462: Scale Up & Sustain – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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This week: 

Scale Up & Sustain
It’s a question I hear often from nonprofit leaders: “How does my organization get to the next level?” Kathleen Kelly Janus’s research leads her to the answers and she shares them with you. Her book is “Social Startup Success.” (Originally aired 12/8/17)

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

449: Leadership & The Power Of Failure – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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This week: 

Leadership
Nikki Henry wants leaders to communicate effectively, set clear expectations, break down barriers, embrace DEI, and more. She’s CEO of Ladies Leading Ladies and she spills it all.

The Power Of Failure
Failures are as powerful as success stories to rally folks around your cause. Whitney Raver encourages you to embrace your bungles and botches – and share them with your communities. She’s chief development strategist at What’s The Word. 

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, the Video guide for non-profit marketing, which is the definitive guide. I’m in it, they quoted me. Ah, and it’s a very astute, articulate on accurate quote. They got it right, Um, in all its students and articulateness, this guide is from type Ito T y p i t o type a type edo dot com. They’re the canvas of video. The guide includes the strategic like acquisition, engagement, stewardship and tactical, like lower thirds and captioning and text animation. You’ll find this thing that I’m in at t y p i t o dot com and I thank them for including me and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of Dalek. Oh, several ism if you hit me with the heady idea that you missed today’s show leadership. Nikki Henry wants leaders to communicate effectively set clear expectations, break down barriers embrace D I and more. She’s CEO of ladies leading ladies, and she spills it all. Then the power of failure failures are as powerful as success stories to rally folks around your cause, Whitney Raver encourages you to embrace your bungles and Boches and share them with your communities. She’s chief development strategist at What’s the Word on Tony Steak, too? Show number 450 Responsive by Wagner C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software, Denali, fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communication, Shin’s PR and content. For non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here’s Nicky Henry and leadership. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show Nikki Henry. She is the founder and CEO of Ladies Leading Ladies, a company dedicated to helping women and non binary people grow as supportive leaders. She’s a passionate dork. She’s at ladies underscore leading underscore, and the company is at ladies leading ladies dot com. Welcome to non-profit radio. Nikki Henry. Thank you so much, Tony. My pleasure. What’s a passionate dork? So I call myself a dork because I am super, uh, nerdy in the way that I want to make sure that data and research backs up what I am teaching with leadership. As I was growing as a leader, I always went back to the data and research and my undergrads in psychology. So I just have that nerdy numbers data research part of me. But I’m super passionate, and I I have worked in non-profits for the last decade because I care about families, and I care about our communities. Okay. Uh, it’s fair. Of course. You know, that was that. I didn’t label you that. That’s Ah, that’s your idea, That is, um So we were supposed to connect that? Ah, 1990 sea. And then you were so passionate about helping your audience on. They wanted so much of you afterwards that you couldn’t make it to the recordings boost on time. And so now so here we are, many months later, but I’m glad it worked. Doubt metoo piela very. For a while, I was a little I was a little noncommunicative. You e mailed. And then I said Okay, hold on. I’ll get I’ll get to you when you know when I have a breaking schedule. So I don’t know. I hope that, uh see, I like Esso I was not reaching out. Um, I like to lead by fear and intimidation. Um uh, condescension. You, no doubt. So that’s my style. That’s right. That’s why that’s why I wasn’t getting back to you. I mean, we could have done this the first week after ntcdinosaur. I wanted to exercise my leadership in my, uh, my white male privilege and authority. Oh, my goodness. Just so fun. Yeah. So I feel like that’s my leadership style. Is that is that is that in line with what you’re doing at the lady’s leading ladies? You know, I feel like you just did my intro and the opposite. Yeah. Okay, so my my method is the antithesis of yours. I would say so. All right. I don’t know. Fear and doubt and loathing and condescension. They seem to work well for me, but all right way don’t have to go down that way. Um, So you want Thio? Well, tell me what leading ladies leading ladies is about. Yeah. So this company really came out of my own experience in the workplace. And like I said, I spent about 10 years in non-profits working in different leadership roles, and I noticed a couple of things. One, especially in the nonprofit world, were very much trial by fire. I got thrown in, um, you know, as a first time leader and had to figure it out. So there was a lot of that imposter syndrome going on with me. A lot of the scared that people are gonna find out. I don’t know what the heck I’m doing. Um and so I just dove into teaching myself. So I definitely saw that piece. I saw that lack and I saw that white space, especially with our non-profits on properly training and investing in our leaders so that we conserve our community’s best. And the second thing I saw is one of the programs that I worked with. We scaled rapidly over a five year period. We went from four full time employees to 55 during that time that I was there. And so we had a ton going on. And what I noticed was specifically the women that I worked with who were incredibly hard working so intelligent, um, and had been with me from the get go, weren’t throwing their hat in the ring for those promotions. And for those management opportunities. And so I got to really chat with them and dig in. But I know this isn’t a unique problem. This is something that we’re facing in our workplaces where we have a lack of representation of really strong, amazing women in those leadership roles. Okay. And you want to turn that around Exactly. Okay. Uh, so you’re some of your advice is around effective communications for women. So what are what are what are women not getting right that they could be doing better around communications And And how do we sex it? You know what’s fun s o with the with the business. I really have a passion around bringing women and non binary people into representation and leadership. But what I teach is not gender specific. And what I actually found, the more that I dug into research and data, you know, from Gallup in different areas is that if we’re gonna go with gender stereotypes, women are actually better prepared to be the most effective leaders. Based on what the data is showing us, an effective leader looks like. And what that means is now we need coaches. We don’t need managers. We need. People who are focusing on relationships are focusing on development are focusing on, um, that communication, bringing together multiple perspectives and really creating a team versus just the top down, you know, crack the whip type of accountability that we may have had in the past and may still have in many workplaces. So it’s really about that communication and getting to know your people one on one as human beings and how you can uniquely motivate them to be the most successful team member that they could be. Okay, s o teamwork. Collaborative. You know, people, uh, we just have, like, a minute and 1/2 or so before before our break. What? How come we, uh s So how can we break down the barriers that exist between leader and following, You know, whatever Employer, employee advisor, supervisor worker. I mean, is it as simple as just like social events o r. Go deeper? I think it’s deeper, and I think it’s two main things. I think that it’s training and rewarding our leadership for being those supportive leaders or as burn a Brown says a daring leader. Um and then the second piece is really focusing on diversity equity and inclusion. I know you were speaking about that on a previous podcast where we really have to dive into our own identity is the identities of those that were working with and be able to really embrace the assets that come along with that diversity and an inclusive workplace. Yeah. Yeah, we did. We get ah, a couple of d I topics and 19 ntc and we talked about it before that. Um right. Why don’t we, uh, take our break right now? Pursuant. They’ve got a podcast as well, and there’s there’s is go beyond. It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin, who’ve been a guest on non-profit radio a couple times. Ah, a couple of recent episodes of go beyond our Self Care for Leaders and four digital trends. For 2019 you will find the podcast Go beyond at pursuing dot com slash Resource is now let’s go back. Thio. Nikki Henry. Okay. Thank you for that indulgence, Nikki. Henry. Absolutely. Go take care of our our sponsors. Um all right. Um So how do we so I’d like to get into some some, you know. How do you do it? Not just not just not just what to do, but but how So how can How can an effective leader get to know they’re there? There, folks better abila more, more personally. You know, as you were saying, Yeah, So at 19 NTC, um, I was going through this with our group there and some of the three top things that I really focus on our your communication. So both in meetings and facilitating those meetings, setting clear goals and just motivating and engaging your team. So one of the things that I really push, um, and have seen work in my own work but also in others is that our leaders take time to sit down one on one on a weekly basis with each of their direct reports. And when I say that people screeched to a halt because nobody needs more mean eight meetings, nobody wants to be stuck in meetings more than they already are. Right? So it’s really about how to make those meetings productive. Um, And how Thio, I understand that making that investment of time these weekly one on ones or 25 30 minutes make that investment of time is actually going to give you more time on the return because you’re having less of people knocking on your door and saying Hey, do you have a minute? Hey, can I ask you a question? Hate kanai This on the same page? You’re aligning at least weekly. Nobody. Converium off course too far if you’re really talking on a weekly basis and you work into that weekly conversation a human element as well. So asking people about their Weiqing of weekend asking people about their family and making sure that there is that human element in it as well as we move forward. Okay, this is related to something I just read on Seth Gordon’s Blawg. Okay, basically, he was talking about slack. You know that we don’t have to be so tightly, um timed and so efficient in the in the short term that in the long term we’re going to suffer. He uses the analogy of airplanes the way you know it. Sze time down to the minute. And if there’s a storm, you know when every plane is being utilized in the short time in the immediate term there’s a storm or a breakdown of an aircraft, there’s no slack built in. So the whole system cascades and can collapse. If there’s a storm in L. A or New York or Chicago Santa, um, the whole country can come to a halt aircraft. So, um, you know, So his recommendation is, you know, don’t be so short term focused and build in some what you might consider to be inefficiency in the short term. But in the long term, it’s gonna be it’s gonna give you rewards. That sounds like you’re saying, have these weekly 30 minute meetings. Um, what you’re gonna know they’re gonna cause you a little tightness in, but in the long run, you’ll get you’ll get Amore, I guess Committed employees who you get to know someone who’s gonna be more likely to come to you with a problem instead of quit when there’s a problem. Exactly. Take a week of Lee sick leave and then quit while there’s reportedly sick. They’re out looking for you. Actually had an interview. Yeah. Yeah, they’re gonna talk to you and you’ll develop amore more committed. More, more collaborative employees. Exactly. All right. All right. So 30 minutes, 30 minute, one on ones. You okay? What What else do you like to see so and a lot of these, they might sound like we’re going back to the basics, right? But another latto always. That’s not always, but that’s not always bad. Yes, we could use a more basic. So I think it’s important because we might know these things. But practicing them is a whole different thing. So I also talk about smart girls, which again people kind of roll their eyes because I asked everyone in the room How many of you have heard of smart goals? Almost everyone raises their hands, right? And then I asked people, How many of you are utilizing that when you give out, you know, a task list or goals to your team members? Crickets? Very rarely are people actually looking at. Okay, we’re talking about what our priorities are for the weak. I’m, you know, helping someone to set those priorities. But I didn’t take the extra 30 seconds, one minute, two minutes to go through and make sure that it was specific that we know how we’re measuring success. But it’s actually achievable that it’s relevant to what we’re working on the big picture. So we’re not just doing busywork and that there’s a deadline that were clear. And if we actually took those act extra 30 seconds to two minutes to go through that with things that were asking of our team, we would have such a more efficient workplace. But also we would have such a better relationship because our expectations are a lie. And we know what’s being asked of us. We have clear expectations. And also, as a leader, you’re going to get a project or a product that is actually what you asked for versus that person trying to read your mind and ending up. You get something and you say, What the heck is? This is not what I asked for it all. And you know okay, yeah, clear expectations, any anything. So let’s ah, shift a little bit from Well, they’re all related. But expect eight expectations setting no more advice around making that clear for people. Yes, I think that you know, those two things really tied together. So the smart girls on the one on ones because you want to be talking early often, Um, and especially as we are in Thio, a millennial generation that’s taking you know, is the largest part of our work force. You’re gonna see the same with Jen’s e J. Expect early and often immediate feedback. And so that’s going to increase that relationship. Increase that communication and decrease the times that you’re really going to end up with someone not understanding their expectations and veering off course so early and often regular feedback, both good and bad. Eso really balancing those? The other thing that I will say, especially because you’re putting these extra meetings on um on the calendar, is don’t hold meetings that could have been an email, so you’re already taken the time to sit down one on one. Don’t hold the weekly staff meeting or the weekly department meeting. If you’ve got nothing to say. If you’ve got no nothing that needs to be brainstorm or worked out as a team, if it’s just an update to policy, it’s a memo. It’s a schedule whole thing. Shoot it in an email, don’t add more time to meetings because that’s why people really, really dread them is because they’re just sitting in something that they could have read in an email in five minutes. Okay, you’re, uh go, Just go on back to the first point you made about being honest. You know it, Sze totally unfair to an employee Thio to find out at the annual or the semi annual performance review that you know there’s a problem with something exactly. And it’s been festering for months. For months or something, you never give the person a chance. Toe improve. Now you’re now it’s formal. Now it’s written now. Now they feel like they’ve been shat on Andi and they got like, a blind sided races versus having a conversation with him in one of the 30 minute one on one meetings. You know, there’s a problem. This is not. This is not the way we I want this done or you’re not meeting expectations or whatever the heck it is from from the hours you keep to the attire to the to the smelly food you do in the kitchen. You know, whatever it is, you’ve got to tell people and give them a chance to improve. Absolutely. And it’s something that leaders really struggle with, right? There’s a lot of the times were promoted into leadership positions because of the good job that we did in our last position, not because we particularly have leadership skills or or those types of things. It’s a reward for doing a good job. And so that means that we get a lot of leaders who haven’t had any leadership training. I think the last study that I looked at, over 45% of current leaders and managers have had no leadership or management training at all. We treat it as if it’s a talent or a natural ability, where, as it’s a skill just like learning, excel or learning a new database, Um and so a lot of people are conflict avoidance. And so they have a hard time having those easy at the beginning conversations about you know, Hey, you’re wearing too much perfume and it’s given so and so a headache. You know, something silly like that. They don’t have that up front, and then it turns into like what you’re saying. They’re being blindsided in a formal evaluation instead of just having a quick conversation. So building those relationships and trust and respect on a weekly basis also helps the leader to be more comfortable to bring those things about with with their employees and with their team members. But it’s also something that has to be practiced, and it has to be rewarded in the workplace as well for our leaders to be assertive and thio Thio knit problems in the bud and have those open and frank conversations. If someone says they don’t have enough time to do 30 minute meetings with everyone that reports to them, does that mean they have too many direct reports? So I was just going to say I have one of two answers. Either you are overseeing too many people directly, Um, or you are You don’t have any time because your people are constantly interrupting you. So there’s, you know, to kind of pieces to that. So if you’re generally speaking, if you are overseeing more than 10 people directly meaning there is no level of, you know someone in between, there’s not another person. They can go to. A lot of the time CEOs think. Well, I oversee the entire company. No, no, no. Just your direct reports. Um, if you’re overseeing more than 10 then probably you’re not able to give them the time that they need to be a coach versus just being a manager, and that is going to hold back your employee engagement, which then holds back the success of your teams in the success of your organization. So that is one thing. But the other piece is people think that they don’t have time. Well, if you took intentional time with your team, you would see within a month. If you really committed to this, you would see a huge amount of time saved because you were dealing with it on the front end, versus being reactive. Okay. Okay, Cool. Um, how about some motivation, huh? You touched on little Bit’s talk about explicitly motive motivating the folks who work for you. Yeah. So each of your each of your employees is a unique human being there in the work that they do for unique reasons. So getting to know them in those weekly meetings and elsewhere to understand why the they do the work they do is gonna be incredibly helpful to you as a leader, because then you can tap that’s specific reason to help motivate them. But more generally, I think there are a couple of things that we can do to motivate and create an engaging work environment as well. I think one thing is encouraging friendships at work. So not being the boss that walks into the room and then everyone’s a she because you’re not supposed to be talking, um, so allowing that also creating opportunities for people tohave lunches together to get together off the clock toe, you know, feel like they can actually create, um, these relationships that help them to be more resilient in the workplace. And I think also one huge piece of motivation that I think is often missed is talking to people about their long term development. And I talk a lot about doing that through what I call stay interviews and not just me. Everybody calls him stay interviews, Um, but a stay interview is a play on an exit interview. We get all of this really robust, amazing information when people walk out the door. Well, why don’t we ask those questions once or twice a year or once 1/4 and get that really important information? While we still have the talent, Let’s keep the town. Let’s retain them so deeper into their development in their long term career planning. So asking questions like what is it that troubles you here. What would you do differently like that? Exactly? Yeah. Taking exactly those exit interview questions and turning them into stay interview. So why do you work here? What do you love most about your job? What would you change if you had a magic wand and have that authority to do? So? What are some benefits that would make a difference to you wanting to stick around in this job? You know, things like that. Okay, Uh, now on the friend you know, that sort of developing the friendship side. I’ve had people say that they resent some of that. Why did they have to be friends with co workers? They’re they’re happy to have them. His coworkers. Why do they have to take them on his friends? I you know, and I totally get that. And I hear that as well from folks. And here’s the reason why, as a manager or a leader, you should push this because through research and study specifically through Gallup, they have shown that those who have a best friend at work are significantly more engaged and therefore significantly more productive at work. And when you think about it just, you know, anecdotally. Of course, If I got to show up every day and work with my best friend, I’m probably gonna be more happy to be there more eager to show up. You know, a happier human being and knowing that I have someone that I trust that I convinced to all of those things having that resiliency within the workplace is is fantastic. Not everyone’s gonna do it. Not everyone is going to be that engaged employees. They’re gonna be that there are going to be the types that one o’clock and clock out, go home, not talk about their personal life. Keep a very compartmentalized life. But I will say is the generations go on. That’s less and less because people don’t see the clear delineation between their work-life in their home life. Especially with technology. Yeah, especially right. Right. That’s that has changed. So much of our work-life is interwoven. In-kind personal. Okay, um, any, uh, any, like, special or, uh, types of events that you like to see or something fun that maybe people haven’t thought of it. We could all go out for drinks. You know, maybe it’s a bowling night, right? pizza on Fridays. You got something something special beyond the humdrum stuff that I just named. Sure, I think what’s important is to actually give your employees ownership over this. So what I’ve done in some of my past work places is to create. And they called themselves the fund committee. Um, but to create that committee and actually allow the employees to decide what they want to do with that time and if you can throw a little budget at it Wonderful. But also again coming from non-profit. Ah, one of the places that I worked with. We just did not have the budget for that. You know, we’re very Grant restricted and and we weren’t gonna get that that fund money. So what we decided to do instead is we worked with our controller, and we all decided to deduct $2 each paycheck to go into a fund committee fund because we wanted to get to know each other better. We wanted to have teamed building on, and it’s completely optional. And it’s a knot of, you know, we don’t send out the list to say, Hey, so and so is not in the fun committee. Um but, you know, allow that and then allow them to decide what it looks like with your approval to make sure that you’re not having an HR nightmare or you’re not, You know, misusing funds or anything like that. But let them have ownership. Let them decide, Let them tell you. Okay, okay. To try to ah, tryto resuscitate myself or laser tag. Laser tag. Could you do that? That’s not humdrum. I lovely attack. Yeah, Yeah. Um uh, Anything else you want to say about motivation? You know, I I think what’s important And this is something that I think we’re actually relatively good at in the nonprofit world, but is important to come back to We have to come back to our mission and we have to come back to our why on a regular basis. It’s really easy when we air show stressed with multiple grants and funding streams. And what not to get caught up in the numbers and your team? What they hear when they just hear numbers, numbers, numbers is that you’ve lost touch with the client. You’ve lost touch with the families. You’ve lost touch with the communities that we serve. So making sure that you’re bringing yourself back, but also as a team that you’re spending time to really reflect on how you are serving your miss mission, which is most of the reason why. Probably your team works for you right now. Bring it back to the mission. Yes. Frequent, I think. Frequent visits to the mission. Yeah, certainly in terms of new programs or new ideas that are bubbling because this is going to be a collaborative, contributing team, and they’re gonna have ideas, you know? Do they? That may be a great idea, but does it work within what were charged to do? Okay. All right. So we’re talking about a lot about meetings. I’m guessing you have some tips on running effective meetings. Efficient, productive. Happy meetings. Yes. Okay, let’s start with something that’s old friends of mine or the technology. Like the technology rules for meetings our phones allowed. Do you need Oh, my gosh. We only have two minutes left. Okay, uh, let’s do justice to tech rules for meetings. Okay? So I actually, I’m a millennial, so I am guilty of having all of my technology in the room when I’m doing meetings, but at the end of the day, as I’ve worked with people from different generations and different values as well. It doesn’t even have to be a generational thing. Those who do not allow technology in the meeting room, they have been much more productive. And it pains me as a millennial to say that, but it is absolutely true. Leave your laptop back there, leave your phone in your office because you’re their toe work together. And everyone in your meeting should have a reason that they’re there. They should be someone who is contributing to the meeting. Otherwise, they shouldn’t be invited, Um, or made to sit through something. So put the phones away and focus on what you’ve got there and use that collaborative creativity. Okay, Um, now I’ve heard there could be an exception. You know, uh, my my pet is in surgery for my son is in surgery or my dad is in surgery. No. So that could be exceptions for those you know, those kinds of cases, right? I see that. But also that is a weekly, a slippery slope. So here’s what I say. Yes, there are always emergencies, but let someone know for the next hour, they need to call the front office. Then they need to call this phone line. And if there is an actual emergency, your receptionist, your office manager will come in and get you. But if you’re talking about in an emergency, then you pick up that phone every five seconds to check it, and you’re getting out of the flow of that collaboration, okay? And then there’s also the slippery slope, you know? Well, she had her son, but I don’t have children, but I have a cat cats in surgery. My cat is just like a child to me. Exactly. It’s not right. All right. Next to becomes a pet spider than the turtle, you know, gets ridiculous. All right, All right, Nikki. Henry, we gotta leave it there. All right? Thank you, Tony. My pleasure. She’s the founder and CEO of Ladies Leading Ladies. You’ll find her at ladies. Underscore leading underscore and the lady’s leading ladies dot com. It’s time to take a break. Yes, it is. Indeed. Uh, Wagner, C p A’s. They’ve got a free webinar on August 6th. Developing high impact grants. Improve your grants, research and writing. You’ll find it at Wagner cps dot com. Click Resource Is and upcoming events. If you miss it live, then watch the archive. Wagner cps dot com Quick Resource is and recorded events makes perfect sense. Did I mess something up here? Pardon me? Yeah, but, uh, but I didn’t do Wagner. I’m I I did already. No, I didn’t. I think you messed me up. I’m blaming it on Sam because I don’t have any interns. If I have an intern, I’ve blamed the answer we need in turns into show. So I have somebody to blame when there’s a screw up. Like right now, I don’t have one, but it’s certainly not my fault. It couldn’t be so. It’s just that that’s outside the realm of its Not it’s inconceivable, and I don’t mean inconceivable, like uh, like they using conceivable in the Princess Bride. I mean, it is inconceivable, so it must be Sam’s fault. Thea Other thing. The other sponsor that we need to talk about is Cougar Mountain software. Maintaining separate accounts for each fund Ain’t a ning daily expenses reporting to the board, these air or all challenges that you face. That’s why Cougar Mountain created Denali Fund It’s your complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. They have a 60 day free trial. You’ll find that at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two. I’m positive. Sam screwed me up here. I know he did. You left out a break. Okay, the, uh, 450th chauffeur non-profit radio. It’s next. Next week, For God’s sake, It’s July 26th. 2019 is coming up. What’s coming up on the two on the 450th show? Ninth anniversary. Been at this for nine years. 2010 giveaways. We’ve got your coffee giveaways, Of course. Kira is the coffee company that supports coffee growers and workers through providing dental care in the dental care like my voice was crackly. I’m 14. That’s how excited I get back your coffee. They provide dental care because the president of the company, the founder, is a dentist, but they provide dental care to coffee bead growers and workers. As you buy their coffee, you’re supporting that work that we’ve got giveaways from Cure a coffee. I’ll probably go away. Some books from the library, the non-profit Video Library where authors have given me multiple copies of books and What I’ve Got. Live music. Scott Stein, of course. Scott Stein from Brooklyn, who plays are, will play our theme song Complete Cheap Red Wine You Played Completely Through. And then, of course, we’ll count on him to play another song as well. And he’ll be here with this keyboard. Clear Myer. Half our creative producer is gonna be in town. Um, we got all the regular contributors calling in Aimee Semple Ward, Jean Takagi and, of course, Maria Semple. They’ll all call in. We’re welcoming new sponsors. You have heard a couple of shows with them already, but we’re going to formally welcome Cougar Mountain and turn to Communications as our new sponsor. So there’s a shitload going on. Um, and I can say that because my show what I could do, whatever the hell I want. You don’t like it? You’re not gonna stop listening. I mean, well, I mean, you could, but the odds of you doing it just cause I said shit one time so small, it’s it’s inconceivable. So there’s a shitload going on. Be with us for July 26 next week, the 450th show. There’s more on my video out. Could you imagine I could be any more to say on this topic, but watch the video anyway. The video is that tony martignetti dot com and I recorded it in my car. So Zwart watching for that reason since that makes. But let’s do the live listen to love. Ah, there’s a ton of it. Oh, yes, Sam the noisy eh commission. I think that Sam is really screwing up today. You forgot to turn the air conditioner off with my mike. Went live. Now you hear it. See how much quieter is now? That’s because there’s no air conditioning. You heard the buzz. You didn’t know what it was that you really all right. I’m not paying for this week’s show, All right? The live. Listen, love. Where the hell is it? We got listeners in. At least we had. We may have just left in the past three minutes, but we had a few minutes ago. Listeners in Rochester, New York, Tampa, Florida Irving, Texas Washington, D. C. Newburgh New broke New York. I love that straight up, right up the Hudson River. A little bit not upstate New Yorkers. New York City but I don’t live here anymore, so I don’t consider it upstate. Newberg. Welcome. Live love to you. Multiple New York, New York. Um, where else we got? Seoul, South Korea. Loved one soul checks in annual haserot comes a ham Nida Tokyo is with us very loyal. Also very loyal listeners in Tokyo Konnichi wa Beijing Beijing is with us equally loyal Ni hao to our Beijing listeners live love there. Moscow, Russia. That’s a pretty frequent Dublin Ireland. Not sure you’ve been with us before. Um, welcome. I’ve love to Ah, to Dublin. Um And there’s another sheet I left out a whole bunch of sheet coming back here. Alexandria, Virginia. We got listeners live love there, but then going abroad again. Oh, another South Korea yon yon gene or young in South Korea. Also on your haserot Too young Jean Athens, Greece. Welcome. I think that’s new. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Live love to you and Afghanistan. Herat, Afghanistan. I know. That’s first time. I’m so glad you’re with us. Afghanistan. Live love to you and the podcast Pleasantries. They got to go out because it’s over 13,000. You know eso whatever time zone you are, in whatever device you’re listening on pleasantries to you. I’m grateful that you’re with us. I’m grateful the show continues to grow. Uh, I can’t say Week after week grows every single week, but month after month year, the trending is up. So it’s all good. That’s that’s very positive. Pleasantries toe our podcast, listeners all right after that raving ranting. It’s ridiculous. I’m not. Whitney Raver should probably hung up. She was on the phone. If she’s still with us, she’s our next guest on, and I’m pleased to welcome her, Assuming she’s with me. She is the founder and chief development strategist at What’s the word? That’s a growth acceleration agency focused on amplifying non-profit impact. She teaches how to use stories to build trust and raving loyalty among donors. I’m starting to ratchet it down now. I have to have a conversation with Whitney, for God’s sake, get piela linked a woman she and the company are both at What’s the world inc dot com and at oh, what I said, No, that’s not it. It’s what’s the word? Inc dot com? Pardon me, What’s the word? Inc dot com and at what’s the word Inc Welcome to the show. Whitney River. Are you still there? I am here. Who could leave that performance? I can think of a lot of people. My mom for number one and my dad, but they don’t listen to begin with. So that turned them off years ago. Um, welcome. It’s good to have you. You are calling from the Black hills of South Dakota. That’s awesome. That’s way West. You got Mount Rushmore, Badlands National Park. That’s a beautiful part of our country. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I’m 20 minutes away from the most beautiful national mom in the world. And of course, I live smack dab in the middle of four. So I’m surrounded by the most beautiful hills in the world, I think, but at least you might be biased. Like, you know, New Yorkers think it’s the center of the world. But you deserve to think highly of the black hills. So, um what? So you have what are some of the monuments there that you have? So we have not rushmore. That’s about 20 minutes away from my house. We have, like, he said, Badlands. The Black Hills are a national monument, and then we have. My personal favorite is the crazy Horse Memorial has been works there and their longtime friends of his family, and it’s just up. They’re carving a giant mountain buy-in into, you know, putting over the Black Hills. And it’s just incredible to see they’re carving the carving crazy horse into the side of a mountain like Mount Rushmore into hyre Mountain. It’ll be, um, 3 60 It’ll be an entire mountain, not just one face of it. So Mount Rushmore will be will be minimal. Minimize is minimal compared to this 360 degrees. What kind of project? How long does that latto many years? Does that take? Oh, it’s you know, they’re expecting It’ll be done in about 60 years the last time I checked. Plus, they’re also very because they’ve gotten a few new drill and technology has come along. The founder cortex Socolovsky was carrying his jack up the mountain and doing it by hand. It may take 60 years. You cut out a little bit there, but 60 years, you’re incredibly patient in South Dakota, you have to finish that thing in like, 20 minutes. Here in New York, we just start trampling on it or somebody would steal it or Or graffiti it, Uh, maybe 1/2 an hour. Give it. But 60 years. Damn, you have. Um I have a lot of patients I also love. You know, you have that enormous space, South Dakota. And there’s about 800,000 people who live there. Brittney, did you turn me off? Oh, we didn’t turn you off. Okay, You have 100,000 people. I mean, we have We have 8,000,000 in a little island here. Uh, I don’t know what the dimensions are, but it’s got to be, like 1 10/1000 the size of South Dakota. And we have 8,000,000 8 and 1/2 about 9,000,000 or something like that. You have 800,000 in the whole freakin state. That’s incredible. It’s another person. Yeah. Yeah, well, you’re surrounded by a forest. All right. Um, okay, enough geography, but thank you. We never had having had a call from South Dakota. Our guest from South Dakota. So, um, so, uh, this topic of failures little personal for you because you ran for the for the South Dakota House of Representatives. As did it. It didn’t go so Well. Well, yes. No. And we can absolutely talk about way. Are we talking about it right now? What do you mean? We can We are. We’re doing it. Let’s start no more about it than I do so well in that I did not win. Um, I mean, ballots were cast, and I end up going to appear, which, you know, broke my heart. But I did my job. I served three and gave my neighbors a choice. Okay, but what I feel really right was, um, in speeches and to be going in and e-giving a perspective, an opportunity to think of things in a way that they have never Ben exposed to before had just results. And I tell you what, I got dozens of phone calls, and in the days and weeks after that election from people who just said, Gosh, I just wish I had voted for you. What? Why didn’t he? Hey, so if I do it again, it might be a whole new conversation. Okay, but what came out of that, uh, that, uh I had to say that failure, That that lack of success I don’t know. I mean, we could use the word failure. The cell, The second is about failure. Look what came out of that. Would you learn from that failure that informs your your, uh, don’t fear your failure practice really? That people have to be spoken to. You know, I feel like it was closer to my community that the constituents in this district actually trusted. Or after after I had failed and gone back into them and and, you know, um, we’re we’re still in this together. You can still count on me saying that I have had promised Call me email me. Here’s my social media and where no one really did before while I was right, I still get plenty tons of e mails and phone calls all the time. You know, we need a brave voice for this issue. Would you mind keeping us in this capacity? So even though I failed, I think that because I was so open with it and because I was so accepting of it, I really have done a lot more to earn the trust of my community, simply running an offering to take that position. Okay, Awesome. And, uh, we’re gonna go take our first break. And when we come back, that’s a perfect transition. Cause you want, um, you want non-profits toe earn The trust of folks are well, we’ll continue with that. After we take this very short break Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories and help you build support, media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. This is all of what turned to does. They’re at turn hyphen to DOT CEO. I’ve got butt loads, more time for the power of failure and Whitney River Whitney. So what is this trust That, uh, I mean, it’s I think it’s implicit buy-in non-profit relationships, but we want to talk about it explicitly, asking for trust and building trust. How do you feel that sharing your failures helps? Helps that I want nick down the importance of trust non-profits all over staying a decline in donorsearch ship and e-giving, and it’s really it’s their capacity for impact. And one of the reasons for that is because you were then 20% of potential donors trust organization, and there is a wide range of reasons for that. We as non-profits and as impact creators view the world is it could be has to do a better job of not just vacating our vision but bringing people in on that vision. And that requires a more three dimensional story, um, or hope, view of our And that includes sharing her, sharing our failures. Yeah, um, listeners, I know that Whitney is cutting out a little bit. It’s it’s something in the phone. But we’re pretty sure that if even if she calls back, it’s not gonna make a difference of Whitney. I may ask like I’m a repeat. Something that I I think you’ve said or I asked you to repeat something. Okay, because you’re cutting out a little bit. I think it may help, though, if you speak louder. Okay. Okay. Um, all right. So yeah. I mean, this is this is, uh, consistent with what we know about personal relationships, right? I mean, if to build trust with I don’t know, a spouse, a friend, you know, you you share and and just over time, I mean, you don’t want to share the good things that you share. What’s what’s happening in your life, and it’s not all good. And over time that the people you’re sharing with feel that they’ve been brought into your you brought them into your confidence. Great. You pick each other up and buy a shared your failures and kind of throwing your bungles out there. You give your community a chance, your hero. You tend to take it as a non-profit, the place of the hero in the grand story. And if you read Donald Miller Story brand, you know that Really, Um the odd wants to be the hero. And by sharing your failures and giving them a chance t and help you as part of you, you really give them the opportunity to the hero in that story. And that’s one of the ways you you gain trust and and buy-in. Okay, I’m not clear on something. Uh, making someone the hero of the story could flush that abila more sure to be sure to talk. So, as a nonprofit organization, you you tend to be the hero in the grand scheme of your vision. You are connecting and volunteers to your beneficiaries to serve your mission and the role of donor or volunteers can’t sometimes be inadequately highlighted. The people who stand on the sidelines wondering whether or not they should get of their time or their money are there. They’re looking for some reprieve and by giving them an opportunity to serve you first as xero. So to speak, in the story outline of communication, you give them the opportunity to feel like they’re really important to you and therefore to the mission. Okay, so making your donors and volunteers and Central Central to the story. Great. Okay. Okay. Um, have you seen this? Ah, have you seen examples of this? Any stories you can share that you think I’ve been done? Well, certainly. We’ll tell you about the startup that we’re working with right now. It’s high altitude training. And these these books have an incredible mission. It’s a group of elite long distance athletes who have together to show how sustainable living is the road, who meeting our highest human potential. And they they’re promoting sustainable living practices and agriculture and energy, and they’re using their competition to show to build a community around these ideas. Obviously, as an athlete, you can’t show up and take every time every time you raised rape. Yeah, So we have to make sure that our community and we’re building a wide, um, community of donor sponsors, volunteer participants. That community needs to be with us, and you stand that, You know, we may come in 10 but that is not any less important to our mission. We have to be able to show them how every every failure, every pore, placement, every station is an opportunity to refine our actions and refined and learn more about the lifestyle that we’re trying eat and how to become better at it on dhe. How do they do? They or generally are you recommending, you know, like coming out, right? Like asking for trust Or this is just something that you build implicitly. You know, Bo, what’s it? For the most part, I’ll go back to Tiu Thio, you know, shit. Like my marriage, for instance, my husband and I just celebrated 12 years, and, um, when we when we first started dating, I adamantly against marriage or any, you know, major commitment. Because I didn’t have that kind of trust. And I think a lot of people can relate to that over time. You, you you you work other, you fail together, you grow together and you realize that we’re We’re in this together. You’re important. I’m important. We have to come together to to serve the school. Did you? Yeah. It does make sense. Um, you start by by by sharing. You start by moving it. Build enough of a background you do You turn to them and ask them. Trust me. Don’t need volunteer. Give speak. But in order to make that request valid, you want to spend your time building that relationship and half of half of it is testing. The other half is failure. Yeah, well, it doesn’t have to be 50 50. I mean, you could we could be a little more optimistic. Make it like 60 40 right? Failure, success to failure. And let s oblique is just, like half, but, you know, out there in South Dakota, please, Ideally, it doesn’t come up very often, but when it does, you know you don’t want to You don’t be the ones behind behind the eight ball, you know you want you want to get well, for instance, you know, this is kind of a political topic, but the, um, fiasco in Florida with the Florida charity. Um, they were in a position to receive a station from a questionable fund raiser. Um, you know, as soon as it hit the public act out and there there were two ways to go about handled situation and positioning yourself in that situation. And when we when we come up against, um, situations like that very, You know, 1/3 party may not a lot or best interest in mind, but their actions may not align with our mission. Our vic gold. We take a stand, and instead of receding into the you want to stand up and explain, you know where you are in the story, how you responded, how your response reflect on mission in values and division so that that story isn’t written by someone else. What about selecting the right failures to talk about? I can envision some that you shouldn’t, but let’s let’s put aside the ones that are that are public, and then, you know you have to you have to share. But, uh, you know, there’s some things that you might be a might be a bad hyre or something. I mean, what what types of failures. Would we include or not? Include? Okay, So, like you said some just public And you know, if it’s if it’s going to take off in the media, you definitely want to get that. Yeah, of course. But others include white fun galas. Think things like that where maybe you don’t have the amount that you were hoping for. Yeah, you know, a lot of organizations. What they’ll do is they’ll take their attendees and squeeze them into a little ball and take a picture to make it look like they’re 100. And they’ll put that story out and, you know, talk about the great turn and everything that was accomplished. But we still need you to donate really hard on trust. The messaging doesn’t align. Whether or not your audience really puts the time into unraveling that they know they know that there’s something off and that hurts their trust. What would How would you message it instead? Um, I would mess. It’s typically about like, uh, on event. I was humorously like, Wow, we really bumbled that one. We scheduled this during this other events. Too bad we’re not that popular, you know. But since that we need you guys to show up in this capacity instead. Okay? And you feel like this is something, by the way, we just have about two minutes left. You feel like this is a way, a way to move forward in 2019 and ahead. You see this as an important future trend or current trend and just increasing Absolutely Whether or not, um, the Internet and having you know, all of the station of ages in the pub wolber hand has forced us to be transparent as a non-profit. You are complete both. So you might as well work with that to build a station ship run with it. There are great organizations like charity. My gosh, I’m so gaga over charity water. I’ve never seen such such bold. And I mean almost surreal transparency. And that’s that’s the standard that donors want and need to see any. Yeah. Um, yeah, there’s a video I remember seeing charity water scum. Scott Harrison. The CEO is standing in front of a well that failed in. They do their work in Africa. I don’t remember what countries in but the well collapsed and he said, We’ll be back. We’ll be back And I’m sure I’m sure he sure they did go back. Um Okay. Whitney River. We’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. You’re welcome. It’s a founder and chief development strategist at what’s the word? What’s the word? Inc dot com and at what’s the word Inc. Next week you heard all about it. It’s the 4 50 If if you don’t. If you don’t remember what next week’s show was about, you need to tune out. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com actually already turned out. If you don’t, if you don’t know what the 4 50 it is, you’re already out. Responsive by Wagner, c. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Witnessed gps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producers Claire Meyer off. She’ll be in the studio next week. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer is screwed up today. Social shows, Social media is by Susan Chavez. She’s safe. She’s out in California. No guilt there. Mark Silverman is our Web guy. He’s fine. And this music is by Scott Stein, who will also be in the studio next week. You’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% complete. Turn the air conditioning on. It’s sweltering in here. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential. Live Life, Your Way on talk radio dot N Y C on the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and the small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Weakening Humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. Do you love or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history. It’s vibe, it’s feel and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio dahna, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative network

368: Scale Up & Sustain – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guest this week:

Kathleen Kelly Janus, author of the book, “Social Startup Success: How the Best Nonprofits Launch, Scale Up and Make A Difference.” 

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

359: Giving Tuesday – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Jessica Schneider, director of strategy & collaboration in 92nd Street Y’s Belfer Center for Innovation.

Also, Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor, CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network and co-author of the book “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.”

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

334: The Agitator’s Donor Retention & Your Content Strategy – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Roger Craver, The Agitator and author of the book “Retention Fundraising.”

Also, Brett Meyer, director of strategy for Think Shout & Katie Carrus, director of online communications at Humane Society Legislative Fund.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

322: Digital Inclusion Furthers Impact & Your Annual Grants Plan – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Kami Griffiths, executive director at Community Technology Network; Karen Lincoln, director of business & operations for The Stride Center; and Alicia Orozco, manager of administration & special projects with Chicana Latina Foundation.

Also, Diane Leonard, president/owner of DH Leonard Consulting & Grant Writing Services.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

292: Managing Up & Content Creation and Curation – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Monisha Kapila, CEO of ProInspire, and Stephen Alexander, program manager at Exponent Philanthropy.

Also, Meghan Murphy, head of marketing and community at HandUp, and Lacy Baugher, interactive content producer at WETA.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

288: Emotional Intelligence & Peer-To-Peer Tips – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Monisha Kapila, founder & CEO of ProInspire. 

Also, Mike Wuebben, chief product strategist at Crowdster.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

121: Get Engaged III & Dutiful Documentation – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Amy Sample Ward, membership director for NTEN and blogger at Stanford Social Innovation Review

Gene Takagi & Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on december fourteenth, twenty twelve our november nine thousand you’re still with us, i’m tracking glad you’re still here, and i hope that everyone was with me last week. Yes, i just i just hope you were with me last week because if you weren’t, you would have missed show number one hundred and twenty one, twenty was last week. You can now spend five straight days listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. I suggest you start on a weekend this way you have a little extra time for bathroom and food breaks. I would start maybe on a thursday and include the weekend i would include a weekend in your five straight days of listening to non-profit radio last week, which is the one you would finish with because that will be shown number one hundred twenty would wrap you up for five days was your database policy manual? Karen heart, philanthropic services specialist for the main community foundation, and nicole san miguel, database administrator for the naacp rat free library of baltimore city, walked you through data entry standards, indexing and search ability, naming conventions and other topics that belong in your database, policy and procedure manual. And it was also maria’s top ten maria semple, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor, revealed the top ten sites that she uses in her work true to form for our doi and of dirt cheap. Most of the sites are free, and her list is now posted on the linked in group and the show’s facebook page this week get engaged three tray amy sample ward is our social media scientist. She continues her siri’s on online engagement with gold setting. How do you know if your engagement strategies they’re successful? We’ll talk about identifying goal areas, assigning metrics and measuring your success. Amy is membership director for the non-profit technology network and ten and contributes to the sand, stanford social innovation review and dutiful documentation. Jean takagi and emily chan are legal contributors from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group explain the irs rules on what should be in all those acknowledgements that you send for two thousand twelve and had a value some of those gif ts between the guests on tony’s take to my block this week. Is cause marketing guidance from the new york attorney general? The new york a g wants to help you, and i distill their advice for your cause marketing campaigns. If you’re on twitter, you can follow the hashtag non-profit radio. My pleasure now to bring on amy sample ward she’s, a membership director attend ten, contributed to stanford social innovation review, co author of social by social, a handbook on using social technologies for social impact her blogger is amy sample, ward dot or ge and she’s at amy rs ward on twitter and unfortunately, she’s not in the studio today. Amy, how are you doing? I’m doing well, how are you? I’m very well you’re in portland, oregon, right eye and in portland this is where contends that main office is so i’m out here getting to me with staff in person for a little change of scenery and was actually onboarding a new staff person this week, which is always really fun. Okay, excellent. Our thoughts are with you in portland. A lot of talk about the shooting at the mall this week. Earlier this week. Yeah. Out at the crack of this small and now this morning. The shooting in connecticut, the elementary school so it’s, kind of, you know, end end times holiday season so far, very difficult, let’s talk about first an infographic that that i was sent i was offered people send me things too talk about on the show, and this one is interesting to me, and i thought you and i could talk about it. This is an infographic called very objectively titled how social media is destroying productivity. Andi, i sent it to you, of course, and you’ve had some time look at it, i will post a link to it on the facebook page on the linked in group. In the meantime, people confined this at learn stuff dot com um, you are ever learn stuff dot com all right? Well, so they’re clearly, you know, they’re concerned about productivity. Facebook has close to a billion users forty five. Forty five million short of a billion, but let’s call it a billion. People spend two times more time on facebook than they do exercising, you know, be a little provocative about i mean, they spend more time doing facebook than other things also, but they chose exercising wolber collectively each day in the u s people spend twelve billion hours on social networks. That’s interesting. A somebody who thinks about social networking a lot. Amy what? What do your do your thoughts about what you do? You have concerns about productivity? Well, i mean, for me, i think it’s i haven’t had a chance. Tio go look into their sources of where they got the data and what the data really means. You know, things like infographics are often so interesting to people and share a ble because they they could be interpreted in many different ways for me, i think it’s less, um, less a sign of of you now everyone and their mom wastes their time all day long and, you know, we’re we’re not doing any of our work, but more a sign of a distributed organization, a new era of the way people work. You know, people can quote unquote beyond the clock from anywhere so long as they have an internet connection and, you know, a lot the times and and looking at some of the staff in there, you know, that worker is interrupted every ten minutes by things like instant messages, right? Well i know that i’m quote unquote interrupted, you know, all the time, all day long, buy-in sametz itches, but that’s because i managed staff in other cities and instant messages, how we’re just saying, hey, i just tackled that one project or, hey, i saw that e mail come into both of us and i’ll take it or, you know, just kind of the way that you would work in person by just giving each other updates out loud. It’s now moving over two dozen messages, so it’s not necessarily cat videos, you know, and elearning youtube all day long, but it’s it’s, you know, it is technically an instant message, and and it is technically an interruption, but it gets the way you work now versus aah, total distraction and you know something? What i thought was interesting is that it’s list it was instead of being specific social websites to social networking, it categorizes things as time wasting websites and the number third number three, cnn dot com es o that right number twenty nine percent think i’m going to go to cnn because i want to just, like, chat with my friends, you know, like the way they kind of think about facebook being used that way, but for so many organizations, regardless of what your industry is staying on top of websites like cnn or other breaking news sources means your organization commend the the one that has the very first public statement about it. That student in connecticut this morning, as another elementary school, to be able to respond right away or, you know, whatever the kind of crisis our emergency communications may be, staying on top of, really, what we have as a objective world now, riel time, news and information means that organizations can get ahead of their competitors sabat and speak and be the one with the first announcement or be the ones that have the resources that the other news stations there now looking for etcetera, you know, again, it’s just a different way of working and not necessarily time wasting, you know, okay, andi also for our listeners, they’re they’re spending more time in the social networks because, well, i’d like to think in part because you and i talk about that, and we encourage people to use twitter and lengthen and facebook to the extent that it’s appropriate for them and, you know, all the things that we’ve talked about, everybody wasn’t everybody shouldn’t be jumping in, you know, you and i have been through that, and we’ll continue to teo explain it. No, yeah, i mean, i know organization, nonprofit organizations where a team, you know, a subset of the staff actually used private, you know, totally private facebook groups as the place where they are kind of doing teamviewer based product project management, you know, being able to say what’s going on every day and reporting to each other, etcetera, because it’s a tool that all of the people on that team are familiar with, they know how to use it, they like that email notifications in the back and forth. So instead of adopting a whole different project management tool that would be outside of any other tool there there regularly using, just use the facebook group and again, so that means they have facebook open all day, but they’re not necessarily just again, you know, posting cat videos to their friends facebook pages there, they’re using it for real time team communication. Okay, we’re gonna leave that there wanted to get your opinion on it. One thing i’ll close with is that the average college student spends three hours a day checking social sites, but what they don’t compare that is, too, the average number of hours a day that the the college students spend having sex buy-in i object that they left that out? I mean, i was a monk in college, but but there are lots of people spending a lot more than three hours a day at least having sex either with somebody or or alone, which for some people that’s a favorite weii just have a minute before a break. Amy sample ward, let’s see, we want to talk about our our engagement strategy, but really just have a minute or so we’re talking about goals. Do you have some congee? Just tease a little bit? How do you how do you start to set goals? And then you and i have a lot more time after the break. Sure, i mean first, if we’re going to a break, then i encourage everybody to go look upon their organization’s website and see what your mission statement and you actually have a theory of change, or if you don’t know what, that is just used the commercial break the good little theory of change opportunity, or pull up your organization’s active strategic plan, because that is really where you start when you’re going to create gold that apply to your social media, even though people would think they’re not, you know that high up and organizations chart of some sort. But really, you do start all the way your mission, or your strategic plan, or your theory of change. Okay, theory of change, or your strategic plan or your mission. You have homework for the break, and when we return, amy and i will keep talking about getting engaged online. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. 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And curry, korea all live listener love going out tio are asian and mexican listeners, and we’ll get to the u s shortly. All right, amy, why is the right place to start with your strategic plan or your mission, or your your change theory? Well, in theory, not nothing that you are doing in your organization regardless of what department you’re in or what your job title is, nothing should should be extraneous from meeting your mission. The whole purpose of all of your staff, the reason that you have different departments, all of it should be to the end of meeting your mission, and when we that social media up as something that’s outside of that normal plan, then we’ve already set it up for first of all, other staff cannot really support it or, you know, to not have leadership for the board buy-in and that work because they don’t see it directly connected to the mission because it isn’t. But secondly, it also means that whoever it is that taft with that work isn’t able to set goals in the same kind of way, they don’t even see their own, you know, purpose for work as contributing to the organization in the same way. So not only do other people not buy-in and support it, but then the person that’s doing it themselves doesn’t see how they fit so outside of even what you do with the work, just setting up the contacts for that person and why they’re doing their job. You know, you either have an opportunity there for success or failure before you even start engaging. So so starting with your mission statement, you know, from there, you just work backwards look for the aspects of your mission that are focus on action and interaction, and then look for the parts that are social, the things that your community is able to contribute, too, and not just the aspects of your mission that, you know, require your staff policy maker or something. So so look for the opportunity where the community can be in and then require interaction, and then that’s where you actually set the gold specific to your social media or your community department now way learned a couple of weeks ago when you were on the last time that you have a real affinity for alligators. Actually, you’re a little scared of algiers, so we’re going to use save the alligators as our example eyes are hypothetical charity, okay, terrific, because because i know that’s something that you could buy into easily, of course, and also want listeners to know that this siri’s on getting engaged began october fifth if you want to catch the first part of it, and the second part was november sixteenth. So if we have our charities, objective is to save the alligators may be in the florida everglades, so not not worldwide, but just in florida in the everglades. There’s there’s terrific opportunity for outsiders to contribute to that in terms of awareness, maybe political advocacy, things like that, right? Okay, on dh and an organization, you know, or this organization that you and i have now founded called save the alligators provoc we probably have some sort of strategic plan or or we’re going to the whether we call it that or not, or something like a theory of change, which is more broad and says, this is how we see our mission coming, coming to fruition that says, you know, we see a few different ways that we’re going to save the alligators first is in the policy that support seven, and this is the kind of policy we’re going to work for it and the next is, you know, and this is where we’re going to create educational programs, so the public is no latto you’re scared of alligators or something, you know, so far down the line like that, you were goingto bucket out how we’re going to do this work, and from there we could say, oh, great, so there’s there’s a policy component of our of our mission? Well, in order for anyone to support a policy, they need to know about it. So a portion of the person’s job, the energy in our social media, they’re going to have a whole bucket, a goal of oppcoll and metrics and and work that’s focused on letting people know what that public policy proposal is understanding what it means getting. Involved probably recruited in their stories to help, you know the organizations public policy statement today if you can have community members saying, yes, we love our alligators, and this is, you know, how we’ve seen are so on the area destroyed and now hurting the alligators, i realized that all of this example shows how little i really know about alligators. Well, then, that’s a part of this person’s job and it’s no longer just yet tweet all the time about how we have a policy recommendation, but it’s so much more tangible because it helped change people’s minds about the policy recruit stories about this policy, etcetera, you know? So so you can translate directly from that mission all the way down to the buckets of actual content you’re posting every week. Okay? And how about some of the some of the advocacy, too? We want maybe people to write letters to editors and to bloggers we want to have people call or otherwise contact their state representatives things and so there’s a way we have our calls to action like we talked about last week, last month, exactly like last way said, you can’t just create a twitter account and start asking everybody to retweet you and take all of your calls action. But once you build up that community and you started building trust and engaging with people, then you can use the social tools to identify who those bloggers are that everybody listens to and reach out to them and say, great will you write the first the letter again showing that that you recognize them at the champion and influence there in the community? Will you write the first a letter and then other people will want to follow and participate, etcetera? Okay, okay, this is a good cause. And i appreciate that you want to be the co founder it’s a big step for you. That’s. A big step for you. All right. S o we’re so we clearly need to be, as you said, mission focused. Otherwise, there’s not going to be the support and the understanding of why were even engaged online. Why we even doing anything online before we moved to metrics? Anything more that you want to say about about creating the goals? No. I mean, i think, you know, a lot of people feel like well, you know we don’t have ah brand new strategic plan or we don’t have things laid out like this, but i really just i mean, we just showed with this very sophisticated organization that tony and i have just created called save the alligators, it really is that easy to move from a really high level, lofty mission statement, tangible work in in social engagements. So regardless of what your mission statement is or how it’s set up now, i really encourage all organizations to start from that place and don’t feel like, well, you are the organization that can you really can. And i just like that. If there’s ever than a challenge to why do we devote resource is it could be just a two person or three person shot, but why are we spending time on twitter and facebook? Because it’s a direct thes three threes direct correlations to our mission here, we’re trying to get join with advocacy. We’re trying to get awareness we’re trying to get public policy change, and this is how our social social engagement strategy supports each of those elements of our mission, right? Exactly, which is so much more empowering to that that person, but also to the whole organization, they can now translate for themselves how the person working in public policy can work with the person that’s doing the online engagement, and they could work together and not just, you know, separately in their own jobs, they could see how both of them need each other internally as well. Okay, let’s, move, teo metrics way want to start to measure these things? That’s that’s a substantial criticism of social networking that it’s not measurable. How do we know whether we’re succeeding, which we’ll get to, but but that’s what? You want to dispel all that? Right? Because it is measurable. Exactly. I mean, when you you know, a lot of organizations it’s really easy to track certain numbers because the different platform’s show them to you very prominently you goto a facebook page and now the really prominent number of how many people have liked that page well for you, almost every organization i’ve ever met that number isn’t the crucial number that you care about on your facebook page because if you have a thousand people that have become a fan of your page but none of them ever comment. Or share or even read what you post there, it might as well be xero people that like your page because no one would know. So making sure that that you go beyond just those really easy numbers toe look at, like, how many people are following you on twitter or whatever? And again, go back to those schools if we’re talking about state of the alligators, and we know that advocacy is a really important part and people actually taking that action way contract that let’s say, we want to see how many people yet wrote the letter, but how many people shared the letter of someone else, you know, way down that prominent blogger and asked them to write up a love letter to the very first letter, how many people commented on the letter that they wrote, so it doesn’t even have to be your facebook page, but but how many people are engaging with the advocacy appeals, whether you posted them or they’re the appeal you know, in your network, and that goes to all kinds of things, so not just you know how many people are liking or commenting on that letter, but how many? People have retweeted it how many people signed up on your website to stay in the loop on what’s going on on that advocacy appeal? So making sure that even though we’re thinking about this social engagement work as social media, quote unquote ah lot of these metrics don’t stay in that silo of facebook. If you’re doing a really great job on facebook, engaging people around an appeal, you also want to be just a the same time tracking how many people clicked to your website and signed up for the email to stay in the loop or how many people come from facebook to your website. And how long did they stay on the website? You know, looking at that that full circle from your your quote unquote home base, your website or your campaign page to social media and then teo material like emails or videos where it would be something there just consuming and back again. So how is that whole, you know, three part triangle connected and staying engaged throughout? Okay, how do we know what Numbers 22 start with if it’s a number of people who go overto comment on the on the letter. That was written over on the bloggers site let that was posted. How do we know what kinds of numbers to begin with? I mean, some some of the most basic that that all organizations can at least start tracking now to see if they know where they want to go next. What they’re tracking is so be tools specific as necessary. So was twitter, for example, you don’t just want to say how many people retweeted us this week. You want to say how many people retweeted our post that had a lincoln? Um, and how many p people retreated our posts that didn’t have a link, because as you you know, set yourself up to separate that content, you’re better able tto learn from the data, if you see after three weeks of tracking that you have fifty retweets every you know for posts that don’t have a link and you have to re tweets for your post that have a link. Well, that’s your community saying please stop posting links to your website. We just want to talk teo on twitter of or the invert you see, everyone wants to be sharing those links to your policy. Documents, but no one is retweeting you when you’re just sharing information, we’ll make sure that your frequently not always but frequently posting with the link so separate out the data as best you can, so that when you’re tracking it, you’re able tto learn from it and take action on it. And so that was a twitter example, but facebook another place where you can easily separate things out. Is it something that you posted because it had a photo or a video? Or was it something that was just a language or even just taxed? And how? How does your community respond to those things? So look at how many people viewed at term people commented how people shared it on dh then we can talk about more of the measuring and processes in a minute, but basically the best thing you could do is just to start tracking don’t say, well, we don’t have certain things in place yet or we haven’t finished creating this really great profile photos were not really using that page yet. You doesn’t matter just start tracking now because you’re not going to be able to make those informed decisions about what. To try next, or what kind of content to start creating until you’ve at least started tracking some things so you could say, gosh, no one interacts with our videos on facebook, let’s not invest in creating another video right now today, let’s try something else instead of feeling like you have to get all of that set up ahead of time. I mean, i just wanna let you know we’ll talk about measuring success next time we’ll have, we’ll have well haven’t get engaged part for because the metrics this metric section is really important. What about the the metrics that facebook gives you, like free, post like reach on a number of people who viewed and we have just like a minute and a half or so left are those are those of value? Yes, they really can be as far as measuring kinds of your post against each other so that you can say, you know, gosh, this one reached a whole lot more people than the one we posted yesterday. But there are so many variables to that built into facebook’s system, but also into you know, what day of the week was it and what? Time of the day wasn’t and did a lot of people like it right away, and so that then translated it, showing up in all of those people new season, then all of their friends interacting with it, you know? So there are so many variables in there that it’s hard to look at, it is just a static number, you know, a magical silver bullet of a data point, but it is helpful when you do sit down tto look between posts and say, gosh, what made this one reach so many more people? Well, then you can you don’t just say, well, i guess this post is a lot better, but it gives you the opportunity to say, this is the one that reached the most what was going on here that was different. Was it in a different time of day? What is it at, you know, a different day of the week, etcetera, okay? And you and use that information. But, you know, different organizations really focus in on different metrics, so some organizations rely on the talking about facebook metric and not because it’s better or worse than anything else, but they just picked it. And said, we’re just going to stick with it so that we’re sticking with one metric for now, others, they’re looking at reach, another aspect that impacts all of that facebook data. Is it you didn’t invest any money in promoting your post, we have to leave it there. We’re going to continue this subject next time amy is on show way will have her back. I wasn’t sure, but since she’s talking she’s talking about no, of course, we’ll have get engaged part for in january in january, amy alligator, that’s, right, save the alligators, you confined amy at her blawg, amy, sample, ward, dot or ge, and on twitter she’s at amy r s ward. Ah, that’s it at me, rs word. Amy, i hope you have productive meetings in portland. Thank you so much, all right, thank you. I hope you’ll be back in the studio in january. I certainly, well, excellent. Right now we’ll take a break, and when we come back, it’s, tony’s, take two, and then gene takagi and emily chan are legal contributors on dutiful documentation. Stay with me. They didn’t think that shooting getting, thinking, you’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you too? He’ll call us now at two one two seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Durney welcome back live listener love here in the u s lawyer, california port, ellen, new york, new york, new york, liquid new jersey and new bern, north carolina there’s more those air are so far live listener love to those listening here in the united states. My block this week is cause marketing guidance from the new york attorney general cause marketing is when you team up with a company so that you raise money and they either sell stuff or they enhance their reputation or their image because they’re affiliated with your charity on dh there’s a lot of blurriness around this because a lot of people don’t really know how much money actually goes to the charity or how it’s determined how much is going to go. So the new york attorney general had some guidance five recommendations nufer i’ll just mention two of them here explain exactly what’s being donated. A lot of times you’ll see advertisements will say net proceeds to the charity we’ll net net of what? How do they define proceeds? Also after the campaign? Tell us all how much was raised. People want to know what the impact was, did they? Did they? Make a difference for you. So those are two of the five recommendations from the new york attorney general there’s more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com the post is called cause marketing guidance from the new york attorney general, and i’m still asking for your help so many listeners. I’d be grateful if you’d rate and review the show in itunes rating is one to five stars you started our page on itunes, which you’ll find at non-profit radio dot net, or you could just search and then click view in itunes and itunes will open up and you’ll see a place for ratings and reviews. So it’s just a couple of clicks, i’d be grateful if you’d rate the show and write a short review and you do that night tunes and i’m very grateful for that. Thank you. And that is tony’s. Take two for friday, december fourteenth, the fifty first show of the year. Joining me now from san francisco. Jean takagi he’s, the principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group and he had it’s the popular non-profit law blogged dot com on twitter he is at gi tak g ta. K and also emily chan, who is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to the non-profit law block she’s the american bar association’s twenty twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer, which is now coming to an end. I don’t know what she’s going to do in twenty thirteen shut the rest on morals from from the previous year, but so far that today that title’s title remains and you can follow emily on twitter at emily chan, jean and emily welcome hi, tony. Happy holidays. Hello. Thank you, emily. What you gonna do in twenty thirteen? You know, i’m not think reminding thinking about that. I’ll have to say she was last. Year’s american bar association. Outstanding. Young non-profit lawyer it’s it’s. Not the same laurel resting it’s. No. Good. We’re here to talk about documentation. How to get the right documentation and acknowledgements to your donors. But first, how to know what date the gift should be dated. Your your acknowledgement certainly has to have the date of gift gene let’s. Start with you. If if if a gift is a sent by mail us mail. What? What date do we does? The charity use for the date of gift? Well, the charity is probably going to use the postmark days, but the actual date that the don’t i get to take the deduction is the day that the donor dropped that envelope with a check in the mail box. So if it gets postmark the next day or january first, which is the next day, if they do dropped it off in december, thirty person gets post by january second. Donors have to form the charity that dropped it off. Oh, my gosh. Okay, gene, can you speak a little louder? Great. Uh, gene, can you speak a little louder for us? Yeah, absolutely. Tony so great question donors goingto take the deduction on the date. They drop it in the mailbox. But make sure that the charity knows that otherwise the charity’s gonna use the postmark date on the envelope on those could be different. That’s true. It’s. Okay, all right. And this becomes important as we’re talking about december thirty first versus january first or second when the when the gift is actually well, wouldn’t be open to probably january first. But it’s actually received and opened in the office january second or third. This becomes important. For those who wait till the last minute. Jean what about if it’s not received us mail, but it’s received by fedex because the person waited till the last minute or some other overnight service. Another great quest? Tony, don’t send last minute charitable donations through fedex if you’re trying to get a deduction in two thousand twelve because then that the charitable contribution will be deemed given when the fedex arrived and was received by the charity’s avectra steve january second that’s going to count of the two thousand thirteen death. Better to drop it in the mail that i sent it fedex on december thirty. Okay, excellent, excellent advice. And, of course, if gift his hand delivered, if somebody comes to your office, then that would be the day they handed over to you that’s. Right. Ok. Credit card donation. Same way is the day that that credit card is process. So the day that you give it, uh, okay. Well, wait now. Credit card processing, the date you you do the form online might not be the date that it actually gets to the gets to the charity and process. So how does that work? Well, it will be the day that it’s processed by the credit card companies. So it will usually be instantaneous. Okay. And would you use the date on your statement then? As the as the right date of gift watch? The donor’s probably gonna deduct it on the date that they made that charge. So yes, if they’ve got a receipt for it on december thirty first. That’s, the date you it might be different from the bank statement dated the bank takes a delay in processing. Take your receipt if you make that charitable contribution. Okay. You mean the credit card credit card receipt? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Emily let’s. Turn to you. Now, we now we’ve figured out how to know what date to put for the for the gift date. Let’s. Start with gifts of of cash. How do we appropriately acknowledge those for our donors? So, you and tony, tony, you and jane have already talked about some of the ways that you do. This is the donor. For example, looking at your bank records were having some kind of receipt that maybe automatically prints out. But when we start looking at gifts over two hundred fifty dollars, it’s important that the substantiation you have is something that actually comes from the organization. Um, and this is an irs rules, so again, default attacks mary-jo have a receipt for everything that you’re going to deduct, but when you’re looking at something over two hundred and fifty dollars, you need to make sure that the organization gives you some kind of written substantiation if you plan to take that deduction. And the funny part of this rule is that generally speaking, the organization isn’t required. Give that to you so again, as the donor is good to be informed of what you need and same thing with an organization and know what the donor needs, that you have good donorsearch right on dso our listeners are mostly the charities, so so over two hundred fifty dollars, they’re required to send an acknowledgement. No, they’re not required to something unknown judgment, but the donor is required to have one so it’s good donorsearch to put something in place for the organisation, that you’re able to issue out those in a timely manner and also with the most efficiency from the organization’s perspective, and the substantiation should say, you know what? You would expect, like, the amount of the contribution, but as well as whether that dahna received anything in return for the contribution. And if they did, how much they received a return. Okay, and we’ll get to that shortly. But also the date of the gift, right? You have to tell them, is not sufficient to just date your letter, but you have to give the date of the gift correct and it’s important to give that substantiation in what they consider a contemporaneous manner, which means before the end of the year of when the donor would make that deduction basically. Okay. Okay. Before so it before the end of twenty. Thirteen. You mean when they would claim the deduction? Is that what you mean? Right? Right. Okay. But of course, you want to do it before then, because there probably going to be filing their taxes by april fifteenth or october at the latest. Okay. All right. So now i wanna make sure i didn’t confuse listener. So two hundred fifty dollars, what’s the what’s, the what’s. The rule around two hundred fifty dollars, for two hundred fifty dollars, or more. The donor’s required to have a written substantiation from the organization the caveat here that was generally speaking, an organization isn’t required to issue one on we’ll get you an exception like he said in the seconds, but this is really important for organizations. No, not just look at what they’re required to do, but what would be a best practice to do, and it is the best practice as far as your donor issue, those, uh, received for them so that what your donor isn’t going to come back and say, hey, i tried to take the deduction that you never gave me this acknowledgement, and now i’m upset will never don’t you again, right? And of course, the really best wayto be thankful for gift and to express that is tio acknowledge every gift, even if it’s only five dollars? Yes, we would say so, but i don’t know that especially have it’s the hyre amount it’s even more important, we would say, because of this extra requirement from the irs. Okay, let’s, go teo publicly traded stock, and we’re not going toe listeners. We’re not going to talk about, um, privately held stock in privately held companies because it becomes very difficult of value. And things like that. But emily for a publicly traded stock first let’s define that. What do we mean by publicly traded? So this would begin stock that’s being treated openly on the market right now. So you would be able to look at the stock market and figure out how much it’s trading for at any given day or time. All right. And how do we acknowledge that kind of a gift? So this would be assuming that the organization is going teo, liquidate this right away, meaning that they’re also going to sell it. You’re going to treat it just like another contribution again? That could be tax deductible. So the organization is going to want to know again. Asshole of the donor. How much? That doctor’s words on the day that it’s given to the date of the gift. And basically the way that you do that. If you look at what it’s being chased out the high in the low and you take the average okay, excellent. Some people there’s some confusion. Sometimes people think it’s the value that the stock closed at on the day of the transfer. But that’s not right, it’s that average that you just explained if i can jump in it’s important to realize, though, that that’s going to be the donor’s responsibility to figure out what the deduction amount is. And the charity is giving those numbers just a matter of convenience for the donor and the donor’s tax advisor. So should there be some little caveat in your letter that says we’re not providing tax advice in giving you the value or what? What? We estimate the value of your deduction to be, i think that’s great advice, tony, to just say that caesar for internal gift recognition purposes, and to please seek guidance from your tax or financial advisor regarding the deductibility of your gift. Okay, gene let’s, stay with you. We have just a minute before a break so let’s, you know what? Let’s, just take our break and we’ll make a clean cut and, well, gene and emily and i will continue talking about documentation for quid pro quo gifts. What happens when you get a little thing back or something big back? And how do you value those things? Stay with us. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Okay, let’s, gene let’s, talk a little about when someone gets something in exchange and let’s start small. Suppose you make a gift and you get back a mug or a pen or a t shirt. Kind of what generally, the rule is if the gift for the contribution or payment that is being made by the donor is more than seventy five dollars, and you’re getting something back in return of value, then the charity has got to give you some sort of written disclosure that indicates the value of the item is given in return. But if it’s a token, ida, um, then there may be no need to do that, so token item might be okay. And what is a token is actually kind of defined, um, by the amount it is, it could be a low cost item. Or it could be an item that has the organisation’s name on it on. And if it’s a low enough value than that that’s going to be okay. And so the dollar figures i’m goingto let emily provided it doesn’t come off the top of my head. But it’s the low. Cost article, i think, is nine seventy with the organisation’s name or logo and if it’s not with the organisation’s name or logo, if the mug is less than two percent the lesser of two percent of the donation or ninety seven dollars, then you don’t have to give that written disclosures statement that says the amount of the value of the item given back to the donor return. Okay, that’s, a that’s? A lot to unpack, but listeners could go back and play that play that part back-up emily does does jean have? The number is correct. Okay, okay, now, gene, that was if the if the donation is more than seventy five dollars, if the donation is less than seventy five dollars, then you don’t have the charity need not disclose what was given in return. Is that is that right? Yet although it’s going to be a good idea for the charity to do so anyway, because the donor can only deduct the amount of the payments that is actually a charitable contributions so other than for those token token items, then something for the charity to indicate. So even if he gave a fifty dollars, gift to charity. And you got twenty five dollars, back. That charity should indicate what that amount given back. Okay, so, so sort of similar to what we talked about before it’s. Just it’s. Good practice to just do it all the time. Uh, disclosed what was received all the time. Okay. Plus, i just got makes it easier for your for your gift processing people. Teo did not have different rules. Just do it all the same way each time. Yeah. And note that this comes up all the time when charity’s hold their holiday party events and copied the chicken dinner with the ticket. Um, so the chicken dinner given back is a benefit that probably is more than the token benefit or the low cost benefit. So that’s going to be something that the charity will want to get back into receipt? The whole ticket may not be deductible, but a portion, maybe. Okay. And what? What about the silent auction items that you have? You have advice around those two? Yeah. Now, that gets to be a very tricky area. Because when you received ah non-cash contribution from a donor, the charity not goingto value that so. If somebody gives you a expensive vase and they say, you know, this is our donation to you, the cherry has no responsibility and is not in the business of appraising that for the donor. The donor is gonna have to do that themselves begat the deduction. But the charity will give back a receipt stating that a description of the items given, however, the big exception is if now the charity goes ahead and take that vase and puts it into a silent auction. And somebody bids sport let’s say somebody bid five hundred dollars for that body, right? The charity has got a responsibility to let the donor or the person paying for the box know what portion is a donation. And what portion is really the value of that vase? Uh, that they’re actually making just a strict payment for quid pro quo. Because it’s part sale and part gift and only the gift portion is deductible. Okay. And how are we going, teo? Value that? Yeah. Really tricky it it depends upon the item. So you know, if it’s super expensive than the charity, may have to get an appraiser to do that, otherwise they might. Look into, you know, being if it’s a fairly modest item, you may just look on ebay or craigslist that used and try to figure it out, but you don’t have to use reasonable method based, but, you know, pop your resources and the valley of the gift. Okay, emily let’s, go teo volunteering if someone’s instead of instead of making cash gift or stock if they’re spending their time with the organization, what what does the charity have a responsibility to? Teo teo, disclose that or acknowledge it in a certain way. And what can the donor deduct? I’m not necessarily so. The thing about volunteer services that the individual volunteering not deduct. I got the value of that volunteer time. So let’s say it’s the equivalent to paying, you know, twenty dollars per hour for your bookkeeper or something like that. You’re you’re volunteering the service, an organization that not deductible. But what could be deductible are the expenses that are incurred that are related to the volunteer services. So what say the cost of gas to get to the non-profits a place of business in order to do the financial services for them? Okay, we really have to leave it there. We just have a brief moment. Emily there’s a couple of publications that are valuable for for charities to figure this stuff out. What? What are those? Please? So there’s, the irs publication seventeen. Seventy one that’s. A really easy to read pamphlet. There’s also an irs publication. Five twenty six, which is a more comprehensive guide on charitable contributions and anything that’s tricky, like art or vehicles. There are special irish publications for that as well. So i would look for that specifically. Okay. And you’ll find the pubs on iris dot. Gov. Yes, that’s correct. Okay, we have to leave it there. I want to thank. Jean takagi and emily chan are regular legal contributors from the non-profit exempt organizations. Law group. You confined them both at non-profit law blawg dot com happy holidays to both of you. Thanks very much. Thank you. My pleasure, aunt. Of course. Also, my thanks to amy sample ward next week. Robert egger, ceo of sea forward that’s the letter c. He and i are going to talk about how to get political candidates to add non-profit issues to their platforms and how to endorse the candidates. Who? Do and scott koegler will be with me, our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. You can hardly navigate the social way without smacking your head into tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re on facebook, youtube, twitter linked in four, square all those places and if i can urge you to go to itunes again, i’d be grateful if you would rate and review the show there wishing you good luck the way performers do around the world. 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