445: From Opera Singer to Fundraiser – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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This week: 

From Opera Singer to Fundraiser 

Yolanda F. Johnson’s classical opera training informs her fundraising practice. She’s the founder and president of YFJ Consulting and the first African-American president of Women in Development, NY. She’s with us for the hour.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with Hemi Diocese Eah, if you blindsided me with the idea that you missed. Today’s show from upper Singer to fundraiser Yolanda F. Johnson’s classical opera training, informs her fund-raising practice. She’s the founder and president of Y F J Consulting and the first African American president of Women in Development, New York. She’s with us for the hour. Tony. Stick to Hello from Boise were sponsored by PURSUANT full service, fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dot m a slash Pursuant by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy text. NPR to 444999 I’m very glad to welcome Yolanda F. Johnson to the studio. She has nearly two decades of experience as a fund-raising expert and professional musician. She is founder and president of Y F J Consulting and the first African American president elect in the 40 year history of women in Development, New York. Her company is Why? F j consulting dot com Women in development is at wid And why dot or GE? And she’s at Yolanda F. Johnson. Welcome to latto Johnson. Thank you. My pleasure. Come a little closer to the mic. Okay. Classically trained opera singer. I’m surprised your your voice. I’m singing. You’ll hear everything. I’m speaking way. Make it to that. No, I wouldn’t put you. Okay. Um So Congratulations, President. Elective women in development with New York. You begin your term on July 1st run day. Yes, that’s awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. So timely. See, everything in your career has led you to this day on non-profit radio. Indeed. Everything that we’re gonna talk about and coming up culminates here. You’re at the pinnacle. It’s all downhill from here. It means it’s all downhill from here. I’m sorry. Uh, okay. So, uh, your Nebraska girl I am. How did you find your way from Nebraska? Thio Professional upper singing. That’s Ah, that’s not a typical trip for Ah, Nebraskan. Well, not necessarily so, but, Ah, we all have our own paths. I began with music probably four years old and that was piano first. And then I started to sing in church, Actually, Ah went to get a music degree of performance degree and undergrad in Oklahoma. Went to get a graduate degree of that, how to focus and fund-raising Arts Administration and fund-raising and then sold all my worldly goods and moved to New York. Because this is where you can do everything for singing for singing principally originally or fund-raising or something else. Interestingly, I never did. Fund-raising. Some people always have day jobs or you see performers and they have other jobs or surgeries or something like that. Hospitality. I’ve always loved both. I’ve always loved music and have always loved fund-raising. And I’ve always had them in my life simultaneously. Okay. What does it mean to be a classically trained opera singer? What? What is that what it means? I worked really hard with lots of teachers. Toe learn proper technique to sing opera and classical music. Uh, opera and recitals, Art song specializing spirituals as well with the underground railroad. Um, well, say a little more about that. What about spirituals in the underground realm? It I mean, you’re performing those now? Yeah. You have an album called Feel the Spirit. If you’ll feel the spirit. Yeah, and I have a concert lecture called a spirituals. Experience like that. Spirituals experience, spirituals experience, a concert lecture. So that’s talking. Singing? Yes. I teach people about the hidden messages behind some of the music, the spirituals, some of the things they meant with the underground railroad. Okay, Okay. I haven’t seen a lot of opera. Um, my, the pinnacle of my opera attendance was probably I saw Aida in Italy at the battle out at the Baths of Caracalla. Okay, which is an outdoor. It used to be a bathhouse in ancient days. Now it’s ah, it’s a performance space. And I was traveling in Italy. I just stumbled on these tickets from a booth on the street. You stumbled on this, too? Yeah, they were. Well, I had to pay for them, but I stumbled on the booth That was selling the tickets. Just said I eat a counter. Colin, Let’s go. I know what kind of call is. Um, so I mean, this was a lavish mean I eat It takes place in Egypt. I know you know that, but for the neophytes out there, uh, you know, thanks, marchenese. And there were there were all kinds of animals. There were camels. I think there were tigers on stage, like 100 and 50 people. I mean, this was a lavish. There were live animals and lots of people. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was a beautiful night. Um, anyway, so, um, have you performed in our you know, I have not performed. It’s the only one I know. Okay. I remember this was years ago. I don’t know, but I know it involves a queen and love and a mistress, and each of the plot of a lot of just like 90% of opera. Okay, Um, now you’re still currently you’re still performing? Yes. Yeah, you have some. You have a show coming up? I do. I have a show in August of Gian Carlo Menotti’s The Consul, and we actually put it in contemporary times. So it sparks dialogue about the immigration debate. Okay, um and we’ll say it now and then. We’ll remind listeners at the end, Where can they see the council? They can see the consul. I’ll be Magda, Magda, Cyril in that production at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum in Yonkers. It is not upstate. It’s just the suburb Yonkers. Yeah, well, right. For New Yorkers, that’s upstate. Yeah, but it’s not upstate eerie and buffalo Where? Upstate. Okay, but for geo centric New Yorkers who think this is the center of the universe, that’s you need a passport to get to Yonkers. OK, so if I don’t If I forget, you remind me that little pitching for that at the end to um So now you’re, um before we get to win. So opera and singing informs your consulting It does Y f J consulting very much. What’s the, uh, what’s the influence their of singing over fund-raising? Well, since you know, as I mentioned, I’ve always had a love for both. I found this intersection that makes me so excited. And it’s using performance practice in Philanthropy in and fund-raising. I realized I was at somewhat of an advantage, right, because, uh, I knew how to get into character. I knew how to breathe. I knew how to get through things that make may make other people nervous. Um, by using the things I had learned as a performer and all the world is a stage, I have a workshop that I just launched a month or so ago called All the World’s a Stage and it deals with that. It helps people. It coaches them through, um, being on that fund-raising stage and using performance, practice, toe succeed and excel. So we’re talking about overcoming the anxiety of face to face meetings, uh, training sessions, taking in-kind of public speaking, making me ask, making the pitch, knowing howto pivot if I’m talking to you and it’s not going quite right knowing what to say next, that’s improv improv. Yeah, uh, interesting. Because I was trained. I was. I was coached. I guess years ago when I was getting started, Public speaking, I don’t feel like I was very strong and my coach was a jazz singer and she brought in some elements of jazz, which is largely improv on. And then we thought this was incredible. She and I worked together for a couple of years, on and off, and then she felt like she had done everything she could to help me, and she recommended I take improv classes, and I loved improv so much instead, taking one class, I took four classes, like in a year. There were three month classes. I think I could come back to back improv at UCB, the Upright Citizens Brigade here in New York City, and that really she She did take me to another level. But then improv. Just the confidence of walking on stage with a scene partner with knowing only one word like knowing your first word of your first sentence and relying on your scene partner or team. And even if you’re not confident faking it until you make it getting into character, taking that breath, walking out there and just doing it, giving that performance done whatever it is that the stage is the board room, if it’s on the stage, you’re always on stage, right? Pretty much in life. You want to live an authentic life, but you also want to be prepared and be able to navigate. All right. So let’s, um, let’s take our first break and then we’re gonna talk a little more detail about, uh, some of the things you just ticked off some of the some of the, uh, singing lesson performance lessons that specifically that inform your informed fund-raising and speaking etcetera. OK, little detail pursuing you could check out their new podcast go beyond It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin. You know heart because she’s a friend of non-profit radio. They’ve been sponsors for a long time and, uh, tell has been a guest on the show. Ah, a couple of recent episodes of Go beyond our Optimize your fund-raising events. That’s where uh, you want to start in events and you used to do events and I still do a lot of even okay on also self care for leaders. You’ll find that at pursuant dot com slash resource is And, uh, let’s go back to upper singer to fundraiser. OK, OK, so it’s a little more detail about I mean s o I riffed on improv. But what are some of the specific, uh, skills that you can bring from performance toe help fundraisers? While one thing in particular, I think, whoever your audience is, if it’s 205 100 people in an auditorium, if it’s your board of directors, if it’s some major donor prospects, um, you know, always being prepared, nothing will save the day like being prepared proposed. So you have two from the version. You nothing’s gonna get you by if you don’t prepare. Um, but once you have that, there’s a certain peace of mind that comes. And then so you understand your audience and you want to make sure that there’s a level of comfort between you and them with, especially with American audiences. Um, we don’t breathe a lot as native speakers of English. You ever notice? Well, have you ever noticed that you’re talking and you’re just having this conversation with somebody? Maybe not you, because you’ve done improv, but a lot of us other people were just talking and then suddenly take a really deep breath. Yeah, sometimes on the show, I think everybody’s here is my breath of, like, some kind of Godzilla something? Yeah. You take a huge breath because you haven’t been breathing. Okay, you don’t want to walk around breathing too much, But you want to relax, right? Because your audience, actually on the subconscious level, consents when you’re not breathing, and it makes them very uncomfortable singing or speaking. If you’re going to long, they’re like, Oh my God, she hasn’t burghdoff. I’ve also done stand up comedy along with improv, and the audience can definitely sense fear. Maybe it comes from breath. I don’t know, but they can tell when you’re nervous, and that makes them nervous. And your material could be fabulous. But they’re scared for you. So they’re not laughing the way you want them to. Yes, it’s like nervous. They can smell your right. I mean, audiences consent. So you got okay. So be prepared. Gives you confidence. You’re not fearful. People don’t sense your fear. Right? And then you just know what you’re doing, right? I’m having a conversation with you. Have done the research. You do. You’re prospecting as a fundraiser. You read your lines, you learn your music as a performer. Be prepared, whatever it is that you’re doing. And then that gives you that peace of mind. So I’m having a conversation with you where I don’t necessarily just have bullet points in my mind that I want to cover. I have them. There’s back-up. But I can have a real authentic conversation with you. Right? And and from that comes hopefully dollars and cultivation of relationships and augmenting of audiences. Um, anything else we can touch on Besides, Okay. So preparation, preparation without breathing are there breathing out. Do you go through breathing exercises with clients. Yes. What’s a breathing exercise? We do one. Sure. I’m trainable. Do I need to stand up for it Way? Pretend I’m standing cause then we gotta just a mic and everything. Okay, But I’m standing. So whenever you take a breath, the proper breath is not a shallow one that just goes straight out front. Right? It’s a breath that’s barrel shaped. We have these muscles between our ribs. Wireframe. Everybody talks about the dye from, but think of your not necessarily untrue. But think about your intercostal muscles, right? That’s the one that connect the ribs to the spine. So your breath should be barrel shaped, not shallow. There you go. And into the shoulders, like up, up, up. It doesn’t have to be effective just because deep and then you control it out. Whether or not I’m sitting there and I’m about to perform or if I’m about to ask you for $10,000,000 Tony, you take that breath. Then I can look you in the eye and we can have an authentic conversation. Okay. Did that help? Did you notice the difference between the shallow and the also the pacing of your the way you were talking to? Yeah. Together. Yes. Okay. Like you change, you can change the mood in a conversation through pace. Exactly. So And pace is very closely related to breath. You can get people’s attention with silence, like you built in a little silence. Not awkward, but there’s some pauses. You could get people’s attention that way. Yeah, I did that. I stand up trying to get do that some time to stand up, take a pause like every second. Doesn’t have to be filled with syllables, Right, Because in the audience starts getting stressed out. Okay. Okay. What? Thank you. You’re welcome. Um, this is very good. All right, So this is the intersection of performance and on dhe fund-raising, and of course, you’re right. We are sort of constantly performing and fundraisers, all the mauler, whether you’re in a board meeting, whether in a 1 to 1 meeting, and I may not even necessarily be a solicitation. Just trying to get to know someone, make them comfortable so that a couple of meetings from now you’re gonna ask them to be a step up for the campaign or for the dinner or to be a major volunteer or be a boardmember. You know, whatever it is not only about dollars. Whatever ask it is we’re going to because you can’t just ask people unnecessarily immediately for money. You want to cultivate that relationship, and you want to be asked again, or you want to have your invitation accepted the next time so you can continue that process. And if it’s awkward, uncomfortable, you’re lowering the chances of going to get any mail. Yeah. You get an email after a call, right? You get a voice, you leave a voicemail, get an email. That’s about that usually bad sign. Um, okay. Um, let’s all right, let’s talk some about weed. 40th anniversary of the first black feet up. Well, they’re all females. First black president of weed. Congratulations on that mountain. Um, what’s ah, what’s coming up for? Weird? This is a big anniversary year for we do. It’s a huge anniversary year. I happen toe. Just love this organization. I don’t just say that, um it’s been ah, really big factor in my fund-raising career and in my life. And it has some amazing women that are really running this town as faras fund-raising is concerned in the tri state area. Really? And for our 40th anniversary, we have lots of wonderful things planned new programming. We have a really robust programming schedule. We’re gonna delve deeper into some issues that we haven’t necessarily touched upon before about the experience of being a woman in the field. Like what? What are some of those issues? Uh, well, we’re actually gonna have a conversation about the role of men. Okay. You know, uh, and we’re gonna look holistically at the Wood woman. And who women are in the development field and embrace the role of men. I mean, like, I could snap size that I can summarize it in a sentence. White men have all the power. Well, we’re gonna talk about that. Okay? Maybe you should come to that session. That’s very interesting that you say that I wasn’t gonna bring this up. Um, but I will. Eso Years ago, I tried to be a speaker at Wood, and they had some kind of policy. I know it was written. You are just Ah, er de facto. But they weren’t. They weren’t bring in mail speakers. Well, I’ll put it this way. Would is open. Wit is really smart. Okay, I will. I will say that not just because I’m a better organization, but we’re dealing with some really highly intelligent people who make on really good decisions for the organization where it’s at whatever period. But what is it with this one when they wouldn’t? Well, I don’t know that they blew it. They just made a decision that was best for the patient. But that being said, um, we our mission is to empower women in the field, whatever that means in whatever way, um, is appropriate at that time. And so, in this particular season, we’ve been around for four decades and, ah, we find the value in having that conversation about empowering women. And what does that mean? You know, how can this whole village of people in philanthropy and power women in the development field And so, um, at that particular session, it would make a lot of sense, possibly for you to join us. Us. My committee’s list way have witnesses. Okay, I would love to. We’re gonna send out live Mr In Love with your money or in Manhattan right now. But I also want to make clear that they don’t know they’re not to be men in the room to talk about dealing with male power. No, not not. Not at all. But we, as women, have talked about it for a long time. And now we need we want to look at it from a different perspective. And not only that, but again empowering women. So we have programs around professional development skills based, um, wellness. You know, we’re gonna be introducing that this year. We’re going through a rebranding, so we’re gonna launch that. Ah, remember meeting in September? Eso just lots of really wonderful, exciting things. We also talk about leadership, of course. You know, in the trajectory of a women and development members career, uh, how to assess that. And then we have this amazing network of women that are so supportive. There’s a sense of camaraderie with wood that’s just unique is with national. And this is the New York chapter we’re talking about. Or is with New York unique with geever imminent development. There are other chapters, but there’s not a national body that oversees us. Okay, but there’s a chapter and others would Greater Boston. Um, there’s one in New Jersey. There’s one upstate and actual upstate. Not unless you think there’s running around Westchester to, um and, you know, we’re actually doing some research to really discover. So if, um, your audience is brought right over the country all over the country, So if there are wood chapters that we may not know of, we want to talk to you, actually, because we like toe toe, have a conversation with you about getting together and working together. Um does would you mentioned the network does does with encourage mentor ship. You must we do we have an organic mentor ship that happens? I’ve had several really, really pivotal mentors that have come through with that have taught me so much. Um, and I think that we all find those relationships. It’s why going to our networking events going to our programs. You end up developing this circle of colleagues and really friends, Um, that it lasts for years. Yeah, it’s crucial. I’ve had lots of guests talk about it, and I’ve experienced it myself. Um, mentor ship. It’s very important, and that’s one of the beautiful things about many in leadership with with our board of directors phenomenal women. Uh, and I don’t say that I don’t give free compliments. Um, I mean it when I say that, and they are so open too, you know, spending time with young professionals with other people if they have questions really championing. And again, we all go back to empowerment of women in the fund-raising field. Is there a coronation on Monday? Monday, July 1st is our coronation event that we should be attending at the Cipriani or Oh, uh, you know, But we just had our woman of achieve that lunch. Johnny, did you okay a week or so ago. Um, you know there isn’t it? It’s a quiet transition, but, uh, but nonetheless enthusiastic. What is your first official act as president? My first official act. I already have a task list for Monday of some things that just need to get done. I’ve been working for a while, actually. Our outgoing president. I’ll give her a shout out here. Brooke Bryant, um, wonderful person and leader and, uh, Brian of the Kaufman music. She’s a doctor development there. And so I’ll just be looking forward to a lot of the things that I’ve started implementing. Really as early as January. She was very supportive. We started a system that hopefully I’ll be able to continue of allowing the person coming next to begin the planning process so that they can be ahead of the game before that January July 1st period. Sounds like you had that advantage. I did. And how long is your term? Two years. Two years? Okay. And 2020 is the 40th year of which is that right? Through this is our 40th anniversary year. But we’re gonna have ah ah, birthday anniversary bash in January to celebrate that we’re entering that no one will sit at the Pierre Hotel. Cipriani, would you like to sponsor about sponsoring? But I might come. Where is it? What were you doing it? Those details will be available later. We have a lot that we’re launching at the meeting in September. Okay, so January General January. Miguel in general. Not big gala, but big celebration celebration. Okay, um, as an events person, I’m very careful about that word. That g word piela means that it means a certain certain expectations. 1000 human-centered anabolic at the world over story, Right? Right. So, events, um, do you Do you still enjoy events I love even still. Do you still like putting them together? I mean, I know it’s not your practice, but you still like being the organizer of events On a personal level, I think I planned my first even when I was six years old. Okay, two years after you started music so late bloomerang events. All right, Um, and I personally, I love to love people through that they’re being bringing them together through, ah, common bond. A mission Just, you know, an affinity for something with delicious food and for what was right for you mentioned food? Yes. Food enjoin. I think our great lubricate er’s for a room. Yeah, you know, just it’s that sensory thing. Yeah, it’s a sensor thinking a sharing Its A shares were coming together with a table not necessarily sitting around it but the buffet table. Or if we are sitting down together, it’s sharing a space. That’s why exactly, And for a non-profit, it should have that same sentiment. I think you know, we’re all what makes it special. Is that your coming together to celebrate? It’s a culmination of them, you know, belief in the organization’s mission. Um, it’s not just the party, but it is a celebration. You know, Um, yeah, events. I have a hard time doing it. I just the details. Like, Does the bunting match the flowers? You know, things like that, Um, I don’t have a lot of patients for So I’m grateful that there are people who enjoy doing it. And I love campaigns. You know, Those are my focus areas with my practices, events and campaigns. And I happen to specialize in anniversary campaigns that culminate in an event. So, you know that marries those two things at the anniversary of the anniversary, as you’re doing with wood should be celebrated over a long over over a long period, right? Plan these things in advance? Yes, I mean, one night, like a one night thing. 40th 40th anniversary night. And then it should be multiple activities right through a year. Exactly. Ah, And so it is the 40th anniversary year. That’s why we’re starting in 2019. It’s the year and then it’ll culminate next year, and there are lots of things planned. So we have. We’ll have our woman of achievement luncheon again next May and ah, then we’ll have the celebration in January. But everything this year, You know, we have thematic concepts across a year. A lot of the time this past year was women in philanthropy, and this coming year is gonna be focused upon being around for four decades and what would has meant to the fund-raising field. And, Ah, and where it goes from here, what has meant a lot to women in the field. We have some real pioneers, um, many of whom are still around and still supportive of the organization, and we’re really appreciative of them. Got shot. A couple of them. Oh, see? And I’m like, I know I will, but, you know, I’m not really somebody out. Right? And then you’ll feel better me do that disclaimer. But I am that type of person that loves to give people individual attention. And then I’m like, Oh, wait. Next week on your show, you mention these names. You’re about the best in-kind. I put her on the spot. So she did not come prepared, but name some pioneers who were members of wood. Uh, Linda Hartley. Okay. I know her. She’s been on the show. Yeah. When she came out with her book When this amazing, Um, Shirley Jenks, who you also know surely very well done. Some work with our Shirley Jenks in J e n ks dahna in here in the city? Yes, argast. Holman has a past president. More group. She says she has a relationship with Nebraska to OK, she’s on the board of the university and rescue. Um, we have a current boardmember who just co chaired, uh, the woman of achievement luncheon this past year. Jane. Carlinhos, A beautiful person. Uh, and then Oh, my God. See, now, I don’t know Susan Yulin. You know Susan Ulan Koshi. I know my favorite people on the planet. I think I know her name. They recognized? Yes. Um, but just generally for non-profits, too. Planning in advance of your upcoming anniversary. You know, if it’s your 50th year or some organizations you know, 125th year, you want to start planning that a couple of years in advance, whether there’s gonna be what’s it gonna be is gonna be a fundraising campaign or it doesn’t have to be, But it’s a good hook. Well, for whatever it’s gonna be, you should start planning out of major anniversaries, I think two years in advance or so That’s a good time line. Yeah. Gives you timeto think ahead and be creative. Maximum advantage of eggs out of a big news hook. I’m a piecemeal er by nature. You won’t really see me dive into something and complete it all at once. I like to be ableto work on it and take a step back. Go back to it. Have the daily experience of your life in form some of the decisions that you make. You know, you keep living life and things happening. You’re like, you know, I’ll go back to this and maybe I’ll try it this way. So, um, so what is definitely We’ve been planning ahead and we’re excited. It’s a life practice. It is piecemeal. You say piecemeal. I would say life, it’s a life practice. Come back to things. Um okay, Um let’s, uh let’s take our break. And when we come back, I want to talk a little about your experience as a black woman and fund-raising and ah, survey that we have, um so hang on there. Okay, great. All right. Thank you. Don’t walk out. Um Where are we now? It’s Tony’s steak. You know we need to take a break. Were Wagner CPS because they’ve got a webinar coming up, it’s on July 11th. Engaged and effective, not for-profit governance. All right, so this firm is auditors, so they know all about governance. How is yours? Doesn’t measure up. Are you getting the most out of the expertise and the creativity of your board members? You sign up at wagner cps dot com. Click Resource is That’s on July 11th. Now time for Tony’s Take Two Hello from Boise, Idaho. I was just there for a long weekend, visiting dear friends. Um, and I recommend Boise on. By the way, it’s Boise, Boise. I mean, you don’t know this boy, See, but it’s not Boise for you East Coasters. It’s Boise, Boise, Idaho. I learned just like it’s Oregon. Not Oregon. No ive the Oregon at the end of Oregon. Um, that little bit of a digression. So, Boise. What about it? It’s got mountains, beautiful mountain range, snowcapped mountains in the winter and the spring, even when the temperature is is more modest. Down below that beautiful, snow capped mountains, they take their beers very seriously. 16 brew houses in Boise. Now, I did not get to sample all the monument to a couple. I can shout out Powder powerhouse, a jus powerhouse. Very nice place. Um, 10 barrel, which happens to be downtown. Those air to that we went to there was 1/3 1 I can’t remember. They also take their food very seriously. If you go downtown around where Around where? 10 barrel is 8th 8th Street and Main Street. Lots of restaurants and other brewpubs and and, um, breweries not serving food. Right along eighth and main. Lots of serious restaurants there. And now I don’t mean serious, upscale. Just very good food. Reminds me of Portland a lot. In that respect, they take this food very seriously. Um, what else about Boise? Oh, just drive 10 minutes. 15 minutes. You’re out. You’re way out of the city. We visited a winery. So, um, I’m recommending Boise has ah travel destination, and there’s more in my video. Um, and you will find that at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony. Take two. Now, let’s Ah, let’s continue a little more with Yolanda F. Johnson and, uh, opera singer the fundraiser. Whoa! Look at the bursting. Oh, man. When we get the live lister love, we’re bursting. But we’re not doing that now, okay? Bursting. That means there’s a lot of bursting with life listeners. And we’re on Facebook live too. Oh, I guess I should do is I’ll shout out All right. Aunt Mary and Mary Bob Largent. Hello, Rose mary-jo video. Love to see you. Thank you for being with us on Facebook. Give us give us a little give us a little love on Facebook and I’ll be happy to shut you out. All right, So, um, s O The power in non-profits is maintained by white men. They’re they’re overwhelmingly the board chairs, the board leadership, the CEOs, the C suite, uh, senior fundraisers. What’s been your your experience as a black woman doing fund-raising in that culture? Well, coming from Nebraska, how’s it going? And, uh, it’s interesting that it is a national issue, is it not? You know, no matter where you are, even in a place as diverse as New York City, that’s still our reality. And, uh, it’s obvious that, uh, philanthropy would do well from continuing diversity in my experience as an African American woman in the field. You know, You know, this year we did a diversity. Brooke and I did a diversity and inclusion task force for wood because we were looking at the room and amazing women. Um, but the room could be a bit more diverse, you know? And so we wanted to You think about that. And one of the first questions was, you know, is the field already diverse? Does it exist that way? It’s just that people may not, um, come out and aren’t. It is necessarily feeling is welcome for whatever reason, or, um, are they just not there? And so, because of some of these studies that have come out recently, I was I spoke a case conference on diverse diversity and fund-raising in Indianapolis in April. And that was one of the things we talked about Is diversifying that pipeline for fundraisers because you don’t necessarily see yourself. Did you have you come to any conclusions whether it’s there, there are there is greater representation in fund-raising, But people are not coming out or there just isn’t the representation that we’d like to see. Both. Okay. Yeah. I think there was more the ladder that just not just not reply. It’s about your It’s both because we have to make those efforts toward diversifying the pipeline. We have to look to the future. We have to look to see what’s happening now. We have to stay self aware and just aware in the profession. Um, and that’s the thing. You know, inclusion is the exact opposite of tokenism. So sure inclusion means that you’re naturally, organically there. You’re appreciated for what you’re bringing to the table, and when you don’t see diversity, sometimes that doesn’t come to mind. So one of the things wit is gonna dio is really focus on that this coming year. And, ah, just make sure it’s on our mind, You know, if you have an opportunity to invite a speaker or toe work with different people in partners, Um, is there someone who’s just disqualified who may be a little more diverse? Um, thinking fairly, you know, they’re just disqualified again. Like I say, it’s not tokenism, but just making sure that’s on your mind, because when something’s not on your mind, it’s, um it doesn’t exist. Okay, right. So, consciousness awareness consciousness, Yes, Critical first step, but necessary, but not sufficient. You know, they need to be action. They need to be conscious. Action? Yes, not just policies, not just tokenism. Yes, I’m outcome oriented person. So I believe in the process. But I’m not interested in staying stuck there. So we have some definite recommendations that our task force is made to the board of directors that we’re gonna be implementing in the in the coming year. And so just tow elaborate a bit on my answer to your question. So, yes, there are fundraisers of color in the field, but as the cause effective study shows, you know, Yeah, um, mentor ship professional development, because you know that we’re still underrepresented. There’s more work to be done to get those, you know, professionals of color, all of the support that they need to survive into thrive and at the same time, work to be done to develop that pipeline so that we continue that into the future with great consciousness and in being intentional about it. I know that I personally have been paying more attention to this just within the past two years or so, so but I don’t know if that’s s Oh, I see. So I see more conversations about this, but I don’t know if that’s because I’m participating. Maura. Maura, I’m thinking about it more. All right. Walk. I won’t, um, Or if the conversations really are happening more frequently and there is greater awareness than there was three years ago. Do you? What’s your sense of you? Do you think? Do you think there’s, uh, not not saying sufficient awareness or or action? But you feel like there’s more activity around diversity equity and inclusion now than there was just like three years ago? I do, yes, and strategically. So you know, I’m a strategic thinker. Meaning what? Uh, there’s been a lot that’s been going on for the past few years, but now people are really buckling down their understanding, those exact facts and figures and metrics that they want to capture. And then we’re talking to each other more about how to move that forward. There was a great event, um, a week or so ago on June 18th and was held at the end of the CP and we there’s a committee, a host committee. Ah, I was on it, um, one of the lead researchers for the study was on it, Um, the A f p person who’s involved with their idea programming, Um, people from case. It was a pretty good host committee of us. And I’m sorry if I’m forgetting anyone and then on a barber barber as well who’s ah, noted phenomenal fundraiser. We all got together to get the fundraisers of color together in New York City. And, you know, it was interesting because honest it to me. We’ve been doing this in D. C forever. I can’t believe, you know, like, it’s interesting that New York hadn’t done it yet. And so we did. We got it done. We got together, um, divided. We fall united, we stand, and so we’re aware of each other more aware of each other. Now, instead of being siloed and in a vacuum of ourselves, for whatever reason, we can come together and work together and push everything forward, move the needle. Yeah, well, that moves that leads to empowerment, thinks that we’re working together. Okay, Um so now your your personal experience as ah, as a fundraiser, you feel like that’s ah anomalous for an African American woman? Um, somewhat I you know, I’ll give the greatest shot out of all to a woman named Lori Cronan from would be remiss if I didn’t mention her name. Ah jokingly call her my would mom. Sometimes she really brought me in to the organization and and introduced me to so many different things and people that have to do with fund-raising. But it takes a village, no matter what the color that transcends color lines. It takes a village of people sometimes to pull you up to support you, to help you get that professional development and to help you move forward and to encourage you. Um, it’s something that’s on my mind for young women of color, of course, in the field, something that personally is important to me because I think it does make a difference when you see someone who looks like you, just like, um, not on Lee within the field. But even within your organizations, you know, um, that kind of had gone over my head at first, and then I had a boardmember. Mentioned that to me where I used to work and they said, You know, a lot of these kids are seeing you and it makes a difference because they think that the executive offices are like the big bosses in the office is up there in the executive director and all that and the fund raisers and philanthropy. That’s a whole other issue within it, you know? Do they really understand that this is a viable profession for them? You know, first, the profession had to get the respected deserved. Yeah, And then because, you know, we work hard and we’re educated in this, and a lot of us have degrees that air focused upon this. We’ve studied the science of fund-raising, and it should be fully respected. It used to be thinking that this is the first event planners, right? They’re just out. There have been so many slapping backs holding her hand out, and it just comes It’s like, No, no, no, no. We work very hard. Um, and so you have to have that first. And now we have to diversify. And we have to really consider all of the different issues within the field. Um, the woman who you, uh, said you’d be remiss Lauria, who gave you a guidance coach mentor? Is that a white woman? It is okay. Happens to be yes, but I had, um, some really wonderful African American women obviously, uh, who have been integral to my life. I had, you know, a good balance, but, um, it’s sharing the power sharing the power of Orden. It’s important to have role models and mentors of whatever ethnicity, nationality? Yeah, we all have to work together because if you’re there and if things are imbalanced in the first place than if white males are really, you know, at the pinnacle of power, then you know. And what role do white females have? Our females of whatever color. But you have to reach back, and you have to help people. Yeah, That’s why I say I share the power. Yeah. Um okay. Um, so you’ve had a, uh you’ve been fortunate, and you’re and you’re very blasting. Obviously grateful. And I want to do everything I can for all of the president of Wood. Now you can lift up others. Yeah, um, and they’ll see ah, black woman in power at will. Yeah, that’s me. And I think that makes yeah, it makes a difference. Let’s talk a little about the this cause effective study Okay. This is, uh, money, power and race. The lived experience of fundraisers of color. Um, are you familiar with what they did? I mean, there’s speak to what they did, what the process was. Just interviews, et cetera. They did, Ah, lot of indepth work. Judy and Cynthia, if you’re listening, this is the shout out to you that the executive director of cause Effective and Cynthia bradrick, who did a lot of work on that, and she actually engaged me. I was interviewed for this. They worked very hard at getting a diverse array of professionals of color to answer and to participate in the survey. I was, ah, reader at the end as well. Um, another wonderful person soon. Ill omen. Um, I know he was a swell with They have p and, ah, I’m very happy for them. I’m very proud of them. Of the work that they’ve done. This is a very important study, and I think it’s gonna be helpful. Helpful tool if we don’t set it away, You know, you have to keep these things out and keep remembering. Like the strategic plan that goes on cause effective is a terrific organization. We’ve had guests on. Um, Greg Cohen comes to mind. He’s been on a couple times. And then someone who, Uh oh, now I feel bad. Someone who retired out of cause effective. She’s Greg Coin’s neighbor in Brooklyn because I was out there. I was at their summer party line last year, and they shared. There was a back shared backyard thing. Um, it’s not. It wasn’t Judy, though. I feel terrible now. She’s retired, so she probably doesn’t listen. Well, nobody listens to this show. E thought you 30,000 with Yeah, well, you just told me we’re interesting. We’ll fake it to make it figured to make it that way. Um, okay, let’s take our let’s take our very last break, okay? And then we’ll talk more about the more about the survey. Okay, study text to give. They’re five part email. Many course dispels myths around mobile giving. These do not have to be small. Gif ts. They can easily be gift in the hundreds. The donations do not have to go through the donor’s phone company. That’s a that’s a common practice that need not be because the phone companies typically put a cap on the gifts. You don’t have to go through phone companies. You want to get the email? Many course over five days. You text NPR November Papa Romeo. I didn’t say that. Quite right. My Air Force days November Papa Romeo, not Papa Thio Text NPR to 444994499 All right, now we got to do the live listener love Steve Cook give you a shout out on Facebook Steve Cook joined us on Facebook And, um, let’s start abroad. There’s just so many I’m not even gonna use. The language is like annual haserot Comes comes a ham, Nida, etcetera. We’re just gonna go through where everybody is. Seoul, South Korea, Denmark, Jakarta, Indonesia. Tashkent, Uzbekistan Who you’ve been with us before? His Pakistan is not the first time. Not every week. Try to make it a little more regular. There was Becker. Stan, would you please try to be? You should be with us every single week, but no live. Listen. Love to Tashkent. Hoochie Minh City in Vietnam. Um, Porto Alegre, Brazil Whoa! Tehran, Iran. Tehran has been with us before. Yes, not the first time. Glad to have you back Live love to Tehran. on to Toronto, Canada. And now we made it to North America. So let it’s bring in, uh, New York, New York. Three people. We got multiple listeners. Looks like three while ago. Right here in the city of New York. Gillette, New Jersey. We’ve got Brooklyn, New York, in We’ve got Clifton New Jersey Wallkill New York. Woodhaven, New York. Bellmore, New York. All right, Staten Island. Staten Island is in Yes. Welcome Staten Island. Live love to Staten Island. So who’s not with us? Bronx and Queens Chicken. Maybe they’re maybe they’re masked. You know what? They could be masked. I’m sure that I’m sure Bronx and Queens are with us. So live listener, love, live love to you. Thank you so much for being with us. And for those of us on fate those of us those of you with us on Facebook live love to you as well. And the podcast pleasantries to the to the over 13,000 that I keep saying it’s nowhere near that, but, uh, no, we have 13th out over that thing. 1000 podcast listeners. Um, listening in the time shift. Wherever you squeeze us in on the weekends, you binge Listen, you spend Sunday listening to hours of podcasts on end Thank you. Pleasantries to you. I’m glad that we’re in your podcast library. Pleasantries to the podcast listeners. That’s one of my It’s almost like a therapy. Oh, it’s almost like the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, the pleasant pleasantries to the podcast Listeners podcast pleasantries and lively sabelo I’m a big fan of ah, big fan of Ah, liberation Liberation, What did you what was the little phrase you just said? But but But the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue Yes. Is that a little exercise right before you go on stage, isn’t just tow annunciated like a said native speakers of English. Sometimes when you’re, uh, enunciating on stage, it could be difficult to decipher what they’re saying. And so, ah, lot of dip bungs going on and what we think is overdoing it. But that’s what it takes for the audience to actually hear what we’re saying. It does the lips, the teeth, the tip of dung. Okay, what do you do right before you go on performance? Right the minute before your first appearance on stage. What do you doing As a singer? As a singer, I meant as a as a Well, I guess there’s any kind of performer. What are you doing in that last minute? Um, I’m saying a little prayer, okay? And I’m getting excited because I’m ready to share this with the audience. Your blood pressure’s a little high, right? Sometimes, but not really. Yeah, I’m pretty Chill. I’m I’m ready to go do it If I’m prepared that I said I will never be that person backstage like, Oh, my gosh. I know I didn’t read any of this stuff, but I sure hope it goes okay, that’s bad. Terrible. Um, and so I just It is what it is at that moment, right? And so I just get excited and go out and share it. All right. Well, thank you for sure. Well, prayer to yes. Definitely prayer before. Um, Okay, So the cost effective study was was it was interviews. They were surveys. Lots of personal interviews. Yes. Yeah. People of color. Remember to stay close to Yeah, there we go. Okay. We won’t hear everything that you say. Um, so they learned some things. Um, why d I is important. This is interesting that you’ve mentioned earlier. We’d said we’d had a diversity and inclusion task force Didn’t include, uh um quit equity. Uh, it’s the i d. I Doesn’t matter. I mean, we’re shortchanging people cause you didn’t include the e’s. No, not at all. I guess it could have been a debt if, but it’s a d t i f. Um, the equity is inferred in that. It’s just that it’s not called a d. I think, and people have different thoughts and opinions on what each word means. You know, some people don’t like diversity as much anymore, and they rather focus on equity. Yeah, I’ve heard. Yeah. Alright. It’s like LGBT Q plus. Now we put the plus until right? It’s all inclusive. Yeah, If you’re not LGBT or cute, you’ll have to just be in the plus. Okay. What did you say before? D t d t f d I t f diversity and inclusion Task force. Okay, we have jargon jail on non-profit radio. I hate to sound imprisoned even for a short in for a short term. Um, so we know, I think we know why it matters. Um, you know, interesting Make making explicit that money is power. And for fundraisers of color, you know, they’re they’re seeking money from the people who have it, which are largely white and male. So that’s a that creates a dynamic for fundraisers of color that, um, white fundraisers don’t have toe. Sort of we’ll deal with overcome, depending on the opinions of the people trying to get the money from well, and I want to add to that whole diversity discussion Donors of color, you know, they’re out there donorsearch and tapping into them, you know, just like we have toe ah, work on the pipeline. We have to support people who are already in the field, and we have to think outside of the box. And remember everyone who’s been blessed with, um, the ability to be a philanthropist. And what does that even mean? Now, you know, when you I think that it’s so pie in the sky, but it’s not. It’s right in front of you to be a philanthropist in many ways. You know, the Indiana University Women’s Philanthropy Institute. We had a partnership event with them in May, where they revealed Some of the women give study and, you know, adult into, you know, how do you define being a philanthropist? So we have philanthropists of color that need to be tapped into as well that are, um, Kim be called ignored. Sometimes I think you find that you feel like we’re not reach The community is not reaching out donors of color wealth, wealthy folks of color. I think it’s a complex issue, but I think I could say yes to that in some ways. Um, but remember that a donor of color, um, we’ll also have probably had advert in life experiences as well. So, you know, it’s We’ll all have. Yes. Okay. I feel like we’re not We’re not We’re not getting it. So I’m surprised that that you find that, uh, because if we’re if we’re trying to get support for our organization, I mean it auto come from anybody who has the means. Exactly the means to support us. Yes. Money is color blind. Amen to that. Um, okay, that’s an interesting insight. I never I have to think more about that. Pay more attention that I’ve never I’ve never thought about that. All right, um you’re full of good ideas. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Ah. Okay. Um, So I think we understand why the d ay matters like we’ve flush that out. So? So some of what they they say something interesting. Fund-raising reflects and magnifies the racial hierarchies of our culture. That’s sort of what was scratching out, right? You know, um, it’s a you know, fund-raising is there’s just inherent, irrespective of people’s color. Uh, there’s It’s a fundamental power subservient relationship. You have money, and I’m asking for it, right? I mean, I do fund-raising, I do plan e-giving fund-raising. People of wealth have money and number. I’m pursuing it. So there’s your definitely pursuing people that have a certain amount of Yeah. Yeah. Well, now, modest people of modest means could do plan. Gift to That’s true. Let’s not forget, Okay? Actually, west, like anybody could put will request for 1000 or $5000 in there, will probably And that goes to the same point of What does it mean to be a philanthropist? You know, if you’re giving $500 whatever you have to give, you’re still helping a cause. It matters a lot of people don’t think of themselves as philanthropists, but they’ve indeed they are. It doesn’t really matter. I mean, they’re supporting organizations. But people who write $20 checks, $50 checks, they don’t they don’t think of themselves as philanthropists. And I think that’s what I used trying to get people to think differently, especially with women. Donors toe value yourself and to understand that contribution that you’re making to society through whatever the size well, they understand they’re contributing. What what’s the importance of? You could educate me again. So I’m trainable. Just any ideas? What? What? What’s the importance then of them recognizing themselves as philanthropists? Because it empowers you in a different way. When I see myself a certain way, um, it allows me toe think differently. And when I’m making those decisions, ah, it might allow me toe to get involved with an organization on a deeper level. Ah, and bring in my network. You know, we could talk about give and get so it can. It can open lots of different doors and just change the way that people think about themselves and about the ways that they give, so we should be encouraging our donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Yeah, including the 20 and $50 donors. Yes, you’re a philanthropist. And we appreciate your gift and that. Well, there’s always that. Yeah, I’m just trying to distinguish the philantech. Think of yourself as a philanthropy. Yes. And then, you know, it’s that strategic thinking. So And, you know, it’s that same story of the whoever it is the janitor or somebody who passes away and leaves $5,000,000. A very modest life. There’s a 40 year old car they were driving or whatever, and then they have millions of dollars to leave him. You never know you can you never. You can’t judge a book by its cover. And so you never know what’s going on. You treat everybody with dignity and respect and appreciate their gift. And you never know what network they might bring in our, um, people they can introduce you to. Yeah, that’s all true. Yeah, it’s just a philanthropist thing. Getting getting your modest donors small dollar donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Interesting. Ok, um all right, so this is the, uh, kruckel about the magnifying, the racial hierarchies, and we just have a couple minutes left. All right, so let’s leave the survey. That’s enough of that survey. It was a great service. So again, it’s money, power and race. The lived it experience of fundraisers of color. It’s published by cause effective, which is, I believe it’s called effective dot or GE. And now that you have the name of the survey study, you should have no trouble. Obviously finding it on dhe. Check it out. Okay, Um, a couple minutes left as, ah, professional woman in fund-raising your own practice. What would you like to, uh, would you like to leave our listeners with? Well, um, I just like to reiterate how honored I am to be leading within this 40th anniversary year. I’m excited about continuing the work of my practice. We already talked a bit about events, and I also specialize in campaigns and in going in and assessing what’s happening with small and medium sized development departments and helping them to get to the next level. So I look forward to continuing all of that work. Um, and I also look forward to continuing singing have a vocal workshop coming up in a couple of weeks And then, of course, the consul again. Yes, I mentioned right argast. 10. Where is that? In Yonkers, at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum. And it’s gonna be It’s deep, you know, using music, using art as that medium to spark the dialogue, the conversation, the thought about these current issues you cannot make the You can’t make this up, though The libretto has not been changed its 70 years old, and it could have been on the news last week. Really, it’s fascinating. Where when does it wins the opening? It’s a one night only thing. It’s August 10th 8 p.m. August 10 2019. Yes, if you’re in the New York City area, check yolanda johnson dot com. All right, that’s who she is. She’s Yolanda Johnson. Her company is Y F J Eyes Cos. At Y f. J hyphen consulting dot com. Women in development you’ll find at W I d n Y dot or GE. And she is at Yolanda F. Johnson and thank you so much. Thank you. This is a pleasure. My privilege. Next week, there’s no show. I hope you enjoy your holiday time off whichever day or days it is somewhat, officers seem to be having trouble like, do we give them the Thursday off and then make them come in Friday and then Saturday, Sunday off. Do we give them Thursday and then make them coming Saturday? Whatever Hope you have some time off, you certainly have the Thursday off anyway. Enjoy will catch up with you on Uh oh, that was a good breath. We’ll catch up with you again on July 12th. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dot m a slash pursuant Capital P by Wagner c. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to 444999 Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Steiner, Brooklyn, New York, With me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show beyond potential Live life You your way on talk radio dot N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and the small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. If Theo best designs for your life, start at home. I’m David there. Gartner, interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern time as we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us. Right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking altum dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. Do you love or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history. It’s vibe. It’s field and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio. See, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

389: SMS Fundraising II & Digitally Track Your IRL Work – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Meredith Begin, mobile strategist at Upland Mobile Messaging, and Ellen Pascale, mobile marketing manager for The Humane Society of the U.S. 

Also, Emily Patterson, founder of Bee Measure. 

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

357: Run Like A Biz & Program Your Board – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Hillary Schafer, executive director of the Jefferson Awards Foundation.

Also, Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

356: Video Storytelling & Deep Pockets – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Yasmin Nguyen, CEO at VibranceGlobal, and Sheri Chaney Jones, president of Measurement Resources.

Also, Maria Semple, our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

326: News From Accounting & LinkedIn Latest – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Yigit Uctum, partner at Wegner CPAs.

Also, Maria Semple, our prospect research contributor & The Prospect Finder.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

316: 8 Areas Of Nonprofit Excellence – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Sharon Stapel, president & executive director of the Nonprofit Coordinating Committee, and Melkis Alvarez-Baez, deputy director.

Here’s the transcript

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

307: Happy Healthy Nonprofit & Your Job Descriptions – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Beth Kanter & Aliza Sherman, co-authors of the book, “The Happy, Healthy Nonprofit.”

Also, Heather Carpenter, co-author of the book, “The Talent Development Platform.”

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

288: Emotional Intelligence & Peer-To-Peer Tips – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Monisha Kapila, founder & CEO of ProInspire. 

Also, Mike Wuebben, chief product strategist at Crowdster.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

161: Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox & Optimize Your Social Profiles – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Dr. Robert Penna, author of “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox.”

Amy Sample Ward, CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN) and co-author of “Social Change Anytime Everywhere”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

View Full Transcript
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Path to text: transcripts/2013/09/161_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20130927.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. I’d suffer ventricular ticket. I screwed that up. I’d suffer ventricular tachycardia if it came to my attention became within my ken that you had missed the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Dr robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox, discussed the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement and gave concrete steps and tools so that small and midsize shops khun stay ahead of the trend toward outcomes assessment. That was part one of our interview from an earlier show and news sources new source maria simple are doi n of dirt cheap and free ideas is also the prospect finder, and last week she had advice for you on which news sources are best for your research and also a new free source from the foundation center foundation directory online this week, the non-profit outcomes toolbox part do from a previous show and optimize your social profiles. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor, has tips to find tune your profiles on the social networks like twitter and facebook. While staying true to mission and brand also using your profiles to promote campaigns and amy’s sixty seconds style stop she’s, the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten and her book is social change any time everywhere got lots of guests live in the studio is going to be lots of extra special live listener love as well as everybody listening worldwide. We’ll get to that right now. We’ll get to my previous interview with dr robert penna and the non-profit outcomes toolbox, bringing robert penna welcoming him back now, we were just before the break talking about the outcome statement should be meaningful, achievable, sustainable on dh the book goes into a little more detail, even oh, and i’d like to because i’d like to help our listeners achieve an outcome statement. You say that should be bound in time and number the outcome statement. What does that mean? Well, what it basically means is rather than saying, we’re going to change the world, it’s, that we’re going to specifically a change ah, certain measurable of facet of characteristic of someone for a certain number of people within a certain given period of time, so the idea said we’re going to achieve x for why number of people within two months, three months, one year, whatever it may be so that the idea is that first off it’s it’s tethered to ah, a certain number of people that you’re going teo achieve this for, and also a certain specific times. So that, for example, the investor knows when the payoff comes, let me give you another reason why this is crucial if you were if you read the book and i know you know you did, you probably came across the work capacity ten thousand times capacity. You don’t have to read the book to hear about capacity over the building, and i don’t know, but over here, this is a very, very specific use. If you haven’t outcomes approach, it automatically begs the capacity question, because if you are clear about what it is you want to achieve from that flows what it is you need to get there, which then challenges you to say, do i have that capacity most non-profits and i hate to use generalizations, but i think in this case, it’s true, most on profits and most people who are aware of the non-profit space, when you talk about capacity building the first thing they will think about his dollar signs. All right, we’re having a pass it e capacity raising effort. What? It’s a fund raiser. True capacity, however, has three levels. All right. The first one is structural capacity. How is the organization run? How is it managed? What’s the relationship between the board and the executive leadership what’s the quality of the training of the staff, et cetera. The second is what i call functional capacity. Basically, what that means is if you go, you do have the tools to do what you say you’re going to do. If you were an education organization, then you need educators. You need a curriculum. If you’re counseling organization unique counselors and you need some sort of models, they’re all your inputs. Yes, exactly. The third one, and perhaps the most important one is the implementation capacity. The’s are the thousand and one little things that not just non-profits, but anybody trips up, trips over when it comes to actually doing a job, it could be, for example, twenty. You or i are going to put up a curtain rod and it turns out, we don’t have a level. Well, if we don’t have a level, how we’re gonna make sure the curtain rod is level that’s an implementation capacity issue when you talk about a non-profit it could be everything from the from the requirement to provide transportation so the clients could actually get there to something like intake if you want. If you’re goingto have seventy five people, let us say graduate from your program will do you have the capacity for a nen take to actually process those seventy five people? So they’re not standing on line three hours and losing interest in wandering away who’s going to answer the phones let’s say you have a a an outreach effort going on and you have a training program and you put the word out on the street. But then it turns out that your non-profit is really run all by part timers, and most of the time, if anybody calls to get information, they’re either going to get just a phone that rings or they’re going to get an answering machine. That’s a capacity questions. So if you’re doing this correctly, it really forces you to look at a number. Of things including the capacity that you have to actually achieve the goals. If you don’t have it, then you either have to upgrade the capacity nufer have scaled back the goals and flowing from this quantification of of what you want outcomes to be is measurable because they become measurable when you’ve quantified and bound in-kind time number so we can, in fact, measure things that are i have previously been so just vague sort of objectives. Let me give you a classic example on this may sound like a bit of a stretch to euro to your readers, but you and i being roughly the same age, i think you have. You have readers we have listen that’s, right, our reader listeners, because they’re all gonna buy your book, my readers, just the non-profit outcomes toolbox published by wile e you recall when when when we were kids, we had things like, you know, lincoln logs and the directors were there, and they were even wood and the logs were made for right? Okay, this is going to sound like a bit of a weird one, but compare, think back, compare when you’re building one of those things. Too. When your mother built a big cake, your mother baked the cakes you took all the ingredients she pour them in a bowl should put him in a pan, she put in the oven and she lost at that point total control of what was going on. No one’s going to know whether cake was good or bad until after it was done. It came out. It was cool when you tasted it, and if something were on, there was nothing you could do. Thinking back, however, to the example, the lincoln logs with the tinker toys, the directors that we had a guide. The guide showed a step by step where we should be at every point in time if at any point in time, what we’re building didn’t look like the picture we could stop, we could go back and we could fix it, that’s one of the differences of working with outcomes as opposed to not when you don’t work without comes we have to be the only position you’re in is to hope for a good end result, but you can’t control it because you have no idea, really what’s going on with the variables. If you’re tracking using an outcome system, all right, and it is bound in time and is bound in number, and you do know that by a certain date x number of people should be at stage four. If they’re not there, then you still have time to fix it. If you have no clue where they’re supposed to be, or what we could do was hope for good results of the end. And if you don’t get it, well, then we did. You say sorry, better luck. Next time, you don’t know that as a child actually had an easy bake oven, i didn’t have the lincoln logs. My brother had elearning logs. I had the easy bake oven. They should also be your outcome statement verifiable, and this is all really, i’m i’m breaking it down the way you do in the book, but just flows naturally from the way you’re describing it. We have to be able to verify where we are time versus goal on dh and reassess, say more about verifiability. Verifiability basically means that some third party can look at it without spending a ton of money, because again, and this is that not to take anything away from professional evaluators, but evaluation cost money and professional evaluators and professional valuation services. I mean, these people are very good at what they do, but the point is that hopefully what you’re doing is verifiable in the easier way i mean, is there’s an old saying, you know, chicken soup is good for the soul? Well, it could be, but it’s, hard to tell. You know, what you want to do is you want to stick to things that have some fairly easily discernible evidence that can be seen and that’s what it means, my verifiable it means staying away from outcomes to talkabout, as you said before, well, somebody feels better about themselves in their place in the universe? Well, that’s a little bit nebulous. And so i would recommend that if you’re looking to create a good outcome statement, a good outcome for your program that you stay away from the cosmic, the psychic, the overly emotional and definitely the extraterrestrial. Okay, so first step to create a proper outcome statement is what decide what you want to be different at the end of this program. So you’re definitely looking forward toward the end, with the end in mind begins, and you say that the book begin with the engine dart with what do you want to be different about a certain situation or a certain set of conditions as a result of your program, start there. If you can’t define it, then maybe should rethink what you’re doing and in determining that you need to be bound in number and time and those miserable those of the descriptions as you working back, which is yes, but the idea is what you wanted start with is a change you want to start with being able to define a change. We’ve kind of alluded to this, but the basic basic idea of the changes what’s called the backs measures change in the behavior, attitude, condition, knowledge or status of those you seek to serve. So you start with the change in their behavior, their attitude, that condition and knowledge or the status and it doesn’t have to be a person. It could be a forest that could be it could could be a watershed. The status goes from being threatened to not tear being safe to being protected. But the idea is you start with the change and defining if you can’t define it, then my suggestion is you start to rethink a lot of organizations. Start with the problem. And then the next question is, what do we do? Well, what do we do? That’s that’s. The wrong place to start the place to start is first off. What changes do we want to bring about? Secondly, what resource is will it take to do that? Thirdly, you know what actions or programs will it take to effectuate that it’s? A total reverse of the usual way of approaching most of these issues. That’s. Ah, sort of a summary of of developing your own outcome statement. And there’s, obviously a lot more detail. In the book again, the book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, we have just about a minute before the break, how do we start to apply on outcomes analysis? You have a lot of tools in the book, but how do we get there? Well, first off an easy thing by the book, but beyond that, there are any number of very, very thoughtful people who have created some of these tools that are out there. The problem is that most non-profits i don’t know about them. Everybody, for example, is heard of the logic model. Well, what they don’t understand what the logic model was originally intended to do was to intended to be a supposed to the way a lot of people are suggesting it be used. Today there are alternatives to this, and the book is one way of finding out about them, and reinventing the wheel is not necessary. These wheels have already being been admitted to the question is knowing which ones work for you. And that was the whole concept behind the toolbox approach to the book that perhaps we can talk about after the break. Okay, way are going to take a break. If you’ve not heard of the logic model, then you’re with me. So i’m going to ask robert after the break to just briefly talk about that. And then we’re going to talk about some of tools and lessons you can learn from the for-profit from the corporate sector in outcomes measurement. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. 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What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back to the show. Our last segment. Let’s define the logic model because maybe i know it by a different name, robert, but you may know that what is that? That is actually the name of it, of the logic model is a away that non-profits have had for some years now of planned it’s, one of the tools that they’ve used for planning how to get to the outcomes from the starting point. But the logic model became very well known when kellogg adopted at the kellogg foundation. Same is the cereal people, the telephone, isha and united way of america adopted. And in both of those cases they kind of put the word out amongst their there either case of kellogg, that grantees, and in case of the united way of america, the local affiliates, that this was one of the earliest outcomes frameworks that you could potentially use not doing under do plug. But in my previous book, outcome frameworks, that was one of the things we talked about, because the idea was there were these various models, and how do they compare one to the other? And what were the pluses and minuses of all of them that had never been done before? Which is why i wrote that previous book, but the logic model truly was meant as a graphic illustration of cause and effect within a program that this input will lead to that which will lead to the third, which will lead to the fourth and hopefully get you two the the the the end point that you that you desire, the problem is it was never actually designed to be a management or tracking tool. And when organizations and there are a lot of people, very thoughtful people who do use it for this personally, i think it’s cumbersome and what you wind up with since the whole design was a flow chart, very often you wind up with all of these various lines at the doubling back on each other. So some of someone i know, okay, so we’re past that now that we’re in the outcomes toolbox, right? And why did you choose the toolbox metaphor? Kinds of the toolbox was very simple. Let’s go back to that curtain, rod, you and i, we’re going to put a human. You don’t go back to my eagle scout. No, no, i’m still sinjin. I’m going to go back. To the curtain rod, you’re not going to put up a few minutes ago without the level. Let’s say you’re putting up the curtain, ron and all the tools you had. We were craftsman. And at one point you needed that level that i mentioned and you say, bob, give me a level. Well, if the level i gave you was a stanley, would you refuse to use it? Because it was a question like all the other tools? Probably not. You would. You would use the tools at hand. Okay. In that non-profit space, most of these frameworks, our proprietary, this one belongs to ran. That one belongs to the rental of ill institute, the third one’s associated with this with this person or this institution. As a result, what traditionally happened was, let us say, a representative of that organization or the consultant came in and they would wind up basically saying to non-profits my model b a, b, c or d it’s the bass dramatic of outcome frameworks. It slices it, dices it chops, it walks the dog. It does everything. The problem is, none of them do everything. All of them do something. All of them. Do several somethings some of them do some things very well, but none of them do everything well. And so what we wound up doing was inadvertently offering them the space, a defense, eighty percent solutions to one hundred percent problems. It’s telling people, for example, that the logic model was the be all and end all was one such example. My concept is, and the reason is called the toolbox in the book, i do not care about the authorship, the ownership, the providence or anything else about any of these tools. If it works, i want you to use it, and i’m not going to tell you not to use it because you’re not using the other pieces of the same sex that’s the concept truly a toolbox reaching grab what works for you, and if you’re not oriented towards tools, think about it as a kitchen, you know, again, you know, if you have ah, you know, one brand of, you know, say, blender and another brand of you’re not going to not use them to the same meal because the different brands you’re going to use, what you need now, you’re in my space because now i mean that’s for my easy bake oven days. Okay, right. The kitchenware. That’s. What if that’s why i went there? I can see that was resonating with much more comfortable with spatulas than i am. Phillips head screwdriver. First time i used when i had to go to the emergency room that’s because you were trying to scrape a pan with. So the book has a lot of model of of these tools. Talks about, i don’t know, maybe a dozen or so. Some of the simplest ones are you get what you measure results based accountability, even one from mckinsey and company capacity assessment tool. But maybe not those necessary. But a lot of the tools in the toolbox do emanate from corporate outcomes. Measurements. Some of the some of the latter ones. A lot of, you know, there’s. A lot of what are what? No. Why is it translatable? I mean, from for-profit enough, for-profit you know, a lot of times not-for-profits community is worried about things that come from corporations. Yeah, with peter drucker. Except for money. Then i will write a cz investigators investors. But but now there is that fear. What were some of the lessons peter drucker made the comment that non-profit should be run more like business. And everyone thought that, you know, he was he was the prostate, and he was ah, heretical and my god, you know, corporations of big, nasty things. And after all we care, you know, we were the non-profit sector. The truth of the matter is that no one is more interested in outcomes in the corporate world. Now they tend to call the court that their outcomes profitability, market share, etcetera. But the idea is they’ve been leading the way literally since, you know henry ford was putting model tease out of on assembly line, there are tools, for example, like six sigma, there are tools eichsteadt saying, sabat against there are tools like six, six, six sigma six sigma. The question is, what the hells of sigma and where the six of them that’s explained in the book it’s basically a measure of quality. All right, six sigma focuses on how many failure rates are there per million opportunities to fail. I mean, you don’t really have to get into that, but the concept is it has some key insight something for example, like t q m t q jargon jail. Oh, ok, you know, you know, take your total quality, man. You know, i didn’t know what i mean. That’s what a quantum! And i’m not gonna go lock myself in georgian jail. What it means is critical to quality most non-profits when they’re designing a programme, do not ask this question, as the corporate world does with corporal world is launching and launching an effort one of the first things under six six but they would do is say, what is the most critical part of this that we need to have? If a non-profit were to adopt that kind of that kind of concept and that kind of analysis, it could go very, very far towards helping them focus on the most important parts of a program, the key things that they absolutely must have. But this is a a perspective that is very often far into the non-profit space, but very, very built into the corporate space, particularly using something like six sigma, i see a future masters degree in non-profit outcomes engineering yet it’s perfect, exactly there’ll be exactly well, but when we have maybe a moment, so we can talk about something called serve qual, which they use in pizza hut, if you imagine, think a tool from pizza being used in the non-profit space now that’s the that’s the suggestion that we talked about, regrettably, we’re out of moments right of moments, but the lesson is don’t be fearful of what comes from the non-profit from from the for-profit sector because these are all important, easily quantified things that corporations are focusing on, like earnings per share in a quarter, right? Exactly. And how do you get there? What do you need to do to get there? The book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, a complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results published by wally wiley and sons, you’ll find robert penn is blogged at outcomes, outcomes toolbox, dot com robert, thank you very much for being on the show. Pleasure. Thank you very much for having it was a pleasure and enjoyed immensely. Thank you. Very valuable interview and and a really valuable book. That non-profit outcomes. Toolbox. I got to start sending live listener love because we have in studio love. It’s. Incredible. My sister in law, christi weber. My niece by marriage. Morocco. Weber. My father in law, which also happens to be by marriage, pete drum, live in the studio, it’s. Unbelievable friends, jason kapoor and mark silverman, friends of mine from here in the city, and i, a visitor from from baden hyre, germany. Julia lights, julia, guten tag, all live listeners, all in the studio. At this moment, of course, we’ve got live listeners around the world, including kandahar, afghanistan, which is where my nephew is listening from shout out to him in afghanistan. Right now, we take a break when we come back. Tony’s, take two, and then amy sample ward, optimize your social profiles hanging there. They didn’t think that shooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get me anything. Nothing. Cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight free that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s ah, let’s, move into tony’s, take two this week on my blogged is let’s help a non-profit listener listener matt from minnesota, centene emailed me a question that his office was having a problem with seems that about six thousand of their end of year appeal letters went out asking people for the wrong donation amount because the spreadsheets or the query didn’t quite line up on dh. It had incorrect previous year’s donation amounts, so a fifty, dollar donors from two thousand twelve was said in the letter to have given fifteen hundred and was asked for a two thousand dollar gift when something more like seventy five or one hundred would have been appropriate and that went out about six thousand people. So matt was wondering, what do you think we should do? And i’ve got a bunch comments on the blogged from people around the country offering advice, and you can give your advice. Also, most of the comments run along the lines of send a very contrite letter, you know, apologize very explicitly and say that you’re taking steps so that it never happens again and that, you know, we value every donor. We’re very sorry and please don’t stop supporting us that’s the way most of the comments run, but you can give your advice to matt in minnesota, the post is called let’s help a non-profit listener and it’s on my block at tony martignetti dot com. I also want you to know that i’m going to be at bebe con this coming monday. The thirtieth of september b become is the blackbaud conference it’s going to be at the gaylord conference center outside washington, d c i’ll be there all day monday, doing interviews for the show got interviews lined up on mobile giving e-giving tuesday, which is a hashtag on twitter e-giving getting different society level gif ts building a fund-raising board fraud protection and a bunch more amy sample ward will be there as well. I’ll be talking to her as if we don’t talk to her enough, but she’s going to be there be becoming also, and i’m giving away some consulting time on monday. Two hours there’s two different ways to win one hour of consulting time you can either ah tweet on using the hashtag non-profit radio on monday and if you do that, you’ll be entered into a contest, and the other way is if you’re at the big con, come to the stage where i’ll be doing the interviews on the exhibit floor and drop your business card in the bowl and i’ll select a business card at the end of the day and one of you a tte. The conference will win a free hour of consulting it’s your choice can have either plant e-giving consulting or charity registration. Two different ways to win i’m giving away on our of sorry two hours of free consulting on monday, so have to either see you would be become or see your tweets using the hashtag non-profit radio, and that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty seventh of september thirty eighth show of the year. I’m always privilege to welcome amy sample ward back she’s, the ceo of the non-profit technology network, and ten her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement her block is amy sample, ward, dot or ge and she’s at amy r s ward on twitter. Welcome back, amy, thanks for having me, you sound terrific, you’re you’re in toronto, on skype, right? I am. Can you hear me? Ok, actually, yes, sounds very, very good, actually sounds almost sort of studio quality. You must be in a nice, quiet room. What were you doing in toronto? I i’m not. I’m actually in a hallway, but i’m glad it soon. Good. I’m here for our test interactions with the conference yesterday, and a lot of it was a lot of fun, actually, people from all different sides of the non-profit technology, a topic coming together and a lot of a lot of case studies sharing what they have been working on, things like that, okay? And, uh, you want to share one thing that is memorable for you so far from the conference. I was really excited how many people were there ready to talk about data, not as a like idea, but people saying, oh, so we’ve been measuring x and we have seen this trend have you seen it? You know, and really jumping into commerce stations with the expectation that everyone else was also really looking at their impact, really trying to quantify what they were doing and, you know, share their tips or commiserating in some failures together. Cool sounds like a lot of valuable cross talk, all right? Yeah, i guess you’re going from toronto to washington area for b becomes yes, exactly. Okay, we’ll talk about that a little later. I know i’ll be seeing you there, but we want to talk about today optimizing your social profile. So we’re getting a little a little a little tactical today. Sometimes we’re sometimes were strategic and little, well, theoretical, but always valuable, but today would be a little tactical. Um, wait, we got to keep our social profiles, whether it’s, facebook, twitter, these have to be aligned with our work. How do we how do we make sure we’re doing that? Well, it’s, you know, i think a lot of people start from this place where they have heard that, you know, social channels, all these social profiles are an opportunity to extend their brand or you really make themselves visible out there. And so that here these kind of jargon, jail type phrases and think, oh, great, so we just put up a facebook page and, you know, put slap our logo on it, just like our website. Excuse me. Hey, but in reality, that’s not what? Extending your branded but also doesn’t match what’s happening there. It isn’t a good representation of your mission. So how can those channel really serve that goal? Well, think about it. Not just and here’s your logo and your profile picture, but who are the people behind your organization or who had that? Supporters? You know, how do you how do you let those social channels? The social, but also really clear photos, text, etcetera. You could explain just what you do, you know, it’s an opportunity. All the webs, you know, website like present that different but targeted across across the web. You know what i think about organizations that do kind admission direction well, you, whatever channel you’re on, you know, it’s, but it feels different each one feels like, you know, a different room in the same house, you know, the living room is maybe still the same style of the people that lived there, but it has more couches and maybe a fireplace, and then you go into the kitchen and again, maybe same style of the people that lived there, but this is where, you know, there’s more lights, there’s, a bunch of cookery, etcetera. So so how how do you make that on the different social profiles will, first of all, don’t forget that they’re trying to help you. You know, you don’t want to try and hide all of the different components of that facebook page, for example, let those pieces be there because people on facebook, i expect them to be there used them to your advantage, you know, you don’t and feel the furniture out of every room where all the way across the house really put, you know, make those counters. The best darn couch is, they could be in the living room, even though maybe there you’re branded colors and they met kayman uniform makes sense, but before and even before you start there, i mean, you have to take a look at which channels you should even be in, you know? You’re talking about a lion with where your people are, you know, you you have to know that and what we’re just what sites are appropriate for your for your work and your people exactly, and some of that, you know, i’m always surprised when i think data is important and helpful and valuable, and if you can look at data to say, oh, wow, you know that the demographics of these certain tools or that you know, our our community, probably there that’s only one side of the equation just because you may have a bunch of, you know, parents between the ages of thirty six and forty five in your community, it doesn’t mean that they necessarily want to be engaging with your programs and content on facebook just because demographically, they’re probably on facebook, they maybe see facebook is a, you know, a place to go share photos of beds with their parents. You know what? It’s nine o’clock at night and they’ve finally gotten tohave happen our to themselves, they don’t want to. Spend a half hour with you, you know, maybe there’s a different channel for your for engaging with your community beyond just what the demographics say. So i think you have to also look at what is the content you even delivering just because your people, maybe you’re on twitter, the content you’re sharing with them, maybe can’t ever fit in one hundred forty characters are maybe isn’t something they’re going to pick out of their twitter street. You know anyone? Who’s just opened up twitter and let it sit there it’s just flowing by so finding a match between like you said, your community and the channel, but also your content in the channel and made it may just not make sense to be posted there. Okay, we’re going toe were to take a break on dh. Well, amy and i have ah, well, extra time today, so we’re going to keep talking about aligning your work with the social networks where you where you ought to be, how to keep consistent with the brand and even, you know, if you happen to be in a campaign, how to do that promotion successfully and when we come right back. It’ll be mohr live listener, love. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lots more live listener love we’ve got listeners in moscow in chung ching, beijing and shenzhen, china, for those in china knee how? Seoul, korea, seoul always checks in always multiple people in seoul i love that anya haserot for our listeners in in korea and also tokio japan frequently have people from japan could each awhile. All right, amy, um let’s, let’s, wait, we got to get to some details here so we don’t leave people which i know concerns you as well, you know, we don’t leave people with more questions than answers, so let’s let’s get in. I mean, how do you how would you test whether twitter that’s a great example because it does go by so fast? What questions would you asked to determine whether twitter is a good platform for you? Treyz well, i mean, i think we’ve talked about this on the show before and that is try to do some research, ask people directly, you know, do you want to be engaging with us on this channel? A are you using this channel? You know, just try and get that information, but there is nothing like the empirical proof of just testing. It and, you know, setting up a profile even if it isn’t, you know, necessarily the most intense organizational profile, and you have a mess of content strategy if you just want to devote a couple weeks testing the channel tested out, see how it goes, keep track of what you’re doing, you know, organisations that have really been able to increase amount of engagement on twitter have done things like, you know, don’t just track all we put, we tweeted, and people reply just but say what time of day did the most retweets happened? Not just when did you tweet, but when we’re other people finding your content and re posting it, you know or how many times did people reply or or retweet a certain post versus another one? Okay, what was special about that content? You know, really tryingto understand the mechanics of what’s going on with the community there because, you know again, it is both the content and the people that your you have to try and match, so testing it out is the only way to really you know, prue? What? What does that what doesn’t work okay? And then, of course, you have all your analytics, the analytical tools also, exactly. Okay, let’s, talk about the profile now, since you know we’re supposed to say we’re focusing on the profile what you get let’s, keep with the twitter example, but then we’ll look at a couple others because you and i have some extra time together today twitter, twitter, your your limited number of characters you khun you can devote to your profile how how do you know what belongs in there? Upleaf well, i think what what belongs first of all is the shortest version of what you can say about your mission. Next is who it is that’s tweeting because at the end of the day, no one thinks it’s actually quote unquote your organization, they know it’s, some staff, a person or people, so call it out, make that transparent, and then leslie is including a link backto either you know what i mean to your website, but i would encourage you not to just use the home page of your website to send people to a more tailored entry, whether that’s, you know, maybe a community page where you linked to your different social profiles and then expect people to be, you know, clicking back and saying, oh, this is where you know they engage or maybe of a specific program area you want a link to but include that direct connection back to the website let’s, talk about facebook profiles. What if you have? If you’ve gone through your analytics, you determine that facebook is a suitable platform for you is what you’re goingto do on your facebook profile. It’s going to be different than twitter? I mean, it allows more media, too. Yeah, exactly. And you know it, what you do with that profile, especially on a channel like facebook where there’s, just so much content opportunity, you’re setting the tone for how you want people to engage with that page, are you? You know you have a really engaging, bright fun, you know, header, photo and and you are posting photos along with your text well, that’s encouraging the community to also pose that you know, that’s, the content they seize on the page, or are you you know, do not even have a header image, and then you just have your logo is your profile photo, and you’re just, you know, constantly posting links. To your website? Well, if that’s the nasty example no one’s going to post because they don’t have a link to your website to share, you know, you really think about it as, like here’s, the example of what you want the community to do and build it out around that which is why, you know, some of the most engaging facebook pages, the ones that have, you know, the most number of people that like it, but also consistently engaged with paige are ones that have photos of the community or, you know, photos from events that the organization has done things where people go to the page and they see it as hears that window into the programs and the impact the organization is having and of course, you want to be there. Don’t you want to be a part of the fun impact and, you know, making that mission happen? Of course, you know, on one side, we certainly think that’s what people be on our website, but they just get so heavy and bogged down with every piece of content we’ve ever created and, you know, on the social profiles we get highlights the really great engaging pieces first, here we are talking about twitter and i get a little phone quick phone alerts when i give a new twitter follower. I just got a new twitter follower as we’re sitting here talking about twitter kapin remind, you have to be my niece who’s sitting in the studio, but no would take whatever the hell we can get it. And if you want to join my niece, you khun, you can follow me at tony martignetti um, let’s let’s keep keep going because, you know, i get i get a little ah troubled, always talking about twitter and facebook. Let’s, let’s, pick another couple profile what’s, another what’s, another another site that you see non-profits spending time on and doing well and again after you’ve been through your own analytics and you’ve tested it as amy was describing, you’ve described that this other channel, which is about to talk about, might make sense for you. What? What should your profile look like on that channel? What do want talk about amy? You know, i’ve seen some non-profits re certainly really doing a great job on instagram and, you know, it’s, obviously a morning platforms so you’re not going to see, you know, on facebook, sometimes you see a big organization has, like, you know, a thousand likes on a poster on a image, and you’re just not going to have a thousand likes on your instagram photo or video, but you’re still gonna have some, you know, andi, what i think is great is that organization you’re already planning and creating this content well, you have images, and you you have what, mr graham? So, you know, each channel could be the same quote unquote, like horse, which is packaged in different ways that makes sense for that channel. So including instagram in your your list of outlets, i think it’s great a great thing to test out to try see if you have community there because it’s so unlike facebook, where if you posted, you know, multiple posts and multiple photos and one day people would, you know, get a little turned off the algorithm is hiding your post already from, you know, most of your your fans, instagram there’s, no filter, no one, you know, whatever isn’t in the cds in the feed and it’s not the kind of channel where organizations they’re saying like if you post multiple times in a day, people are getting tired of it instead they’re like oh, cool, what are you doing now? You know, because that’s, the culture of that channel is cool. What what’s the photo? What are you doing now? And just kind of scrolling through them? Okay, now you and i devoted segment not too long ago, teo tumbler so and listeners could go back and look for that. So we’ll we’ll skip tumbler, but what’s, another what’s, another site you you’d like to talk about? Same, you know, same same you know what? What should you profile be focused on? Yeah, i mean, i think one as faras like this conversation of extending your brand and really you leveraging what the components of that platform are to engage people, you’ll bring them into your content. I think youtube is super underutilized because for non-profits you can have so many of the additional youtube customization tools and components for free so you can have a totally branded youtube channel. You could have called action and your video i mean there’s just so much that non-profits they’re missing out because, you know, even if you don’t have huge, like documentaries it’s not hard to create videos, especially now that, you know we’re all we’re all create them with their phone, even so having these short pieces, whether captured at events or, you know, even like a thirty second video that says we’re about to launch a campaign tomorrow you get ready and it’s just it’s just kind of there to make people feel like they’re in the know, and they’re part of your work again because you can post it to a channel that’s totally branded you could have, like, like folders, you know, hear all the videos about this topic on people can scroll through, i think there’s a lot of potential with youtube non-profit durney kapin okay, maybe we should devote a show. Teo youtube. Okay, okay. And those folders appreciated referring teo playlists. You can have a playlist on different topics like on mind theirs. B b com twenty twelve there’s different conferences have been too there’s. One for stand up comedy, i think that’s the folders you’re referring to yet played their playlist. Okay, okay. All right. You know, since we have the luxury of time, is there one more channel? You want to. You want to talk about? Hyre no. Okay, i don’t want to just spot, okay? Okay. Because you think about it. That’s ok? We got it. We got other topics. We don’t talk about depth on channels. Um, let’s, talk about your campaign. If you happen to have a campaign, whether it’s a thirty day campaign or, you know, a more traditional sort of campaigns, you know, might last three year, three, four years, you know, some capital campaigns go on that long. How do you expose that campaign within your within these the social sites profiles? Well, and then this goes back to the earlier point about really taking advantage of the specific functionality that each platform has, you know, unique teo like with facebook because that’s leverage that is very in the example. You have two photos that you get to take advantage of. You have that big header image, but then you also have your profile photo, and again, just how you are setting the tone for the kind of engagement you want there campaigns have also been really successful at taking advantage of that profile photo and encouraging people to eat to share that and they get their own profile photo. And really spreading the campaign message or brand that way, you know, because it’s facebook makes it very easy just click on something and say, make-a-wish my probono so where, you know, on other channels, it may not be quite as easy, but you see, you see similar profile photo based campaign extensions on twitter, you know, where they have, you know, i think it’s called a women are things like that where you’re just adding kind of an image layer on top of the photo, so it has a little, you know, i’m sure you’ve seen them stars are a little banner along the bottom that says, you know, media campaign hashtag etcetera so i think that’s a really clear called action for a campaign is like, okay, today we’re launching everyone make this your profile photo, for example, andi, i think one of the most recent, very large scale example that that was the hrc campaign about turning facebook red. Okay? Ohh even write human rights campaign. Yes. Ok. Yeah. And you know beyond just the image on the on the various profiles associated to a campaign. You also have the opportunity. If you are, you say running. A campaign where you’re really encouraging engagement on twitter and you know you have a pacific campaign hashtag go edit your twitter bio to say we are running this campaign the hashtag learned more so that as people retweets your tweets and they’re like, oh, my retreated this, i’m going to check him out, they don’t open up, you know your twitter profile and see okay, you’re some organization based wherever you know, make sure that you’re you’re actually updating the profile information on the different channels when you’re running a campaign and not just the image or don’t just start posting the content, make sure that you know the profile itself when people find you explain the campaign and just your organization. It’s probably so easy to forget toe update your profile here you are doing all this multi-channel strategy around a campaign on don’t forget toa talk about it and you’re and publicizing your profiles exactly because you set the profile up, you know it’s, not something that people keep up to date and that’s that’s sort of i mean, that’s really subsumed everything everything you’re saying you got news all the time profile is not something you only look at when you set up the accountant on don’t look at it that’s all subsumed in what you’re saying, right? Okay, especially during campaign times when you’re getting in theory, hopefully a lot more new people singing your social profile. Well, they’re saying that for the first time, they want to know why. Five friends, we’re just talking about you and of all that you have is information about your general mission. Well, they don’t know why they’re friends were talking about you, you know, it’s a great place to put some of those campaign hooks and called action just in a couple of minutes. We want to emphasize something that you and i have always talked about. This is not only multi-channel online, but you’re offline strategies have to coordinate with all this as well. Exactly. So that was your if you are planning to have any direct mail pieces, you know, make sure those match up and it’s a great way to think we checked before time. Direct mail drops with when you launch things online, so send an email that says, hey, we’re going to be, you know, standing up for this campaign a couple days later and direct mail piece comes and then you know, that same day or the next day, you really launch it on social well, by the time you tweeted they’ve already seen it three times in really personal ways that got emails, they got, you know, postcards and now you posted about it on twitter there, ready to actually engage. Excellent. Okay, we have to leave that topic there. It’s time for your your first sixty second style stop. Wei had this. We’re talking. Yeah, we’re talking about either travel or leisure or food. What? What do you have? Sixty seconds. Only sixty second style stop. Oh, my goodness. Well, i was thinking about this today because i am actually traveling and my at least my personal tip is whatever i need right after i land whether it’s, my pajama or, you know, food, whatever. I put that in my like purser carryon bag because i hate feeling like i have to unpack my entire suitcase just to go to bed when i get to the hotel in the night or something, you know that way, whatever you actually need in your first few hours where you land is in the same bag outstanding. Cool. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. From the hallway in toronto. Amy sample war. Exactly. Any simple board ceo of non-profit technology network you’ll find her blah, gamey sample war dot or ge, and on twitter at amy rs ward and i’ll be seeing you on monday with your co author, alison kapin, right? Yeah, and looking forward to it. Okay, cool metoo haven’t seen you for a while. Bye, amy. I think i got some last minute live listener love new bern, north carolina, paradise valley, arizona bloomfield, new jersey and bill in court, france welcome live listener love and, of course, always to our podcast listeners podcast pleasantries, always grateful for the podcast listeners next week. Roger, matt lov and joy hunter show you are the co authors of non-profit investment and development solutions, a guide to thriving in today’s economy, and they will be with me for the hour over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities listen each week, you know how to reach me. If you’d like to talk about sponsoring the show, we’ve got one that’s going to be starting next week, early october. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point. Oh, the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, and our music is by scott stein. I hope you’ll be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com e-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. Good. 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You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? 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160: Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox & News Sources/New Source – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Dr. Robert Penna, author of “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox.”

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now!”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent for friday, september twentieth i’m your aptly named host. Oh, you know that i hope you were with me last week. I’d be put through mitral regurgitation if i heard that you had missed cause marketing one oh one trish in naper, principal manager at alcoa foundation and mounir panjwani, business development manager at do something dot or ge shared tips for getting started in cause marketing and internal social networks. Scott koegler, our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, explained how internal social networks compliment the external networks like twitter and facebook this week. The non-profit outcomes toolbox dr robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox, discusses the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement and gives concrete steps and tools so that small and midsize shops can stay ahead of this increasing trend toward outcomes assessment. This is part one of our interview from a previous show, and part two is going to be next week. Also, news sources new source maria simple are dyin of dirt, cheap and free ideas in prospect research and the prospect finder she’s got advice for you on which news sources are best for your research and a new free offering from the foundation center called foundation directory online, plus her sixty second style stop. We’re going tow! Try having one minute tips on style like travel, food and leisure from guests. I’ll be anxious to know what you think about these sixty second style stops between the guests on tony’s take two my block this week is planned e-giving saved our ass and also i want to tell you about bb con coming up, i’m going to be there will say a little about that got contests that’s in tony’s, take two my pleasure now to give you my interview with dr robert penna and the non-profit outcomes toolbox. My guest now is robert penna. He is the author of a complete i’m sorry, the non-profit outcomes toolbox, a complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results published by wiley and sons he’s, a consultant, and his work includes the application of corporate sector, outcome based tools and insights to the work of non-profits he’s done work for the n e casey foundation, the national geographic foundation and the ford. Foundation he’s, an adviser to charity navigator on outcomes. I’m very glad that his work and his book bring him to the studio. Robert. Welcome. Thank you very much for having pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming all the way down from albany. No problem. Live in the studio. In the studio. We hear an increasing amount of talk about outcomes, outcomes, measurement. Why is that? I would save it for basically two reasons. The ones historical. The fact is that traditionally and this goes back easily to the beginning of the last century. No one ever asked non-profits to be quite fair, no one ever asked non-profits to either show evidence of or to demonstrate that they were having an actual impact. That was sort of a field of dreams and concept. If we make it available, things must get better. And it was taken on faith that train people with good programs with enough money would bring about positive change. Nobody actually quite asked that all started to change in the late seventies and then into the eighties, and quite independently of one another in various spaces. This concept of a focus on results in outcomes. And evidence of the same started a crop up, and it began to coalesce and particularly as we are in an in an era of limited resource is it becomes more important than ever for non-profits to be able to say here’s actual evidence of what we’ve accomplished, as opposed to a story about how big the problem is or how hard we’re trying in his forward. Ken berger, president, ceo of charity navigator who’s been a guest on the show, says that measurement is a battle for the very soul of the nonprofit sector. Ah, it’s taking on that great a prominence? Yes, it is that actually that line comes from a from an article ken and i co co authored it really is because there are those apologised who honestly believe in its ah term used before a fair exchange of differing ideas who honestly believe that non-profits and their clients should not be held. Tio this kind of accountability that the concept of just making services available truly is the mission of the non-profit space and that as long as they’re doing that, they’re doing their job. The problem is that for all of the money we’ve spent thes problems haven’t gone away, and so the question is, shouldn’t we be putting our our resource is into those programs into those organizations that have proven that there having the most beneficial impact, as opposed to giving it to other places that are perhaps not being as effective? The problems are too big, and the resource is of too scarce not to do this anymore, but it truly is a battle within the sector because there are those who just don’t believe in it, and we’ll get to a little of what their arguments are, maybe obliquely only, but that some of the ideas are so nebulous that they can’t be measured that like a child feeling a more positive ah feeling about education or about going to school, sort of nebulous ideas like that, but actually, those, um, sort of feel good outcomes can be measured. Well, first off, i would argue that if an organization is focusing primarily or almost or solely on feel good outcomes, they’re rethinking what they’re doing. Number one but number two there are proxies. There are proxies in terms of attitude, in terms of behaviour, in terms of various other kinds. Of things that can be looked at and can be taken as fairly accurate measures of whether or not if what you want to changes in attitude, whether or not that attitude has changed so it can be done, and we’re gonna talk about some of the ways that non-profits get there and the way that we can measure these things, um, is the butt is the story is the non-profits story the compelling story is that is that dead? Well, it it shouldn’t be dead, but what it should be, what should happen is that should be put in its place. Okay? The idea of telling a story is not a bad one, in fact, that there’s a whole chapter in the book that talks about using narrative as opposed to just factoids, because people remember stories where they have a tendency to forget much more vivid right stories vivid. But the problem is, if the if the story first off focuses on how big the problem is and that’s all it, it focuses on, and there are a number of non-profits i won’t name any, but you could probably think of them. You get things in the mail. And they show you the picture of x, y or z and it’s always how big the problem is, when we’re telling that kind of story and that’s all we’re telling we are in a way, avoiding entirely the question of, well, what do you doing about it and what other results that you have that you have achieved so that’s one one reason why the story has to be put in his proper place? The second is, and i don’t know whether we’ll get into this today, but a lot of non-profits wind up telling the wrong story for the wrong reason and ofttimes to the wrong people so that something has to be carefully handled as well. Okay, we have just another minute before a break, what if not a named example? What do you mean? Telling the wrong story? A lot of non-profits will focus on an emotional story that will highlight, for example, a success story, and it will be about this client of that client, but inadvertently, what they’re doing is they’re focusing the attention on that client. What we don’t know is, is that story cherry picked? How representative actually, is it what they’re not talking about is thie the the work that the organization as a whole does it’s it’s, shall we say, it’s it’s, macro impact. They focus so specifically on the story of this particular client at that particular client, it becomes very easy for their overall message of what they’re doing to be lost, counterproductive in counterfeit. His book is the non-profit outcomes, toolbox, it’s, robert penna. You’ll find his blogged outcomes, toolbox, dot com, and he’ll be with me after this break, so stay with us talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our coaching and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com oppcoll are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect no more it’s time. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio talking to robert penna about his book the non-profit outcomes toolbox right before the break, robert, we were talking about, um, for too much focus on problems. But the non-profit sectors exists to solve problems. So shouldn’t they be talking about what the problems are? Well, again, it has to be put into its proper place into its proper perspective. And this is not, you know, women, teo, bash the sector. Okay. I mean, we have to be honest and say this is a historical perspective and very early on this was how attention was brought. Tea to issues were literally going back to the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds. Um, people, for example, he’d carry nation she’s well known for wanting tio bring about prohibition. Well, what she talked about was all of the ancillary downsides of alcoholism, all right, and the folk. But the focus was on drink. The focus was on people drinking too much. And the idea was they didn’t think, think it through to say, well, what’s really gonna happen. What other causes here. It was just focused on the drinks. So we had prohibition and guess what? All of those issues did not go away. The issues of broken families, the issues of domestic violence, the issues of unemployment, the issues of of poverty didn’t go away just because, well, we got rid of alcohol for those period that period of time. So part of the problem of the focus on just the problem is it tends to lead to simplistic answers because the concept is that progress is a lack of the problem when, in point of fact, really, the outcomes approach is that what you want to do is bring about some positive change that goes beyond merely an absence of the problem. So that’s one of the problems with focusing on just the problem, the second thing is that it kind of takes you off the hook if you think about it, for having to say, really what you have done to alleviate the problem or what success you’ve had in alleviating the problem. If every time i come back to you, pick an issue, homeless puppies, i come to you and i sent put something in the mail and tony, you know, look at all these starving puppies, and i say it was ten thousand starving puppies and you know it, justin in manhattan or something. That’s, a problem. And you emotionally are expected to resupply with a cheque will. Now, next year i come back and i say, well, now, there’s ten thousand homeless puppies. This still ten thousand homeless puppies will again. What it keeps focusing on is the problem. It does not focus on am i having an impact on alleviating situation. So that’s, a real son of short way of describing why that tends to be a ah sort of a circle, you know, like the snake eating its own tail. It really doesn’t get you where you need to pay. And you alluded to earlier the fact that we do still have deep seated, entrenched problems that we have been working on for generations like homelessness, entrenched poverty, etcetera. Exactly right be a hunger of broken family, you name it, these problems, or of worldwide. And so you might even get thes these appeals from any place on the globe. But it tends to in a lot of ways, i think the lead to a sense of defeat because, i mean, think about it if every single year you get the same appeal from the same organization showing the same picture of the same a person in need. The question starts to hate begs the question, well, what’s happening with my money, what we’ve been at it for so long, and we’re still seeing the same right? The one problem? One gentleman i speak speaking to someone’s ago, he runs a non-profit e program in ohio, and he said to me, well, do candy said, you know, we’ve been fighting this war on poverty for, you know, forty something years, and i’m not so sure we have anything to show for it. And part of the reason is that from the beginning, what we have to show for it was not the accent the accent was on making money available and making programs available. You’ve heard a thousand times there, the concept, the underserved community, right, which you could argue about whether they’re actually underserved enough but that’s a different story. But the question is what it seems to lead to. It leads to the implication that if you make services available, things will be better. Well, that’s not necessarily true. Just making them available, zach. Will will result in the outcome that you want exactly, and for years social investors you know, traditionally called funders, we’re investing in making services available rather than investing in change, and if you’re investing in change, then there ought to be sameer marks of the change. The whole concept of moving your your your your head away from the idea of being a thunder what’s being an investor is one of the first the first steps what’s a funder and interested in a funder, is interested in the dispersement of funds. In terms of the process, the paperwork who’s it going to what’s it being used for what’s, an investor interest is an investor and investor wants a return let’s talk about some more of the language differences that you point out not so much differences, but the important language around outcomes measurement that takes up roughly the first third of the book or so gent generally outputs versus outcomes outputs of what you do outcomes of what happens because of what you did okay example of an output and output is training class, and the outcome would be that somebody got a job by virtue of having been trained and more importantly, kept the job for a reasonable amount of time. When and this was this was rampant in the late sixties and seventies. Excuse me when thanks to largely to government, we got into being counting and compliance organisations were measured onto in terms of how many fannies their head in the seats, how many training training class they help? Well, that was great. But then it turned out in some cases people we trained for jobs that no longer existed or the training was insufficient, or there really was no placement attached to it. So we had organizations claiming success because they’ve had x number of fannies in the seats, or because they held so many training’s or the game, but someone certificates. But the end of the day was anybody hyre did anybody did anybody’s life improved? Well, don’t ask me that question when i focused on that were protest on how many training on the output not come from the outcomes spring from the outputs. Yes, yes, you need the outputs in order to get the outcomes and they have to be the right outputs. But again, if that is only just your focus is there’s a saying that a colleague of mine, a colleague of mine who wrote a book, if well, you fundez activity that’s usually all you get? Yes. Okay. All right. Impact, impact flows from outcome. What? Tell us about it and that’s down the road that’s down the road. In other words, for example, let us say that what you were talking about was bringing possible water. And this is something i was engaged in a t united nations potable water, fresh water supplies to certain kinds of villages. I was pronouncing potable. Is that okay? Potable vote on a laudable somebody made a tomato, somebody from and why you were calling correct one of us. I have to. But i was so it’s possible that anyone, when you’re with the united nations. So that’s a hyre i’m just tony martignetti non-profit radio it’s hyre hyre hyre stand. But you had a situation where okay you’re you’re bringing fresh water and now you could think of a host of reasons early on why you might want to do that. One of the more interesting ones to me was to alleviate the burden on the women and girls in the village usually whose job it is to do nothing while david hole water one of the reasons why their educational opportunities were so so stunted was because, well, gee, somebody’s got to get the water and that’s the woman and children’s job rather a woman and girls job. Well, let us say that you bring it in and let us say that some girl does get to go to school. Well, perhaps if twenty years later, when she’s an adult, she actually has a business and gets out of the out of the village, that might be an impact. But the problem with the focusing on impacts these long term impacts is very often the causal chain is extremely weak. The causal chain is broken and it’s kind of hard. Teo teo to take credit for some things. I mean, we’ve all heard the stories of the head start program that’s taking credit because thirty five years later, one of their graduates became the head of some, you know, ceo of some company. Well, you know, thanks, snusz because back in nineteen forty seven, he was with us in today’s end of a corporation. I don’t know about that, but i honestly would say impacts agreed to have these are the kinds of things you see in mission statements and vision statements, the long term impacts, what organizations need to do is figure out how to translate those things into measurable, achievable, significant, meaningful outcomes. Okay? And shortly, we’re gonna talk about the outcome statement and contrast it with the mission statement and talk about what the elements are and how to get to ah, no a ah, a proper and and viable outcome statement. So yeah, and and just around impacts you say in the book impacts or what we hoped for, outcomes are what we work for. We’ve talked about that means your outcomes or what you’re working toward the impact of the the longer term we we we talked about funder donorsearch versus investor, anything else you want to say about the about? Maybe non-profits looking at themselves as invest, ese. Well, that’s, that’s a very good point. I mean, when someone gives you a gift christmas gift. Okay, now we’ve all had the relative who gives us something. And then every once a while checks oh, yeah? Are you using it? You? Have you been? Did you like the sweater? Most people that give you a gift, they hope you like it, but they really don’t have any kind of control. Now. My grandmother used to give me cash. She would slip me cash in by hand like a handshake, and she would always say, spend it like you earned it. My grandmother never did that. You didn’t know i’m sorry. You know, my grandmother borrowed but no that’s, um, we’re not related event starting now, but the idea is when someone gives you a gift really the in most cases, the strings got, you know, the the very there, the influence they have over the use of that gift, et cetera. Well, the problem is, when you think of yourself, if you’re a non-profit as a grantee of donor of a donation or giving, okay, the implication that the onus is on you to deliver something back to that to that donor to that investor is i like to use use the term is much less clear than if you see them as investors and you see yourself as an invested because right from the start from the basic language, what we’re making clear is that you owe them a return investments give returns exactly. And so the mindset shifts that i mentioned before the first one is moving from the concept of thunder to investor. The second is moving from the concept that what we’re investing in is the provision of services opposed to we’re investing in change. And then what are those changes and how do you define them? And the third thing is that we are going to be satisfied with an account of activity as opposed to actual evidence of results, performance and effectiveness thes air three crucial mindset shifts that the space has to eventually and will adopt, and the sooner non-profits get on this, the better off they’ll be. You quote stephen covey saying, it is incredibly easy to be very busy without being very effective. Well, we’ve always have seen those people who can, you know, go to the office in the busy all day, and at the end of the day, what have they actually accomplished? And the answer is, you know, not a heck of a lot and that’s, you know, that’s, the wife, i’m with robert pennant he’s, the author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Let’s, talk a little about the outcome statement versus the how does it contrast with the mission statement? The well, mission statements of very often pie in the sky and aspirational mean they ought to be yes, and an inspirational okay, okay, but the idea is that the idea that we’re going to solve a problem in our time, we’re gonna end poverty. We’re gonna end homeless. Is thies air the kinds of things that you very often see working their way into? Ah, emission statement or vision statement. The problem is that how do you then actually turn around and effectuated if you basically go to an investor and they said, what do you know what we’re going to? We’re going to end and homelessness well, you’re probably not. So when you don’t, what do you could do? You come back and say i failed an outcome statement is based upon a couple of key characteristics that good outcomes have among those are all right. It’s, meaningful it’s not a cosmetic change. It’s sustainable that’s. A very, very important one, right? It’s achievable. All right, there’s. An old statement. Everyone talks about the weather. No one does anything about it. Why? Because global warming aside, it’s. Tough to do anything about the weather. All right, but if you ah, couch your your goals in not slam dunks you want, they want them to be doable with a stretch. You clearly want to push yourself. All right. But the idea is that you want it to be something that can be achieved in your lifetime on dh something that can be measurable. The sustainable part is particularly crucial. I think of my involvement. I’m a lifelong scout on fifty. Eight years old and your first join the boy scouts when i was ten kayman eagle scout well, i never made it that i was in the order. The arrow you want? Ditigal oh, no, no, no it’s different. But i have a son who was in the order of the arrow and he’s an eagle scout like vicarious thrills. But we i remember ah, project where are we going to clean up a lot. And tha this lot had been used as a dumping ground. The scouts came in and we weed whackers and rakes and tree pruners. And we’re trying to look like a park who had done right and we congratulate ourselves. Up, up, up we all went home in that night’s peace. Somebody dumped a refrigerator. It wasn’t a sustainable achievement because we didn’t have the facility for either blocking it office, stopping people from dumping again. So the concept has to be again in terms of a good outcome, one of the characteristics and aki one is this concept of sustainability, but again, to go back to your question about the difference between a mission statement of vision statement and an outcome statement a lot. Of organizations all right have a tough time differentiating in the book i refer to ah, vision approach. You may recall the book in the book, i had a picture of some futuristic city, teo illustrate that my belief is that mission statement envision statements are both great things that good ideas, they’re visionary, they belong up on the wall, but they don’t belong in terms of you every day action plan, they’re different from an action plan it’s the difference be between having the long term goal of i wanted to be fit. I want to be trimmed and having an actual diet that you’re that you’re following. All right? Um, you know, there are numerous examples we could weigh could point to okay, i’m realizing now, since we’re talking about since i’m talking about being an eagle scout, i’m really you know, i didn’t measure the the outcomes of my eagle scout project, which was teo. Make sure that address is street addresses were visible to emergency services in my little town of altum panned new jersey, which had maybe three thousand homes or so, so we looked at every home and where there wasn’t a visible address. From the street that a policeman or fireman or the ambulance could find could see it easily. We left a note in the in the mailbox, and the note was signed by the police chief, the fire chief and the head of the angelus score. But that’s just that’s just activity. I don’t know what the outcome’s were. I don’t know if more lives were saved police response times, we’re reduced fire response times are reduced. That would have been right that would come into the out moment. And what? And if you had done the eagle project as an outcome, you know, an outcome based thing that was specifically the kinds of things that you would have wanted to look at. Now that was response time reduced, you know, i don’t know anything is dramatic, is we’re lives saved, but certainly were response times reduced. You could even you could even have done it as looking at things like ups, you know? Did ups have fewer lost deliveries because they were brought to the wrong home? All right, i have thiss factual case up in albany way way. Have to hold on your case. Feeling bad about my eagle project from thirty five years ago. This is tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio we have to take a break after the break. We’ll be tony’s take two for two minutes and then i’ll return with robert penna. Stay with us now. We were going into a break. I’ll have the second half of that interview next week. You could tell you know he didn’t hey didn’t like that. I said i was an eagle scout and then he said he wasn’t an eagle scout. So that’s why, i think that’s ah that’s reflecting now, that’s. Why the bashing of my eagle scout project? That was a good project that i’m i got i got raves from the first aid core and the fire department in town. I remember that was a good project. All right, yes, we go away. I’ll have some live listening love. We got lots of live listeners tony’s take two and then maria simple she’s in the studio news sources. New source. Stay with me for all that they didn’t think the tubing getting ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternative network get in! Dahna duitz are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz durney i’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’ve got live listener love nashville, tennessee i don’t know if you’ve been with us before nashville. Welcome new york, new york and new york, new york couple people from right here in the city and los angeles, california. Welcome live listener love to all of you. We also have someone masked in the us there’s someone else at least one of the person in the u s maybe it’s, the national security agency. I don’t know, i can’t tell, but you’re out there live listener love to all of you moving out to asia. Always lots of loyal listeners in asia, none ing china and guangzhou china ni hao and also happy mid autumn festival hope. Hope you did you save me some moon cake? I would love for you to send me some moon cake, if you will if we’ll make the trip over malaysia, we can’t tell what city maybe it’s kuala lumpur maybe not. But malaysia live listeners love to you. Welcome. And seoul, korea anya haserot will have mohr. Lots of live listener love time for tony’s. Take two. Last week i had a client tell me planned e-giving saved our ass. It’s. Exactly what? They said, and save them from what in four of the past six years planned giving saved them from shortfalls in unrestricted giving unrestricted cash planned giving got them to goal in those four years, including, of course, the recession and that’s, because the vast majority of plan gif ts and you would expect at least seventy five percent sometimes as high as ninety percent of all your planned gift doesn’t matter what kind of mission you have to be bequests and most bequests are unrestricted gif ts so that as you build your program, you gettinto lots of wills, and i’m just talking about will bequests in will’s not any of the other other many types of plant gifts just talking about wills as you get into more and more of those. The fact is that people pass away irrespective of the state of the economy, whether we’re in a recession, whether stock market is high or low, people pass away, and those requests that are in those people’s estates represent a lot of unrestricted cash for you. Not that you khun budget for it that’s unwise. But as your plan giving program grows, there will be revenue from bequests each year. And i say a lot more about that. On my blogged at tony martignetti dot com. Also going to be at bebe con on september thirtieth, this’s the blackbaud conference it’s at the gaylord convention center in maryland. And we’re running some some contests while i’m there. I’m going to be there interviewing for this show, doing about fifteen or so interviews. And i’ll be on stage on the exhibit floor, but they set up stage for for metoo podcast from and the contests are that i’m giving away two hours of consulting teo either people who were at the show or who are on twitter that day so you can tweet live that day, september thirtieth, and you have a chance to win or if you’re at bebe con, you can you can enter to win and there’s more about all of that on my block. Also a tony martignetti dot com there’s, a post devoted to be become twenty thirteen that’s coming up on the thirtieth of september and that is tony’s take two for friday, twentieth of september thirty seventh show of the year maria simple she’s in the studio today she’s the prospect find her you know, her he’s, a trainer and speaker on prospect research fact she spoke today we’re going to talk a little about that. Her website is the prospect finder dot com her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now she’s our doi end of dirt, cheap and free you could follow maria on twitter at maria simple welcome to the studio. Maria. Hey, tony. Good to see you in person. I know it’s. A pleasure, it’s a it’s. A bigger pleasure than usual to have you here. Have you hear? Face-to-face you did a little speaking gig today. What was that in the city? Ah, yes. So wilmington trust hosted some of their non-profit clients and colleagues and had an opportunity teo, to do a topic on prospecting on a shoestring budget. So it was a lot of fun as our die. And you’re the perfect person for that. What was what were what was a question? That you got any common questions or ah one that you hear a lot that you want to share? Probably one of the common questions was just sort of related to, you know, what are the resource is that i typically would go to and is it worth paying for? The resource is, you know, people always want to know is always good to just use the free resource is or sometimes should we be paying for them? So and i had a chance to to talk about the new foundation center’s project that we have, which we’re talking about today, so that was good that we were able, teo dovetail that in you and i have talked a lot about free resource is, of course, as i said, you know, a couple times you are doing end of dirt cheap and free. Um, do you think you’re do you think you’re really hindering your program if you’re only relying on free resource is well, what i think you’re doing is you’re probably spending a lot more time staff time on trying to hit a number of different research resource is, whereas ah lot of the fee based resource is will compile a bunch of things under one and so on what you’re what you’re not spending on resource is you probably are expending on staff time unless you have a volunteer doing your research. Ok, ok, go let’s, talk about our some of new sources that with news sources that we talked about and then well, later on, we’ll get to the new source. The foundation center thing. Yeah. You have advice about newspapers? Yeah. So of course, one of the things that you want to be able to do is sort of keep on top of what’s going on in your local economy what the local business owners air doing, for example, who the movers and shakers are. And then certainly, as you’re doing reactive research, that means you have a name of somebody you’re looking to research. One of the sources that you definitely want to check out is news sources. So i generally will try and check out newsreel ated to where they live a cz their primary residents. But if they’re snowbirds, so for example, if you have somebody from the northeast and they spend their winters in palm beach, eso you would want to be able to check out well, what are they doing? Philanthropic lee there. Okay, cool. So you know where they’re where they’re located in you? Then you look for local news sources. You just searched the newspapers in the vicinity. Is that well? That that’s. Definitely one way of doing it. I love using, as you know, libraries. And, you know, i’m a huge proponent of our library systems. And so, in fact, if you did have that snowbird down in palm beach, i you can go to the palm beach county library. And they have magazines and newspapers that you, khun research online for free. So they will include the local re newspapers for palm beach area. And even if you’re not a cardholder, they will give you a temporary pass. A research passed to be able to research their sources. So it’s fantastic. You can get that online. Yeah. Get the free research past online and be anywhere in the country. I believe so. Yes. So you just there’s. Ah, button. You click and you just request it. And so it would give you access to those newspapers if that’s indeed where your prospect was living for temporarily do you have ah, earl for since ah, approaching winter and palm beach is a popular snowbird place. Yeah, well, it’s, palm beach county, p, b, c library dot or ge is thie site. You want to go to bbc library dot or ge? Okay, you could put that on facebook page for sure. Okay. Um, okay, interesting. So, what is the advantage to going to the library? Is it because they they’re aggregating versus trying to find the sources on your own? So going through a library resource is going to mean you’re not going to pay for the full article. So very often, if you go directly to a news source, what they’ll allow you to do in a lot of cases is to do the search to come up with a set of list of search results, but then you won’t be able to see the full article without paying for it. Whereas if you go through the portal of a library, you typically will be standing are doi in-kind now it zoya i said, like, five times already today, we’re not even family it’s, very smiths. Incredible. Well, you know, your shoe string budget, right? So you’ve got to be able teo to figure out a way to access news sources and not paying arm and a leg for them. Go through the library so you don’t pay for your feet. Content? Excellent. I’m definitely include that we i post takeaways now on facebook page on dh. That will definitely be one of the one. The bullets. Excellent one. Is there something else you want to add about this? No. Okay. Okay. Um, now, are there fee based places that you can find local news sources? Yeah. I mean, there are and i would say for for the most part, though, non-profits that are doing research on more localized basis unless you’re really looking to get into international research, right? Sew something like it used to be called dow jones interactive. I can’t remember what they switched teo, but that news source, for example, will be able to scan newspapers worldwide. And in case you do have, i could see you in more of a college or university setting where they may have alum living all over the world, and they have to be able to see what’s going on in those sources. But i think for the for the average, your audience, the other ninety five percent who might be more local you khun definitely do that. Of course, you’re your listeners who are overseas would want to take advantage of some of that, so you can definitely google news resource is fee based news resource is, and you’ll come up with some alternatives to looking on a paid basis. Okay, now we have just about a minute before we go away for a couple minutes. This presumes that you confined addresses on people or at least if not an address a locale. Teo, how do you how do you find those locales? What do you get that well in? In a lot of cases, when i’m doing my research, for example, i will be told that somebody might have a second home somewhere else. So during the course of my research, i know to be looking for that piece of information. S oh, if i know they have a secondary piece of property in another state, i’m always trying to find out what the news sources are and checking out what they might be doing. Philanthropic lee. Sometimes they’re participating in golf tournaments, galas and so forth, so it’s, kind of good to know what they’re supporting when they are doing their their snow birding, right, okay, because you can help find the vicinity. All right, we’re gonna have a lot more on this on dove course. Also, maria’s, sixty second style. Stop at the very end, so hang with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Buy-in are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping countries. People be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. Time. Montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Dahna with the prospect finder maria simple, and we’re talking about news sources, and then we’re going to get to a new source shortly. Maria, this part of the value of this is if you find that someone works in a place that’s different than where they’re living, right, so then you’d want to be doing this local local news search in both places. Yeah, i think that would be very valuable, you know, especially when you’re talking about metropolitan areas where you’ve got people commuting on hour or more to get to work. S o they might be doing some philanthropic efforts in the locale where they work as opposed to where they live because they well, the commute is so long, so yeah, absolutely. The’s online research access cards that you can you can sometimes get. Do they have ah, limit to how long is that for a day pass? Or how does that work? Well, ahh, yeah. I mean, they all have different rules around them, so you would definitely check out with the individual library. But for the new sources that i typically will be searching and and that search is actually a lot of newspapers across the country i go through my local county library, i have my county library card. It has a bar code on the back of the card, and that barcode is what allows me the access to being able to search things like a pro quest, which is a new stand that’s available online and another one news bank, which is available online. So again there it’s it’s, searching across multiple newspapers across the country, but that’s that’s mostly in a situation where i i i’m not entirely sure where people might be residing elsewhere, but if i know where they are, then i will definitely go straight to that newspaper of the town where they’re spending other time. And you and i have talked about this before the value of having a local library card like you’re talking about. You use your local library? Absolutely. It gives you access. Yeah. You’re saying so? Yeah. Lots of sites that yeah, and you don’t even need to be, you know, on site at the library to do the research. You anywhere. You have an internet connection, you can be doing the research. So that may be money. Well spent just on a local library card. Knowing that you could get ah, access. Yeah, well, if it’s your local library card, you won’t have to spend any money at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so long stuff had one. But if you if you find that your your local or county library does not have a good card, another source to think about is your alma mater. Because sometimes your universities and colleges will allow you access. Teo to resource is online. And another alternative is you can buy a library card. Ah, if you if you live outside that county or region, some libraries will allow that to happen. So in the fees range hundred to two hundred dollars. Okay. And if and if it’s a place that’s. Ah, popular spot for your your prospects. That may be money well spent. Absolutely. Local library. Yeah. Excellent tip about, um, it’s. Amazing about your alma mater. Another way, another backdoor way. Teo, get library access. Yeah, right. Cool. All right, let’s, move to the foundation center. They have something called fbo. They’re calling fto free foundation directory online on dh. You checked it out for us? Yeah, i did. So, of course. Staying with our sort of library theme, right? So foundation center, very specific library on doing donorsearch research on dh, whether you’re doing the search at the foundation centers library in manhattan or and any of their cooperating collections, you may be aware that they have fto foundation directory online, which is a fee based resource that they make available for free through the library’s. However, what they have now done is they have basically taken a portion of that data base and made it available, or certain search functionalities across the board available for free through a link on their website. So you don’t even have to be in one of the co operating collections. Okay, excellent. And what does it? What does it offer this this limited free service, right? So i did. I definitely found, you know, some some pros and cons. So what do you want? First, the pros of the calls start with the positive. Okay? Absolutely. Okay, pro it’s free, right? So i have to promote that for sure. Andi, i think i find that it was good for both reactive and proactive research. And we’ve talked about that before. Reactive. You’ve got the name of a prospect? Proactive, you’re just in there trying to find some new prospects. I loved the fact that you had access to researching the entire nine nineties. The text of irs nine nine text searchable its search text of the nineties is searchable, right? Do you know if guidestar they’re popular nine ninety site, do they do they have that feature? I think they might have that feature as well, but this is the first time that i’m seeing foundation center making that available for free. That’s, right? Well, oh, yeah, i don’t know if guides to write, i may be confusing. I don’t know if guide star has nine nineties of foundations yeah, they d’oh, d’oh, d’oh, andi. Also, what you can do is you’re getting a glimpse of the fto product, right? So you’re getting a glimpse says to because you’ll get a certain amount of data that you can get for free and then as soon as you go to try and do a little bit more, it’ll say, well, you need to be a subscriber, so at least it gets you in the mode of understanding how to use the tool and do the research and then and then, you know, you could decide either subscribe on a monthly basis and at what? They have various levels of subscription, or go to the local cooperating collection and used their source there. And then you can use it for free. Absolutely. Latto one of cooperating court. Cooperating collections. Yeah. So those were the real pros that i found let’s. Give the what’s the girl for this. Ok, so the girl for this is fbo dot foundation, center, dot or ge? Okay, i do love thee, even even if it’s even if it’s available elsewhere. I just i love that keyword search of nine nineties. Yeah, it’s. Really, really cool, eh? So what i did was i did a little test of the keyword search. First of all, just like you would be doing a keyword search on google if you had a phrase you want to make sure that you’re putting quotation marks around anything that’s a phrase, right? So i was testing it for the phrase foster care i was trying to see. Well, who are the funders that might come up funding foster care and you can also narrow it down by st. Right? So i did a search for who was funding foster care in new york and came up with a bunch of foundation hits, so then i thought, well, let me see if this really worked. So i went into a few of the nine nineties, and i searched for the word foster inside of thie nine ninety and lo and behold, there it wass and it appeared as one of the grants that they had made was for funding foster care. Excellent. Excellent. Now, if you don’t use those quotes, you might end up with it’s on foster brooks. So the comedian who used to play a drunk, actually what i what what had happened was i did the search without putting the quotes first, and i got a ton of hits and i couldn’t believe it and i thought, something’s wrong here what had happened was they picked up on embedded in the nine nineties companies that were foundations that were invested in foster wheeler as a company. Ok, so i thought, okay, so i’ve got to refine it further and once i re ran the search with foster care in quotes, then i got better hits. Excellent love this love the keyword search. Okay, yeah, that was great anymore. You want to say positive before we get to the what you saw some problems with? Um, no. Go ahead. Okay, good. What do you have on the downside? So, on the downside, you know, some fields are definitely fi base to research. And i think the biggest downside of all was that you could not export the results so you could not come up with that list of foundation hits and and download them to a spreadsheet to have something that might be very share a bowl with other staff for board members before you decided to do this research and behind the food that’s behind the export. So you have to take notes? Yeah. Yeah. You have to take notes, or yeah, you could construct the spreadsheet yourself. I’m sure, but okay. I just kind of found that that might be a con, but as i said, you know, you can definitely go on a monthly subscription or use it at the cooperating collection. Okay. That the only downsides? Yeah. I found more pros and cons. Actual. Excellent. All right, cool. I was like, i love the foundation. Center for people here in new york. It’s it’s right on the lower fifth of it, i think it’s at sixteenth street and at all the cooperating collections. Not only is it free to use, but they you are very generous with showing you teaching you how to use it. The librarians are there and they will spend as much time as it takes. And it really doesn’t take much because it’s a pretty simple system i ous i recall teo teo use but the librarians are very generous with their help. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, cool. Let’s. See we we’re going. We’re going toe, i guess. Wrap up. I asked er i asked you for a sixty second style stop. What do you s o? We’re opening this too. You know things like travel, leisure, food, what’s your just sixty seconds what’s your what’s, your what’s, your style stuff. So i decided to pick the topic of travel for and there’s a fabulous website and mobile app called hop stop dot com and i had to use it today. As a matter of fact, i need to figure out how to get from my location in midtown to your studio here and it told me exactly which subways i had to take to get here. Is it only for public transportation hub? Stop no, you can. You can select to be told how to walk to a location, how taxi and approximately what the taxi might cost. So you you’ve got a lot of different options that you can play around with and yeah, it’s pretty cool. I see people using hop stop dot com. My objection is that when they’re new york, if you live in new york, if you live in new york, i don’t think you should be using hop. Stop. I think that’s cheating. I think you’re supposed to use the other tools that are more difficult. It’s just it’s a part of living in new york. You’re supposed to do it the hard way, not the hop stop where you’re supposed to get the apse that the empty a the metropolitan transit authority has, you know, they use a map that from the subway token from the token booth, if you have to go paper, i just object to residents using hop stop. But if you’re visiting someplace hop stop is really cool. Perfect. We got some last minute live listener look that maura liberation last minute live listener love japan! I never want to leave you out tokyo, sugisaki, yokohama sutjipto or sugito? I’m not sure konichiwa to our japanese live listeners where’s, north carolina today in the u s didn’t north carolina and check in miree simple, thank you very much for coming to the studio. Thanks for having me always it’s a special pleasure today, as i said, you can find maria on twitter at maria simple and you’ll find her blawg her sight at the prospect finder dot com next week. I have part two of the non-profit outcomes toolbox, no more berating my eagle scout project, but we do mention easy bake ovens, so you wantto you want to listen for that? Remember easy bake ovens. I’m going way back like foster brooks references from thirty years ago, you got to keep up. Also, amy sample ward is back, our social media contributor and the ceo of non-profit technology network has tips for optimizing your profiles to boost your search results and stay consistent with your mission, and she will have a sixty second style stop. I’m interested in what you think about that little nufer teacher, do you have a sixty second style stop? I’ll i’ll share yours if you got one you want to use, you hit me on facebook or or twitter or even on my block does contact page. Let me know what you think. I’ll let you know if you have one you want to share over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities, the other ninety five percent listen each week you know how to reach me. If you want to talk about sponsoring the show and we have a sponsor starting in october, be welcoming them. Our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam legal, which is our line producer, shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules our music. Listen to that bye, scott stein. I hope you’ll be with me next friday one to two p m eastern. I’ll be here in the studio. I hope you will be listening. Live one, two, two eastern at talking alternative dot com e-giving didn’t think that shooting the good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Cubine are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday said. Known eastern time to learn timpson. 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This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. 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