conference in new york city last june, we talked about successful initiatives to expand your female donor base through targeted and appropriate cultivation, solicitation and stewardship. My guests were michelle walsh from the us fund for unicef and travis fraser from united way of new york city. Then it was linked in for prospect research. Our new regular contributor, maria simple, the prospect finder, was with me to share strategies for using linked in to find people and organizations who could be your board members, volunteers and donors. This week we are explaining earned income. Our legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan breakdown. What earned income is why it can be good. Why it can be bad. Why you need to understand it to protect your non-profit and keep it out of trouble. Then it will be leading the leader’s. Motivate your board to fundraise pre recorded at that fund-raising day conference in june consultant andy robinson and carry kruckel, vice president for development and communications at w any tv public tv in new york city reveal how to move your board to be the best fundraisers they khun b on tony’s, take two from my blog’s, say what’s on your mind. I learned a lesson about better communication from somebody who sat next to me on an airplane this past weekend, and that is tony’s. Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour we’re live, tweeting today, use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. We take a break, and when we return, i’ll be joined by jean takagi and emily chan to explain earned income. Stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Bilich hey, are you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Welcome back to the show and thank you, samantha cohen. Jean takagi is principal of ennio neo non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular non-profit law blawg, which you’ll find at non-profit law blogged dot com. Emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to the non-profit law blawg. They’re both joining me to talk about earned income. Jean emily, welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you back. Jean earned income. It can be good. It can be bad. What are we talking about? Well, when we’re talking about her dinkum, we’re talking about income that said, made by non-profits that’s not true. Donations through grants through charging fees, usually for services. Good. Jean, let me let me interrupt you for a moment. Could you talk a little louder? Jane is better. Yeah, that is better if you can keep up that. Thanks. Great. So earned income is about making income from services or goods or other assets that the non-profit may have to sell. And it’s not just asking for donations or grant on it’s. A way to diversify a non-profits revenue sources. Which is a good thing. Especially in times when other revenue sources from donations and grants maybe somewhat precarious because of the economy ah, and it helped to create a self sustaining program of the non-profit another really good thing in a way for non-profits toe leverage, goodwill and other ass. Yep. Okay, so this is income aside from your fund-raising a cz you said sale of goods or services there, there there there’s a lot of earned income out there, isn’t there? Jane? Absolutely. I believe emily sighted in in a recent block post that about seventy percent of the income reported by non-profits is actually derived from earned income sources and not fund-raising okay, so the majority of the of the income all right, and emily this khun b, that could be a downsides and non-profits too, right? Yes, there are to mean reasons why non-profits should be aware of this concept of unrelated business income because first thurs attacks that the irs imposes on income coming from unrelated business activities and second for public charities there’s a requirement that the organization be operated primarily for exempt purposes. So if there is too much unrelated business activity happening, that can actually jeopardize the status. Of the organization. Okay. Jargon jail have to getyou for unrelated business income. Unrelated to what? Let’s, break this down. Yes, on that really? The key concept here. So within earned income there could be activities that are considered related to the exam purposes for which the organization was formed. And then there can also be activities that are considered unrelated to be exact purpose of the organization. Three irs defines this three part of a trader business that’s regularly carried on that’s not substantially related to furthering the except purpose. So really, it gives the definition for unrelated business and that’s kind of how we see which activities are considered related or whether they’re considered unrelated. Okay, so i think the key phrase there is substantially related. Gene what? How does the organization decide whether it’s earned income is or is not substantially related to its a charitable mission? It’s definitely a fact specific inquiry, tony. The general idea is that related business advances the organization’s charitable mission without considering where the profits go. It’s the activities himself that contribute, importantly toe advancing the mission. So even if there was no money generated from that activity, the charity would think that running that business is a good idea because it helps again further, the mission furthers, uh, the interests of the charitable class of individuals trying trying to help no unrelated business is one where the activities really have nothing to do with advancing the mission, but they’re carried out to generate revenues that will be used later to advance the mission and it’s that’s unrelated business that could be subject to the unrelated business income tax and that can get a charity in trouble if it’s engaged in a substantial amount of of that type of unrelated business activity. Okay? And you you draw and a n’importe distinction. I think, between the activity that creates this earned income and the place to where that money goes once it comes into the organization, we’re interested in the former, right? Exactly. So for this analysis, we don’t get her where the money goes. We’re just looking at the activities himself, okay? Yeah, go ahead. Sometimes very difficult to tell. Tony, for example, does selling clothes or other retail items really further a charitable mission. And, you know, on one side, you might say, well, it looks like a department store. It looks like a boutique, but it can for their mission if, like, goodwill, the operation of the business provides education, job training and work experience for disadvantaged class of individuals so it can be very fact specific, and we’d look at all the facts and circumstances to determine whether it’s related or not. Okay, and we have just a minute before the break. So so the activity that we’re interested in is the activity that generates the revenue the income let’s call keep put consistent generates income, and you’re comparing that to the tax exempt purpose, which would be the charitable mission. And that’s, how you’re determining whether the income is related or unrelated? Why am i explaining this? Right? That’s? Exactly. Right. Okay, cool. All right, so we’ll take a break, and when we come back, emily and jean will stay with us. We’ll talk a little bit more about how to determine where, where this related or versus unrelated income fits. And what happens if it turns out to be unrelated. Which sounds ominous. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. E-giving attempting to getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get him. Good. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as the building as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten a. M for love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Schnoll welcome back, we’re with jean takagi and emily chan explaining earned income. So, emily, maybe we could talk about a couple of other, maybe just fact situations where i guess the irs has determined or, you know, or some court has determined that that something was definitely related or unrelated income. Can you give another example, besides the one that gene had with the goodwill? Sure, another common example is with museums that generally have this charitable and educational purpose, but they also generate income through activities like a gift shop or having a cafe. So now we’re looking at the specific activities, and the irs doesn’t a kind of a broad stroke with activities it’s going to look at each activity and even within that activity kind of separate parts. So starting first with the gift shop, i’m emily, before you go further, can you can you speak a little louder? Force? Thank you better. Yeah, it is better, thank you within a museum, gift shop, museum, maybe selling items that i’m advanced charitable and educational purposes, for example, their reputations of the art that’s displayed on other items like that, but they also may be selling things like seven years to the city for which is located, which really is not going to be considered substantially related to charitable and educational purpose at the museum. In that case, the irs look att each item, maybe even and determine whether that’s related or unrelated, and so it can get quite nuanced if we done looked to the cafe. Now we’re talking about some of the activities where the irs also make exceptions. So some cafes in a museum may be considered related if they fall under the exception of being there for the convenience of the members and the patrons who come into the museum. But then, if we’re looking at a cafe that open to the public that list, they have the street entrance. Now it’s starting to look like a commercial cafe for-profit cafe, in which case we are arrest may come in and say, this is unrelated income, and now the museum has to be concerned about the two issues we raised earlier of pre-tax or possibly okay, that’s really interesting. So so within this category of earned income, some of it can be related and some of it unrelated, and then the non-profit has to. Account for those separately, like within the same cafe or the same museum store? Yes, on so this is. And another misconception that comes up is not an activity itself, such as running a cafe can actually generate both unrelated and relieving income. I’m so again, and she noted it’s just very fact specific and the na me but they’re not the museum when it reports it’s income in its annual information returned to the irs got toe actually list out every item that generates related versus unrelated business income so it would have to say, well, we we sold some t shirts and mugs of the city city souvenirs. This generated this much income that would be subject attacks. We thought this many art prints and books on art which would be related and not subject to that attack. Yes. Ok, so they do have to account separately for all these different categories of related versus unrelated. Wow. Okay, so is that so it’s fragmented? I mean, they’re the income is fragmented and that’s exactly what the irs calls that they call it the fragmentation rule. Okay. And let’s talk a little more. Jean about the consequence of of unrelated, it earned income. It’s, you and emily both mentioned the unrelated business income tax is that what gets applied to unrelated income? Exactly, and the whole idea be behind the unrelated business income tax was to address the problem of unfair competition with for-profit businesses on dh back in the fifties, when when the law was first created, there were a bunch of large non-profits like universities buying for-profit businesses and not paying taxes when running them within the non-profits can imagine that a small business it could be very upset if this big non-profit competitors came in, didn’t have to pay tax and had this huge competitive advantage over the small business owners, plus the additional advantage of not paying property tax, et cetera, the other the other advantages, aside from not paying tax on the income right, exactly, exactly right. And so you could see how they would be this unfair competition if non-profits weren’t tacked on this unrelated business income, and there is a one thousand dollar general thresholds first, one thousand dollars sort of escape, but beyond that, then it’s considered substantial enoughto require that the non-profit file a special information return or tax return. Reporting it’s, unrelated business income tax and the income tax is a tax on the normal corporate tax rate that a corporation would have to file a for-profit business would have to file, which is generally somewhere between fifteen and thirty five percent rate. Okay, and there’s an additional return to report this beyond the nine, ninety it’s not just a schedule in the nine, ninety that you that you ah, that you file correct it’s a separate return called the form nine, ninety and just like the nine, ninety, it has to be publicly disclosed. Okay, tea for taxable. Maybe. I don’t know. Okay? Or tea for tony, i think it’s the nine. Ninety tony for i prefer that. Okay, so who should be making this call mean, does this this is definitely require an attorney? If you have this earned income that you know, outside you’re fund-raising income, you’re getting money for goods and or services? Does this have to be an attorney making the call as to whether it’s related or unrelated her candid account into it? Or or who? Offgrid i think it’s a mixture of individuals that really can help make this decision. I’m in one respect there really is a business decision that has to be made by the organization and its leaders, even if the organization is generating related income. I mean there’s questions about whether there’s capacity the resource to support it and weather engaging in these activities might even lead to something like mission creep, where the organization starts to move further and further away from the reason it was organized. I’m certainly having the help of experts can be incredibly useful for an organization as kind of our discussion is highlighting there’s so many nuances to this rule, and unfortunately, the irs doesn’t give kind of a straightforward, bright line threshold to say where you’ve crossed that line and now have based on certain consequences, such as getting your tax exempt status provoked. So i certainly think there are many people who could be useful durney i’m with jean takagi principle of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Emily chan is an attorney in that firm. So emily, you just mentioned possible revocation of your tax exempt status. What? We haven’t gone that far yet. What? What is that about? So public charities when they first formed one of the requirements under the internal revenue code is not this organisation be primarily operated for the exempt purpose? The issue with unrelated business income is now is there’s too much unrelated business activity? The irs is now saying you’re no longer being primarily operated for related purposes. Unfortunately, though the iris has not said definitively at what point can you say now? We were engaged in substantial on really business activity many people ask for, like percentages or income amounts, but unfortunately, the irs hasn’t spoken on that. Many practitioners fall on the twenty percent rule of thumb of, um, the amount of generated income coming in, but sometimes being office may reap are looking at the amount of resource is the organization is actually dedicating unrelated business activity as opposed to how much income is generating let’s stop for one moment. So on emily, i have to remind you speak a little bit louder, please. So twenty percent you’re saying some practitioners use a twenty percent. What are we taking? Twenty percent of if that’s your if that’s the test, you’re using twenty percent of gross income from unrelated businesses, okay? And and some practitioners think that is a threshold for for what, when you have to report it or or what it’s a good rule of thumb common amount that many practitioners fallen for when the organisation should be concerned now that they may be e-giving into too much unrelated business activity in which consequences could be oh, i see. Ok, so there isn’t a bright line. There isn’t a bright line as to how much is too much. Some practitioners use twenty percent. I don’t there’s some practitioners who think as long as it’s not above forty nine percent that you’re okay, yes, but certainly arrange again because the irs hasn’t said exactly at what point they believe that the line is drawn and partially because the analysis is still back specific, it may just be difficult for the irs to say definitively across the board this is the one amount where every organization must follow-up right, i can jump in turn, please, you know the irs is really looking at all. The resource is being used by the non-profit that’s directed at the unrelated business. So if it’s, using ninety percent of its resource, is not to engage in charitable activities, but to engage in the unrelated business and the unrelated business is only generating ten percent of the total gross income. Well, that’s still probably too much unrelated business activity devoting ninety percent. You know of your resources towards it on dh. That could lead to revocation of exempt status even below that twenty percent rule of thumb. Because we’re really not just looking at the income, really looking out at how the organization is using its research. So on the sort of congress sight, if it was using only five percent of its resources and it was generating eighty percent of the growth income of the non-profit that may be okay really generated so much income is just so little resources are going towards that, and then the other ninety five percent are all going towards furthering its charitable purposes directly. So it’s it’s really more than just the percentages, but anything over twenty percent, i think emily cause that is a good rule of particularly for account that he may not be looking at the activity level, but looking at the numbers and saying, hey, you better talk to an attorney when you get to that level of income from unrelated business. Okay, interesting. So i just want to recap a little where we’re talking about earned income, which is different than your fund-raising income, but so it’s a part of your gross revenue apart from fund-raising income discerned income and then earned income could be either related or unrelated. And we’re talking about now the consequences of having too much of the income unrelated. And jean, you had said the threshold for reporting is a thousand dollars. Is that right? That’s? Right. Ok, so if you have over a thousand dollars of unrelated income that’s, when you have to file the nine ninety tony form nine ninety tony form that that’s, right? And i should add, actually sort of define what growth income means without trying to get into jargon jail here. Okay. Income for this purpose is means the gross receipts, less the cost of good souls. So, for example, if we had t shirts and we sold two thousand dollars worth of t shirts and the t shirts costs us twelve hundred dollars, how then are gross? Income is only eight hundred dollars, so we wouldn’t have to file the nine. Nineteen. Okay. Okay. Ah, are there? Are there exceptions to the so what’s could be unrelated business income, gene? Yeah, they’re they’re exceptions to the whole area, unrelated business income tax and whether it would apply and the common exceptions that that we talk about are the three basic ones. When is the volunteer exception? So if the unrelated business is carried on by all volunteers, that will be an exception, and those activities will not generate income that’s subject to that unrelated business income tax. The other one emily mentioned is when activities unrelated business activities are carried on for the convenience of members or patients or students, and that might be like a hospital, gift store or bookstore in in a and the university or the example that emily brought up a cafe inside a museum that serving just the museum patrons. That’s called the convenience exception and is another exception where you don’t get charged with that unrelated business income tax. And the third exception that’s often cited is the donated good exceptions and that’s when you run an unrelated business like a thrift store. But all of the goods inside the thrift store were donated so similar to again the goodwill model. In some cases and and other thrift stores that are run by non-profits it’s a business and it’s unrelated but it’s all donated goods so they don’t have to pay the unrelated business income tax there’s one more modification we call separate from these three basic exceptions that everybody should know about and that’s the passive income modifications. So if you’re generating a lot of income from interest and dividends and red ilsen royalties but it’s passive, you’re not doing any activities, teo, get that that income it was just based on investments that will not be subject to the unrelated business income kapin but it gets so complicated that they’re exceptions on exceptions and exceptions, those exceptions? Yeah, no kidding, especially. I’m sure about the passive income when you start getting two rents and especially ranson and there’s prints on commercial property. Okay, let’s, not go that far. But i am interested in the volunteers that first exception volunteers doing all the work. So? So if you had any employees like in a thrift shop supervising volunteers, then then you wouldn’t qualify for that exception. Is that right, jean? It would be we would look at it from a substantiality points. So it’s substantially, all of the workers were volunteers. Then we’ll get that exception. You may still have a back person sort of supervising all the volunteers, and that could still work out. Ok, ok. And emily, the donated goods that does that exception have to be one hundred percent? Or is that also? Ah, substantiality test there for that exception, we’re looking again at it reality. So with many thrift shops, we see this happening. But certainly, if there’s a combination of exceptions to the unrelated business income roll and then there’s one or i think school that are considered unrelated. Then again, the fragmentation role, as we talked about earlier is going to be triggered on the organization is going to need thio mark each category. Make sure it accounts for that. Okay? Fragmentation, substantiality unrelated business income in the nine ninety tony form jean is there anything we want to wrap up with? We have just a minute left. Anything we haven’t said about earned income that you think small and midsize non-profits should know well, apart from the whole related and unrelated part, that big driving force behind designing to engage and earned income ventures is deciding whether you really got the capacity to do it, and it makes sense it’s compatible with your mission. You’ve got the right assets that are worth selling probably want to pick the low hanging fruit first do stuff that you’re already good at because you don’t want to surprise your staff with managing a totally unknown entity and unknown venture on distracting them from from doing the mission and want to get involved too. As he plan about that, you need to know the laws and risks involved. Whether you’re selling goods, maybe sales tax are involved, you may have new employment issues and intellectual property issues, social media issues, licenses, permits, insurance and all of those things. So getting some experts to help you making sure you have the capacity to do it ahead of time. Those those are my best tips for you jean takagi and emily chan gene is a principle of neo the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the non-profit non-profit law blogged at non-profit law blogged dot com emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to that blogged emily gene, thank you very much for being on, we look forward to hearing talking to you again next month. We look forward to it as well, tony. Thank you, real pleasure. Thank you. We take a break, and after the break, tony’s take two and then leading the leader’s motivate your board to fundraise, so stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rodder with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My block this week is, say, what’s on your mind and that’s the topic of tony’s take two on an airplane just this past weekend from chicago to new york. I was with a girl who was just very forward about saying things that that a lot of us would filter. So there was there was she’s, twenty four years old, elisa, and it was clearly, you know, some disorder that just made her say what was on her mind just as i entered the just entering the row to sit down, she asked me what’s your name, how old are you? Are you married? So, you know, that’s got me thinking, you know, she was very charming and sweet and at the same time, you know, unashamed, um and it just got me thinking, you know, they’re there we censor ourselves a lot, and we suppress things that maybe sometimes appropriately suppressed i mean, we can’t all be saying all the things we’re thinking with we’d all be without jobs without friends, but some things i think way sensor maybe should be said and and ah, not avoided just because they might be very sweet or, you know, unmanly. If you’re a guy or maybe because they might be, um, you know, a sign of weakness, so i just raised my consciousness about censoring myself and saying more things that i’m thinking and letting people be more aware of what my thoughts are in the right circumstances. And so i thought that might be a benefit to you because so much of our work is relationships in our inn. Non-profits so that’s say what’s on your mind, it’s on my block, which is that m p g a d v dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, august nineteenth. We’re now going to move to leading the leader’s motivate your board to fundraise. This was pre recorded at fund-raising day in new york city this past june, and here is that interview. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven were in new york city times square at the marriott marquis, and i’m joined now by andy robinson and carry kruckel andy is principal of andy robinson consulting. Carrie kruckel is vice president for development and communications. Wnt channel thirteen here in new york city. Welcome both of you. Thank you. It’s pleasure beings for having us. Our pleasure. Your seminar topic is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gift. I’ll tell you, we’ve done about half a dozen interviews today, and the board has probably come up in four or so of those of those six so far, but now critical the board’s role in fund-raising and how do you want to start the start? The topic? What? What? What is their responsibility? Well, where i would start this topic is i’d say we have to define fund-raising so it’s not just asking for money. It is the whole cycle of behavior. It’s identifying prospects, it’s cultivating it’s asking it’s, thanking it’s, recognizing its involving and so all that stuff. And if we define fund-raising is asking for money. There are a certain number of people, including a certain number of board members who will never get there. Okay. On the other hand, if we define fund-raising as this larger piece of work that we all have to do, then i would argue pretty strenuously they that there’s a place for everybody in that cycle, even the board members who hate to ask for money. There’s just the old fund-raising or something they can do? Absolutely there friendraising there. Friendraising yeah, we call it friendraising fund-raising atar side, which is the same thing. And it’s absolutely critical because actually, my feeling is that you don’t want every boardmember asking for money. Let’s, let’s try to go through a little life cycle of a boardmember how do we make sure we recruit board members who want to participate in this in his willingly? So, andy out recognizing that there may always be some that will will object strenuously and never maybe we’ll get to the difficult cases, maybe, but in the light in the opening lifecycle, how do we how do we recruit correctly? Andy? Well, the first thing is transparency mean, let people know when they’re joining your board that this is one of the expectations and i’m a believer and job descriptions, i think you specify what expected. Boardmember and i think the job description has to be reciprocal, meaning we’re gonna expect you to raise money on one side on the other side, we’re going to train you how to do it, we’re going to support you or give you some options and how you participate. Oh, so there actually is organization responsibility. It’s reciprocal? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, where a lot of lorts fail and be interested to hear your take on this carry. A lot of boards fail is they bring people on and they say, go raise money and they kick him in the butt and they supposed about the door do it there’s not training, but on the morning there’s not support. I mean, there’s, this sort of fantasy that they’re all they all come in as skilled and willing fundraisers. And that is rare. Carrie, how about you? For the recruiting side on the recruiting side were very strategic. And w n e t we have a committee that’s, just a people. So of my board of forty, only eight are formally asked by the chairman to be active solicitors for deb unity. And they partner with me. I trained them on. We have a whole business plan that they stick, teo, that we establish the beginning of the year. Now, just as important to that group a zach repairs to the organization is all trustees do. We asked him to give when they joined the board, we have a give and get yes expectation it’s very clear it’s not give or get you have to give not all of our trustees khun give it the same level, but they all have the ability to additionally get one of the criteria for recruiting a boardmember sir, is what is the network that they’re in what’s their orbit in sphere of influence and that’s we played too. We played to that strength rather than to a place that they may not be familiar. So that’s really key. So everybody comes in with a certain capacity said, but only a handful of people work with me on act, actually soliciting gifts, large gifts, the rest friendraising yeah, just once just one fifth of your board, but the andes to the point that andy made there is a role for everybody, so rule for only one fifth of your board is actively soliciting, right? But i would say another two to three fifths of our board are actively friendraising calling me all the time with great leads, contacts, ideas, and then the development committee is a very tight, working operation that, you know, we activate when we’re ready yeah, god, those eight people self selected or you hand picking the ones you want to turn into solicitor’s i’m in the process of handpicking because i just joined the organisation fifteen months ago, so i inherited a wonderful development committee, but some on that committee still are not comfortable soliciting. They’re more comfortable, say, leading a major gala that raises three million for the organization so that’s that’s significant in a different way, but know, as i handpick in this new new year, we have two new co chairs and they they go about fund-raising from a different very different points of view. One is a seven figure donor and annual basis, and one is a six figure donor, and so we tackle it different ways. One is very entrepreneurial and, you know, a tremendous seller, great talker, the other one is very focused wants to close five gifts at a million or more. So you create this this dynamic of what’s a business plan for each of them that kind of gets the whole committee where they want, and that also suggests the support that the organization has to provide in terms of a business plan, you’re talking about a business. Plan for each of them that’s i’m sure developed in collaboration with them, but your staffing that plan on dh you’re proposing the plan to them, right? Staffing that committee is probably fifty to sixty percent of my work. It’s a big part of my job and you say an interesting word, it’s, a business fund-raising is totally a business, and until trustees see how that business is an operation, they don’t really trust the process. I kind of think they might be asked out there on a whim, asking for money, but there are three major categories of running a very solid development shop, whether your staff of three or staff of seventy like we are, but you have to have those principles in place and regularly talk about them so that the trustees feel like there was a very strong foundation that’s pushing this for them and supporting them and support them now. And he talked earlier about proper training of a new boardmember what? What is training look like wnt for a new boardmember around fund-raising around fund-raising? Yeah, um, it’s pretty informal. I mean, we have formal orientation for all of our board members when they join and then every year all the board members get a mini kind of refresher, but when it comes to fund-raising, we sit down and we establish our goals and objectives together, i usually come in with a set of recommendations that i review with the chair and the co chair, but i really trained them as they get ready and go out. I equip them with basically the case for support, so anytime they’re out socially or if they’re setting that i’ve set them up for they know the elevator pitch, but until they’re actually going out on a call, i don’t train them until they’re going on a call. So that’s basically a really sell that briefing, and then you know, half an hour on the phone or sit down where we kind of go through that solicitation. Every solicitation is different, all right? But i don’t formally trained them. I don’t bring in outside consultants to train them. I’ve been doing this for twenty two years. Why generally, you know i might this year will be my first let’s see will be my second year kicking off the committee for the fall can i probably will have three new committee members, so i’ll probably take forty five minutes to kind of go through the rules of the game and how they’re set up tio have a great experience and a win win for the organisation, right? And then i’ll do one on one training and what kind of feedback do you like to see from a boardmember after they’ve been in the kind of meeting that carries talking about preparing them for afterwards, how do they feed back what they’ve learned in that meeting to the organization? Yeah, it’s a good question. First of all, the classic way we do this, i don’t know if this is true it w n e t the classic way we do this, we go out hairs, it’s a boardmember with a staff member and sometimes boardmember zehr skilled enough to go out alone and do asks and that’s fabulous, but i think that’s the exception rather than the rule. So usually what this looks like is thie carries of the world are sitting down with the boardmember after the meeting’s over, and sometimes you’re doing this in the car, you know, when you’re sitting in somebody’s driveway and what did? We learn how excited is this person? Are there other next steps that we need to take who’s goingto leave who’s going to take that next step? Who’s going to lead on that? How do we follow up with that person? It’s not a bad idea to produce some sort of scratchy where you actually have a standard set of questions you’re asking each other to debrief the meeting. So you actually have something you can then put in the database and use that to manage the relationship? What do you like to see andy in terms of the other relationship? Sorry, the other board dishpan ce abilities, aside from soliciting let’s say we have boardmember is that our? We’ve agreed, mutually, either i don’t solicit or you’re not comfortable listening, and we understand it. What are the other roles? Well, this could be an entire phone call baizman entire interview unto itself, but just off the top of my head, one is identifying prospects, even if they’re not willing to approach those people individually. Another one is creating opportunities to educate people, so if you’re at a radio station, you could bring him in and give mature if you’re a land trust you could take him out on a hike. If you’re working with children, you could bring them in to see the kids doing what they’re doing. It’s a cultivation piece on the back end? I’m a great believer in boardmember is picking up the phone and thanking donors, even people they don’t know and saying, hi, my name is andy robinson, i’m a volunteer boardmember with name of organization, i am not calling this evening to ask you for money, pause, you know, they collapsed on the other end of the phone, right? I’m just calling to say thank you, and these phone calls are revelatory because a lot of board members expect they’re going to get grief and people. Wow, i love your organization is so great it’s a privilege to give and it’s a really good way to ease people into fund-raising without the ask part that’s just half a dozen things they could do what i liked about that that last ideas having boardmember calls that ghetto learned the exuberance that’s out there, even if they’re calling fifty dollar donors, you could have boardmember calling fifty or hundred dollar don’t love that, yeah, i would love that. And then they learned that. There’s, this, this is base of support. It doesn’t only exist among the six and seven figure donors, and the variation on this and i’ve done this several times is tohave. Donors come to a board meeting and do a little donorsearch. Because a lot of board members think donors air from mars don’t know when they’re different species. And actually, they’re just like everybody else. Except they love your organization more than most people know. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Buy-in this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com told you. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. No. Durney carrie, how are how are you using boardmember sze who the ones that are not soliciting the other, the other four fifth what are some ways that they are directly involved in fund-raising they are every board member’s assigned to a committee wnt so we have seven committees, so they’re all engaged in some aspect of the mission of the non-profit my job, as i see it is the chief fundraiser is, too connect the fund-raising relevance to other parts of the opposition they may be working on, so if they’re working on programing, or if they’re working on investments or finance is what is the value of that work to the role we do and fund-raising so making the connections is really in part because a cz you pointed out they all have thinking about fund-raising they may not all be actively engaged, so the challenge is is how do you how are they experiencing the kind of the mission in a way that they’re feeling connected that keeps them kind of, in a sense, cultivated as prospects themselves and that’s a really big challenge? Because if you’re on the audit committee, that is not really a very inspiring everybody wanted wnt everybody want to be on the education committee because that’s where the programs that work with kids, mostly and that’s what they want to do because that’s exciting, but there are other fiduciary responsibilities, so it’s a challenge? So what we do is the ceo, the chairman, and i actually spent a lot of one on one time with our trustees, we take them out to lunch, we try to meet every trustee twice a year, just one on one intimately because board meetings, you really can’t connect on an intimate level. You really getting business done that’s a really valuable idea, i think connecting the leadership with the ceo with the with the boardmember include maintaining that relationship, you created friendship and trust there, but then we also i’m a big believer in events as a way to keep the trustees kind of socially connected. They don’t have to come to all the events, but they come to one or two a year in the months that you’re not doing boardmember ings w n e t we do a lot of screenings for new shows that we’re airing and that’s when we have trustees president, we give him a role, we ask himto welcome the guests, we ask him to go meet three or four people, so they always have a role in friendraising on the external side when they’re not doing the work of the board. I’m with carrie kruckel, vice president for development and communications, wnt thirteen and i see, um and anne robinson principle of anne robinson consulting their topic at fund-raising day two thousand eleven is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gifts, and this is tony martignetti non-profit coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven in new york city. Andy, what do you like to see in terms of the relations, the working relationship that carry started tow talk about between the ceo and the board around? Fund-raising well, i think the first thing is that there are ceos, executive directors who embraced fund-raising get it who are excited about it, and there are those who don’t and i have been development staff, it organizations where we had one and where we’ve had the other and this was was work is a whole lot easier if the ceo gets it and embraces it and understands it. So i’m going to start with the assumption you have one of those if you do the answer, the question, i think, is to have shared expectations that air clear about who’s going to do what and to find ways to engage people at the board level who will lead on this and the way i think about this and someone taught me this term is to have a successful fund-raising board, you need someone who is the spark plugs on the board when it comes to fund-raising because usually the way this works is staff are saying to the board, you need to raise money, you need raise money, we need help, and this is basically going to your supervisors and saying to them, you’re not doing your job well, which is tricky, she’s ill should that sparkplug be the chair of the development committee? Well, that works for me, but i’m less about the title, and i’m more about the personality, the attitude i mean, if you don’t like sparkplug, we can work with the word coach, we can work with the word cheerleader. I like the word enforcer, okay, but one spark plug, good to spark plugs. Better threespot plugs you have a really good fund-raising board, and if you can invest this person with a title like chair of the development committee that’s great, but i have seen it work really well when the chair of the development committee was more about the details and logistics, but they weren’t the one who did training and inspiring and enforcing. So i’m good either way, but somebody at a board level has to has to be that person, and the role of the ceo is to make sure you have that person to support them and doing that, make sure that they can do their job at a peer to peer level on the board. Okay, carry it sounded like you had something to say around around that relation that ceo board relationship, i would add that your board chair and your president, ceo and fundraiser have to compliment each other, so if you know what you have going into the mix and you don’t have the right balance of strengths, then you need to recruit very actively. Having a strong ceo who likes to solicit as well as the chairman can often be very problematic if they’re both looking for, you know, the chance to close on a gift and you have a donor who’s got two very aggressive people at the table that’s pretty tough, so i, like i’ve always looked to find a nice balance if the current ceo i work for is somebody who’s ah, wonderful articulator, but not necessarily was comfortable with making the ask or the clothes i’m looking for a chairman or a trustee to support him. Who has that complement the personality i generally find they’re just going backto. One point is, is that it’s really the rule the fundraiser to fill that gap? Knowing what your strength or as a professional fundraiser and playing those up, i probably can wear twenty different hats a w entity at any given time to support the trustee or their ceo or the chairman in an ask or a cultivation, because i’d have so much experience and see where the gap is in terms of how they’re going to relate to a potential donor. And i think that’s a number something non-profits can’t overlook is hiring the right fundraiser who has that kind of experience and working in a lot of different settings. On gonna frame this slightly differently. And i think this is complimentary. Really? Good development directors are good at getting other people to ask for money. Yeah, and, you know, doing it themselves? Absolutely. But the good ones are empowers. And trainers and supporters and that’s another way of what you just said. It’s a good point. Can i raise a second point, please? We’re talking, quote unquote. Major gifts and carry rolled out the six figure gift in the seven figure gift. And there are plenty people listening to this who will find those numbers to be frightening. Yeah, a thousand dollars is some organizations of thousand buckle is a major gift. The principles are the same. It’s. Not about the amount of money. It’s people who we consider major donor prospects, they get treated differently. They get more attention, we get more face time with, and we’re trying to find a way to engage their interests in a personal way. And that is really irrelevant about the amount of money we’re talking about. Okay. Excellent point. Thank you. And i agree. It’s. Very good. Carrie. What do you like to see around the the organization’s support of board? Members who are who are actively engaged in fund-raising what what kind of role is the organization playing toe to support those boards? Boardmember well, what i love to see that i don’t see much is an entire organization that understands the rule of the board and threw their department say their area of expertise, whether it’s, a on the mission delivery side or the education cider, the outreach side is that the leaders of those departments are justice. Capel is a fundraiser and communicating the progress of the mission of the non-profit to that board tends to fall into the lap of the fundraiser of the chief fund-raising almost every time you’re managing all aspects of the board, so but that’s, what i like to see, even an organization that doesn’t have it is a readiness and an understanding that we all are cultivating our board on the ceo or i’m the vice president, this department, i have a role in that, so i do spend time with my colleagues training, preparing them, helping them understand their role each year in terms of how they would interface with their committees that they’re managing, but i think that’s a really key part because it can’t just fall in the hands of the chief fundraiser at any size organization because it’s, very time consuming fund-raising really has to be out there also asking for gifts of other donors, not just working with the trustee’s. It was kind of building that pipeline, and so if you’re internally managing all components of the board, it’s very challenging, so i look for that but it’s really hard for non-profits to achieve that, you know, andy would have about thirty seconds left. What do you like to see you? So you have to be a little brief in terms of the organization supporting its member, its board members well, love, um, show appreciation, even if they don’t do absolutely everything you want them to do, reinforce anything that’s a positive behavior in this direction because these people are volunteers, they’re doing this on their own time with their own love, and we need to show appreciation even if they don’t do it perfectly if they do it pretty good. That’s a step forward, so i would honor that. Andy robinson is principal of andy robinson consulting carry kruckel is vice president for development and communications. W n e t thirteen there seminar topic is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gifts and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven in new york city in times square. Carrie andy, thank you very much for being guests. It was a real pleasure. Thank you, thank you for having us. That was my pre recorded interview from this past june the fund-raising day new york conference next week. Google plus for your non-profit our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott koegler is with me to size up the newest big splash in social networking and also break down the silos, integrating communications, pr and fund-raising for better results from the fund-raising day conference in june, my guest will be meghan galbraith, managing director at changing our world for this week. I want to thank jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit exempt organizations law firm and andy robinson and carry kruckel as well as the organizer’s of fund-raising day two thousand eleven for their hospitality from week to week, you can keep up with what’s coming up. Sign up for our insider. Email alerts on the facebook page. While you’re there like us and become a fan of the show, you know where facebook is. Just go to tony martignetti non-profit radio. When you’re in there, you can listen live or you can listen. Archive. The archive is at itunes. Subscribe and listen anytime on your computer, smartphone or tablet that’s at non-profit radio dot net for our itunes on twitter you can follow me, just use my name and the show’s hashtag is non-profit radio use that hashtag use it with impunity, use it unabashedly non-profit radio, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, our line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz. Our social media is by the expert regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. I hope you’ll be with me next friday one to two p m eastern here on talking alternative broadcasting always found at talking alternative dot com. I think that’s a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz to get you thinking. E-giving cubine hey, looking to meet mr or mrs, right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry. Shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com for the average, our is a great place to visit both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors magnify your brand exposure and enhancer current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission. One one media dot com. Talking.