Nikki Henry wants leaders to communicate effectively, set clear expectations, break down barriers, embrace DEI, and more. She’s CEO of Ladies Leading Ladies and she spills it all.
The Power Of Failure
Failures are as powerful as success stories to rally folks around your cause. Whitney Raver encourages you to embrace your bungles and botches – and share them with your communities. She’s chief development strategist at What’s The Word.
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, the Video guide for non-profit marketing, which is the definitive guide. I’m in it, they quoted me. Ah, and it’s a very astute, articulate on accurate quote. They got it right, Um, in all its students and articulateness, this guide is from type Ito T y p i t o type a type edo dot com. They’re the canvas of video. The guide includes the strategic like acquisition, engagement, stewardship and tactical, like lower thirds and captioning and text animation. You’ll find this thing that I’m in at t y p i t o dot com and I thank them for including me and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of Dalek. Oh, several ism if you hit me with the heady idea that you missed today’s show leadership. Nikki Henry wants leaders to communicate effectively set clear expectations, break down barriers embrace D I and more. She’s CEO of ladies leading ladies, and she spills it all. Then the power of failure failures are as powerful as success stories to rally folks around your cause, Whitney Raver encourages you to embrace your bungles and Boches and share them with your communities. She’s chief development strategist at What’s the Word on Tony Steak, too? Show number 450 Responsive by Wagner C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software, Denali, fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communication, Shin’s PR and content. For non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here’s Nicky Henry and leadership. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show Nikki Henry. She is the founder and CEO of Ladies Leading Ladies, a company dedicated to helping women and non binary people grow as supportive leaders. She’s a passionate dork. She’s at ladies underscore leading underscore, and the company is at ladies leading ladies dot com. Welcome to non-profit radio. Nikki Henry. Thank you so much, Tony. My pleasure. What’s a passionate dork? So I call myself a dork because I am super, uh, nerdy in the way that I want to make sure that data and research backs up what I am teaching with leadership. As I was growing as a leader, I always went back to the data and research and my undergrads in psychology. So I just have that nerdy numbers data research part of me. But I’m super passionate, and I I have worked in non-profits for the last decade because I care about families, and I care about our communities. Okay. Uh, it’s fair. Of course. You know, that was that. I didn’t label you that. That’s Ah, that’s your idea, That is, um So we were supposed to connect that? Ah, 1990 sea. And then you were so passionate about helping your audience on. They wanted so much of you afterwards that you couldn’t make it to the recordings boost on time. And so now so here we are, many months later, but I’m glad it worked. Doubt metoo piela very. For a while, I was a little I was a little noncommunicative. You e mailed. And then I said Okay, hold on. I’ll get I’ll get to you when you know when I have a breaking schedule. So I don’t know. I hope that, uh see, I like Esso I was not reaching out. Um, I like to lead by fear and intimidation. Um uh, condescension. You, no doubt. So that’s my style. That’s right. That’s why that’s why I wasn’t getting back to you. I mean, we could have done this the first week after ntcdinosaur. I wanted to exercise my leadership in my, uh, my white male privilege and authority. Oh, my goodness. Just so fun. Yeah. So I feel like that’s my leadership style. Is that is that is that in line with what you’re doing at the lady’s leading ladies? You know, I feel like you just did my intro and the opposite. Yeah. Okay, so my my method is the antithesis of yours. I would say so. All right. I don’t know. Fear and doubt and loathing and condescension. They seem to work well for me, but all right way don’t have to go down that way. Um, So you want Thio? Well, tell me what leading ladies leading ladies is about. Yeah. So this company really came out of my own experience in the workplace. And like I said, I spent about 10 years in non-profits working in different leadership roles, and I noticed a couple of things. One, especially in the nonprofit world, were very much trial by fire. I got thrown in, um, you know, as a first time leader and had to figure it out. So there was a lot of that imposter syndrome going on with me. A lot of the scared that people are gonna find out. I don’t know what the heck I’m doing. Um and so I just dove into teaching myself. So I definitely saw that piece. I saw that lack and I saw that white space, especially with our non-profits on properly training and investing in our leaders so that we conserve our community’s best. And the second thing I saw is one of the programs that I worked with. We scaled rapidly over a five year period. We went from four full time employees to 55 during that time that I was there. And so we had a ton going on. And what I noticed was specifically the women that I worked with who were incredibly hard working so intelligent, um, and had been with me from the get go, weren’t throwing their hat in the ring for those promotions. And for those management opportunities. And so I got to really chat with them and dig in. But I know this isn’t a unique problem. This is something that we’re facing in our workplaces where we have a lack of representation of really strong, amazing women in those leadership roles. Okay. And you want to turn that around Exactly. Okay. Uh, so you’re some of your advice is around effective communications for women. So what are what are what are women not getting right that they could be doing better around communications And And how do we sex it? You know what’s fun s o with the with the business. I really have a passion around bringing women and non binary people into representation and leadership. But what I teach is not gender specific. And what I actually found, the more that I dug into research and data, you know, from Gallup in different areas is that if we’re gonna go with gender stereotypes, women are actually better prepared to be the most effective leaders. Based on what the data is showing us, an effective leader looks like. And what that means is now we need coaches. We don’t need managers. We need. People who are focusing on relationships are focusing on development are focusing on, um, that communication, bringing together multiple perspectives and really creating a team versus just the top down, you know, crack the whip type of accountability that we may have had in the past and may still have in many workplaces. So it’s really about that communication and getting to know your people one on one as human beings and how you can uniquely motivate them to be the most successful team member that they could be. Okay, s o teamwork. Collaborative. You know, people, uh, we just have, like, a minute and 1/2 or so before before our break. What? How come we, uh s So how can we break down the barriers that exist between leader and following, You know, whatever Employer, employee advisor, supervisor worker. I mean, is it as simple as just like social events o r. Go deeper? I think it’s deeper, and I think it’s two main things. I think that it’s training and rewarding our leadership for being those supportive leaders or as burn a Brown says a daring leader. Um and then the second piece is really focusing on diversity equity and inclusion. I know you were speaking about that on a previous podcast where we really have to dive into our own identity is the identities of those that were working with and be able to really embrace the assets that come along with that diversity and an inclusive workplace. Yeah. Yeah, we did. We get ah, a couple of d I topics and 19 ntc and we talked about it before that. Um right. Why don’t we, uh, take our break right now? Pursuant. They’ve got a podcast as well, and there’s there’s is go beyond. It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin, who’ve been a guest on non-profit radio a couple times. Ah, a couple of recent episodes of go beyond our Self Care for Leaders and four digital trends. For 2019 you will find the podcast Go beyond at pursuing dot com slash Resource is now let’s go back. Thio. Nikki Henry. Okay. Thank you for that indulgence, Nikki. Henry. Absolutely. Go take care of our our sponsors. Um all right. Um So how do we so I’d like to get into some some, you know. How do you do it? Not just not just not just what to do, but but how So how can How can an effective leader get to know they’re there? There, folks better abila more, more personally. You know, as you were saying, Yeah, So at 19 NTC, um, I was going through this with our group there and some of the three top things that I really focus on our your communication. So both in meetings and facilitating those meetings, setting clear goals and just motivating and engaging your team. So one of the things that I really push, um, and have seen work in my own work but also in others is that our leaders take time to sit down one on one on a weekly basis with each of their direct reports. And when I say that people screeched to a halt because nobody needs more mean eight meetings, nobody wants to be stuck in meetings more than they already are. Right? So it’s really about how to make those meetings productive. Um, And how Thio, I understand that making that investment of time these weekly one on ones or 25 30 minutes make that investment of time is actually going to give you more time on the return because you’re having less of people knocking on your door and saying Hey, do you have a minute? Hey, can I ask you a question? Hate kanai This on the same page? You’re aligning at least weekly. Nobody. Converium off course too far if you’re really talking on a weekly basis and you work into that weekly conversation a human element as well. So asking people about their Weiqing of weekend asking people about their family and making sure that there is that human element in it as well as we move forward. Okay, this is related to something I just read on Seth Gordon’s Blawg. Okay, basically, he was talking about slack. You know that we don’t have to be so tightly, um timed and so efficient in the in the short term that in the long term we’re going to suffer. He uses the analogy of airplanes the way you know it. Sze time down to the minute. And if there’s a storm, you know when every plane is being utilized in the short time in the immediate term there’s a storm or a breakdown of an aircraft, there’s no slack built in. So the whole system cascades and can collapse. If there’s a storm in L. A or New York or Chicago Santa, um, the whole country can come to a halt aircraft. So, um, you know, So his recommendation is, you know, don’t be so short term focused and build in some what you might consider to be inefficiency in the short term. But in the long term, it’s gonna be it’s gonna give you rewards. That sounds like you’re saying, have these weekly 30 minute meetings. Um, what you’re gonna know they’re gonna cause you a little tightness in, but in the long run, you’ll get you’ll get Amore, I guess Committed employees who you get to know someone who’s gonna be more likely to come to you with a problem instead of quit when there’s a problem. Exactly. Take a week of Lee sick leave and then quit while there’s reportedly sick. They’re out looking for you. Actually had an interview. Yeah. Yeah, they’re gonna talk to you and you’ll develop amore more committed. More, more collaborative employees. Exactly. All right. All right. So 30 minutes, 30 minute, one on ones. You okay? What What else do you like to see so and a lot of these, they might sound like we’re going back to the basics, right? But another latto always. That’s not always, but that’s not always bad. Yes, we could use a more basic. So I think it’s important because we might know these things. But practicing them is a whole different thing. So I also talk about smart girls, which again people kind of roll their eyes because I asked everyone in the room How many of you have heard of smart goals? Almost everyone raises their hands, right? And then I asked people, How many of you are utilizing that when you give out, you know, a task list or goals to your team members? Crickets? Very rarely are people actually looking at. Okay, we’re talking about what our priorities are for the weak. I’m, you know, helping someone to set those priorities. But I didn’t take the extra 30 seconds, one minute, two minutes to go through and make sure that it was specific that we know how we’re measuring success. But it’s actually achievable that it’s relevant to what we’re working on the big picture. So we’re not just doing busywork and that there’s a deadline that were clear. And if we actually took those act extra 30 seconds to two minutes to go through that with things that were asking of our team, we would have such a more efficient workplace. But also we would have such a better relationship because our expectations are a lie. And we know what’s being asked of us. We have clear expectations. And also, as a leader, you’re going to get a project or a product that is actually what you asked for versus that person trying to read your mind and ending up. You get something and you say, What the heck is? This is not what I asked for it all. And you know okay, yeah, clear expectations, any anything. So let’s ah, shift a little bit from Well, they’re all related. But expect eight expectations setting no more advice around making that clear for people. Yes, I think that you know, those two things really tied together. So the smart girls on the one on ones because you want to be talking early often, Um, and especially as we are in Thio, a millennial generation that’s taking you know, is the largest part of our work force. You’re gonna see the same with Jen’s e J. Expect early and often immediate feedback. And so that’s going to increase that relationship. Increase that communication and decrease the times that you’re really going to end up with someone not understanding their expectations and veering off course so early and often regular feedback, both good and bad. Eso really balancing those? The other thing that I will say, especially because you’re putting these extra meetings on um on the calendar, is don’t hold meetings that could have been an email, so you’re already taken the time to sit down one on one. Don’t hold the weekly staff meeting or the weekly department meeting. If you’ve got nothing to say. If you’ve got no nothing that needs to be brainstorm or worked out as a team, if it’s just an update to policy, it’s a memo. It’s a schedule whole thing. Shoot it in an email, don’t add more time to meetings because that’s why people really, really dread them is because they’re just sitting in something that they could have read in an email in five minutes. Okay, you’re, uh go, Just go on back to the first point you made about being honest. You know it, Sze totally unfair to an employee Thio to find out at the annual or the semi annual performance review that you know there’s a problem with something exactly. And it’s been festering for months. For months or something, you never give the person a chance. Toe improve. Now you’re now it’s formal. Now it’s written now. Now they feel like they’ve been shat on Andi and they got like, a blind sided races versus having a conversation with him in one of the 30 minute one on one meetings. You know, there’s a problem. This is not. This is not the way we I want this done or you’re not meeting expectations or whatever the heck it is from from the hours you keep to the attire to the to the smelly food you do in the kitchen. You know, whatever it is, you’ve got to tell people and give them a chance to improve. Absolutely. And it’s something that leaders really struggle with, right? There’s a lot of the times were promoted into leadership positions because of the good job that we did in our last position, not because we particularly have leadership skills or or those types of things. It’s a reward for doing a good job. And so that means that we get a lot of leaders who haven’t had any leadership training. I think the last study that I looked at, over 45% of current leaders and managers have had no leadership or management training at all. We treat it as if it’s a talent or a natural ability, where, as it’s a skill just like learning, excel or learning a new database, Um and so a lot of people are conflict avoidance. And so they have a hard time having those easy at the beginning conversations about you know, Hey, you’re wearing too much perfume and it’s given so and so a headache. You know, something silly like that. They don’t have that up front, and then it turns into like what you’re saying. They’re being blindsided in a formal evaluation instead of just having a quick conversation. So building those relationships and trust and respect on a weekly basis also helps the leader to be more comfortable to bring those things about with with their employees and with their team members. But it’s also something that has to be practiced, and it has to be rewarded in the workplace as well for our leaders to be assertive and thio Thio knit problems in the bud and have those open and frank conversations. If someone says they don’t have enough time to do 30 minute meetings with everyone that reports to them, does that mean they have too many direct reports? So I was just going to say I have one of two answers. Either you are overseeing too many people directly, Um, or you are You don’t have any time because your people are constantly interrupting you. So there’s, you know, to kind of pieces to that. So if you’re generally speaking, if you are overseeing more than 10 people directly meaning there is no level of, you know someone in between, there’s not another person. They can go to. A lot of the time CEOs think. Well, I oversee the entire company. No, no, no. Just your direct reports. Um, if you’re overseeing more than 10 then probably you’re not able to give them the time that they need to be a coach versus just being a manager, and that is going to hold back your employee engagement, which then holds back the success of your teams in the success of your organization. So that is one thing. But the other piece is people think that they don’t have time. Well, if you took intentional time with your team, you would see within a month. If you really committed to this, you would see a huge amount of time saved because you were dealing with it on the front end, versus being reactive. Okay. Okay, Cool. Um, how about some motivation, huh? You touched on little Bit’s talk about explicitly motive motivating the folks who work for you. Yeah. So each of your each of your employees is a unique human being there in the work that they do for unique reasons. So getting to know them in those weekly meetings and elsewhere to understand why the they do the work they do is gonna be incredibly helpful to you as a leader, because then you can tap that’s specific reason to help motivate them. But more generally, I think there are a couple of things that we can do to motivate and create an engaging work environment as well. I think one thing is encouraging friendships at work. So not being the boss that walks into the room and then everyone’s a she because you’re not supposed to be talking, um, so allowing that also creating opportunities for people tohave lunches together to get together off the clock toe, you know, feel like they can actually create, um, these relationships that help them to be more resilient in the workplace. And I think also one huge piece of motivation that I think is often missed is talking to people about their long term development. And I talk a lot about doing that through what I call stay interviews and not just me. Everybody calls him stay interviews, Um, but a stay interview is a play on an exit interview. We get all of this really robust, amazing information when people walk out the door. Well, why don’t we ask those questions once or twice a year or once 1/4 and get that really important information? While we still have the talent, Let’s keep the town. Let’s retain them so deeper into their development in their long term career planning. So asking questions like what is it that troubles you here. What would you do differently like that? Exactly? Yeah. Taking exactly those exit interview questions and turning them into stay interview. So why do you work here? What do you love most about your job? What would you change if you had a magic wand and have that authority to do? So? What are some benefits that would make a difference to you wanting to stick around in this job? You know, things like that. Okay, Uh, now on the friend you know, that sort of developing the friendship side. I’ve had people say that they resent some of that. Why did they have to be friends with co workers? They’re they’re happy to have them. His coworkers. Why do they have to take them on his friends? I you know, and I totally get that. And I hear that as well from folks. And here’s the reason why, as a manager or a leader, you should push this because through research and study specifically through Gallup, they have shown that those who have a best friend at work are significantly more engaged and therefore significantly more productive at work. And when you think about it just, you know, anecdotally. Of course, If I got to show up every day and work with my best friend, I’m probably gonna be more happy to be there more eager to show up. You know, a happier human being and knowing that I have someone that I trust that I convinced to all of those things having that resiliency within the workplace is is fantastic. Not everyone’s gonna do it. Not everyone is going to be that engaged employees. They’re gonna be that there are going to be the types that one o’clock and clock out, go home, not talk about their personal life. Keep a very compartmentalized life. But I will say is the generations go on. That’s less and less because people don’t see the clear delineation between their work-life in their home life. Especially with technology. Yeah, especially right. Right. That’s that has changed. So much of our work-life is interwoven. In-kind personal. Okay, um, any, uh, any, like, special or, uh, types of events that you like to see or something fun that maybe people haven’t thought of it. We could all go out for drinks. You know, maybe it’s a bowling night, right? pizza on Fridays. You got something something special beyond the humdrum stuff that I just named. Sure, I think what’s important is to actually give your employees ownership over this. So what I’ve done in some of my past work places is to create. And they called themselves the fund committee. Um, but to create that committee and actually allow the employees to decide what they want to do with that time and if you can throw a little budget at it Wonderful. But also again coming from non-profit. Ah, one of the places that I worked with. We just did not have the budget for that. You know, we’re very Grant restricted and and we weren’t gonna get that that fund money. So what we decided to do instead is we worked with our controller, and we all decided to deduct $2 each paycheck to go into a fund committee fund because we wanted to get to know each other better. We wanted to have teamed building on, and it’s completely optional. And it’s a knot of, you know, we don’t send out the list to say, Hey, so and so is not in the fun committee. Um but, you know, allow that and then allow them to decide what it looks like with your approval to make sure that you’re not having an HR nightmare or you’re not, You know, misusing funds or anything like that. But let them have ownership. Let them decide, Let them tell you. Okay, okay. To try to ah, tryto resuscitate myself or laser tag. Laser tag. Could you do that? That’s not humdrum. I lovely attack. Yeah, Yeah. Um uh, Anything else you want to say about motivation? You know, I I think what’s important And this is something that I think we’re actually relatively good at in the nonprofit world, but is important to come back to We have to come back to our mission and we have to come back to our why on a regular basis. It’s really easy when we air show stressed with multiple grants and funding streams. And what not to get caught up in the numbers and your team? What they hear when they just hear numbers, numbers, numbers is that you’ve lost touch with the client. You’ve lost touch with the families. You’ve lost touch with the communities that we serve. So making sure that you’re bringing yourself back, but also as a team that you’re spending time to really reflect on how you are serving your miss mission, which is most of the reason why. Probably your team works for you right now. Bring it back to the mission. Yes. Frequent, I think. Frequent visits to the mission. Yeah, certainly in terms of new programs or new ideas that are bubbling because this is going to be a collaborative, contributing team, and they’re gonna have ideas, you know? Do they? That may be a great idea, but does it work within what were charged to do? Okay. All right. So we’re talking about a lot about meetings. I’m guessing you have some tips on running effective meetings. Efficient, productive. Happy meetings. Yes. Okay, let’s start with something that’s old friends of mine or the technology. Like the technology rules for meetings our phones allowed. Do you need Oh, my gosh. We only have two minutes left. Okay, uh, let’s do justice to tech rules for meetings. Okay? So I actually, I’m a millennial, so I am guilty of having all of my technology in the room when I’m doing meetings, but at the end of the day, as I’ve worked with people from different generations and different values as well. It doesn’t even have to be a generational thing. Those who do not allow technology in the meeting room, they have been much more productive. And it pains me as a millennial to say that, but it is absolutely true. Leave your laptop back there, leave your phone in your office because you’re their toe work together. And everyone in your meeting should have a reason that they’re there. They should be someone who is contributing to the meeting. Otherwise, they shouldn’t be invited, Um, or made to sit through something. So put the phones away and focus on what you’ve got there and use that collaborative creativity. Okay, Um, now I’ve heard there could be an exception. You know, uh, my my pet is in surgery for my son is in surgery or my dad is in surgery. No. So that could be exceptions for those you know, those kinds of cases, right? I see that. But also that is a weekly, a slippery slope. So here’s what I say. Yes, there are always emergencies, but let someone know for the next hour, they need to call the front office. Then they need to call this phone line. And if there is an actual emergency, your receptionist, your office manager will come in and get you. But if you’re talking about in an emergency, then you pick up that phone every five seconds to check it, and you’re getting out of the flow of that collaboration, okay? And then there’s also the slippery slope, you know? Well, she had her son, but I don’t have children, but I have a cat cats in surgery. My cat is just like a child to me. Exactly. It’s not right. All right. Next to becomes a pet spider than the turtle, you know, gets ridiculous. All right, All right, Nikki. Henry, we gotta leave it there. All right? Thank you, Tony. My pleasure. She’s the founder and CEO of Ladies Leading Ladies. You’ll find her at ladies. Underscore leading underscore and the lady’s leading ladies dot com. It’s time to take a break. Yes, it is. Indeed. Uh, Wagner, C p A’s. They’ve got a free webinar on August 6th. Developing high impact grants. Improve your grants, research and writing. You’ll find it at Wagner cps dot com. Click Resource Is and upcoming events. If you miss it live, then watch the archive. Wagner cps dot com Quick Resource is and recorded events makes perfect sense. Did I mess something up here? Pardon me? Yeah, but, uh, but I didn’t do Wagner. I’m I I did already. No, I didn’t. I think you messed me up. I’m blaming it on Sam because I don’t have any interns. If I have an intern, I’ve blamed the answer we need in turns into show. So I have somebody to blame when there’s a screw up. Like right now, I don’t have one, but it’s certainly not my fault. It couldn’t be so. It’s just that that’s outside the realm of its Not it’s inconceivable, and I don’t mean inconceivable, like uh, like they using conceivable in the Princess Bride. I mean, it is inconceivable, so it must be Sam’s fault. Thea Other thing. The other sponsor that we need to talk about is Cougar Mountain software. Maintaining separate accounts for each fund Ain’t a ning daily expenses reporting to the board, these air or all challenges that you face. That’s why Cougar Mountain created Denali Fund It’s your complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. They have a 60 day free trial. You’ll find that at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two. I’m positive. Sam screwed me up here. I know he did. You left out a break. Okay, the, uh, 450th chauffeur non-profit radio. It’s next. Next week, For God’s sake, It’s July 26th. 2019 is coming up. What’s coming up on the two on the 450th show? Ninth anniversary. Been at this for nine years. 2010 giveaways. We’ve got your coffee giveaways, Of course. Kira is the coffee company that supports coffee growers and workers through providing dental care in the dental care like my voice was crackly. I’m 14. That’s how excited I get back your coffee. They provide dental care because the president of the company, the founder, is a dentist, but they provide dental care to coffee bead growers and workers. As you buy their coffee, you’re supporting that work that we’ve got giveaways from Cure a coffee. I’ll probably go away. Some books from the library, the non-profit Video Library where authors have given me multiple copies of books and What I’ve Got. Live music. Scott Stein, of course. Scott Stein from Brooklyn, who plays are, will play our theme song Complete Cheap Red Wine You Played Completely Through. And then, of course, we’ll count on him to play another song as well. And he’ll be here with this keyboard. Clear Myer. Half our creative producer is gonna be in town. Um, we got all the regular contributors calling in Aimee Semple Ward, Jean Takagi and, of course, Maria Semple. They’ll all call in. We’re welcoming new sponsors. You have heard a couple of shows with them already, but we’re going to formally welcome Cougar Mountain and turn to Communications as our new sponsor. So there’s a shitload going on. Um, and I can say that because my show what I could do, whatever the hell I want. You don’t like it? You’re not gonna stop listening. I mean, well, I mean, you could, but the odds of you doing it just cause I said shit one time so small, it’s it’s inconceivable. So there’s a shitload going on. Be with us for July 26 next week, the 450th show. There’s more on my video out. Could you imagine I could be any more to say on this topic, but watch the video anyway. The video is that tony martignetti dot com and I recorded it in my car. So Zwart watching for that reason since that makes. But let’s do the live listen to love. Ah, there’s a ton of it. Oh, yes, Sam the noisy eh commission. I think that Sam is really screwing up today. You forgot to turn the air conditioner off with my mike. Went live. Now you hear it. See how much quieter is now? That’s because there’s no air conditioning. You heard the buzz. You didn’t know what it was that you really all right. I’m not paying for this week’s show, All right? The live. Listen, love. Where the hell is it? We got listeners in. At least we had. We may have just left in the past three minutes, but we had a few minutes ago. Listeners in Rochester, New York, Tampa, Florida Irving, Texas Washington, D. C. Newburgh New broke New York. I love that straight up, right up the Hudson River. A little bit not upstate New Yorkers. New York City but I don’t live here anymore, so I don’t consider it upstate. Newberg. Welcome. Live love to you. Multiple New York, New York. Um, where else we got? Seoul, South Korea. Loved one soul checks in annual haserot comes a ham Nida Tokyo is with us very loyal. Also very loyal listeners in Tokyo Konnichi wa Beijing Beijing is with us equally loyal Ni hao to our Beijing listeners live love there. Moscow, Russia. That’s a pretty frequent Dublin Ireland. Not sure you’ve been with us before. Um, welcome. I’ve love to Ah, to Dublin. Um And there’s another sheet I left out a whole bunch of sheet coming back here. Alexandria, Virginia. We got listeners live love there, but then going abroad again. Oh, another South Korea yon yon gene or young in South Korea. Also on your haserot Too young Jean Athens, Greece. Welcome. I think that’s new. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Live love to you and Afghanistan. Herat, Afghanistan. I know. That’s first time. I’m so glad you’re with us. Afghanistan. Live love to you and the podcast Pleasantries. They got to go out because it’s over 13,000. You know eso whatever time zone you are, in whatever device you’re listening on pleasantries to you. I’m grateful that you’re with us. I’m grateful the show continues to grow. Uh, I can’t say Week after week grows every single week, but month after month year, the trending is up. So it’s all good. That’s that’s very positive. Pleasantries toe our podcast, listeners all right after that raving ranting. It’s ridiculous. I’m not. Whitney Raver should probably hung up. She was on the phone. If she’s still with us, she’s our next guest on, and I’m pleased to welcome her, Assuming she’s with me. She is the founder and chief development strategist at What’s the word? That’s a growth acceleration agency focused on amplifying non-profit impact. She teaches how to use stories to build trust and raving loyalty among donors. I’m starting to ratchet it down now. I have to have a conversation with Whitney, for God’s sake, get piela linked a woman she and the company are both at What’s the world inc dot com and at oh, what I said, No, that’s not it. It’s what’s the word? Inc dot com? Pardon me, What’s the word? Inc dot com and at what’s the word Inc Welcome to the show. Whitney River. Are you still there? I am here. Who could leave that performance? I can think of a lot of people. My mom for number one and my dad, but they don’t listen to begin with. So that turned them off years ago. Um, welcome. It’s good to have you. You are calling from the Black hills of South Dakota. That’s awesome. That’s way West. You got Mount Rushmore, Badlands National Park. That’s a beautiful part of our country. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I’m 20 minutes away from the most beautiful national mom in the world. And of course, I live smack dab in the middle of four. So I’m surrounded by the most beautiful hills in the world, I think, but at least you might be biased. Like, you know, New Yorkers think it’s the center of the world. But you deserve to think highly of the black hills. So, um what? So you have what are some of the monuments there that you have? So we have not rushmore. That’s about 20 minutes away from my house. We have, like, he said, Badlands. The Black Hills are a national monument, and then we have. My personal favorite is the crazy Horse Memorial has been works there and their longtime friends of his family, and it’s just up. They’re carving a giant mountain buy-in into, you know, putting over the Black Hills. And it’s just incredible to see they’re carving the carving crazy horse into the side of a mountain like Mount Rushmore into hyre Mountain. It’ll be, um, 3 60 It’ll be an entire mountain, not just one face of it. So Mount Rushmore will be will be minimal. Minimize is minimal compared to this 360 degrees. What kind of project? How long does that latto many years? Does that take? Oh, it’s you know, they’re expecting It’ll be done in about 60 years the last time I checked. Plus, they’re also very because they’ve gotten a few new drill and technology has come along. The founder cortex Socolovsky was carrying his jack up the mountain and doing it by hand. It may take 60 years. You cut out a little bit there, but 60 years, you’re incredibly patient in South Dakota, you have to finish that thing in like, 20 minutes. Here in New York, we just start trampling on it or somebody would steal it or Or graffiti it, Uh, maybe 1/2 an hour. Give it. But 60 years. Damn, you have. Um I have a lot of patients I also love. You know, you have that enormous space, South Dakota. And there’s about 800,000 people who live there. Brittney, did you turn me off? Oh, we didn’t turn you off. Okay, You have 100,000 people. I mean, we have We have 8,000,000 in a little island here. Uh, I don’t know what the dimensions are, but it’s got to be, like 1 10/1000 the size of South Dakota. And we have 8,000,000 8 and 1/2 about 9,000,000 or something like that. You have 800,000 in the whole freakin state. That’s incredible. It’s another person. Yeah. Yeah, well, you’re surrounded by a forest. All right. Um, okay, enough geography, but thank you. We never had having had a call from South Dakota. Our guest from South Dakota. So, um, so, uh, this topic of failures little personal for you because you ran for the for the South Dakota House of Representatives. As did it. It didn’t go so Well. Well, yes. No. And we can absolutely talk about way. Are we talking about it right now? What do you mean? We can We are. We’re doing it. Let’s start no more about it than I do so well in that I did not win. Um, I mean, ballots were cast, and I end up going to appear, which, you know, broke my heart. But I did my job. I served three and gave my neighbors a choice. Okay, but what I feel really right was, um, in speeches and to be going in and e-giving a perspective, an opportunity to think of things in a way that they have never Ben exposed to before had just results. And I tell you what, I got dozens of phone calls, and in the days and weeks after that election from people who just said, Gosh, I just wish I had voted for you. What? Why didn’t he? Hey, so if I do it again, it might be a whole new conversation. Okay, but what came out of that, uh, that, uh I had to say that failure, That that lack of success I don’t know. I mean, we could use the word failure. The cell, The second is about failure. Look what came out of that. Would you learn from that failure that informs your your, uh, don’t fear your failure practice really? That people have to be spoken to. You know, I feel like it was closer to my community that the constituents in this district actually trusted. Or after after I had failed and gone back into them and and, you know, um, we’re we’re still in this together. You can still count on me saying that I have had promised Call me email me. Here’s my social media and where no one really did before while I was right, I still get plenty tons of e mails and phone calls all the time. You know, we need a brave voice for this issue. Would you mind keeping us in this capacity? So even though I failed, I think that because I was so open with it and because I was so accepting of it, I really have done a lot more to earn the trust of my community, simply running an offering to take that position. Okay, Awesome. And, uh, we’re gonna go take our first break. And when we come back, that’s a perfect transition. Cause you want, um, you want non-profits toe earn The trust of folks are well, we’ll continue with that. After we take this very short break Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories and help you build support, media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. This is all of what turned to does. They’re at turn hyphen to DOT CEO. I’ve got butt loads, more time for the power of failure and Whitney River Whitney. So what is this trust That, uh, I mean, it’s I think it’s implicit buy-in non-profit relationships, but we want to talk about it explicitly, asking for trust and building trust. How do you feel that sharing your failures helps? Helps that I want nick down the importance of trust non-profits all over staying a decline in donorsearch ship and e-giving, and it’s really it’s their capacity for impact. And one of the reasons for that is because you were then 20% of potential donors trust organization, and there is a wide range of reasons for that. We as non-profits and as impact creators view the world is it could be has to do a better job of not just vacating our vision but bringing people in on that vision. And that requires a more three dimensional story, um, or hope, view of our And that includes sharing her, sharing our failures. Yeah, um, listeners, I know that Whitney is cutting out a little bit. It’s it’s something in the phone. But we’re pretty sure that if even if she calls back, it’s not gonna make a difference of Whitney. I may ask like I’m a repeat. Something that I I think you’ve said or I asked you to repeat something. Okay, because you’re cutting out a little bit. I think it may help, though, if you speak louder. Okay. Okay. Um, all right. So yeah. I mean, this is this is, uh, consistent with what we know about personal relationships, right? I mean, if to build trust with I don’t know, a spouse, a friend, you know, you you share and and just over time, I mean, you don’t want to share the good things that you share. What’s what’s happening in your life, and it’s not all good. And over time that the people you’re sharing with feel that they’ve been brought into your you brought them into your confidence. Great. You pick each other up and buy a shared your failures and kind of throwing your bungles out there. You give your community a chance, your hero. You tend to take it as a non-profit, the place of the hero in the grand story. And if you read Donald Miller Story brand, you know that Really, Um the odd wants to be the hero. And by sharing your failures and giving them a chance t and help you as part of you, you really give them the opportunity to the hero in that story. And that’s one of the ways you you gain trust and and buy-in. Okay, I’m not clear on something. Uh, making someone the hero of the story could flush that abila more sure to be sure to talk. So, as a nonprofit organization, you you tend to be the hero in the grand scheme of your vision. You are connecting and volunteers to your beneficiaries to serve your mission and the role of donor or volunteers can’t sometimes be inadequately highlighted. The people who stand on the sidelines wondering whether or not they should get of their time or their money are there. They’re looking for some reprieve and by giving them an opportunity to serve you first as xero. So to speak, in the story outline of communication, you give them the opportunity to feel like they’re really important to you and therefore to the mission. Okay, so making your donors and volunteers and Central Central to the story. Great. Okay. Okay. Um, have you seen this? Ah, have you seen examples of this? Any stories you can share that you think I’ve been done? Well, certainly. We’ll tell you about the startup that we’re working with right now. It’s high altitude training. And these these books have an incredible mission. It’s a group of elite long distance athletes who have together to show how sustainable living is the road, who meeting our highest human potential. And they they’re promoting sustainable living practices and agriculture and energy, and they’re using their competition to show to build a community around these ideas. Obviously, as an athlete, you can’t show up and take every time every time you raised rape. Yeah, So we have to make sure that our community and we’re building a wide, um, community of donor sponsors, volunteer participants. That community needs to be with us, and you stand that, You know, we may come in 10 but that is not any less important to our mission. We have to be able to show them how every every failure, every pore, placement, every station is an opportunity to refine our actions and refined and learn more about the lifestyle that we’re trying eat and how to become better at it on dhe. How do they do? They or generally are you recommending, you know, like coming out, right? Like asking for trust Or this is just something that you build implicitly. You know, Bo, what’s it? For the most part, I’ll go back to Tiu Thio, you know, shit. Like my marriage, for instance, my husband and I just celebrated 12 years, and, um, when we when we first started dating, I adamantly against marriage or any, you know, major commitment. Because I didn’t have that kind of trust. And I think a lot of people can relate to that over time. You, you you you work other, you fail together, you grow together and you realize that we’re We’re in this together. You’re important. I’m important. We have to come together to to serve the school. Did you? Yeah. It does make sense. Um, you start by by by sharing. You start by moving it. Build enough of a background you do You turn to them and ask them. Trust me. Don’t need volunteer. Give speak. But in order to make that request valid, you want to spend your time building that relationship and half of half of it is testing. The other half is failure. Yeah, well, it doesn’t have to be 50 50. I mean, you could we could be a little more optimistic. Make it like 60 40 right? Failure, success to failure. And let s oblique is just, like half, but, you know, out there in South Dakota, please, Ideally, it doesn’t come up very often, but when it does, you know you don’t want to You don’t be the ones behind behind the eight ball, you know you want you want to get well, for instance, you know, this is kind of a political topic, but the, um, fiasco in Florida with the Florida charity. Um, they were in a position to receive a station from a questionable fund raiser. Um, you know, as soon as it hit the public act out and there there were two ways to go about handled situation and positioning yourself in that situation. And when we when we come up against, um, situations like that very, You know, 1/3 party may not a lot or best interest in mind, but their actions may not align with our mission. Our vic gold. We take a stand, and instead of receding into the you want to stand up and explain, you know where you are in the story, how you responded, how your response reflect on mission in values and division so that that story isn’t written by someone else. What about selecting the right failures to talk about? I can envision some that you shouldn’t, but let’s let’s put aside the ones that are that are public, and then, you know you have to you have to share. But, uh, you know, there’s some things that you might be a might be a bad hyre or something. I mean, what what types of failures. Would we include or not? Include? Okay, So, like you said some just public And you know, if it’s if it’s going to take off in the media, you definitely want to get that. Yeah, of course. But others include white fun galas. Think things like that where maybe you don’t have the amount that you were hoping for. Yeah, you know, a lot of organizations. What they’ll do is they’ll take their attendees and squeeze them into a little ball and take a picture to make it look like they’re 100. And they’ll put that story out and, you know, talk about the great turn and everything that was accomplished. But we still need you to donate really hard on trust. The messaging doesn’t align. Whether or not your audience really puts the time into unraveling that they know they know that there’s something off and that hurts their trust. What would How would you message it instead? Um, I would mess. It’s typically about like, uh, on event. I was humorously like, Wow, we really bumbled that one. We scheduled this during this other events. Too bad we’re not that popular, you know. But since that we need you guys to show up in this capacity instead. Okay? And you feel like this is something, by the way, we just have about two minutes left. You feel like this is a way, a way to move forward in 2019 and ahead. You see this as an important future trend or current trend and just increasing Absolutely Whether or not, um, the Internet and having you know, all of the station of ages in the pub wolber hand has forced us to be transparent as a non-profit. You are complete both. So you might as well work with that to build a station ship run with it. There are great organizations like charity. My gosh, I’m so gaga over charity water. I’ve never seen such such bold. And I mean almost surreal transparency. And that’s that’s the standard that donors want and need to see any. Yeah. Um, yeah, there’s a video I remember seeing charity water scum. Scott Harrison. The CEO is standing in front of a well that failed in. They do their work in Africa. I don’t remember what countries in but the well collapsed and he said, We’ll be back. We’ll be back And I’m sure I’m sure he sure they did go back. Um Okay. Whitney River. We’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. You’re welcome. It’s a founder and chief development strategist at what’s the word? What’s the word? Inc dot com and at what’s the word Inc. Next week you heard all about it. It’s the 4 50 If if you don’t. If you don’t remember what next week’s show was about, you need to tune out. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com actually already turned out. If you don’t, if you don’t know what the 4 50 it is, you’re already out. Responsive by Wagner, c. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Witnessed gps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producers Claire Meyer off. She’ll be in the studio next week. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer is screwed up today. Social shows, Social media is by Susan Chavez. 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